caro33

Completely understandable, we all hate turning heavy in relationships when we're not sure and the day's been nice, and I think that fear of ruining something just makes the whole process that much more difficult, gets the cycle going even more of of 'no! what's wrong with me, it's FINE' to 'oh god I can't do this' and back again. So much pressure and you can't share how you feel with the one person you need to! I can recognise this must be really hard for you, but kudos again to you for being strong. You do seem to have a gut feel about this, that it needs to be addressed, because you came here, and because you've already talked about this with him. This would tend to show it's something, not just you being silly. Trust it. If he's that great, if he's worthy of you and he's truly Mr Future Life Partner of Girl_2, and if you treat him with honesty, compassion and respect, he will not leave you. He might be hurt, but he won't just turn tail and go. If he DOES you have your answer anyway now don't you? Keep being kind to him and I think he'll stick by you until you're ready to make a decision. Perhaps don't share the stuff about the other guy, I assume you haven't? This is just about you and him. Good luck, and PM me anytime if it would help.

It is a turn off to lack kissing style alignment, but you can get past it. They might be AWESOME at other stuff Nerves or 'keeness' can also make their style a bit off if it's the first few times with a new person. If all else is great, I reckon give these folk a chance. A friend of mine married the guy she originally thought couldn't kiss at all.

Yeah I understand the self-fulfulling prophecy issue. I guess I'm trying to simplify this and say that the PERCEPTION of a problem is itself the problem. The fact is, you are feeling this, which already tells you there are things you need to need to sort out and be clearer about to move forward. You don't have to be clear about them right now, but recognising you need to take stock is required. You have done this. Don't try to push for an outcome if you are not ready. Take that time away from the boyfriend and see how you feel after a month or so. I know this sounds hard, and it is, but in a way you are making what might be the most important relationship decision you've made so far. Really, if things just went along, would you be looking to get married soon? Is that the 'logical' next step if things are good? Children? Think about the ramifications of doing all that than waking up a year later and thinking 'damn, I should have listened to myself earlier, this is all wrong for me'. It must be awful to feel like you're hurting the one you love, but the smaller hurt now seems a much better deal for him than the potential much larger hurt later...Take some time, get some distance, see if you miss him, how much, and why. That's much more fundamental and easy to assess than 'how much does he annoy me today', or trying to tally his good characteristics against his bad ones and see what wins out. YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING. I think my husband had feelings of doubt for a while with his ex, but this was 8 years ago or so, and he's not the best at getting into the timelines of emotions. He just went with the flow and pushed it all down. Re speaking to people, is there an independent third party who could help you then? A counsellor? I'm thinking that having someone take you through your thought processes might help unpick this for you and also give you some confidence that you're not 'wrong' or 'selfish', you're just going through the normal re-evaluation processes people have after 10 years. I assume you're approaching 30? Yes, I'm in Melbourne.

By the way by us being 'better off' I am not implying any failing on the exes' behalf. It's just a matter of aligned life values, chemistry, all that stuff, working better for all involved.

Sweetheart you are welcome, and don't beat yourself up about this. It really doesn't sound selfish. Selfish would be doing whatever you wanted even if it meant treading all over the needs and feelings of others. You know, it COULD be said that it would be selfish to keep him with you, and you with him, when neither his nor your best interests actually lie in this relationship. It's 'selfish' because you are letting your fearful side dictate what's 'right' for everyone else (ie your other needs, your boyfriend). Is there anyone who you can talk to about this face-to-face who has either been through it, or has stuck it out through a long term relationship? Perhaps they can help shed light. I keep raising my own experience with my husband in other threads and feel like a smug narcissist for doing so, but here goes. My husband (very recently married) also had a 10 year relationship before me, and he got married. He had real doubts, and did the Australian man thing and never shared his feelings with anyone. He did as Batya suggested some people do, and got married because it seemed like the right thing to do, and he didn't know who else would be out there instead of her. He had no idea if his doubts were 'enough' to not go through with it, and he suppressed his needs. Needless to say, it ended, and it ended not long after the wedding. You can't ignore this stuff. And going through a divorce is no picnic. I feel really sorry for his then-wife, because it must have been hard for her, and I know he also suffered terribly. And as I posted before, I went through this too. Here's the smug part: now he and I are so happy, and each of us much much better off than when we were with our exes. Our exes are much much happier with their lives too. Give it some time, things will be clearer. You are doing the right thing. Perhaps just try and stay away from the other guy for a little while to give yourself a break on that front too though.

I know this sounds simplistic, but the fact that you have serious doubts, and only you knows how serious they are, is probably all the evidence you need that you might need to stop and take stock, perhaps leading to ending your current relationship. Maybe it's not all absolute, perhaps you just express your need for some time to evaluate things, and then take that time. You don't need to break up, but perhaps you do need some space. That might hurt your boyfriend to hear, but you are not doing him or yourself any favours if you downplay your own concerns and then find out you can't live like that anyway. You can manage this with dignity and integrity and make the right decision without having to take a giant leap into the unknown just yet. I don't think that what you're describing sounds like selfishness at all. It's just life and if it's how you feel it's perfectly valid. It's much braver to face these things head on and deal with them than to suppress your needs (as I always did). There might be short term pain as you both readjust to new arrangements but there's always a way to mend any hurt feelings as long as you stay civil and kind to one another.

I was in a relationship that was much like this, so I understand the fear of commitment issue even after 10 years. We were together from me being 19 to 29. When it's been that long, and you started that young, it's completely understandable that you have mixed feelings but can't see yourself leaving. They become 'family' after a while. Sorry Girl_2, I can't offer any sage advice, you see for me it was my guy that had the doubts. He ended up taking off one day, out of the blue, and we never spoke again, except for when he came to pick up his stuff. I was HEARTBROKEN. But you know, I am eternally grateful he ended it, because we were not really suited to a full and happy future together, and I NEVER would have left him. I just didn't have it in me, I was too dependent, too scared of the alternatives and the unknown. And I did love him, even if we weren't really suited and he bugged me sometimes! You sound like you are dealing with something many people deal with as they hit their late 20s, early 30s and they've been with someone for a decade or so. It has happened to every friend I have had who was in a long term relationship - every single relationship, actually bar one, has ended because they just weren't compatible in that 'next stage of life' way. It happens. Be strong and do what you need to do. It does sound like you need to move on. If you do, believe me, what may be hard now will pay back 1000 fold in the future happiness that you will have with someone else, as well as the future happiness of your current boyfriend. Won't comment on the issue with the other person, except to ask: how sure are you that this crush isn't just something you are focussing on to justify your complex feelings for your boyfriend? Is that possible?

I agree, it's the elephant in the middle of the room here, it can't be ignored. You may be nervous to hear something you don't want to, but the plain fact is that the 'rules' as you understand them have been changed and you need to know what you are dealing with. It's perfectly reasonable and mature for you to say 'something seems to have changed with us, you seem uncomfortable with me - are you able to share with me how you're feeling?' Try to ignore the message from the guy that popped up, it may be part of the issue but the core concern is what does SHE think and what's going on with her feelings for you, rather than anything else. Good luck. I assume you have gone to chat already though, hope you are okay.

Good on you moonbeam, I like that.

Agree. Pretend I said all this as well.

Mate, I was THERE. Absolutely, down to your last word. You have just not met someone who's in the right place to meet you yet. My ex was my family, I was with him from when I was 19, and couldn't imagine being with anyone else. When he took off out of the blue 10 yrs later 'because he didn't feel like being in a relationship anymore' I was absolutely desolate. What was wrong with me? We never spoke again, so I never found out what happened. As time went by, I made what I thought were connections, but the guy in question was never really into me, even though they were to start. Perhaps I came accross as too keen, I don't know. I didn't think so, but perhaps it's like a smell you're not aware of. Perhaps they were just more aware of a lack of perfect fit, but I was all ready to compromise just so I didn't have to be alone. It's a complex feeling isn't it, the sense of empowerment 'I can do what I want! yeah! I'm awesome!' and the sad sense of being alone, or being wasted because you can't share things with someone who gets you. PLEASE be hopeful, enjoy today/tomorrow (depends where you are!), enjoy the week. There is someone out there for you, multiple someones, catching your train, eating at the same restaurant one day after you went, sitting in the same cinema, and one day those lifecycles that are already so close will come together and you'll be thinking 'hey! I needed more alone time!' Nothing wrong with a wallow occasionally, I am a big believer in wallow time. But try not to let the negative thoughts pervade your life because if you are in a city, you're out there functioning in it, you have some social interaction, finding someone to be happy with is just a matter of time. You sound bright and capable, you'll be right.

Oh my! Baby Carrot this sounds really awful, what a difficult experience. I would have freaked out completely, this must have been unnerving. How to get over the paranoia? I guess the difference is determining what is unnecessary paranoia and what is a justifiable concern for your own wellbeing. I agree with Scotcha that legal action would be next, if you are up for it and have ANY ongoing concerns about YB's presense in your life. Change your cell phone and email details if you haven't already, and police very closely who gets that information. The world of online dating sounds like a challenge. I will hazard a guess that there are perhaps marginally more weirdos there than you would encounter in the real world, just because of the chance for anonymity and perhaps their weirdness has made them less likely to engage with people in the real world. But as time has gone by, there are more and more un-weird people signing up, like you, and the chances of hooking up with a weirdo go down. Also, the online thing means you're more likely to meet someone who isn't really a match, just because our normal means of assessing someone's 'fit' (eyes and ears, smell etc) have been disabled, and by the time you meet them in person the virtual experience (which may have been a little put on, more so that would be possible in real life) has already biased you. Who knows. This was just one weirdo, and this happens to people unfortunately, both online and outside the web. YB will bounce out of your life. Hartigan may be great, he may be fine, but it sounds like you need some time to chill for your own sake, to get your foundation back. This is what I would do in an ideal world if I was you, based on what you've said. I would extract myself from the online dating world and spend time with friends and family that I trust. People who have positive stories to take to heart that relationships can work, people can be trusted. Keep clear of the negative people while you're getting your mojo back. Keep up the counselling if that helps. Perhaps keep things cool with Hartigan if that feels like something that would be okay for you. If want to meet people, take up a hobby, meet people face to face, and don't give anyone any of your personal info, including cell nbr and email, unless and until you feel comfortable. I would go to dance lessons with a friend, something like that. Once you feel like you have taken back control, and time has passed, I would hope that your paranoia would reduce significantly. Don't beat yourself up about this though, and don't assume the worst of people. There are creeps out there, like there always was, but there are great people too. You can patrol your perimeters and keep yourself safe (well as safe as any of us can be sure of) while also watching out for the good ones.

Wow what an interesting end to an interesting thread! Ironic is not the word I'm after but I can't come up with the right word... Good call slightybent.

Sorry if I sound like some 'hey you'll get there' relationship evangelist by the way. Probably annoying. I wanted hope when I was alone but I am projecting more than I should...

I used to spend entire weekends where I wouldn't leave the house! All alone, playing freecell on the computer. Now that's an embarrassing admission. Occasional dates with guys who just anti-clicked with me, but where I still thought, 'hmm what the hell why not go for another date' because I had lost any sight of there being anyone else that might suit me. A friend of mine and I have agreed that dating someone who you don't click with is more lonely an experience than a bad night on your own. I told myself I was happier alone, and believed it, but dang doesn't it get lonely. Rocking out to angry music, watching appalling TV.... I have a close friend who's a guy, who was there for me all through this experience, and we used to have long phonecalls. I actually remember saying to him "I feel like I'm killing time, and I could be enjoying myself more, but I'm scared and alone and trying to deal with that too. You know, if someone could say to me, 'hey you'll meet someone, you won't be alone forever, it'll be great, but it won't happen for a year', I'd be pleased, 'woo hoo, so I don't have anything to be worried about, better get myself looking FINE'. I'd spend my remaining alone time enjoying myself." And I know these are quite lame thoughts, but I still had them. And the funny thing is that as my last 'relationship' (between droughts) happened, and I said this to my friend, I met my future husband. The same weekend. Now it all seems so simple and I feel like such a loser for wasting all that time wallowing and playing freecell (although I got kinda good). At least you are doing more useful sounding things in this quiet time!

Look there's really nothing I can say to help you feel better, and I'm afraid I'll just sound smug, but try to have faith guys. Don't regret your 20s not meeting guys, god knows what could ever have been a "better" way of doing things. I spent my 20s wrarmly wrapped up in a relationship, only to be unceremoniously dumped when I was nearing 30. Had myself some relationships with real losers, a couple of nice ones who didn't live near me, spent a long time on my own. I was about as cynical and alone as anyone feels, and true to form, only met someone once I had given up. I met a wonderful guy a year and a half ago and we were married a couple of weeks ago. I NEVER saw it coming. NEVER. I'm your typical professional woman in her 30s, all work and rare social events. Plus I am AWFUL at small talk and contrived social situations. Please try and be gentle on yourself bighair, you'll be fine. It's just a numbers game. And no it doesn't sound easy when you're in a new area, but there are always options. How about going to salsa classes? Starting to learn a new language? Sculpting? Stuff that forces stranger together in ways that you have a chance to bond. I know people come up with these ideas all the time, but you know, they work. I think that sounds much better than forced dating scenarios, but each to her own. Bighair you were right I think, to listen to yourself and steer clear of guys with excess emotional baggage. Sorry you had a hard time on the other thread. I have to go now, and I wanted to give you a stronger show of support. But anyway, stick around, and get in touch any time you like.

If you can, why not? Is there a reason you don't want to, or it might be difficult? (I mean this, I genuinely don't know how to block nbrs from a home line)

Yes, agree that it depends on the family dynamics, but than generally it's best not to share with family. They are just not impartial enough. However, and this might sound a bit general (and sexist), but I have found that men, and men from my country in particular (Australia) often do not share their thoughts with ANYONE. It's a male thing, perhaps a combination of not wanting to look weak and not feeling a strong emotional need to bond either. And even if they do there aren't many mates they have who will actually offer useful advice. I'm sure it's not all guys, but every man I've been close with, including my husband, only really shares their feelings with the girl they're going out with. That sounds really isolated to me, and if my husband was having problems with us I would much rather he sought counsel from his family than no one at all. I would probably feel differently if I didn't respect his family though...

If you're interested, the link to that other thread is - There has been some robust discussion on this issue, but end result was *somewhat* agreed.

Well it's all happened now, so finewhine how did things go?

I completely agree with Juliana and Emmylu. Juliana in particular has put it really well.

"Leave it alone? being too analytical?" Yes. It sounds harmless. We all want rules bent for us sometimes but that doesn't mean anything bad is happening.

I guess the issue is why is she uncomfortable talking to you about your feelings for her? And it depends what level of discomfort she appears to be showing. I have no idea really, but will give you an example from my own life. I was always shy when starting relationships, and never took the first step. In fact I would just stare at the ground. Nerves! But that didn't mean I wasn't interested in the guy at all. The thing is, I clammed up. Didn't change the subject, just froze. So someone would be coming in for the kiss, or talking feelings, and I woud be like a zombie. Not very attractive or impressive I know, just shy. When I HAVE been disinterested in a guy who is keen on me, I have been very good at been blase and not giving them the opportunity to get all mushy. I have dropped hints very clearly that I am interested in someone else so they got the clear impression they were 'friendzoned'. I have not been shy at all, definitely uncomfortable, but not shy. If I have had to have 'the talk' I have been clear about where I stand. Now not everyone operates the same way obviously. But from what you've said, she has - (a) Made it clear to you she is at least toying with the idea of becoming a lesbian. A lesbian. You are a man, which automatically disqualifies you. This sounds reasonably unambiguous, and if she was really keen on you she might have kept some of her confusion to herself until she was sure of her feelings about her own sexuality. (b) She has told your mutual friends she doesn't want to lead you on in case it gets your hopes up. I'm not sure how this can be viewed in any way but negatively, insofar as you are wanting a romantic relationship with her. She is saying she likes you very much, but not in 'that way'. I would really like to be able to recalibrate your story in order to give you news you want to hear, but it's a bit of a stretch. Look, I'm not there with you, and the subtle nuances of all the above might shift the equation more in your favour than would be apparent. You have no way of knowing unless you ask straight out. But please, don't expect 'good news'. If it turns out she's decided she's not gay, AND she's also into you, AND she's also ready to try a relationship, AND that's with you, AND the cultural factors aren't too much a problem, that's great. But it would seem unlikely! Can you grab a quiet drink with her one day/evening to address it? My advice is to make this as easy for her as possible. Do NOT launch into YOUR feelings. Start off asking her about what she's been thinking recently about relationships, her sexuality, in 'safe' language that you guys already use to discuss this stuff. Give her the chance to say if she's come to any conclusions, it might save you exposing yourself unduly. If she says things like she's not sure, she's maybe not gay, things that indicate she might be available to you, that's perhaps your time to then take a moment and say that you've really valued your time together and you've been wondering where it would lead...Give her the chance to fill the gaps. And if she doesn't, your next step is to tell her her you feel... Perhaps others have better advice, but I think something like the above approach should minimise the risk that it all goes pear-shaped. As long as you don't steamroll her with your feelings (which can feel really confronting if you're on the other end of it) and give her the opportunity to reject you gracefully and with no hard feelings, then I think your friendship should remain intact, and at least you'll be clearer.

Me too, quiet day at work though. Hanging out for lunchtime. I guess what i'm saying is equal EFFORT, or equal INPUT, whatever that is - because he too is giving her HIS time, heart, great companionship. But he's also driving and paying for everything. It's balance, and the 'currency' depends on what each person in the relationship values. Maybe one person does all the ironing, and believes that makes up for the other person doing all the bathroom cleaning. But if the other person doesn't see it that way you have a problem. No it's not a business relationship, and these things are rarely truly balanced, but it ends up coming down to the fact that if one person thinks they are putting more in than they are getting out, this needs to be addressed. No more from me on this one, have good night and go home already!

hazy, I don't think we are on such different pages here. I have tried to qualify my statements so they are not seen as 'absolute', but you are taking me extremely literally. I am merely saying the principle should be SOME form of exchange in SOME form of currency, and am asking the OP to consider that she might have unfair expectations of her boyfriend - which, by the way, he is also telling her. In your example, you are both pulling the weight financially, and you are helping him treat you both. It's not the same as the situation we are talking about with the OP, where the boyfriend drives her everywhere and pays for everything, and he is starting to push back. I am also not making a statement about the great lot in life of a housewife, I was merely thinking that that is a example where the woman is not bringing money into the house but is obviously making a significant contribution. In any event, putting aside feminist arguments about paying for things and unpaid women's labour, the situation here for hope123 is one of clarifying the roles and expectations of each of them within the relationship, or at the least making sure it doesn't look to her boyfriend that she is taking him for granted. I think scarew is spot on.