caro33

Well I get some dumb celeb/diet women's mag sent to me because I changed electricity provider. It's free, compared to $8 per issue or so if I bought it. Now I'd never buy it, but's hey, this is free! If that's really the reason he got it, I would cut him some slack. If he wants to perve at ladies in underwear he can do it just about anywhere anyway. Try the local department store's lingerie advertising. At least this is not hardcore stuff he's signed up to. Maybe you can spirit the copy away when he gets it and he won't even notice.

So they've never met, and this is a recent thing. There's really no mitigating circumstance then, she has forged this recently and in full knowledge of what you would think, it seems. Maybe she thinks that if it's online it's not 'real' flirting? What does she say? Sounds like she's having a little break with reality here - has stuff been going on with her that she feels the need to share with someone? Sometimes planning a wedding can do that, can make people ask the very sensible questions of 'is this person right for me'. She's just chosen the wrong outlet. But with your wedding still pretty much on the distant horizon, I don't really pay this as a contributing circumstance either. How do you feel about her, about continuing the relationship and cementing this into 'until death do us part'? Do you believe in your heart of hearts that she has what it takes for you? Try and ignore your love for her child if you can when thinking about this, you must know it cannot be the sole reason you stay together - I would hope you could work something out...

No problem re responding, that's what we do here Sorry I can't be of help. Not sure if you want to keep talking about it, but why is this worrying you so much? Is it that you had your own unresolved feelings for him, or that you don't like an unresolved situation, or you are scared of your next interaction? Something else? Thing is, this looks really hard to predict in terms of what's going on. He might have all sorts of emotional issues you will never know about. Maybe you are the spitting image of someone he knew once, maybe he hears voices when he sees you. Who knows. Perhaps this is not for you to ever find out. Will you be okay if he never gets in contact again and you never find out what the story is?

Not that it's any excuse for being unpleasant to you, and it's certainly no excuse for cheating (or creating the 'pre-cheat' environment) but yes, maybe you are overwhelming her a little by having her as your sole social outlet. Irrespective of her issues and her treatment of you, it would seem a good idea to try and broaden your social circle. Re her thing with this guy, how do you know about it? How long has she known him and how did they meet? When are you planning to be married? One last question, when you said she is aggressive when you bring this up, and "spins things around" - what does she say? Having this info might help us (well, me) provide better focussed suggestions.

Hi lostnpain, sorry I have come late to your thread, and I may well repeat what has been said to this point by accident, but I am interested to know: - what makes you believe you were having an emotional affair? - what makes your wife think you were having one? Is it that you talked with the co-worker and had her over, or is there also something else your wife has said? - has your wife met this co-worker? Does your wife have a view that she's expressed re the co-worker being your 'type' - anything like that? - has there absolutely never been any history between you guys, ever, of someone not policing the relationship boundaries and the other getting upset? - is the behaviour you exhibited of making friends, talking to women (however platonic) a new thing for you? has your wife seen you bond with a woman other than her before?

I guess all I can do is agree that this sounds creepy! Besides being weird with you with the staring and the call/emails, what is he like? Does your child think he's weird? (he's your son's choir master?) When did you last email him?

Hi Paige, I was intrigued to know more about your situation so went back and read your posts. This seems to be a very odd state of affairs! As I have read it, the facts are: - you think he stared a you a lot and thought perhaps he has a thing for you - at an event, you asked to speak to him. he said to call him to discuss it, you called and he was nasty - you emailed him something you felt bad about afterward - he emailed you to warn you to not contact him again or he would start legal action - you sent an apology, but no legal action came about from the contact - since then you have written a few posts about love and getting over things, so it seems you have feelings for him - he emailed you again saying you look at HIM, and that you both know there's something there, and he cares for you - a mutual acquaintance seems to know there is some issue here but you don't know what he thinks he knows - you have now emailed him again As I said, this looks odd, although I may have gotten this wrong in parts. It's like a great potboiler romance re the drama but it's missing pieces and could just as easily be a whole obsession/infatuation, or a strange series of misunderstandings. There is perhaps a lot of information missing? Do you still think you love him? On what basis do you think you have these feelings? Do you think there is any chance he thinks you are the one staring at HIM? Although I admit I am not sure why he would keep turning around to check! Is he 'all there' mentally? Do you think he is behaving as a rational person would? In any event, I would stop writing emails. Please stop. It looks like both of you revert to emails to communicate, then all sorts of miscommunications arise. If this is a big deal to you, go and try to talk to him about what's happening. If he won't talk to you, like last time, you have your answer. It's not a great romance if one person will never speak directly to you. Also, the emails look dangerous. You have been threatened with legal action by a person whose rationality might be in doubt. Why put anything to paper, so to speak, in that environment?

Hmmm, I was in a situation very similar to this, except the one making the calls to the ex was also the one who wanted to marry me. I almost ended it a few times too, and in the end stayed but kept things proposal-free for as long as I thought was reasonable, then took the chance by letting him know it was okay. Issues flared up again for us some months later, and only then did I realise that no matter how clear I THOUGHT I had been on the matter of the ex, there still seemed to be some ambiguity for him. So we killed off the ambiguity, and went to counselling. Since then things have been fine, we were married in October. My point is that you MAY need to sit her down and tell her exactly what you are telling us. She may not be 'into him' but she might be choosing to put her head in the sand about what a big deal this is to you. She may well have justified some ongoing contact, with the view that she thinks it's 'safe' and what you don't know won't hurt you. Once my guy finally understood the stakes for us, he stopped. But it took ages, and it took the perspective of a third party to help him see the behaviour with the ex looked bad and wasn't appropriate. And this is someone who I can guarantee is 100% per cent into me, he is extremely good in every way except for this series of blips in our history. The 'ex' thing can just be more complicated than a straight out 'she's not over him, leave' situation. I would suggest total honesty from you, with a stated preparedness to walk, not just hold off a proposal. If she TRULY gets the significance of her behaviour with the ex and its effect on you, perhaps she will behave differently. If she doesn't see how this has affected you, or she continues to choose to not see, then I am all with AntiLove above.

I realise I came accross as a bit nasty, I certainly didn't mean to suggest you take pleasure from her sadness. But it also sounds like you have done all you can and she's still unhappy and unpleasant. Some people are just like this. I know that if someone upsets me in this kind of situation it helps me to think about where they are coming from, whether it's personal. If I realise they are not treating me different from others, and that they have their own issues, it helps me take things less personally and makes the comments sting less. I think Helen has a point, sounds like a good strategy. I wish you all the best, hope it is minimally painful, and I hope that she is able to surprise you (and herself!) by being a bit easier to handle. We may live in hope.

Is there ANYTHING she likes that you can use to help facilitate a relationship between her and your son? A restaurant you can take her to ("this is so expensive, I'm glad SOME people are happy wasting money"), a flower she likes ("who thought of these, you know they make me allergic"), eerr...yes. And people like that get nastier and more cantankerous as they get older, right about when you are expected to forgive them anything and look after them! A tough one, and all I can suggest is try and keep a detached perspective here - you're the happy one. You're the bright sunny one with the lovely family, the friends, oh and the youth also. She's alone, without her husband, no friends, probably scared, and too set in her ways to do a Scrooge and learn from Christmas future. She may well have nothing to look forward to in life - whe you really think about that, all its implications, how terrifying for her. Not that I'm saying she doesn't get what she deserves. You're being good making sure your son has some chance at a relationship, and that doesn't mean you have to put up with any BS from her. But keep in mind that no matter how awful she is, you are the one with all the power. You have her worked out, she has nothing on you. You get to go home to all that happy life she probably covets, all that companionship and youth.

Be brave: you only get one chance so don't avoid the big decisions because of fear. Not that I have learned to be brave yet.

Sounds like the whole thing has been poisoned to a large degree now, and I completely understand how you might be feeling. I'm not sure you're going to feel any better any time soon, to be honest. The questions people ask, the involvement, the painful conversations well-meaning people want to have with you about what you're planning and "are you excited?" just get worse. I was geting asked several times a day toward the date of my wedding and all I could do was grimace and nod. And that was a stress free wedding where everyone played well together, but you develop your own stresses about the commitment, the day going right etc. You need to be in a place of some emotional strength and comfort with everything to handle it comfortably. I think that if your guts are screaming 'no!' at this stage, listen to them. After what you've been put through on this, you have some credits to use here. You have every right to smile sweetly then just say that you guys are going to put all current plans on hold, forget about it for a while and enjoy each other. Shut anyone and everyone down who asks you, with a pleasant a "thanks for asking, we're not sure what we'll do but we'll let you know". Just give it time, get some space from this. Why not. You can get married whenever you want. No need to let selfish people suck the life out of it or ruin it for you. The (justified) doubts you have been having would also warrant it: take some mental time off this issue and then reevaluate.

Sure, weddings in particular bring out the worst in people sometimes, I reckon it taps into fears of all sorts for many people. On top of the stress for those getting married, possibly the parents can get freaked out about what it means for them ageing, for them 'losing' their child. There can be money problems no one wants to talk about, and value clashes that come up about the difference between a 'small wedding we can afford' and a huge sheh-bang that costs more money than anyone has imagined 'but hey, they'll remember it won't they'. Dislike or discomfort about who the person is going to marry comes on top of all that, and no doubt amplifies all the issues already there. And maybe there's a spectrum of 'usual' conflict through to wacky, ridiculous conflict. But your issue is a big deal to you. You have been told things you should not have been told, and you have come here. From what you have said, your conflict on this stuff seems deep seated and brings up issues of respect and priorities that need to be addressed. In an adult world you and your fiance might have niggled each other over whether you are REALLY close enough to Auntie Maureen to justify her coming to the wedding from interstate, or whether the calamari on a stick is better than the fish balls for serving at the reception. Maybe there would have been slight and brief tension over whether to get married in a garden or a church, spring or autumn. It should not have been your fiance and his parents rolling you completely on when to have the wedding, & delaying for a year based on what sounds to be spurious and selfish reasoning. The ONLY excuse I can come up with is maybe they have financial issues but are too proud to say so. Don't know how that explains your guy's wishy-washiness though.

It sounds like perhaps you are making excuses for the ex, and you have the common ego issues of the dumpee, who wants more than anything to be validated as worth it after all by the person who dumped you. Eh, we've probably all been there to some degree. You might have a lot to lose here, depends on your relationship with your current girl. Whatever you do, do not kid yourself that there is an justification in 'getting it out of your system' so to speak on the sly with the ex. Besides being terrifically hurtful to your current girl if she found out, it is a naive approach. It is a slippery slope, there will be no turning back. You may well not be able to stop there. Also ask yourself what this says about you. You are now setting down the behaviours of a lifetime. Honestly, if we call your proprosition what it is, which is cheating, do you want to always be 'that guy' that did that? Sorry if I sound harsh, and good on you for coming here. But please be honest with yourself on this one.

I agree with melrich in principle, but also imagine that this is a behaviour that is not going to listen to these kinds of arguments. I think this behaviour is a way of trying to exert control over the fear and uncertainty of being caught out again, where at least you won't be taken by surprise. It's addictive, or maybe a compulsion, and needs to be treated as such. At the least it's a bad habit that needs to be made more difficult to pursue. There is no easy answer - if you could stop cold turkey I imagine you wouldn't have come here for advice. It is the kind of thing that perhaps just takes you consciously commiting to change and making rules and roadblocks. What about: - Making it harder for yourself to check his stuff - make the links you have different, cause there to be a roadblock for yourself so that you can't just keep using automated behaviour. Maybe also check your own stuff less often - do you need to do this as much as you do? - Commit to only check his things every SECOND time you check yours, then every THIRD time, then maybe every week, every month. Over time you will not bother. - Commit to a time limit per session on a computer, so you don't actually have time to check his stuff as well as your own. - You could come clean to him, and ask him to change his passwords. To be honest, if he's cheating on you, he could be doing it right now and have nothing to do with his web accounts/emails. You need to be clear with yourself that checking these things to stay in control of knowing what he's up to is an illusion. You don't have this power. That's where the trust kicks in, unfortunately.

Wow this is a thorny issue. I kind of agree with everyone, which makes it a bit of a split personality kind of topic. I wouldn't presume to have the answer, but perhaps it's a matter of finding the safety valves in the relationship - finding through a clear consensus about priorities and an absolute trust a way of communicating when you're getting pushed too far. Then using that communication judiciously. What I'm thinking here is something like - "Darling I'm pleased we had that scheduling discussion the other day but I guess we can see that approach didn't quite work for us, it fell over. So while I don't think my requests of you were inappropriate, I think we need to find an alternative way to meet both of our needs. I can see how important this study is to you, and to us. I recognise that it is not permanent, however I need something from 'us' right now as well, and I am really struggling with the current priorities. What can I do to support you more in your work? Is there anything I can or should do that I am not? [have discussion] Okay, and for me, what I need from you is X. I understand these things shift sometimes but when they shift to the point that I don't see these needs being met at all, it gets very hard for me. We need to find a way for me to say to you directly when this is, and for you to commit to do your utmost at that time to recognise the situation and stop for a while to see how we can negotiate." [have discussion, perhaps decide what are 'dealbreaker' minimum standards and what are negotiable, clarify the parameters of negotiation] I dunno, but this stuff worked for me. The times we have had big issues, the only way of breaking through the frustration of not been listened to (for both of us) was to find codewords, and make a solemn promise to always abide by them, whether that means stopping whatever you are doing and paying very close attention when one person says it, or whether that means doing exactly what the other person says when they use the right language. It means trusting that this thing, whatever it is, is a truly massive deal to the other person whether you think so or not. You listen and if you do not immediately do what they say needs to be done, you at least commit to finding the closest alternative way to achieve what needs to happen. The key to this is a commitment to the partnership, to what's best for the other person, to listen when they show it's vital, and to really be definite in a promise to not overuse whatever you agreed above. I have said all this based on an assumption that something can give here from both sides. Maybe it's not fun, and not fair right now, but maybe you give up some nights to bed in order to get the weekly date cemented. Maybe you give him a week of obsessing then pull him back into line the next week, and you guys agree this. But I also think he can plan better, be more efficient, and prioritise differently. I have also been with a PhD candidate, saw him through the whole thing, and I have also done a PhD, while working full time. These things are all different I know, but I just don't believe he can't be a bit more focused on his relationship, and this means sometimes -de-focusing on the study.

Yes, and maybe have some plans in place for how you distract yourself, like exercise, call friends, read, watch your favourite comedy on DVD. I've seen a few people here strongly recommend hot showers for relieving this kind of anxiety. Whatever works for you! It really will get better with time, it's just one of those annoying things you need to get through slowly.

No! That's sounds bad, don't tell yourself that. You just have your needs, that doesn't make you needy in an objective sense. This stuff can be really hurtful, but often just needs a change in your own perspective to become manageable. But that takes time. Good luck, you guys will be able to find a way.

Well I guess I'm back to my original advice, sorry. You just can't make someone else prioritise you the way you want to be prioritised. If he just doesn't have the time, there's nothing you can do but suck it up and try to entertain yourself, or leave him. If he does have the time but you think he's not using it properly, you can tell him how you feel, and hope he's recognises the need to change. If this doesn't happen, you need a new plan. That's where giving up some time with him now to go do your thing, in order to help him see for himself that he needs to prioritise you better, is all i can think of. It's all I've got, sorry!

What a troubling state of affairs. He should have greater sensitivity to your needs. My thoughts on reading your first post were changed when I read this. I imagine he called her to ask out of good intentions, as others have said, and probably thought it was okay to go against your wishes because he meant well, he felt the situation was safe and perhaps he thought you were overreacting. But the above stuff shows a relationship that sounds stressful, at least it would be to me. She is crossing boundaries and he needs to police those boundaries. Part of that is not pushing the evelope on this issue by ignoring your requests when it comes to interaction with her. It's not like he couldn't have called a doctor or done a google search if he wanted to do some private research on your health condition.

I know this is really frustrating but I guess if it's not changing when you ask for it to change, there aren't many options to make more time. So my suggestion about doing more for you was pretty much to try and take your mind off it to some degree so you're less frustrated, and also, he might be far more inclined to make the effort if he sees it's not expected of him, it's not another obligation. If he sees you're happy on your own he might start to miss you a bit more and make an effort. If time with his sister is dead time for you, or close enough to it, what about sometimes doing the whole walk planning thing then coming up with an excuse at the last minute for something you wanted to do but 'forgot about'. Leave him to his sister. He may well spend that time with her thinking "where is my special blade_addict" and then come back and make more of an effort. The only other thing I can think is to make dates with him ahead of time, so you are scheduled and not just getting his time 'slops' if you know what I mean. I assume you've done that to some degree?

Yeah, and unless someone has a magic cure I'm not aware of, this is to be expected. It's your clever self preservation instincts kicking in! I think it's wise to listen to them sometimes, but when it gets destructive just try and put them in their place. Hopefully as each day passes and everything is okay you will settle back into a comfort zone and be less anxious.

Are you doing enough to meet your own needs? I know that when I am like the way you describe it tends to be because I am feeling frustration with my own life, and who knows, I'm hell when I'm hormonal. I was really cranky with my guy for his video game playing recently, REALLY cranky. Then I started using the computer for playing with photos I had taken, and spent hours and hours on it. I also started painting again. The roles were reversed - he's like "PUH-LEEZ can we go to sleep now" and I'm "errrr, just another 10 minutes". It wasn't revenge, it was just me starting to entertain myself. Is there anything you can do that can fulfil you on your own and perhaps take the pressure off?

I think what you are feeling sounds completely normal, but as such, not sure there's much you can do about it except try and be kind to yourself, and be true to your commitment to making things work. Sometimes that just means sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "LA LA LA LA" when the paranoid internal voices start up. You had a shock, only time will start to rebuild your faith that the rug won't be pulled out with no notice. No help at all, sorry.

Well I wouldn't be so hard on myself if I was you! Some of us need processing time, it sounds like you might be one of those. Like I said, I try to accommodate what I have heard, and it then takes a little while for how I really feel to settle in, after I have taken everything into account. I can imagine that if someone's been really nasty to you and then come up with a bunch of apparently heartfelt apologies, you had some real 'material' to get your head around, to have different parts of you have a little discussion, like: "that comment really sucked, I cannot believe they said that" "is it true? Am I like that? What have I done to bring this about?" "if that person could say that about me, perhaps everyone thinks it" "how outrageous, I am never speaking to them again" "oh look, they're sorry, perhaps they had a brain fart when they said what they said. I would like to forgive them so there are no negative feelings" "I don't think you can unring that bell, it's out there and our relationship has changed" "are they apologising because they want to get back in my good books for some other reason?" "do they still quietly think this about me?" "it doesn't matter what they thought, it was unforgiveable bad manners and hugely disrespectful for them to say it like they did" "maybe I'll feel better about this in a while, I shouldn't act now" Well, that's an example the stuff I would think. It takes time for all the viewpoints to have their say, and for some to cancel each other out. Maybe after a while you just get left with "it doesn't matter what they thought, it was unforgiveable bad manners and hugely disrespectful for them to say it like they did". I think that you should do what feels right to you in that residual way, that is, once all the emotion has been leached out over time. Trust yourself and your own thought processes. Perhaps you just cut off ties, that's what I would do. I actually had a friend at work go nasty and psycho on me a few months ago, and for me that was it. However I have been winding back over time, so there's little chance of another psycho episode because I am 'ignoring her'. Yes, I got the apologies, but after all of that I still feel trepidation when I am around her, and I avoid her if I can. That's the sign to call it a day!