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caro33

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Everything posted by caro33

  1. caro33
    Umm, re your first point, that's what I meant. Guys feel the pain too, and yes perhaps sometimes it's a sympathy ploy, but it's also what a number of people perceive as truth. Leading from that, I also didn't mean it was a fact, I meant a perceived fact, just like the perceived fact of this thread that men don't have any cause to bother with relationships. Thank you for the correction. IATBFMC it appears that you are keen to paint men as having it easy. You may not mean to but your style of debating does sometimes look that way. I am as feminist as anyone but still recognise that men are not all the same, and also that men experience pain and emotional suffering, and also that many men require love and intimacy. Debating whether women could deal with the same stressors better, or whether women get the worse deal in life seems to me to be a little beside the point. Why are we engaging in such sweeping generalisations when it doesn't actually help anything?
  2. caro33
    Maybe the point can at least be taken that it's not all beer and skittles for men either. How about all the guys who post on this forum lamenting the fact that women don't like 'nice guys'?
  3. caro33
    This sounds like a lonely place to be for you, and I'm sorry you are feeling like this. I don't want to be quick to say he doesn't care, because whether we women like it or not, some people, and many men in particular, just don't have the same sentimentality for some things. And maybe he thinks he's doing heaps of stuff to show he loves you, but because you don't 'see' those things as special, you guys just aren't making the connection. Are you sure you are giving him enough credit? I have no idea what's going on here, and I am certainly not saying you are overreacting. However, I think it's simplistic for people to say 'well he's not valuing the same stuff you so he's obviously doesn't care enough about you'. That is not always the case. I think the issue is more a matter of articulating what you need and expect, and that includes 'honey what did you want to do for our anniversary? I am organising something special, I hope you like it'. That sends him the message - 'go do something, I am expecting some effort'. If you have done everything you can, been clear, direct, and also sent all sorts of other messages to back it all up, and he isn't playing, then yes, maybe you have a problem. If this is a big deal and it is not getting resolved, maybe he's not the guy for you after all. Coming to that conclusion may be hard, but it is also a lot more practical than quietly hoping he just 'gets' it at some stage, and hoping your feelings don't get hurt in the meantime. You are being sent a clear message about what he values, the issue is for you to decide if that is good enough.
  4. caro33
    Hi Rabican, If she was talking to these guys, even now, why do you think that might be? Could it be an ego thing, where she sees it as harmless (so what you don't know won't hurt you) but she likes it because it makes her feel good? Or do you think something more threatening might be going on? Not that I think the more innocent sounding line is an excuse. If you have made this crystal clear in the past that it is a bit deal, and you guys resumed your relationship based on certain expectations, she should have enough of a grip on what's important to have stopped this behaviour. But people make mistakes, sometimes they still choose not to 'get' what is really is stake, and they believe their own crap about how 'safe' their behaviour really is. It's then a matter of breaking through or giving up. Do you think she may have learned from the most recent experience? Sounds confronting to have had you there telling this guy off while she sat there. How did she behave while this happened? Was she sorry/angry/defensive/surprised? What do you really think, what do your guts tell you about her motivations, the degree to which you can trust her, and whether you should stay or go?
  5. caro33
    Well given what you are saying abour your own views of yourself I would agree with the others: try not to project your own insecurities onto your boyfriend. I know it's hard, I do it too. When you are feeling bad about yourself it's hard to see why your boyfriend is with you, and you assume they would prefer other women. The key things as I see them are: - He will always find other people attractive. Doesn't help your self esteem I know, but it's the truth, so don't try magical thinking here that he should want only you and then punish yourself, and him, when it's not the reality. - You will always find other people attractive, ditto the above. - As others have said, the issue is if you guys act on your attraction to others or not, and what 'acting on the attraction' means depends on your agreed boundaries. For some it's p*rn, for others everything but full-on sex is fine with other people. - Like someone said, he will say dumb stuff sometimes. He can't be plugged into your needs 100% of the time, and he will say things without thinking sometimes. The issue is then how often this happens and how it makes you feel. If it is happening too often you have an obligation to tell him what you need for him to do, don't bottle this up and resent yourself/him. - If he says dumb stuff very occasionally, suck it up and try to give him the benefit of the doubt. Freeze him out for a while if you have to, but please do your best and recognise men and women have different styles of communication and that men in general just don't get the female insecurity thing. Try and be kind and understand where he is coming from - it's generally not going to be as complex and as threatening as you might think. I struggle with all the above. I know what's rational and still choose the dark side occasionally. I guess the first responsibility you have is to try and do whatever it takes to get yourself in a secure position, where you are less vulnerable to your own negative self-talk, or your projected fears.
  6. caro33
    I don't really have anything new to add, I agree with the more recent posters re the unfairness of this to your current fiance and the strange short-sightedess you seem to be exhibiting. You sound like a smart guy, read over your posts again. How can there be any other solution than to walk away from the current fiancee? Does she value fidelity? Do you think she would walk if she found out about your cheating on her with the ex? I'm not saying to tell her, because if it would break her heart she doesn't need to know the sordid details. Just be kind and end this now. And what happens if you choose to commit to the ex-fiancee and she gets fat? What if she gets in an accident and you are not so attracted to her? How ridiculous that you can be talking about a lifelong commitment to someone who you say has little personality. How damning! We are talking about LIFELONG commitments here. And it's fine if you are not prepared to make one yet, or at all, but I wonder how you can contemplate making one you so obviously do not have the heart to believe in even now, when things are supposed to be rosy. Weddings get called off all the time - every day that passes makes this harder, you must bite the bullet NOW. I agree with Ellie, your statement that you wouldn't cheat on your wife with your ex sounds incongruous with your behaviour to date. If nothing else changes, I think you will find a way to have your cake and eat it. You may even kid yourself that you are doing your wife a 'favour' because at least you married her, and it was against your wishes. Surely you deserve some fun on the side, what she doesn't know won't hurt her... How do you see yourself, what sort of man do you want to be? Put yourself in the position of future you - how about in 2 months' time, how about 2 years' time. How about 20 years? What would you like to see, and do you see either path you are looking at right now (commitment to either woman) taking you there? I'm not trying to pitchfork you, but man, look at this from the outside if you can. It's just wrong, wrong, wrong, and I can't see how proceeding with the wedding while this stuff is there can in any way be the smart decision.
  7. caro33
    Yes maybe. Depends how organised/formal the event is. I guess the rule I would suggest is that whatever you do with this issue, make more effort for new girl. Yes, call original girl if you must, but you really should do what you can to be sure that if all your behaviour was transparent to both women, that: (a) original girl would be under no illusions re you having feelings for her, and that she knows you are taken, and (b) new girl knows she and her feelings, are your priority, and you have not taken the other girl's feelings more seriously than hers. Is there some part of you that still wants the original girl? Are you looking for a reason to get in touch? Or is there a part of you that wants to show off to the original girl that you are happy with someone else? If you have any of these feelings I would look hard at your motivations and ask if any of this stuff about both at the get-together is a good idea. If you don't feel like this, if your intentions are 'pure' as I mentioned above and original girl is old news and just a 'friend', and you want to make things work with new girl, then please just make sure no one can accuse you of behaviour that LOOKS like you have a foot in both camps. That means keeping it business-like with old girl while new girl is in the picture.
  8. caro33
    You're welcome, sorry I had to go, would have written back otherwise. What you are feeling (were feeling?) is all too familiar - do you set high standards for yourself in the rest of your life? The thing is, you can't change someone and while we all know that intellectually, it's hard telling our emotions and egos that. Not your role to make your girl change her value system, and by setting yourself up to do that you must know that you are setting yourself up for failure. That was what you were doing by hoping that somehow you'd 'break though'! The thing is also that I find it hurts much more to be the one who is told 'this isn't working' even when I was not far off saying the same thing. None of us like to feel rejected, even if it's contrary because we knew it wasn't working. I had a relationship a little like this a while ago, and was very hurt when I was told it wasn't working. Even though I'd been pretty sure I couldn't see us changing to become more compatible, I still didn't like being on the end of 'nah, I don't feel that strongly for you'. I had worked hard to make it happen even though I wasn't sure about the bloke involved. But I met my husband-to-be the same weekend that happened!
  9. caro33
    No offence to the men here, and I know people are different, but my experience tallies with this. Women need to tell men what they want, so make sure you help your guy, remind him about the impending important date rather than staying quiet and being upset he didn't remember on his own.
  10. caro33
    Well, I certainly understand your frustration about this, but I will come back to the slightly trite observation that people show love differently. You have noted this yourself and I know this sounds like a copout, but it's true. There have been people comment on this before, and some book has been mentioned (anyone?), but the upshot is that he might appreciate you enormously, but he might not see the value in the same things you do. If you sit down and think about it, what does he normally do to make you feel special? How does he like to demonstrate his love? Worth weighing up this one failure against his other behaviour patterns.
  11. caro33
    I'm sorry that you feel so low. I know it's no help to you right now, but from your original post it was clear that you were doing a lot for the relationship, but that you guys had different views about relationships and how they work. It's rotten being on the receiving end of this stuff, particularly when you tried so hard to do the right thing. However I think that from reading what you have been going through that you truly were not compatible. Good relationships are not about tip-toeing around the other person's ego and esteem issues. Look after yourself, take care. I swear to you that there's a woman out there who is waiting for you to pick yourself up, get past this, and get to meeting her already.
  12. caro33
    That's a tough one. If your motives are really as pure as they sound, then why not invite her. I do think you might want to ask the new girl what she thinks though - just say something like you'd love to take her, but an ex of yours will be there and you don't want her to feel weird about it, what does she want to do? Thing is, if you don't invite her you never know what she might hear later on, what conclusions she might come to re you trying to keep your options open with your ex. I say, be upfront, but don't make too big a deal of it. I would also prioritise the new girl over the old one in terms of what you say about the get-together and who you are taking. The ex made her choice about you already, she doesn't need any special information about your motivations here.
  13. caro33
    My situation was different, but I can relate. The lesson I learned is that unless you really change your approach this won't go away. You are training this guy to ignore your needs because you are also ignoring them. You are perhaps saying 'hey! this is a massive big deal to me, fix it or you're gone'. So he semi-fixes it, or does something that, in theory, should have made you walk. But you don't. So, to him, those original concerns of yours are just 'oh that's that aaa overreacting, what she doesn't see won't bug her'. And the cycle begins again. I was driven mad by my situation because I kept getting upset but not following through with a genuine statement of 'not good enough, fix it or I walk'. If that's how you feel you need to be clear. And I'm not saying all out leave him now, but if you are serious that you can't take this, then act serious. Pick yourself up and be unambiguous. The thing is, really, what if he knows the stakes and calls her anyway? I assume you would probably be afraid of this, and of losing him, which is why you aren't following through. I'm gonna get preachy here - from an objective viewpoint, why do you think you are worth this? I say, let him understand the consequences of his actions, and if he breaks the rule here, walk. You will not be happy for a period of time, but hey girl, at least you'll know where you stand, and you'll be closer to the day you find a guy who will be better aligned with your needs. So I don't have the answer, sorry. But I do ask you to try and value yourself from the outside. Be true to your own needs, because if you aren't, why should anyone else be?
  14. caro33
    For what it's worth, I believe there are are lots of great men out there, although I was less sure when I was single and was being treated poorly. I have to admit I also allowed myself to be treated poorly because I was so afraid that there was no one out there for me, so the guy who was dismissive and arrogant was still better than being alone forever. Unfortunately this is a self-fulfilling prophecy because it meant I wasn't available for the nice guys who WERE out there. I wish there was a way to transplant some hope through the internet, and I realise it sounds smug and flippant, but hang in there. Yes, we live in a consumer culture where bodies and sex are also just consumables, but just like women, many men still seek true intimacy and a real connection. It's perverse but kind of logical, I do believe that you tend to meet the best type of person for you when you are not looking. Give up, be quietly resigned to being alone and self-sufficient, and lo and behold, there's the person who loves you and is right for you.
  15. caro33
    I don't know about 'right' but I do think it's completely understandable and I would feel much the same way. I read here that you said you can't talk to him about this anymore, but I stand by my words in your other thread (yes I'm bouncing back and forth, sorry) - this needs to get sorted out. Don't kid yourself that you are being unreasonable, that the problem is something you can 'get over'. This is far more fundamental and deep-seated than that. The family you are marrying into says you're ugly? And that gets back to you? Now THAT is ugly. There is no excuse for this BS, none at all. You have every right, and I believe you have an obligation to yourself, to tell it like it is to him, and be prepared to walk away so he sees the size of this issue. I am not saying dump him but I am saying take some space if this can't get sorted - if it continues don't be afraid to say to him 'no, not good enough. MY future husband would not allow this to happen'. Let him work out the implications of that.
  16. caro33
    Hey come back anytime, so many of us have these times of doubt and need to share/vent/think it out, it's normal. If you have other stressors as well no wonder you have been questioning things. Glad it seems to be working out and I hope the test results are clear.
  17. caro33
    I do think that SOME people make concessions for bad behaviour because of looks, so that person who really values having some hot eye-candy on their arm when they go out may well not have high standards for intellectual conversation, sense of humour, politeness etc. I know someone at the moment who is putting up with some awful stuff from his g'f and the fact that she's considered hot by others probably is a factor for why he stays there, as well as not wanting to be alone. But I think it's no different from any of the factors of a relationship that people value when they see someone. Other people stay in relationships with partners who don't fulfil them intellectually but they make them laugh, or they cook for them, or they're great in bed. Depends what you value. I guess a number of people get their self-worth from having a good-looking partner. But to take Ellie's point, it's not everyone. Look at Halle Berry, look at all the other gorgeous people who get treated badly by their SOs. Perhaps in some instances the longevity of good-looking people's relationships are even shorter, as the people in the relationship are only there for looks, and looks fade, people get bored, people get replaced...
  18. caro33
    I wouldn't be too sure that you're being brushed off here, although it doesn't look like she has prioritised you highly. I have a friend who works long hours, and has so many (female) friends she catches up with that I, her best girlfriend, have to book ahead by weeks with her sometimes. I'm talking about her saying 'we should have lunch!' and I say 'yes! free tomorrow how does that sound?' and she then saying 'err...well I can do lunch in three weeks on the Thursday but only for half an hour'....Some people are just like that, they seem to get their energy from being around other people, and they surround themselves with this kind and are always in demand. I reckon your situation is too hard to call from the information available. God knows, she could be trying to do the 'Rules' thing and make you do all the chasing so you don't get sick of her. It's working, huh? Why not call her for another date and pay lots of attention to the signals you get then. Make it clear what your intentions are and see what happens.
  19. caro33
    Well, why not (as long as looks harmless)! Have fun and try not to worry, nothing for you to do now but see how things go. Good to see someone else who shares this timezone!
  20. caro33
    Sounds good so far; I also think it will all be fine.
  21. caro33
    I am a music fiend, and have been plugged into tape players/cd players/ipods since I could start picking my music. I don't know what this says about my maturity, but I never grow out of something I love, so I still love the stuff I did 20 years ago. I just keep collecting. My list of the best is actually kind of long, but the shortest shortlist is: Muse, old Queensryche, Lost Horizon, Duran Duran, Nevermore, Megadeth, Rimsky-Korsakov, Helloween, Sonata Arctica. Mostly power metal, what an embarrassing admission. Bombastic overblown stuff that excites me and gets me singing along (tunelessly).
  22. caro33
    My husband has the same amazing philosophy and I am deeply envious. His sheer lack of jealousy or freaking out over the past is the main reason, I think, that he's never understood that there was stuff he should not have shared. It's a pure and lovely way to be, but it drives me mad sometimes.
  23. caro33
    Do you really think you are pregnant? Can you go get a test?
  24. caro33
    I agree. But all the advice in the world sometimes can't help your natural reaction. I also torture myself on a regular basis with the information I have been given about his exes, one in particular. He lets things drop and doesn't even realise what he's said sometimes, and there I am, over-analysing, and storing the information away for future retrieval to roll around in my brain and make me insecure...I know all kinds of stuff about her and his relationship with her that I wish I could purge from my brain. I write the below with the provisio that you have done all you can to establish boundaries about exes and yet you are still upset over even reasonable and understandable references (like I am). I wish there was an easy answer, but I think it comes down to that awful cliche of thinking positive. By thinking about this stuff you are actively reinforcing those parts of your brain dedicated to fretting about exes and being insecure. You are enabling the problem to keep going, to get stronger. I think that the only thing that can help is positive self-affirmation along the lines of what people are saying, whatever works for you, and then just distract yourself when you start to get upset. Manage it, and don't be too hard on yourself, or him. These moments happen even when you're both doing your best; let it go and move past those times as swiftly as you can!
  25. caro33
    That's a long text! Good luck, and I hope you can find a compromise you're both comfortable with. I guess give him every chance to step up to the plate and demonstrate he's serious, but take note if you start to receive messages he's not.
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