BeStrongBeHappy

yeah, you broke it off with him, but it is kind of crass to be picking up women right in front of you, maybe he was going for a bit of payback there... anyway, switch yoga classes, go into NC with him, show him you are soooooo over him... really, if i treated a guy with respect and broke up with him and was trying to be pleasant friends with him and he responded this way, then it would just make it even easier to walk away from him, because he is disrespecting you... besides if you walk away now, you had the last word, and it was a doozy!!

breakups are never easy, but it sounds like your relationship was kind of fizzling out towards the end... the good news is you didn't have any big dramatic fights, but the bad news is when things fizzle out slowy, one is never sure exactly where you stand. she called you when upset and depressed, so probably thinks of you as a friend and wanted some support... but it is really hard to change gears straight from a relaltionship into a friendship, because there are always misunderstanding when you connect, i.e., is the person just being friendly, or is it an overture to a reconciliation? i don't think you messed up, because NC is for your own benefit, to help you heal, and it is just a little setback for you, happens to everyone. but if she doesn't respond back or show any more signs of wanting to be close to you, it might be better to go back to NC so you don't get your hopes up...

you know, i had a standard joke i tell when people talk about a divorce or breakup and wonder if they'll ever find another person or the breakup means they're not suited for marriage or whatever... i always say, 'i really liked being married, i just didn't like being married to HIM!'... LOL!! by that i mean, you probably really like being in a relationship, having someone to spend time with, do things with and for, etc. and are really missing being in a relationship right now. but the problem is, this particular guy will NOT give you all the good things that relationships have to offer, just seems to be upsetting you and doing/saying things that make you feel worse... i mean really, his walking away from a phone call while you're still talking says it all... he doesn't really care about what your saying or feeling, he just wants to check in and out of the relationship whenever it suits his own purposes... so you keep wanting to use your phone to dial back into a sense of security a relationship brings, but unfortunately, the only person answering is your ex, who ignores you or says nasty things, or uses you to be his mommy and take care of his problems! so DEFINITELY a wrong number, though the desire to have a relationship and be close to someone is fully understandable and a good thing, but this guy is a dry well when it comes to that. so when you get that feeling, translate it to its true source... you are missing a relationship, but your head is warning you that you are dialing the WRONG number, which is the right answer... relationships can be great, but not with the wrong person, so continuing to call is just prolonging you from getting into another relationship with someone who does meet your needs. so dial your phone, but dial people who care about you, or use it to make plans to go out and have fun with friends where you might meet someone who is good for you and would love being in a relationship with you... or if you REALLY get the urge to dial your ex, go over and read GoingForIt's thread and tell him you think his own relationship might be over, and he'll dump a huge load of rage on you and call you names... that should TOTALLY cure you of wanting to dial your own ex... LOL!!! There are lots of men out there who *pretend* they love you, or TELL you they are loving and respecting you, but really, they don't know how, so better to find someone who does know how to love without draining you dry emotionally, and better to spend a bit of time finding a good guy who knows how to have a good relationship rather than just keep dialing a lost cause... best of luck, i love all your posts, you are so nice and kind, you deserve a break and someone who really loves you!

The 4 or 5 women that keep coming back on my thread and let out their own frustrations from their own failed relationships need to realize that I am NOT your ex and I am NOT your punching bags. ummm... wow, dude.... you have repeatedly asked for advice, and people are kindly taking their time to try to answer your questions with their opinion to help you get over a breakup... then if they say something you don't want to hear, like it looks like your relationship may be over based on what is going on, just their OPINION, you respond with something verbally abusive and call them bitter women or whatever... i'm really seeing why your ex is not contacting you, if this is how things went between you and her... but no problemo, i'm outta this thread...

Please don't go to her work to drop anything off... remember what happened last time you 'stopped by' her work unannounced? she was very upset and her boss had to ask you to leave. nobody needs another scene like that. People who show up at someone's place of business unannounced and uninvited are seen as stalkers when the relationship is over and the people are barely on speaking terms. If you do this it will NOT show your respect for her, it will just show that you are determined to do things the way you want to, and are pushing yourself back into her world uninvited. It doesn't matter what your excuse for showing up at her work is, because there is no excuse for going to her work unless she invites you there. Just put her stuff in the back of a closet somewhere, and if she wants it enough, she will eventually email about it. If you don't hear from her in a month, then UPS it to her address, or her parents place, with a request she do the same with your stuff. And if she does email back, take the first time she offers, and do the exchange, and if its at a time you can't make, have one of your friends do the exchange. it's pretty clear that this is going to degenerate into a potentially disrespectful exchange if more tension over this builds up, so better to just get it over with quickly, and forget about it and move on with your life... at this point, it isn't about who's 'in charge' or has one up in the relationship, because the relationship is over... haggling back and forth over dates and places to exchange her stuff won't make her want to come back... she may have already given up on getting the stuff, if she proposed several times and you kept turning her down... she may feel you are just trying to jerk her around over getting the stuff, another control game, so why bother... i'm sorry, but everything you are writing points to the fact that this relationship is over, where a simple exchange of stuff has been elevated to a really big deal where you two can't even civilly schedule a time together to exchange things... so it is best to quit putting all your emotional energies into thinking about this and her, and continue with your own healing so you can find someone else who does want to be with you.

sounds like there are unresolved issues with his family... no mother should every say it is his girlfriend vs. his mother, totally weird, and shows the problems he is dealing with regarding his mother... well, if you love him, and his history is depression and family problems, i would always say try to get him into therapy with you, to help heal him to be able to have a healthy relationship with you... but if he won't do that, then you can't cure depression or his family problems, that is up to him to do, not you.

don't let him use you as the 'bridge' between his own loneliness and waiting it out for his 'real' true love, his ex girlfriend... otherwise he is just using you, and waiting and hoping she will take him back, comparing you UNFAVORABLY to his own ideal and refusal to accept reality... tell him to call you when he is REALLY free, and wants someone he doesn't consider some pale comparison or shadow of his ex...

btw, i was in an organization going totally crazy over changes, layoffs, restructuring etc... they finally told me they would never lay me off and i would not get the sweet package that so many other slackers were getting, yet at the same time, didn't care if good workers were stressed and overloaded, and bad workers got a sweet package and were laid off... evaluate what the reality is there, and make your choices accordingly.. you could wait a long time for nothing, or maybe negotiate something to your advantage.. but don't just accept the status quo and hope for the best... corporatioins can be ruthless, and surprise anyone with their callousness to the most loyal workers.

hey, you aren't ranting, i do understand... am highly educated, committed, dedicated, etc., but depending on the organization you are in, that is NOT what they consider important... some workplaces are so messed up, they are totally toxic, especially for people who care... don't burn yourself out if the higher management doesn't care... it is a truism that organizations take on the characteristics of their leadership... does the leadership there have values or priorites or goals that you believe in? if not, you are wasting your time... if you are not pregnant yet, then no reason not to look for another job... and consider all offers in terms of their benefits and consideration for supporting a woman who *might* get/be pregnant in the future... most companies now can't discriminate against you because you are a young *potentially* pregnant woman... the only reason you might have to disclose is if you are already pregnant and might need lots of time off soon after you are hired... please spend time interviewing to find an organization that dovetails with your own beliefs and efforts... no one ever regretted commitment and controversy at a place one respects, but beating your head against a wall in a place that doesn't even 'get it' is not worth the stress, or your commitment.

hey, wow, why are you using so many other people's standards about who you are and what you should be to be worthwhile? basically, life is not about that, who gives a crap about anyone else defining what is 'right'? you are living in Calif., the land of the shallow and the lost, so if you think you don't fit in, then maybe you really are fabulous, and they are really whacked! (sorry, don't mean to put all of Calif. down, but there is a weird value system there, money, beauty,snobbery=good, anything less=bad.) widen your mind and your circle, look to those who lived their lives meaningfully and beautifully amongst despair and inequality etc., like Gandhi, Mother Teresa, ANYONE but those who measure their life's worth only in terms of drugs or money or popularity... Kurt Cobain might have made it if he surrounded himself with people who are true lights in their world, rather than users... please, don't write yourself off until you have experienced the WHOLE world, and other values than the shallow one you live in now...

hey, i know this is heartbreaking for you, but it sounds like he is trying to be very honest with you, and soulsearching himself before making a hollow commitment to something he is not sure of... if you are a very devoted christian, and he is not sure that is the way it is going for him, then maybe he is afraid he WILL disappoint you because he does not have the same faith and value system you do... i would suggest that you both take a little step back, and decide what is really important to you... and keep the lines of communication open between you without too much expectation on either person's part until you figure this out... best of luck, it is good that he is being honest with you, and not just going along with the 'program' and bailing out when you have made a commitment and have children and a divorce to deal with... it sounds like the two of you need more talks, and maybe there is still hope, but obviously, you both need to deal with the differences between you, and decide what is most important for each as individuals, and as a couple.

if someone is telling you directly, and very explicitly, that they don't want to talk to you, then it may be heartbreaking, but you need to respect that... there could be all kinds of reasons for him saying this, but really, he is totally snubbing you, and by continuing to call him, he might just think you are a stalker who does not respect his wishes... some people handle breakups with grace and respect, and some people just want any connection to go away immediately because of their own reasons, guilt, regret, having someone new, not wanting to deal with it, etc. but the end result is the same, he is telling you to go away and he does not want to continue, so please accept this and go into no contact to heal yourself... continued contact will only involve more rejection and hurt, so please move on, and heal yourself and find someone who does want to talk to you.

well, in today's world, a practical consideration is always the issue of paternity... say your husband is free to have sex with anyone he wants, and fathers a child... do you want $600-$2000 or whatever going to another woman from his paycheck every month because he has fathered a child elsewhere? paternity is very easy to prove these days with genetic testing... and most women do NOT separate sex and love too clearly, so someone sleeping with your husband might decide they want to steal him permanently as a partner... and someone you are sleeping with, the more people you are a sleeping with, can give you an incurable and life threatening STD... so it is always tradeoffs, and monogamy does have its advantages for lots of reasons... i honestly feel if a person doesn't have it in themselves to commit to that, then don't marry, and acknowledge that life may be full of an endless series of short term partnerships, and more risk of diseases, and diminishing income due to supporting children with multiple women, and less time between parents and children because they are hopping around trying to do adequate visitation...

well. the other woman does sound very narcisssitic, to be so upset when you didn't even sleep with her... she is probably being manipulative too, trying to scare you into giving her what she wants... the only reason you wife needs to know is if you think that this woman would carry out a threat and lie to your wife and say you did actually have an affair... how good is your relationship with your wife? would she believe you if you told her that nothing sexually actually occurred, or would she believe the other woman? that is a risk you have to take, and if you genuinely did not sleep with that woman, if push came to shove, you could tell her the truth, and agree to take a lie detector test to prove it! but the problem is, you did play with fire, so might definitely consider counseling with your wife if this woman does 'out' your flirtation with her, to prove your own commitment to your wife, and regret that you were indiscreet in flirting with her...

oh dear, you are setting yourself up for more and more pain... this man may be getting a huge kick out of having his cake and eating it too, and you may be nothing more to him than sexual variety... and he is violating the trust of his own girlfriend, and USING you... your life is not or will not be empty, you have just succumbed to the excitement of an affair with an unavailable man... why are you content to be spice on the side, while she gets first dibs, respect etc., and you get leftovers? STOP, Stop, stop!! you say you are in love with him, but what is equally important is: Is he in love with you, or just USING you? you need to have this discussion with him before you waste more of your life with someone who may only be having a lark, a fling, and has no intention of really including you in his life and treating you with respect. physical attraction and the thrill of clandestine involvement can frequently be confused with something deeper. this man is a cheater, and a FLAGRANT cheater to boot... unless he is willing to break up with his girlfriend RIGHT NOW, you are probably feeding false hopes, and thinking he is your true love, when he is just another cheating rat, happy to have found a woman who will cheat with him and not require anything else, like a free hooker... sorry, but the world is full of users like that...

it may last... until she decides she is only 33 and doesn't want to settle into retirement with Grandpa! honestly, please be cautious... i know someone who married someone 25 years younger when he was in his early 40s, and they stayed together for 22 years, but just when he was wanting to retire and spend time at home with her, she started an affair with a man her own age, and took him for alimony and half his assets and pensions, though she never worked at all during their marriage... lots of young girls are attracted to much older men because of their ASSETS and ability to support them in a higher style than young men can, but when the situation is reversed, and it looks like the woman has to start taking care of him in his old age, she bails and runs off with his money AND a younger man... best of luck, but protect your assets since you don't want to be impoverished and alone in your old age...

i think 10 years is not an insurmountable difference, but you are at different life stages, unless you are extremely mature, and he is immature for his age... he has been out of his teens for almost ten years, and i presume living on his own etc., whereas you have not really had lots of experiences that people go through at your age, school, college, dating lots of people to find out what it means to be in a relationship... you might try out a period of being friends before jumping into a relationship, and talk up front about how dating might not be a good idea until you see whether this is just an attraction, or both of you have something that might develop into someone more... sometimes those attractions are sincere and can develop into a lifetime commitment, and other times it is an older guy surfing for a naive girl to take advantage of... so at a minimum you should be friends for quite a while before date to see what he is about, and take other people's considerations/advice into account (like your mother's)...

well, a crush does not a relationship make! a crush is a fantasy relationship in your head, where you find someone really attractive for whatever reason, but you are not actually in a relationship with that person... so crushes are frequently driven by other needs, like loneliness, or unresolved issues from your childhood etc. where you didn't get enough love or attention from a parent, and are now projecting that onto an older person you find attractive.. if you do not have a really close personal relationship with someone, it doesn't make sense to be really jealous, since you don't 'own' that person... so i would try a little reality therapy on yourself... what do you really hope to get from this person, and it doesn't sound possible, like he is being friendly with people and you are taking an attraction way too seriously... if you spend time trying to cultivate relationships with people your own age, you might spend less time dreaming about someone who is more a fantasy than a reality...

Please educate yourself about HPV, information is available readily online... it is actually the genital wart virus and there are many different strains, some that have more potential to cause uterine cancer later in life for some women. HPV can indeed go 'dormant', but always the potential to be active, and there are treatments to eliminate it via treatments in the Dr.'s office to freeze/burn or surgical procedures, like one gets rid of warts on other parts of the body... but one should use condoms until a Dr. gives a clean bill of health, since it is very hard to eradicate, and definitely if you intend to have sex with other women you might transmit it to... you actually may already be infected yourself, since lots of men are, but don't get the symptoms that women do unless they discover a visible wart on themselves... also, a large percentage of the population is already infected with it by their early 20s and don't necessarily have obvious symptoms (anywhere from 30-75% depending on the statistics you read), so it is not guaranteed to cause cancer in everyone who gets it, but does increase the risk, especially for certain strains of the virus, which they can test for... you can protect yourself with condoms, and especially need to use them if you ever intend to have sex with other women whom you might infect... if she has an active case, then best to be cautious so you don't catch it... there is a vaccine out now that women can use to prevent getting it, but once you have it, the vaccine is not effective. lots of people have very rough childhoods and grow up to be empathetic and wonderful people because they have suffered greatly and would not wish anyone else to suffer as they have... i applaud her for being honest with you about her situation, and take your time to get to know her and see if you relationship can grow. there is also a *very* small chance that she could be making up stories for sympathy/attention, but the odds of that are very very small, and you can tell more as you get to know her over time... if this is a full disclosure situation and she doesn't continue to have even grander tales of woe, then you can assume you have met a wonderful person who has survived a lot, and has the potential to be a great partner. but if the stories keep growing and changing, please be careful, because there are some people who are pathological liars who will tell tall tales to elicit sympathy... (i have met one such person, which is why i am cautious, but chronic liars can't resist the temptation to lie about everything, so you can learn that if the stories don't line up or get bigger as time goes on)...

Most relaxed and satisfied women have at least one! they are a good way to have a quick orgasm when your man is not around, or for both of you to use together for a bit of fun. some women also have a hard time having an orgasm just from regular sex, it's an anatomy thing, not a preference... men should never be threatened by them, because there is no substitute for the real thing! even women who have to use a vibrator to have an orgasm still want real sex, then finish off with the vibrator.. if a woman prefers a vibrator to a man, it usually means the woman has some issues with the man or men (i.e., is turned off emotionally by him, or has relationship problems)...

i think sadk is really right and giving you some good advice... the terrible thing about breakups is that one person can be thinking and hoping and trying to interpret the action of the other partner who left, when that other partner who left is really spending very little time thinking about their ex at all because they have already mentally separated long before the breakup, and are moving on with their lives. when a relationship is deteriorating, the two people are almost never on exactly the same page emotionally, one person is always further along on the uncoupling path than the other, and that person is the one who initiates the breakup as a rule... so it is probably better for YOU to not try to read anything to such limited contact with her, or to try to guess what she is thinking, especially if she really has moved on, then you are just harming yourself by being so invested emotionally in someone who has moved on... and if she wants to come back or re establish a friendship, she knows where you are and can contact you. so i wouldn't read too much into the 36 hours without responding, maybe she is busy, or has other things she's been doing the last couple days... when they've broken up with someone, they just don't put responding to contact with their ex on the same high priority (quick response) as they did when they were a couple... it is not uncommon for friends or acquaintances to go 36 hours or even days before replying back to email if they're busy or have other plans they're trying to schedule around..

hey, a radical thought... why don't you box her stuff up, and UPS it too her, and send her a request she do the same... if even a simple meeting to exchange your stuff is turning into this big deal and upsetting you so much, maybe it is better to just take care of it quickly and without drama (on either part), and continue your own healing? it just seems to be heaping such misery on you, maybe it is better to just resolve it quickly without have to have grand negotiations just about trading stuff...

actually if she is not officially divorced yet, your moving in before the divorce could actually influence how the judge views child support and custody issues... until one is fully divorced, the charge of adultery can be made and used to affect financial and custody issues, even if you only started dating after the separation. most lawyers will tell you not to date at all til the divorce is final, and definitely not live together for this reason... so it might be in her best interest to not live with you until after they resolve all issues and the judge settles the divorce. regarding the financial issues, legally, if her ex can get her to agree to the reduced child support in writing, the judge can validate that and agree to it... but it is not usual to order someone to make a car payment, other than to award X dollars in transition support, for X period of time... i.e., the judge could agree to $500/mo child support, and $250 a month for 3 years, without specifying it is for a car payment... but look at it this way, if she agrees to $500 child support, that's $1200 less per year, maybe only $15K less total by the time the child hits 18... so if her husband agrees to pay off her car, does it amount to that $15K or even close to it?? and $100/mo. less over 3 years (before she can reapply) is $3600 less for those 3 yeras, but if he's paying $250/mo for 3 years, that's means she's $9000 AHEAD after 3 years... so neither your ex nor her husband appears to be doing anything that really amounts to financially cheating the other person, and really, if they can come to a pleasant agreement either way, it is not so bad... and they seem to have a far more amicable divorce than most, and starting a big fight over this amount of money might not be worth it in the long run if it turns nasty and expensive lawyers have to be hired...

i think people didn't respond to your post-breakup driveby spying because so many people do it when they first break up, or suspect someone of cheating... it's common for people to do that because of the drive to resolve a 'gut' feeling, which really is a gnawing feeling of unease because your head is perceiving things that don't quite line up, but your heart is still hoping that maybe it is not true, but your head tells you 'go find out so we can stop thinking about this...' so a desire to try to 'get to the bottom of things' is a person's way of trying to deal with uncertainty, and wanting closure and resolution to a nagging suspicion, which is an unpleasant sensation at best... but you have to realize (and most people do) that you have already broken up with him because you have pretty good indications (his changed behavior) that he is trying to hide your relationship from someone else, rather than hide someone else from you!! it sounds like he is dating someone else, probably in his own neighborhood... and maybe even someone you know! so don't distrust your intuition, because it is usually telling you something... even people who trust their gut feelings are totally suprized at how right their feelings were, or else how BAD their partner was being, worse than they even suspected... some people will even lie to their new prospective date, claiming they have already broken up with their old girlfriend, or they're not dating exclusively so are free to date, etc. etc. to get the new person on the hook, then when they are dating the new person and decide they want their old partner out of the picture, they provoke a fight or whatever with the old person to force the breakup to be the other person's decision... so if he is laughing at you, how cruel, and if he's a liar EVEN WORSE... so best to accept your breakup, and then you will feel less desire to spy on him... some people willl NEVER give you the truth and the full closure you need, short of a private detective, so recognize that you are suffering anxiety because of that 'need to know' and a natural desire for closure and peace of mind... i'd start asking around people you know (or you and your boyfriend both knew), to see if any of them know if he is dating, and if so, for how long, just to try to get your own closure... but keep the spying and drive bys to a minimum, so he doesn't tell people you're a stalker and the reason he had to break up and get that new girlfriend!

you say this about her: 'This other woman is a very kind-hearted girl that could have her heart hurt very easily.' really, even if you perceive her as 'kind-hearted' she is really being VERY selfish going after you... some people are very self centered or spoiled, and used to having what they want and not taking no for an answer, or even thinking about the effects of their behavior on other people... she may be intellectually smart, but sounds very narcissistic, or emotionally immature to chase a married man with a pregnant wife... really that is either totally cruel, or she is very UN-self aware when it comes to examining her own behavior... this is such a loaded situation for you, and many people have strange moments when they're confronting the reality of changing their own life with a child and family committments, so maybe some of your interest here is avoiding your own feelings of fear or being trapped when you are faced with a life changing event... please cut off contact with her, tell her you have a child to think about now... i am sure as soon as your baby is born, you will have new feelings of bonding with your wife and child as a family... don't let a selfish temptress ruin that for you before you even get a chance to experience it... this other woman may be smart, but smart has nothing to do with kindness and recognizing that a baby deserves a father at home, more than she deserves another lover...