itsallgrand

Hey rutger First of all, I wholeheartedly agree with the advice to join the gym and start working out regularly. You simply can not lose by doing that. I'm a woman who was in your situation at 21. Then one day I got sick of it. I started looking for a new job. I took classes to improve so that I could do what I wanted. I used to be shy. I joined a gym and learned basic bodybuilding: It totally changed my life for the better in so many ways. Listen hun, Your apartment already is burned to the ground and you already lost your job. You aren't actually there. Not your heart and soul: it's dead and dying. It's a very serious business, your life. Yes, rent needs to be paid... but that is friggin' easy when you don't feel like you want to curl up and not deal with the world. When life doesn't seem to suck so much, you find a way, No Big Deal. You know you need a change. What is stopping you - honestly?

Those who choose to stay in abusive relationships are Themselves Being Abusive. Now, I know a lot of people are gonna say 'no, no, no'. But you'd be wrong. By feeding and allowing an abusive person to carry on - you further abuse that person. You tell them with your actions "You are awful and can only hurt people. You do not deserve the respect of being loved and being acknowledged for your real self and actions". I get real, real upset at the level of non-compassion for those who outwardly abuse - by yelling, screaming, hitting, being mean with words. You know what sort of abuse is equally hurtful; and oftentimes much more so? Neglect. Not acknowledging a human being. Not being there. A child who grows up to abuse is more deeply affected by the invalidation and neglect to them as a person than the actual hitting and mean words. At least that is something! You're almost grateful bc at least someone is paying attention and letting you know you exist! YOU ARE MUCH MORE THAN WHO YOU CURRENTLY BELIEVE YOURSELF TO BE. YOU CAN CHANGE. YOU CAN WORK PAST THIS PAIN AND BE WHO YOU'VE ALWAYS SECRETLY KNOWN YOU ARE UNDERNEATH ALL THE PAIN: SOMEONE UNIQUE SPECIAL LOVING AND VALUABLE. I have been abused in my life. Very badly. I became an abuser. I'm still not done my work......but I do not hit or go into frenzies anymore. It simply is not an option. I am currently ended a round of therapy for certain traumatic events in my life: I witnessed a lot of death and mindless hate/destruction. I am definetly now going to turn to find a proper good therapist to deal with the specific issue of you're talking about here: how that level of conception of oneself, the level of hatred inside and pain and anger that blinds our consciousness to Love..... I'm talking a lot here... Keep going. Get the therapy. There is Hope! You are more than your behavior and your feelings and pain. You are much much more. My full support is with you to getting well and learning how to love yourself again. That is what this really is about, my friend.

It's not wrong to feel the way you, so long as you haven't acted on it. I agree that ..hey, you are human,...we don't stop feeling attraction to other people just because we're in a relationship. I agree to evaluating your relationship with your hubby. You said "I guess I like the attention" from this guy at work. Are you feeling like you are not getting enough attention from your hub? Are you not getting what you need? Are you unhappy? Is there a lot of stress at home? Good luck on figuring this out. Congrats on catching yourself before the attraction gets out of hand. Check out this forum for stories of ....AFTER people have gone through with these feelings of attraction......it very very rarely works out well.

I believe there is a thread here about 'Dating down the Ladder'. You should check it out; it's good. This guy is clearly 'below' you socially financially and otherwise. Not saying he is a bad person; but he is a troubled soul, and you know this. Ever wonder why you would want to be with someone who can not give equally? Ever wonder how that reflects on your insides? The tighter you try to hold on, the more he will panic and feel the need to escape from you. He'll run; I get the feeling you already know this instinctively from spending so much time caring for him. Letting him go....see what happens. You are being defensive in response to some of the other posters. The truth is; their advice could literally save your life. If you have been sleeping with this man; please go to your local clinic and get tested for STDs. Please be sure to use condoms, and watch out a little for your self and your body. b.r.

At 15 and 13 I am extremely surprised they still have a nanny. Five years is a long time. Perhaps you might start looking for new employment. You can't do much more there, except linger. Those are just my thoughts. They aren't kids anymore.

I'm sorry I can't help, but I've very much interested in bumping your thread so you can get a reply. It sounds like you are me a year from now or whenever I figure my life out. I just ended a 5 yr relationship: and it's dawning on me that I need to take care of me. Just live my life etc. I wonder if you are truly are attracting insecure guys or if you're just learning for the first time how much work a 'real' relationship is? Dunno, But I hope this works out for you. I really do.

I like that. I'm starting to realize that..slowly. For instance today. I appreciate your kindness.

phew thank you! I'm feeling okay today. Emotional: but it felt like the right thing to do. for once. yes, i'm thinking maybe my bad behavior hit a little close to home for tod. It was actually good to hear that - my ex would never say such a thing to me. Very, very rare. Needed to hear it, and I hope it sheds some light so that susser tod can find some resolution with his own gf. Keep in mind to that I have been dealing with mental illness. Yeah, i've been a jerk...but only since i've been not well. anyways, thanks for all the help. I do realise i have a lot to work through, including the anger and *i can be mean*

Errr...thanks?

Well, it's been a weird night. I posted that, and then, I phoned him. Ok, first I cried and rehearsed what the hell i would say. I guess I had to know the truth. As soon as I had said hello and asked if we could talk for a few minutes, he burst with talking. I had to know if he did the 'samantha' thing as an act of maliciousness or if bc of the 'break' and all the things i had run him through, he had given up and just moved on without me. This relationship is sooo dead. We should have buried this corpse a long time ago. Yeah, he actually apologized to me. First he asked and then listened to my account of 'samantha'. Somehow i am convinced that he didn't know how much i was holding on to the idea of the two of us being together. When he told me his side, it was logical and i believed him. Still, I basically said to his apology 'thanks. that means a lot. I had already decided to forgive you. That's why I called. To square things up and so both of us can walk away without resentment or hard feelings. And if you truly like this person you are seeing, you owe it to yourself to walk into it fresh. I got worried that you were entering something from running away: and you deserve more than that' To which he was all shocked and blubbery 'thank you. you don't know how much that means to me. After all this....and you're still caring about my wellbeing...and...' I said, well yes, like i said i decided to forgive you. Him "so, can we be friends?" Me "I don't think that would be good for either of us right now" Him "okay." Me"So, Have a wonderful night. Good bye" Him "Just one more thing...if i can..." Me "Sure. What is it?" Him "I just want you to know if you ever need anything, ever, anything at all, support, I always have cared for you and I always will, so just call, I'll be here" Me "Ok. Thank you. " "ok" bye bye I'm feeling ..........Not Angry!!! Yeaaaaa!! yuppers. I must move on. I think I needed to do that. It was profoundly sad, but like going to a funeral ...y'know, where the wracking sobs have not begun yet and you're just walking away and it starts to .... that it's dead. Now I can begin to mourn, and move on. thanks

Hell yeah, we're cool. Thank you so much for replying. So...perhaps more therapy for me? I'm thinking that might be what has to happen. Reading my own words: I am starting to scare myself. I sound a little bit crazy. Is it possible that he could ever recover from this and we could be friends? Ahk, I guess I'll figure that out when the time comes. I only ask bc it is starting to dawn on me how badly I've treated him. As odd as this sounds, I almost feel like I should be doing something nice for him! Already I feel like, in my heart, this is almost a blessing, or ending now. Should I simply leave it...as it stands?

Sort of long post, but i'm ready to get some of this out. I know I am a proud woman. It has caused problems for me. Like right now. I knew my ex for 5 yrs. We have been through a lot with each other. I feel like I know him as a person and he knows me. We had been exclusive for a few years. I never knew the exact date: because we had been friends the entire time. We were friends while we were with other people. As far as I've known, he'd been truthful. We slept together and dated and even lived as roomates for a time. Our policy had always been honesty. It worked. We fell in love and gave it a good chance. He travels for work for chunks of time. There were times it was hard. I missed him fiercely, yet it seemed reciprical. We dealt with it. His actions told me he wanted to be with me and I trusted him. Certain circumstances in my life in the last 6 months had brought me down big time. In all honesty; I was a mess and no fun to be with. He stuck it through well. Yes, I know he put up with a lot of * * * * lately. It finally came to a head. We were experimenting with the thought of moving in together and making a home. I screwed up and didn't show up. In one month of 'trial'; I was there for two nights. I started pulling my old stunts of not calling or leaving right away in the morning. It was horrible, and must have made him feel like * * * *. I was miserable and : Here's the pride, Didn't want him to see me like that. So I bailed. He cared enough or was worried or pissed off enough that he confronted me. I never did apologize properly, but he said he was going to tough it through with me. I told him that was what I wanted. I didn't want him to have to deal with my all my issues, but I put him in an even * * * *tier position with that move. I mean, I didn't even make the effort to do something grand for him to thank him or make it up to him. I was very self involved. But I love him. And I guess I sort of took for granted that he would be there waiting for me, to support me. Because he had seen it all before; and worse. To explain a little better, I was being treated for PTSD. It really wasn't going so well, and my life was pretty much in the gutter. I was just scraping by and he was one of the huge rays of sunshine in my life. We were together for a few months in strained conditions. We saw each other not so often, but stayed in constant contact and I started really trying to show him how much I appreciate him. Some of the feelings he had been holding back for my sake started surfacing, and it was intense. I didn't know how to deal with it all: he needed my support and I felt weak. I did what I could but I could tell it wasn't enough. It came time for him to be leaving for a month for work, and I asked for a break of no-contact. I felt like I needed it to just work on me and not worry about anyone else. He seemed not impressed, but he agreed. I told him how much I loved him and how I still wanted it to work, and that the break was not from being exclusive to each other. He agreed. I can see how stupid that was now, and how selfish and insensitive. I was a real biotch and I couldn't even see it. Yet at the time, I just went about my business and during that month he wsa gone there wsa no contact,like we agreed. I had this horrible feeling in my stomach midway. That's when I saw on my messenger his name displaying how *samantha*makes him feel wonderful...there was more to it than that; he was opening displaying his affection for another woman where i could see. I was furious. When he came home, he called me,and tried to act all normal, and I asked him all those things. He was seeing another woman and had feelings for her.Supposedly he didn't sleep with her , which almost hurts worse, because he explained 'i haven't slept with her, and it's great, different than i have ever experienced with anyone before, a whole new side of me, etc.' He gutted me right there. He was so emotionless towards me. I wanted to cry, but I didnt because of my pride. I only said how much it hurt me. He had nothing to say. he didn't even seem to feel badly about it. I told him it was over. I said things like 'i'm glad to know this now. You're a cheater and coward, and why would i even want to be with you? I don't. Let her have you.' He said, yes, you're right. I started spewing off his flaws in the form of cutting jokes. He started telling me mine. There wasn't even passion in his voice. It was matter of fact. The weird thing is; by this point I was feeling matter of fact too. He told me I am stubborn and need such-and-such type of guy. I said he needed such-and-such from a girl. By then I just out and told him i knew one day I forgive him and could be his friend, but not for a while. He said okay but on recollection, you know, that son of a * * * * * didn't say anything about being my friend. He said he wanted to be and then went on to talk about how other women before didn't want anything to do with him and all this other garbage that gave me the idea he didn't give a * * * * either way. He also said something about always having respect for my dignity, except how he gave up on me because i took it too far with my stubborness. * * * * this is getting long! I don't know what the * * * * right now. Outside perspective is badly needed. I really don't have any idea how hes feeling or what because i tuned him out and cut all contact after that. I love the sonofa * * * * * but i know him too well to pretend like this isn't a big clue. He wasn't happy or he couldn't do it anymore or we aren't working. I haven't been able to get closure bc i have so angry and proud, simply distracting myself and not even allowing myself to think about him or the situation. thanks for reading and anything you may have to say

Thank you so much K8tie Kool and Icemotoboy. I really needed to hear that. It's been a few weeks since I have seen him. I think I may have been holding onto this anger so I wouldn't want to see him or contact him or risk letting him see how devasted I feel. What he did really hurt me. It was unacceptable to me. But I do still love him. I don't want to. But I really, truly, absolutely do not want to end up bitter or wasting my life on this either. Perhaps I should start my own thread.

Oh ok. I re-read the original post. I guess I kinda assumed she already knew her own body and how it works.

That sucks. I don't have that problem. Maybe he's not very good at getting you off? pretty much kidding... I guess you can always keep playing (not that area: way to aggrevate it and ensure less orgasms) until you've recovered? Maybe I'm hearing you correctly. You can only orgasm once a night - no matter the approach?

A couple of things come to my mind as possibilities: *she may be a selfish lover *she may have been abused in the past and so has sexual issues that are surfacing as the two of you get close *she may feel pressured to have sex, even though you say it's fine w/out, and so is attempting to comprimise *she's a * * * * in closet It's really tough to guess. It could be so many things! good luck with the talk p.s. The word that got edited: I was saying she may be gay

DN, I liked your post on watching that woman at the party. There was a key point in there that really struck me: acknowledgement. When I (try) to flirt with someone, I go out of my way to address the person and make sure they know I see them,hear them, and am interested in what they have to say. I might hold their gaze longer than usual. I might ask more questions. I'll use their first name a lot. The funny thing is, I seem to do my best flirting when I'm not thinking about it. It's really not rocket science. When I'm relaxed and having fun, I think I exude that 'interested' air. Well, at least that's when I've had the best success!

I usually say something like "Back off Byyatch" It's fun not being nice all the time. Why should we be polite to someone who is being a pushy jerk?!

.......

Ohkay. Thank you Dako. I agree. You're not stupid. You've simply made a big mistake. It's time to remedy it the best you can. The first step would be to get out and NEVER contact him again. good luck

What does OP stand for?

Bleeeehhh! This guy is a loser. Block the gates and stop talking to him. Save your own sanity and dignity. I don't get this: the women in this scenario chopping at each other. Women together are strong. Neither of you deserve to be treated like that. Right now he has his pick of who he wants to be with!! He's having sex with both of you!! Don't you see how ridiculous that is? Place the fury where it belongs: on Him! He's a dog! And he's not thinking about his kids: he's using it as a card. Bleeeehhh!

I agree with patch. When I was in high school, I was madly in love with a good female friend of mine. I already knew I swung both ways (actually at that time I wasn't even sure if I liked men at all in 'that way'). I was straight up with her about my sexual preference. Listen: she was so straight! But she was also a great friend. I did not tell her I loved her;well, we did say 'I love you' all the time, but never as in "I'm in love with you". I'm sure she knew or suspected at some point how I felt, yet she was nothing but graceful and kind about the whole deal. I really found a lot of support and a good friend in her. We are still friends. I was a bridesmaid at her wedding. She married a wonderful man. I highly, highly suggest not pursuing your close friend. If you need to spend less time with her for a while, until the crush or whatever subsides, do it. Pick up some new activities, chat up new friends, expand out your circle. good luck.

This guy isn't gonna give you what you're looking for. Afraid of being seen w/o bra and makeup? That's hilarious. I've known someone who slept in her makeup while he boyfriend stayed over. That crap cracks me up!

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I understand where you are coming from now. That is most strange. It's not really fair. It's kind of a lazy approach. But I can somewhat understand the thought-pattern behind it: especially when you are a teenage girl or young woman, and if you are even somewhat attractive, you will have men asking you out. It really is like shooting fish in a barrel. I've noticed as I get a little older;it slows. And you know - for the women that depend on their outward beauty and sex appeal - well, honey, we all get old and wrinkly. That's how I think of it. Better to stick to the ones that are willing to show some personality,heart, and effort. Again, thanks for the thoughtful response.