The Morrigan

rach99 - if you want him to know you still have feelings beyond friendship - tell him honestly you can't maintain friendly contact without thinking of him as more than a friend, that it's hurting you to try. And tell him since he's not sure what he wants, you'll give him some space, if he changes his mind, he can contact you - but in the meantime, you have to try to get over him, and you can't do that by keeping in touch as if you're in a relationship and yet not in one. If he's going to rethink things - he'll rethink them a lot faster if he's not having to feel like he's proving he's right by you giving him something to argue against (that's a pride thing to an extent), not to mention, if he feels he's in absolutely no danger of losing you - where's the incentive for him to really think about what he wants? So just be plain about it - if he honestly thinks things won't work out, you'll respect that and give him his space, and try to move on yourself, and maybe you can be friends later, after you don't think of him in a "relationship" way. Think of it this way - moving IMMEDIATELY into a friendship with an ex, unless it's truly a mutual decision where neither want more, is much like an unbalanced "friends with benefits" situation - it's just the benefit is emotional support instead of physical intimacy. You're still providing something they need without strings when it's not what you're feeling YOU want, and isn't completely filling your needs. And you're also providing a lot of the support they need to heal from the breakup and move on from you, getting accustomed to having that support outside a relationship. Let them turn to their other friends to help them get over you - you've got enough to deal with trying to get over them without draining yourself further on their account. They're certainly looking after #1 when they decided to break things off because they weren't sure, they're putting themselves first - and you need to draw the line and do the same thing, put your needs first.

link removed Whether you want her back or not, there's a good bit of "human nature" stuff in there as to how and why people can react in ways that seem to not make sense. Guilt and bad feelings over being the one to break up with someone generally make for a "fight or flight" response - either the person who's decided to leave wants to avoid those feelings (and in doing so, the other party as much as possible), or lashes out against him or her in reaction to those feelings (not so much "I hate you!" but "I hate that I feel like this because of you!"). Whether it's wanting to discuss things, or just you expressing your feelings - it brings those feelings of theirs to the surface - generally with hurtful results towards you. If you want her to act better towards you - keep any contact you initiate only to what's necessary as far as your son is concerned. Even better if she initiates a good bit of that - but at the least, any more personal contact - let her bring it up or make the gesture. It's not so much a case of control over YOU as control over how much she's ready to handle at any given moment - pushing her to handle more just gives her reason to lash out at you and deepen her resolve she's absolutely right in her stance since it'll justify in her mind dealing with you is a painful experience. Since she initiated intimacy - it would surprise me if she's really at all sure of how she feels and what she wants - so back off of her as anything but the mother of your son, and see what transpires when she controls any personal contact with you. Shift your focus to your life and your son and off of her, keep the contact you have to have light and casual - and strengthen your OWN resolve you're worth pursuing - whether it's by her, or someone else.

I'd talk to her about it casually - if you're really good friends, and there's no pressure, she should be ok with it. Just ask her casually sometime when you're talking if she'd consider going out sometime - or if she'd rather just keep it as good friends you're cool with that as well. If you can talk to her as easily as you say and don't make it a "go out or friends" thing, but "hey, I was wondering... but it's cool either way, because I really enjoy you as a friend and I'd hate to lose that," it leaves it up to her to consider it. She may well be unsure about a relationship per se if she knows she's going to be leaving, just as you are - just make sure she knows her friendship is the most important thing to you to keep it cool.

There's a world of reasons she might not respond to your mail - anything from yes, she might be thinking of HER ex, to plain old guilt. NOBODY, unless it's a revenge thing, or a really sadistic person, is going to ENJOY hurting someone by breaking up with them. And most are not going to want to deal with the guilt and other feelings of hurting someone else by having to answer "why did you do this to me?" questions. Human nature - most people are going to either completely AVOID what makes them feel bad, or react defensively to it, the typical "fight or flight" response, and much of which reaction you get depends on their personality and the type of confrontation. So yes, it's normal. It's not nice or easy, but it's normal. "No contact" isn't just for the ex - it's for you as well. Every time you get either a lack of response, or a defensive one - it HURTS. Here you are pouring your heart out - and getting no support, just the opposite; they're either running from facing your emotions, or lashing out because it makes them feel bad. Not exactly something that's going to help you heal. Every time you decide MAYBE you can get through to your ex and get one of these reactions, it's like pouring salt in the wounds you're trying to heal. You wouldn't poke and prod at an open physical wound to keep it from healing - and as hard as it is, you don't want to do it to an emotional one either. Whether you ultimately end up with your ex coming back, or end up wanting to try another relationship - you need to be a whole, healthy person to make the best go of it possible. So you're doing the right thing getting out, focusing on you, even casually dating - you don't have to be ready for a relationship to date casually as long as the people you're dating aren't misled. Yes, it'll take time before you stop thinking about your ex when you're out doing things with other people, but it will happen faster than if you sit home alone and dwell on it. Blueeyed99 said it well - you can't control someone else. You can control yourself. Making yourself a stronger person can only benefit you - regardless of what you end up moving on to.

Ash is absolutely correct - every woman's cycle is different, and sperm can be pretty hardy - it can live up to 3-5 days inside a woman's body. Even using the rhythm method CORRECTLY, which involves taking body temperature and charting it every day with a special thermometer - there's a 1 in 5 chance of pregnancy within a year using that method. Cycles and sperm survival are just too unpredictable to make it a very reliable method of birth control. It usually takes more than a few days to "feel" pregnant - so have her take a pregnancy test for both of your peace of minds. I hope she's not pregnant this time, but the sooner you find out, the sooner you can either be at ease or know if you've got that to deal with. Don't rely on what you've heard, or what your friends say, when it comes to sex and birth control - do the research, ask questions - the only truly stupid questions are the ones you don't ask and find out the assumptions were wrong So don't worry about looking stupid or ignorant. And if you're going to continue to be sexually active, decide together on a birth control method that's reliable - and use it EVERY TIME. I'd suggest a combination of a condom and a spermicidal foam or gel as backup - not hard to carry around, and not something either of you have to go to a doctor for, or rely on remembering to take a pill daily. You guys care enough about each other to have sex, so make sure from now on you care enough to have it responsibly, ok?

I'll answer quite simply - it's never ok to use a group of people or a person to try to achieve a separate goal. And I'm sure if you think about that, you know the truth in it. If you honestly miss hanging out with them, doing things with them, and want to see them REGARDLESS of any effect it may or may not have on her - by all means. But if you're only going to reinitiate contact there to see if she reacts differently, it reduces you to her level of not treating them in a way THEY deserve, because you'd have ulterior motives - which isn't fair to them, if they've always treated you well. She's not worth the time you've invested in her thus far - and she's definitely not worth scheming over in any way - if you like her friends and they like you, forget her as a goal, make it a goal to find someone who's on the same page as you and who will deal with you honestly to go out with. See what happens when you start looking around at them and others without her in mind, and different opportunities may occur to you that aren't while she's uppermost in your thoughts.

Ok hon, stop and take a DEEP breath here - you need to try to get a grip for a minute and think, at least long enough to get just a little control back, ok? Emoting in all directions is only going to make you feel MORE trapped and helpless - so let's see if there are some things you DO have control over here. You don't have any control over him - so shelve that thought for the moment. No, it's not going to be easy to heal from a relationship where you'd given up much of your independence and control to someone else - but you have to start somewhere. You know those friends you'd lost most contact with? Try and think about which one might be able to give you the most support here, and who has a healthy sense of self, as well as being a good listener - pick up the phone and call. Same with your family - that you feel like you have to deal with this alone is part of what he's left you with - it's not the reality. Nobody needs to deal with this alone. It isn't weak to need help, it's not wrong or shameful to admit you can't deal alone. There is a certain strength in recognizing your limits - and being willing to act on that, regardless of what anyone else thinks. Don't tie yourself up in knots - take some action. If you don't feel like you can reach out to your friends or family, call a counselor, a hotline, go to a local religious counselor if there's one of your faith. Just remember there ARE people you can talk to who will offer help if you ask it - all that remains is for you to reach out so they KNOW you need that help.

In the meantime - if you're just starting the pill, and don't want to go the condom route - pick up some spermicidal foam or jelly as a backup for the week so you won't increase your chances of being pregnant As Mar said though - if you were already on it, and this is just starting a new pack, the time shouldn't matter since it regulates your hormones to prevent ovulation. Make sure you try to get on a schedule where you take them at the same time every day, like first thing out of bed, so you won't end up accidently skipping!

Maybe go out on simple "fun" dates and see if you still think of her the same way - I can understand how it would feel having seen her grow up and her always being a "little girl" to you. Make it clear to her if you do you're asking her as a friend, so she's not misled. If you end up seeing her differently, deal with that when it comes up. If it doesn't change, and you only feel big brotherly or friendly towards her, explain it to your parents as simply as possible - that having seen her in a diaper, you can't see her as gf material. Chances are they'll back off if you've obviously considered it and have a good explanation for them that makes sense. And you'll still be on good grounds to have a simple friendly relationship with the girl. Good luck! And hope you hear something from your gf soon - I know waiting is a hard thing to do.

Hey... honey, I agree with avman 100%. This has just become your decision, since this guy wants no part in it. That's fine, talk to the counselor, figure out what you want to do, if there's any question, and figure out the things you need to do to be prepared to take care of your forthcoming child. Bear in mind - whether or not he WANTS to be responsible is beside the point, as was said, he WILL help pay to support his child, and if he had an ounce of common sense (which I'm really doubting), he'd look into the base amount in your state himself and start making those arrangements so the state wouldn't have to enforce it. I know it has to be difficult seeing this man in this light after thinking you knew him so well. But think - is this the kind of maturity you want displayed to your children as teens if they get in trouble? Can you trust him not to throw the fact that this pregancy wasn't planned in this child's face? Trust him not to cheat on you again and leave you to the raising of your kids alone - but without even the guarantee he'd be responsible enough to make sure you and the kids came first financially? Is this really the kind of behaviour you want to tie yourself to for the rest of your life? I've said it about abusers - but it holds true for ALL people - they can only change if they WANT to, no amount of love can change someone who doesn't want to make the change themselves. And it seems right now, he has NO inclination to change one whit. Why make excuses for his behaviour when he can't even be bothered to excuse it for himself? If he speaks before he thinks under stress - can you imagine what he might say if your daughter (and I hope it doesn't happen) got pregnant young? He's not even willing to listen to a COUNSELOR without acting like a sulky 12 year old (except my 11 year old would be insulted by that), if he can't even grant a professional some respect, and have her words make him think, you think he's going to listen to anyone else? You have a child, and another on the way - surely you don't need a third in a grown man's body to raise - you want a partner you can trust. YES, his parents deserve to know the truth - that they have a grandchild on the way - but I'd also respectfully suggest you offer them the chance to know their grandchild - whether they take you up on it or not is their problem, but they're probably well aware of their son's faults, they're in their 70's, and it would be a kind gesture on your part, as well as a mature one. And they may well want to get to know their grandchild - there are many grandparents who have way more contact with their grandkids than the father, and don't know how their own child could act in the ways they do. Don't count on them to be able to influence his actions though - if he's acting like this towards the situation, he's likely to act like this towards them as well. You're only responsible for you and your children - not for this man who seems unwilling to grow up. Don't make yourself feel responsbile for his reactions - you're not, not at all. You have quite enough to handle without trying to take responsibility for him - let him learn his lessons the hard way, or he won't learn at all. Right now concentrate on taking care of you, and making sure you're in the best frame of mind possible for your daughter and the child growing in you. I wish you the best of luck.

It's less a case of security and maturity than confidence and attitude - an attitude that says "I'm worth some attention myself, even if I'm interested, I expect some effort on your part too!" What I term the "princess treatment" might win a girl - but it's literally just that, it's winning her, "courting her favor" in a way she's on top and KNOWS it. And that simply can't keep anyone who's used to having to work for what they want interested for long. There's a LOT more self esteem and attraction to be had from being "chosen" by a guy you've had to put equal effort into as opposed to one who fixates on you so immediately the rest of the world no longer exists. Think a minute - which makes you ultimately feel more worthy - a girl who showers you with attention, or one who has several guys looking for the same attention she decides to give only to you? It may seem silly, childish, etc. Unfortunately it's human nature that most of us have a competitive streak when it comes to the opposite sex, and get a bigger boost from attention hard won from someone who could obviously (to our mind) have anyone (I have all these guys wanting me, but... I'm choosing you) than someone who simply worships the ground we walk on (I saw you and that's it, you're awesome). One simply makes us feel we have more of a "something special" IN COMPARISON to everyone else. The other is just being "singled out" without any idea of what we did, or who we were "better" than, to warrant the attention. Yes, the overwhelming attention is nice in the beginning - but it wears off. What do you value more - the first car you busted your butt working jobs all summer for, even if the paint wasn't just right, and it was halfway to the grave, or the one your parents handed down to you, even if it was a bit nicer? Why, the one you busted your butt for of course - the work invested, and "winning" that prize - gave it more value. Perfect situation is where both the guy AND girl have to put forth effort in the little "courting and mating" rituals. Both making an effort to be noticed - and both reaping the rewards of the results. A healthy give and take and repartee is lively, interesting, and keeps the feeling of earning that thing you value alive. The "jerk factor" only comes in because, especially younger guys who are still trying to build confidence - girls too - tend to extremes in ways. So it's the ones who can be jerks (male and female) that manage to give that good vibe of attention earned - and the ones who fall in your lap who won't ultimately keep your interest, because you're not being "encouraged" to do your share of the "work" to earn the results you're getting. This, btw, is also the allure of the "shy" guys and girls - it's not so obvious when the attraction is returned - so it's sweeter when the indication the attraction is mutual is finally "won." Wow, I rambled!

Whoa and hold on... You DO realize you're describing a controlling and abusive relationship here, don't you? He calls you names, cheats on you, doesn't allow you to see your friends, doesn't allow you your freedom... this is not a healthy relationship, hon. One thing he was absolutely right about - no amount of love, understanding, or anything else can change him. You aren't responsible for him being like this. You aren't responsible for making him change. You can't make him change into the person you thought he was and acted like in the beginning. HE has to truly WANT to change, and make a sincere effort - and he's told you he's not interested. That's a huge red flag that at this point in his life - what you've experienced from him is ALL you can expect from him - except like most controllers and abusers, he will escalate and get worse over time. I am sorry to have to be so blunt, but from everything you've said here, this is a situation I'm terrified you'll go back to, for thinking it's YOU who's at fault for "making him act like this." And it wouldn't surprise me if his behavior escalated into the physical either - what's to stop him? He's isolated you from the world and your friends and got you in the position you're utterly dependent on him for how you feel about yourself. Please, please, PLEASE do yourself a favor and call someone from a domestic abuse hotline, and describe to them what you've described here. To give you an idea, here is a basic list of some of the red flags - and answering YES to even ONE of these is an indication you need to look at your relationship and evaluate whether or not it's abusive: Does your partner: * Embarrass you with bad names and put-downs? * Control what you do, who you see or talk to, and/or where you go? * Stop you from seeing or talking to friends and/or family? * Prevent you from getting or keeping a job? * Take your money, make you ask for money, and/or refuse to give you money? * Make all of the decisions? * Look ar you or act in ways that scare you? * Shove, slap, or hit you? * Destroy your property? * Threaten to hurt or kill your pets? * Intimidate you with guns, knives, or other weapons? * Coerce you into dropping, or never filing, criminal charges against partner? * Act like their abusive behavior is no big deal, tell you it's your fault, or deny it happened? * Threaten to commit suicide if you leave? * Threaten to harm or kill you? You can't love him enough to change him - the only thing you CAN do is love YOURSELF enough to recognize when you're in a relationship that's dangerous to your health - mental and/or physical, and take steps to get out of the cycle and heal. Please call someone and get a professional opinion if you don't want to think it - but do at least that much for yourself. link removed has several hotlines and more material to read - please call someone before you're trapped even further in this cycle.

Have you ever talked to her about it just in terms of how she feels about same-sex relationships? Sometimes it's easier if you know a person's feelings in general before getting personal - and it provides a good lead in if they're receptive and seem to have a good attitude about it. Feel your way and find out if you're on the same wavelength in general first, and see if that makes you feel any easier about having a more personal conversation about it with her.

Remember as well, there's nothing stopping you from determining what's comfortable for you - if you want to take a break, and feel you've healed enough to accept her as only a friend, no thoughts getting in the way and bringing you down, you're free to do that as well. It's a case of what's best for you - just sounds like you could use a break to treat yourself well for a bit and feel more balanced about her - and then consider how you feel about being only friends. You still like her as a person enough to stay friends after that - you should have a bit more of a comfort zone by then, and not be as brought down if something gets mentioned about another guy, or something else in her life right now it would hurt you to hear.

It really sounds like you need to figure out what attracts you to the guys you go out with in the first place, if you lose interest that quickly. If you're going for a "type" of personality or appearance - get to know some different types of guys on a friendly level - and see if you find yourself gradually attracted more to a completely different kind of guy. Sometimes the initial "at first glance" attractions are pretty fleeting, because we find once we get to start knowing the person they really are - they don't live up to the expectation and lose the attraction. Now, someone you're only a little attracted to and start getting MORE interested on talking and just getting to know them - that might be a guy who could keep your interest for the longer haul, one who would interest you on enough levels to want to dig a bit deeper and form a relationship with. (Sometimes "Mr Hot" in flesh turns out to me "Mr Boring" in mind, you know?)

He sent a card - right now, you need to take that as his "comfort zone" of contact. Send him a Happy New Year card or a blank card with a nice "Thank you for the card - it was good hearing from you. Hope you had a good Christmas, and have a great New Years." If he gets to the point he's feels he's ready for phone contact - he'll let you know by either calling you himself, or saying "call me sometime." For now, take it that he's not sure he's ready for anything more intimate and stay at his level - going further will only do one of two things; 1) Make him think he shouldn't have sent the card because he wasn't ready to talk, or 2) Make him think he has to do next to nothing for you to make a 10x bigger effort. Neither is good. So let him know on his level you got the card and are open to hearing from him just by your actions - and are respecting what he's ready for.

Ok, one thing here... It seems you're losing sight of what a great friend you have in this girl because you're obsessing on the one thing you DON'T have from her. It's not often we make friends we connect with well - that in itself is something to value and cherish - don't mess it up for seeing the cup as only half empty, and not half full! From what you've said about her, she is a real friend, and one who understands you. Cherish that for now, she's in another relationship - if that doesn't work out, THEN you can explore if she'd be open to the possibility of more. You're always going to have friends at different levels as well - even the ones who don't understand you are still there to a degree - and the more you shut them out, the more you shut yourself IN. In the meantime, you owe it to both yourself and to her to start really looking for what you do have, instead of what you don't. No, it doesn't solve the frustration of not being able to pursue a relationship with her right now - but it might give you a little perspective that'll help you be a little more patient - and able to be the best friend to her you can be. Nobody is at their best when they're caught up in a sea of "might have beens" and "if onlys." Instead of bottling up your feelings - find some sort of outlet to pour them into. I don't know where your interests lie - but ANY kind of creative pursuit usually involves letting out and expressing emotion - so use one. You don't even have to be particularly good at it - this is for YOU, not for anyone else. Write in a journal, write a short story that reflects how you feel, or a poem, lyrics to a song, a sketch, an actual song, play music, whatever works well for you. Remember, it doesn't have to be perfect to anyone except you - all it needs to do is have the feeling you're trying to give it. And keep your head up a bit - things change every day, and you need to be in the right frame of mind if you're going to see opportunities when they come knocking instead of being blind to them.

It's also alarmingly easy for "just good friends" to become ALL she wants, ever, if she has your emotional support getting over you. While people who START as friends often do start to feel more, it's much more of an uphill battle if you go FROM a relationship TO friends and want to go back - the incentive just isn't there, because the emotional support to make it a nice easy transition for the unsure party is being offered on a silver plate. Yes, it CAN happen, but more often than not, you'll find yourself in the position of the "best supportive pal who knows me so well I can confide everything to him," which if she starts dating someone else, will be a LIVING HELL for you. Step back, let her come to you when she's ready, and the nice little steps we go through towards someone we're attracted to fall into place MUCH more easily - and if she comes back, she'll value you more if she's seen what she's got after missing it for a while, and has to make a little effort to get it back.

I'm not sure if that was intentionally cruel, or just an extreme of thoughtlessness, but either way, that's low. Get rid of them asap. That's a reminder you certainly DON'T need. And whether it was thoughtless, cruel, or careless - keep in mind this is a side of her you're seeing you DON'T want in your life, ok?

Hey, Ok - I'm gonna be blunt here, if you know your mom has a problem with it and is a very nonconfrontational person, it's a bad position you're putting her in. She may know, or she may not, depends on how much exposure she's had to the stuff to recognize the smell of it - but if she's not the type to say something even if she does know - best bet is to take it somewhere else for your recreational use - since it is illegal. Should she speak up if she knows and disapproves? Betcha she should - but if you know she probably wouldn't even if she was uncomfortable with it - it's taking advantage of her personality and all to continue. Head on over to a friend's who doesn't have a problem with it, you'll be able to do as you wish in your own place after you've got a place of your own - but try not to put her between the proverbial rock and hard place when it's her place you're crashing at, ok? You'll probably both be more at ease if you're not paranoid and she's not wondering and afraid to speak up!

Grab a copy of the Apartment Shopper's Guide (free), couple flyers from storage facilities, and write out a very nice but formal note telling her she needs to make arrangements to be out by X date, this is NOT a comfortable situation for you, and it's time she start getting serious, no excuses. If necessary, get a third party to mediate for you, but stick to your guns that while you'll be happy to help make it easy for her to get her things and won't make any trouble if she needs to come back to get some of them, she needs to make firm plans to be elsewhere, even if it's another roommate arrangement. Right now, even if it's not starting intentionally, you're getting in the position of being responsible for her problems. Feel the jaws of the trap closing around your ankle? She's sick? Tell her that's fine, but no reason if she's calling her friends she doesn't have time to call the apartments or roommate wanted ads as well, and compile a list in her price range. She made the decision to leave you - even if it means moving back in with her parents, she's going to have to follow through on that all the way and not leave you stuck in this position, because whether she means it this way or not - it IS using you.

Hey, Sorry to hear you're dealing with this in the holiday season - we put together a post not that long ago, take a read, read through the others experiences who also posted in the resulting thread, and see if it helps make a little more sense of things for you. link removed

If you want to discuss it with her before breaking contact - just be honest and direct, that trying to be nothing more than friends when your emotions are still so involved is painful for you and tangling your feelings to where you end up pressing her when you don't want to do that, and tell her while she's working through what she wants, she needs to respect your need to heal. If she should decide she wants more from you, contact you then, but not before, since you have feelings beyond friendship for her, and you can't change them while you're staying in touch. If she misses you and wants to contact you then, she knows where you stand, what to expect from you, and what not to expect, realistically. There comes a point where you have to take yourself off the emotional rollercoaster and allow her to sort out how she feels without any influence - if she comes back then, you'll know it had nothing to do with being pushed in any direction, but came from her. And if not, you'll have the space you need to be working towards feeling like a whole person again, not stuck in that hellish limbo where you're neither in a relationship, nor feel free to pursue anything else.

link removed You may or may not have read through this - if not, take a read through, if nothing else, it'll certainly take enough time reading through everyone else's trials and tribulations to get your mind a little more settled. I think one of the biggest misapprehensions is that in order for someone to miss you, they need the reminder of your presense. The fact is, if their feelings and attachment ran strongly enough in the relationship - it's that support and contact, or lack thereof, that will be the first thing missed when you're not available, and the giving of it without strings that makes it SO easy to fall into the "friend zone" with someone who's unsure of their feelings or committment. That support and encouragement, the person they turn to first, if offered without strings, basically gives them a base to heal from the rest of the relationship from, and move on to just being friends - because you're supportive through it all selflessly. Now, if you only want friendship, that's great, and works well. If you don't, it can backfire - in spades. So take a breath, read a while, and think about what's best for you, and what you really want to accomplish for yourself.

Mar's right hon - take a deep breath, let it out, and pull it together for a minute, ok? Panicking isn't going to make you any more confident in him. He's going to have to work around and run into other women - and if he's not at least somewhat friendly and personable - it could kill his chances at advancement in any career - no manager wants to promote someone who's so aloof he doesn't feel comfortable with them interacting with other employees in a nice way that makes for good morale in the workplace. Just because he shares a friendly word in between business talk doesn't mean anything - if you say hi to a male cashier checking out your groceries, it doesn't mean you have mad fantasies about him - you're just being nice, and giving someone a nice impression, right? Same goes in all personal interactions - as long as you're the one he loves and comes home to, it's just he's a normal friendly guy who people will think you're lucky to have, and vice versa - be proud of it when people think he's a nice guy - because he's yours! And no, not all guys are the same - or we wouldn't be picky about who we fell for - just remember to take that step back and judge when your feelings are coming from your own fears of losing him - and if you really have something to worry about. Don't let fear and insecurity spoil what you've got.