caro33

Good for you girl, come back anytime and let us know how you're doing!

Can certainly see where you are coming from and why you might be feeling insecure. He sounds like he's not a bad guy (and from your past posts he sounds like he's pretty decent) but maybe he's not that into showing affection? In addition, perhaps he's a bit socially awkward. I haven't read anything from you that shows him to be shady or odd, or genuinely non committed, his behaviour could go either way. So it's hard to tell how this reflects on his commitment to you without understanding if this is just how he is with you, or if it's his personality. Are there past stories you've heard that could shed light on what he's like when he's been with other women, or what he says about you etc? Are there other friends of his, family, girlfriends of his mates you could talk to (but carefully, naturally)? Perhaps they will say, 'oh yeah, he's always been funny like that, but we can tell he's really into you' etc. Perhaps they will tell you something else that cements a view that he's not as committed as you wish he was, in which case you have a difficult decision ahead. The thing is, it depends how important all this is to you. Maybe he's decent, socially awkward AND committed to you, but maybe you need more than that, such as for him to be more inclusive of you in his plans, and for him to be more obviously affectionate. And that's fair enough, we all have our own needs. You then need to be sure you've communicated your needs to him, and made some effort to understand his needs. If he's not going to be able to be what you need, perhaps you need to move on. If you feel you love him too much and need to stay, maybe you just need to then adjust your own expectations of him.

I am also with Rabican. I think the world is full of people who tell themselves they are sexually adventurous and isn't that great that they want to share their beds, and they have an open attitude to other people, but rarely does it work out in reality without someone getting hurt. Jealousy and fear of being replaced by someone else are all too real, and I think there is always one person who isn't really into it as much but says they are so they look open-minded and cool to the other person. Why risk it?

I could be completely wrong, but does she look up to you? Would she think you would disapprove of her ditching class? If she is a bit insecure about what you think of her, I can see why she's be less than honest about the above two instances. This might also apply to some of those other 'little' lies you refer to - would this make sense at all? I'm not saying it's good, but it's not necessarily a sign that you can't have a relationship with her under any circumstances. If you don't mind me asking, how old is she? The cybersex issue is harder to rationalise. Yeah it could have been old and she could have been deleting it, and hey, why not read it again before deleting it. I probably would and it wouldn't in any way reflect badly on my feelings for my current partner. But why did it still have to come up on the screen? That's just careless! This would be something that would make me monitor her for a little while. Basically I am not so much from the 'if you don't trust you have no relationship' school. I think there can be shades of grey. Yes a proper relationship requires trust, but sometimes you just need to keep an eye on things to see whether there is an issue or not. I certainly wouldn't advocate sticking around forever where you fundamentally don't trust someone, but in the early stages I think it's okay to take your time to make up your mind.

Hi there Clementyne I can relate to some degree to what you're saying, and I wish there was some easy answer for you. But the only solution I can propose is to do whatever you can to gain some perspective. You sound like you are (to some degree) making it look to your boyfriend like your world hinges on him. This IS unattractive to most people, as it would probably be unattractive to you if the roles were reversed. He may well have given you the benefit of the doubt and perhaps he's not yet aware of your feelings - but your own worries here need addressing anyway. It's not fun feeling dependent on someone, and it's always dangerous to attach too much of your happiness to others' everyday actions. Have you been able to just do your own thing around him, to just say, 'sorry honey, i have made plans for XX date, how about we speak/catch up another time', whatever the appropriate example is? I know it sounds trite and a little game playing, but you need to demonstrate to him (and yourself) that you have your own life, and can cope very well without him if you need to. That doesn't mean you don't love him or want to be with him, but that you have prioritised other things also. Perhaps you might want to: (a) Speak to a counsellor if you are feeling anxious and need to talk to someone in person and understand what's going on. A disinterested third party might be just what you need to give help you gain perspective. (b) Investigate the things you might do that would make you feel good without him, like take up dancing or language classes alone or with your friends. Take up a sport, art, whatever excites you, but make it regular, make it all yours, and make it a promise to yourself to be doing that thing at specified times when you are not going to be available to your boyfriend. Make some goals and work to attain them. © Monitor your own internal dialogue on this issue. When he wants to leave and you react emotionally, what do you think you believe at that very moment? Is there anything you could tell yourself, or that he could say to you that would defuse the situation for you? Perhaps you can start to train yourself to think differently (ie, "i know he loves me, he is not rejecting me right now"), and perhaps you could let him help you too by asking him to kiss you before he goes, or whatever would seem normal but comforting to you. But hey, most of us overreact sometimes, try not to worry about it too much. I think the key is probably to watch your own triggers and see what you can do to re-programme your thinking. The human brain is great, just by repeating things to yourself you can make yourself believe them.

I'm with kalshane here. This sounds as though she isn't prioritising you as you believe you should be prioritised as her boyfriend. So, yes, talk to her about it. It's not a matter of right or wrong, but how you feel, and she should know how her behaviour affects you. But here's the bad news - it sounds like she's not that into you. If she was, she would be making time to see you, not planning work for when you're free, and not frequently brushing you off to do other things. She'd be taking your calls, or at least returning them if she missed your call. Maybe you are being too clingy for her? Maybe she is feeling crowded, maybe she's having second thoughts. To give her a break, maybe she's just a bit selfish and clueless and doesn't even realise what she's doing. Maybe she'll be apologetic, change her behaviour, and you will feel better. Only she can explain it. Personally, I read the attention to Mike more as symptom, not the cause of the problem. So yeah, please talk to her, you are not being unreasonable. If you are calm and open in how you approach this, and put things in terms of 'when this happens I feel like that' rather than 'you did that to me' you have a better chance of getting through.

Hi there, I have a few questions for you: - How does your jealousy manifest itself? What do you feel, what do you do, and what triggers it? - How did your last relationship end? - Why do you think it's been so long between 'in love' relationships for you? Have you had other relationships though? - What are the things that have been causing alarm bells for you in your current relationship? I would assume that your fear of loss is what's setting you off here, as you have recognised. However I don't want to enter further opinion without knowing more about your situation. Depends on your situation, but I think there can certainly be light at the end of the tunnel. Feeling threatened is something that can be addressed, and, hopefully, resolved over time. A counsellor should be of real help, perhaps you just need some tools to adjust your perceptions of risk and the consequences of being vulnerable to someone. Not easy but certainly manageable.

It's hard to describe, but it's just not my style at all. I am kind of super protective of my relationship and don't like sharing it with other people. No idea why, and I understand the privacy argument sounds weird if you aren't like that as well. Even if no one sees the picture, I feel that it's just not me to do that. Please give him a break on this one, it sounds like a personality difference, that's all. How are all those other issues going by the way, have you been feeling at all better about things other than this? Did he go to the bachelor party?

So how on earth does she rationalise the not coming home? Could it be that her values are that different to yours and you hadn't picked up on that? What if you had done the same thing to her? You have some issues here that are far more than merely having a friend of the opposite sex: 1. She stayed out all night and didn't tell you that (a) she was going to, or (b) where she was. This is pretty poor regardless of who she was with or where she was. 2. She did the above with a guy, which most people would find inappropriate given #1 above. And it's not like they are old friends and you have been given the chance to get to know him or trust him. 3. The guy she stayed out with seems to have been prioritised too highly for your comfort in general (eg the contact after work, the messaging). 4. She allows him to disrespect the relationship by saying things in messages to get a rise out of you (assuming she's telling the truth on that). When you enter into a committed relationship, part of that commitment is to protect your relationship, and to build walls against those forces that might endanger it. She is not doing that, she appears to be inviting the threats in. And you have children! What if there had been an emergency that night she was out and you couldn't get in contact? I think her behaviour is irresponsible and she needs to get a grip about what is acceptable behaviour. Have you had a more calm conversation about your relationship generally and what each of you need? It is fair enough for you to state your needs and state what is acceptable to you. She might also have needs she feels you aren't fulfilling, which is partially why she's rebelling like this. You don't have to agree with her but it might help you understand the situation better and find a way to engage with one another. It seems you need to negotiate an outcome here that's separate from those painful 'you shouldn't do that, it's wrong' versus 'no it's not wrong, you're paranoid, trust me' type arguments.

I agree with syrix, the education aspect is important. It can add immense value to your prospects and open up all sorts of doors. I dropped out of Uni the first time around, stuffed around for a while, then went back when i was 21 and started again in a different degree, taking it through to post grad. I don't think i had any idea what I wanted to do until then, and even then it changed a lot. But I went from working in a call centre as a shift worker to a series of much more challenging policy roles in government and major companies where people take me seriously and I get to exercise my brain. And of course the pay is many times better. Once you've found what turns you on and pursued it (and obviously it doesn't have to be study or travel, can be anything), nothing can take that away from you. It puts some of those frustrating relationships in their place. Anyway, am sounding like some kind of travel/study zealot so will stop now syrix, actually I know very little about Croatia, but I had a crush on a Croatian guy once and read up all about his country so i could have some insight into his background. Apparently your landscape/beaches are spectacular!

Some people like to show off their pictures/personal tastes and invite comments, and others don't. It's a personal approach and depends on the attitude toward privacy. I am definitely in the latter category - I hate people knowing things about me unless I have specifically involved them in my life. I wouldn't have a picture of anything that mattered to me on my phone (or anywhere else that's taken publicly) for all to see, just because I'm private. Even if my fiance wanted me to have a photo of him on my phone as wallpaper (which sounds a bit insecure, sorry) I wouldn't, and it wouldn't in any way signify any less a love for him. I like annie's idea, the drooling one. That's great.

I completely agree. The out all night aspect is fundamentally disrespectful, and all the more galling that she's out with some guy who she's behaving oddly about. This is no ordinary friendship, and whether they have become physical or not (yet), it is a definite threat to the relationship. She is behaving appallingly.

Your statements about your fiancé and his daughter are clear and sensible, and your concerns about his capacity to be a mature father - and how you might fit into this equation – seem fully justified. This would seem to be your major indicator of his ability to be the man you need and expect as a future husband. If you accidentally got pregnant and kept the child, you would probably find yourself trapped in a frustrating and fragile existence that you and your child would not deserve. Or you could go the other route and find yourself alone and without support at a traumatic and painful time. This issue, along with the jail time, the past problems, the lack of self-control, and the lack of adult responsibility in general combine to a big fat OH NO DON'T DO IT, RUN, RUN AWAY for me. That's always easy to say I know, but your life can amount to so much more… Here's another warning tale for you - I have a friend who stayed with a guy like your's and mine (ex) and they stuck it out for 13 years. She fell pregnant by accident, and now has a 2 year old. This friend of mine is now going through a divorce because the whole situation became untenable, her husband was a big child-man who seemed to actually resent his obligations and responsibilities, and drove my friend nuts. She couldn't rely on him for anything, and he continually let her down, particularly once they became parents. He decided in the past couple of years to become a producer in the entertainment industry (ads, movies), and put his job first. He would never be there for child minding when he said he would, and then accuse her of not supporting HIM when he chose to do 70 hour weeks in distant locations and would only tell her the morning he was leaving. Keep in mind she's trying to hold down a job too, as well as care for their daughter and make sure she is looked after by someone. He would become petulant when she took him to task, and there was some violence in recent years. Now he is a 'nice guy', but has no coping mechanisms and just wasn't up to being there as a husband and father. He never 'got better', or at least, never in that fundamental way. He crumbled when he had to deliver on his promises, and then tried to blame everyone else. Like your guy, he also prides himself on being a good father, as long as it's on his terms; that is, when he doesn't want to play on his computer, work, socialise, etc. His daughter is a baby, and is always pleased to see him, which he takes as a sign he's a good man and great dad. (He's deeply insecure, I think he knows the truth at heart and hates himself for it, as well as hating my friend for 'making him feel that way'.) My friend was heartbroken in Feb this year when it ended (he left, but she also pushed him out because the stress had gotten to her) and he swiftly took up with another woman. But now she is just angry, embarrassed and shocked. She loves her daughter dearly and doesn't regret having her, but she also cannot believe she stayed with the loser guy so long. So what if he was fun at parties and loved her – people like this don't even love themselves, so their 'love' for others is also fragile. Their love for others is also fleeting when they start to do better for themselves – it's a somewhat superficial existence where the partner is really like a life crutch that gets used, resented and is never immune from being tossed away when the person feels more confident. My friend is nearing 40 now and has her own insecurities about her value on the relationship market. I think she is also punishing herself for not having more faith in herself way back when, and pursuing a different life when she had the chance. Back to you - re the timeframe, I don't know. I guess months? Perhaps 6 months, with a solid review at 3 months? If you don't give him some decent time you might find that when the date arrives you are tempted to give it 'just a bit longer' and then it drags on and you then tell yourself you didn't need a date really, hey he's not so bad, and sink back into accepting the situation. If you give it 6 months there are no excuses, and 6 months is still not much compared to the rest of your life. Are there any major milestones for you around then that you can staple this decision to? If I was you in an ideal world (ie no financial constraints, anything stopping you/me), I would try and put my life first, and work toward my own goal or personal project, whether it be further study, travel, or both. I would try to get away from my home town/county for a while in any event, to get some headspace. I would then slot the fiancé decision into that, perhaps for when I left, or when I returned. With you progressing your own life like this, the whole thing is less likely to be all about him and your (potential) loss. You might get a better sense of all you will gain by being on your own to meet people and be in places that truly are worthy of you. Yes, I'm in Melbourne, Australia. I've been to a few places but wish I had travelled more. I was never brave enough, always nervous and putting other things first. Now I'm older I regret not just doing these things when I had the chance. Took myself to London, Paris, Barcelona a couple of years ago…Amazing. Just being there, in the cradle of western history, is mindblowing. Even the graffiti at some of the sites is 1000 years old, I love that. It's hard to take yourself so seriously when you are travelling, and I found it was a great way to take stock and truly try on for size (even if in imagination only) the different life choices I could make.

I agree with most of the above sentiments, except 'dump him immediately'. And it sounds like the poor girl can't win, and she is the only one who entered this situation in good faith. She might not even like your boyfriend. She might be gay and fancy you, she might think you are all a waste of time and be plotting her escape. Whatever. The floozy comment may well have been a kind attempt to stay cool but show she likes you. Some people just don't engage in the whole 'oh no, you're not like that at all, oh my, i think you're great' insecure people's conversation currency. Yes your guy sounds like he's revving you up, and you are completely falling for it. I agree I would hate it too, but the situation here is about how you handle yourself now, not what the housemate does. And what can you ask your b/f to do? All I can suggest is that you admit perhaps you both made a mistake by pretending this situation would be okay, admit to some discomfort (if you are going to be honest) and say that he shouldn't play you off. Then go do your own thing.

I agree with the others who have posted. Sorry, but 23 is young for a guy, and the age gap is also probably on his mind. Maybe he's hoping his feelings change and he's waiting until they do. Maybe he's just sticking it out with you until 'something better comes along'. I saw a 26 year old guy when I was 31, and I thought he was really into me. Then one night he said something about my age and how he never saw himself with an 'older woman' but he wanted to keep seeing me. I had never felt old in my life until then; that hopeless feeling of somehow being out of the running, judged inadequate, when you feel great and at your best... The funny thing is we ended up breaking up because he 'felt pressure' to settle down with me, although I had been quite happy to keep up the casual relationship thing with no commitment (actually I was selling myself short but that's another story). I think the pressure he felt was his own perception that a woman my age would be out to settle down and breed in the next couple of years, and he didn't want to do that. Your guy may well be vacillating because he is scared that he's not going to want the same things as you in the same timeframe. Maybe he's not ready to give up all those other 23 year old (or younger/older) girls for just you. It sounds like it. A word of warning: the world is full of women who stuck it out with guys who didn't really want to settle down, in the vain hope that the guy's values and goals would change. Many of these women hit their late 30s and find themselves no closer to what they wanted, but their fertility has dropped dramatically. Men get to wait, we don't. There's always a risk in sticking it out and expecting someone to turn into what you wish they were. However having said that, I don't think 7 months is terribly long, and the age thing might also be not so relevant. What is more damning is that he's already acting shady, such as that date the others refer to. That in itself speaks volumes. If you're going to wait for someone to come to the party re serious commitment, they should at least give you every reason to believe they are keen and willing to try.

engagedkitty you are welcome. I wish you much happiness. I have to say though, that the information you posted about your guy's (lack of) responsibility for his child screams problems to me. This could be your future with your own child we're talking about here – there may well be a corollary to this in your own future with him. He's just not ready for a commitment to anyone yet it seems, including himself. Perhaps he won't be ever, or at least for a long time. Will you please do me a favour and set yourself a time frame? Say, 'if I am not happy with this situation by X date, I will walk', and then define to yourself what being 'happy' with the situation means. It might include: - I believe I can trust him not to let himself down around alcohol - I believe I can trust him around other women, where he will not be disrespectful, hit on them, or appear to hit on them under any circumstances - I believe I can trust him to keep control of himself, understand the consequences of his actions, and not end up in jail - I am comfortable that he is stepping up to the financial responsibility of his daughter and appreciating his mother's care of his child - I believe he is committed to doing what is necessary to improve his career/job opportunities to take care of his current and future responsibilities - I trust that he will make his own decisions, even in the face of others' opinions - I trust he will always take my opinion seriously, but be able to have a meaningful argument if he feels differently - I believe he is capable (and interested) to make time to discuss important issues with me, and to add value to my own decision-making You will need to come up with your own signs of worthiness, this was my front of mind stuff. Perhaps just going through this exercise will help consolidate what it is you need to look for, and help you know, when the time has come, whether you are seeing it or not. If you think the answers to some or all of the above are 'no' but are prepared to live with that, ask yourself what you would say to a friend, or family member you love, if they said to you 'I am planning to marry a man who I can't trust [fill in issue], what do you think?'. If you truly put yourself in a bystander's shoes, how do you feel? I continued to ride through my discomfort on that, and it's not a good idea. The whole 'but you're not in this relationship, you don't see him when he's alone with me, he really is a good person' excuse I used to use came up pretty short in the end. And it's even more embarrassing now I have met great men since the ex, who would never dream of getting themselves in these dodgy situations and having their women doubt them. Self-respect and all… Get in touch any time you like, and hey, I have plenty more of the dumb ex stories if you want more material! A final suggestion: perhaps you could go travelling, see the world. Save up and travel around Asia, see the beaches of Croatia, the ruins in Rome, the castles in Germany, the lavender fields in France, pull beers in Edinburgh to top up your funds, backpack around South America etc (I've assumed you're in the US for some reason). So many options. It's inspiring, life changing, perspective and space giving. An awesome experience, especially when you're young enough to enjoy it, are not tied down etc. What do you think? You can come back and then take a completely different view of your place in the world and your life options, including your guy.

Thanks guys, that's really nice of you. I was afraid I had overdone it with the long post(s)! The embarrassing thing is that as I went back in time, heaps of things came back to me, some after I had submitted my post. Some were a really big deal too, so it amazes me that I had so thoroughly rationalised that behaviour and allowed myself to stay there. Just because he was sweet and he thought he loved me! The habits you get into like my habit with that relationship are a bit toxic, but it's like the frog in boiling water example people use sometimes, where if you have boiling water and drop a frog into it, the frog will hop straight out. However if you pop the frog into room temperature water and bring it to the boil slowly, the frog will just stay there. Al Gore mentioned this in his doco about climate change, but it works for those of us in toxic relationships too. So those others of us reading posts on enotalone, or hearing about our other friends' relationship woes say 'what the hell! jump out of the water! it's boiling!' but those of us who have been in the pot all along (eg the original poster in most cases, the person who's living the relationship) are instead struggling to rationalise the situation: 'the water's not THAT hot, you're not in here with me to know, and hey it was cool a while ago'. I now look at the me who was with the 10 year ex and think 'what on earth was I thinking', but I have the sneaking suspicion that the younger me would always make those same choices. If the person is nice enough and appears to want to please you, and keeps saying things were 'mistakes', you want to give them the benefit of the doubt. You forgive each mistake and justify it because it was always a slightly different issue, and surely that same thing won't happen again....It took ages for me to realise that it's not about any one situation and its details; really dumb stuff that happens frequently is ITSELF the red flag about a person's maturity, stability, decision-making capability, and ability to follow through on their commitments. But the really scary thing is that I never realised that when I was with the ex - if he'd come back to me in those first few months I would have taken him back. To this day I thank whatever forces were responsible for saving me from that life of compromise and relationship mediocrity (and who know what else as time went on and our responsibilities increased). engagedkitty, I hope I am not sounding lecturing or using the age thing too much with you. Once again, my issues are my issues, and don't necessarily relate to yours. However, if there's any more help I can give, please let me know.

I feel for you with this one, it's hard, and it's particularly so when your guy is nice and seems to want to change to please you. But yes, you need to try and ignore than as best you can, because the real issue is if he has got what it takes to be a good life partner for you. If you are really unsure about this I strongly suggest you at least delay the wedding. And by a 'good life partner' I mean those things I mentioned before – can he step up to the plate when he needs to, can you trust him to be his own man, one you can respect and rely on? Believe me, when life's pressures kick in later on, the fact that he is 'nice' is not enough. Someone who shirks responsibility is really not someone you should be making long term plans with. Maybe he'll change, maybe he won't. You asked about the dumb things my ex did. There were so many! Yes, there were women involved; to my knowledge there were three or so, and each thing happened in some less than full on cheating way, where the rules seemed blurry to him and there were friends pushing him and/or distance from me. • There was the New Year's Eve night when he was 21, where he took off with his friends to a beach 4 hours away even though we had plans (they 'made him', he 'didn't have time to call', I was 'at work anyway') and made out with some girl (but he 'was drunk!', 'at least he didn't sleep with her', 'she made him') • There was the time, at 22 or so (a few weeks after he had proclaimed undying love) that he then shut me out, didn't come and see me or call, when he took up with the resident town bike girl for a few wild nights. He was introduced to her by this friend of his who was trying to lead him astray. I didn't find out about that for a year or so, when I was told he 'was drunk!', she 'took advantage of him!', we were 'on a break!' (not that I knew it at the time). • This close male friend from the above situations was bi-sexual and also a nasty piece of work who tried to get it on with my ex's sisters and all his girlfriends (incl me). One night this friend also tried it on with my ex, and some strange things seemed to happen. In my house, with me in the next room. But 'nothing happened' apparently, even though he was 'confused about his sexuality' and 'was drunk'. He denied this entire event took place later on. • He went overseas hiking for 6 months and sent me letters about a girl there he was in love with. Oops. He denied the whole thing once he got back, and I had thrown out the letters. He was experiencing a whole 'going beyond yourself' heart of darkness thing in the jungle apparently, and couldn't be held responsible. • He had to stay an hour away from me for two years while he was studying at a regional Uni campus, when he got a little too close to a girl there. Same excuses as above. And even once we'd cleared all that up and had moved on, he still acted funny about it and I think something was amiss. I think he couldn't bring himself to tell her he was back with me… He cleaned up his act re the girls (and the guy) after those first two years, and we stopped with the one and off relationship cycle. He also stopped the drinking and became serious about life, including cutting off contact with some of the people who were terrible influences on him. I took him back once and for all, because he was a nice guy and he meant well… But the next 8 years were still punctuated with dumb stuff, just more of the frustrating domestic variety. He couldn't pick up after himself, organise himself, or take the initiative on anything. He was very hobby oriented, where he'd get obsessed with something, then drop it and start something else. Science fiction books, tropical fish keeping, weight lifting, planning for our marriage, and ultimately mountain biking. He did his PhD and obsessed about that for a while. He was good at procrastinating so heavily that the eventual costs of managing a situation he could have dealt with earlier would be ten times what he'd delayed in the first place. I'm talking money here, lots of money, and time spent. Whether it was car maintenance, bills, moving house etc. This all led to lots of stress for me. We'd have arguments where he'd say the thing I wanted him/us to do didn't need to be done (because apparently the more you plan for things the more likely something will go wrong), and then eventually, many hours/dollars etc later, he'd be all sheepish and say I was right all along. There's no pleasure in that, in fact it's extremely frustrating. I couldn't understand why he couldn't just internalise the need to do what needed to be done in the first place. I also found myself in a kind of mother/counsellor position. I would talk him through every decision he had to make, and supported him constantly. He was often grateful, and seemed to 'get' an issue after we'd talked about it (a lot, and frequently after the arguments as above), but as I said before, he wasn't too good at applying those learnings ever again in a broader sense. When I needed support or advice he was no help to me whatsoever. He just didn't think about things or have any internal decision-making framework of his own. It ended suddenly, when he announced one night that he didn't want to be in a relationship anymore, he wanted to concentrate on his mountain biking. Why did he leave? I'm not sure. He may have met someone else, I think this played a part. He had also completed his PhD a year ago, and I was one year into mine. He was over that whole intense study thing, bored at work and didn't want to support me doing my own research (I was working, I mean provide emotional support). He was very narcissistic and I think wanted to spend more time admiring himself in the mirror (he'd gone from scrawny and insecure to muscly and cocky). I had put on a few kilos and was having a hard time at work, I think I may have not adhered to his views of the type of girl a sexy sports guy like him should be with. Funny, when I gave him back the engagement ring he seemed shocked, and said he didn't regret asking me to marry him. To this day I don't understand that. I presume he had no idea what marriage really meant if he could stick by his decision to get engaged but also leave me when he felt like concentrating on his mountain biking… After I asked him to move out (he didn't even realise he should, although he said unforgivable things to me), he came by to pick up his stuff a couple of times. He never explained what happened, and we never spoke again. Ten years shared and we never spoke again! I was deeply, deeply, upset. But, you know what? I was not really surprised. I knew he was flakey and I knew he couldn't really be relied upon. I think that's why I also never called him (as well as me being terrified I'd hear something I couldn't deal with). Why did I stick around in that relationship? I loved him. When I was 19-20 I was just so happy to meet a nice guy, and I also had little relationship experience to compare it to. I was probably immature for that age, but I don't know. I just didn't know myself and my needs, and what is acceptable in the adult world like I do now. I would never enter into such a relationship now, but when I was younger I just felt so lucky to not be alone. And he was cute too *sigh*. As the years went by, I couldn't see myself with anyone else. It seemed we were destined. All that time, even through the breaks, I never so much as kissed someone else. And we had great times! We laughed and laughed, and he seemed to get me and not judge me. I could be as coarse or funny or smart or stupid (or anything) as I wanted, and I felt accepted. As you know, that's rare, and mighty enticing to use as a reason to stick around. So that's my long, boring story. By the way, I am getting married in two weeks. Met a wonderful man a year and a half ago, who has incredible integrity and is not the least bit flakey. Wow. And he also 'gets' me, can have a huge laugh with me, and can give me advice AS WELL.

I can't work out how to multi-quote so sorry for the unwieldy response. - I didn't mean to insult you with the comment about you putting aside the big issues, I apologise. I was just trying to get at the fact that you want to give him a chance even though other posters here have been explicit re walking away. But it's always easy to be objective and much more challenging to live these situations, so no judgement here from me about your approach. - I think people can learn from their mistakes, but a weak character is a weak character. Our character is the fundamental aspect of who we are, and I agree with the above poster that this type of thing generally doesn't change except in the most extreme circumstances, such as a major loss, illness etc. And people's behaviour can change incrementally as they age of course. But a major shift in a short time based on guilt and trying to keep a girlfriend happy is less likely. The issue I am trying to explain here is that it's not about if he now realises what he did was wrong, or how sorry he is. The fact that it happened at all, and let's even put aside her age (as he didn't know it), means he is easily led, and has poor judgement. These are facts. I ask you, do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that in a completely different situation - one he can't predict and one you can't warn him about ahead of time - could you trust him to 'do the right thing' whatever that is? Does he have the moral compass within himself to do the right thing AT THE TIME IT'S REQUIRED? If you believe he does (and don't just want to believe) then you have decided to stay and forgive all this stuff. That's fine, your decision, but you then need to decide to move on from your concerns also and cease the worry because that's not fair on him or you. - I agree here's no guarantee about anyone, but there are fundamental red flags about a person's basic personality, and there are situational red flags about stuff that went wrong where there might have been misunderstanding. As you can see from the above, I would like you to put aside the situational 'facts of the case' and see this as a personality issue. That IS a big deal, and worthy of serious analysis quite apart from what's happened in this particular situation. At the risk of completely overdoing this post, I'll tell you a little more about my ex, in case it helps. I got together with my ex when I was 19, and loved him to bits. He loved me also, but was flakey and unsure of himself. So he was easily led by who he was hanging out with, and made lots of mistakes. He was always really sorry about what he did and was able to move on, but the fact is that he never really 'got it', because he was only able to exercise better judgement in something ONCE HE'D ALREADY STUFFED IT UP. He didn't have the backbone or moral compass to apply a general rule, or act with his own integrity. I always got the impression that deep down he thought things happened TO him (so his mistakes were 'bad luck', or he 'didn't know' something most people would have assumed etc) and that he had no direction and power of his own. This meant that he never really took responsibility, although when he knew how I felt about things he was very good at parroting back to me what he thought I wanted to hear. I also remember that we never had any really challenging conversations. I am kind of feisty and intense and he was a bit sooky and unimaginative. He agreed with me, or when he felt rebellious, he argued with me for the hell of it. There were no truly informed debates, and I rarely came away from a conversation having seen a new perspective. The scary thing is that when I was 19-20 and starting the relationship with him, I really noticed this. Over subsequent years I kind of stopped noticing. He was comfortable and sweet, so I felt that was 'enough'. I also thought those things were enough for me to just have to deal with his dumb mistakes about things (like your guy's recent problem). I didn't notice how much the compromises built up until it was over and I was MORTIFIED. The statements can always be made 'but my case is different', 'but my guy isn't so bad', and hey, that's fair enough. None of us can truly affect your course of action or give you a real comparison you can trust; we all need to tread our own path in life. But I implore you to ask yourself what kind of person he is, not just if he's nice to you. 'Catering' to you, as you noted he does, is not actually that good either. You're a smart girl and you know it. At the risk of being presumptuous, I will suggest that you need someone who will not always cater to you, who will be good to you but also challenge you, and someone who you know you can leave in any situation and he won't let himself or you down. Can you say that about your current guy?

I don't have anything that can help i'm afraid, this is just going to feel awful for a while. No easy way to manage this. But hang in there, it will get better. Good for you for stepping up and trying, this shows what a good and strong man you are. It must be so hard to have to be there for her while you are dealing with your own grief about the relationship you thought you had. Is there someone you can confide in who is a friend of the relationship? Please remember, it WILL get better, every day that passes right now is taking you to that better place, and your own means of coping will improve. Once this has all passed, your relationship may turn out to be far better than it was before, with a much stronger compassion for one another, a closer understanding. The sadness you feel is completely natural - the grief process will do its thing and you just have to be kind to yourself and go through the motions until it passes. Re the ADs, my understanding is that it can take two weeks for them to kick in. I suppose side-effects are always a risk, but in my limited experience the three people I know who gave it a try were able to function and see a future once they kicked in, which was a huge improvement from the hopeless, 'why even be alive' perspective that had been there before. The period for them to kick in, and sometimes to find they don't work and you need something else, seems to be an unfortunate reality, where you just need to spend that time with a clear focus on how the depressed person is coping. Perhaps there was not enough time for your neighour's drugs to kick in? Who knows when it comes to the way different people's brains are wired. I guess the best you can do is get a doctor you trust, keep doing your research, and get a second opinion if that seems appropriate. These should at least reduce the risk of getting the 'wrong' drugs. Perhaps others have some useful input on this?

I'm completely with the other posters here, and won't repeat their comments. The arguments have been made well. The only thing I will reinforce is this. Let's, just for the sake of argument, put aside the age of the girl, the neighbours, the offensive behaviour and the lying (which you seem to want to do). Let's also put aside the fact that he found another 'woman' attractive (which I must say is the least of your/his problems). All this drama is the unsavoury symptom of the real problem - his weak character. This was pointed out in the beginning. Perhaps he's not a cheater, a child molester, or a pathalogical liar, perhaps he really is a good guy who loves you. Great. What I am more worried about is that you are TWENTY YEARS OLD and actively loking for excuses to spend THE REST OF YOUR LIFE with this lame duck of a man. So what if he's nice - he'll say anything, no matter how abhorrent or how much it clashes with his claimed values, to impress some tool of a 'friend'. He will risk the good things in his life (or the potential good thing as you may have been at the time) for this. We need some people to post here about their experiences with long term relationships with lame duck types, with weak characters. I spent ten years with one. Yeah he was nice and generally meant well, but he was a disappointment and ultimately took off when he found the next shiny thing that made him feel validated. These people don't know or trust themselves, they have no real integrity. They let themselves down. This means that you can NEVER trust them to not let YOU down. If, on top of all that, you have any doubts whatsoever about him re child molestation, cheating and lying at the level you've been fretting over, then there IS NO DOUBT. Any doubt at all on these issues reflects a flaming dealbreaker. I know we make this sound easy, like we don't get your feelings here, but we all probably get this better than you think, and I hestitate to say, better than you get it, because you're amid this. We are talking about you and your life and the great big world full of promise that's out there for you, and you are trying to find reasons to saddle yourself with this one loser at only 20. Do you want to be 30, 40, 50, looking back on this and regretting the years wasted? Can you really see this guy manning up and being who he needs to be to be a good husband and father?

I'm so sorry, this sounds awful to deal with. My heart goes out to you, and I wish you all the luck in the world to get through this well. However, your question below requires a different response: I'm sorry, but would you rather a wife who also commits suicide? That would be truly horrendous to deal with, particularly if it was you who discouraged some temporary use of medication to get her over the hump. Look I'm no doctor but I have been on anti-depressants to help with clinical depression, and have witnessed a couple of my friends recently do the same thing. It doesn't have to be a full time thing. In my case I had a reactive depression when I was 19, and was on drugs only for a couple of months. This was *all* that was required to get me past the hopeless feeling, curb the panic attacks, and thus equip me a bit better to manage the circumstances that triggered the whole thing. Same for my friends (each of which was coping with marriage breakdown after spouse cheated). Once the depression has really affected the brain - where there's panic attacks, sleep deprivation or too much sleep, where they are not eating properly - there is a downward spiral and the chemicals in the brain are out of whack. Dealing with even the simplest things becomes seriously difficult, if not impossible. Anti-depressants can adjust the chemical balances to get them more in synch, where the person at least then has some of the necessary wherewithal to deal with reality. Once this is under control, you can then come off the drugs. It's not really like living with a Stepford Wife who is medicated into loving you, it's more like a jumpstart from a deep dark place from where there is no escape, into the real world, where at least there is some chance of improvement. I'm sure many people have horror stories about medication and over-prescription etc, but we are now talking about someone who seems to be in a deep depression and is talking suicide. If the counsellor is suggesting a psychiatric approach i would take this very seriously.

Given the conversations we've all had with you in the past about the trust issues you had, and given the seriousness of those circumstances, it would seem natural that he is unsure at this point. That doesn't mean it's too late, and from what you've said, it sounds like it isn't. I think you've done the right thing, and the issue from here on is to be true to your word to trust him more, scrutinise him less and seriously work on the trust issues within yourself. Then re-evaluate in good faith several months from now. Once again though, none of us have any idea what's going on in his head. But generally when someone says they don't know they probably don't. I have to assume he's being honest with you. From everything you've posted before he sounds like a decent bloke.

My 2cents worth is - and unfortunately this seems to be my line these days - this is all more complex than perhaps is being recognised by some. I won't use the term commitment phobe because it seems to have a serious diagnostic definition for some people, but if we take the basic meaning - someone who's scared of commitment - well these people exist. The fear might be extreme or slight, and the person's response to the fear will depend on what sort of person they are. To respond to the original poster, what you have sounds like what I had. My guy wasn't sure how he felt about me every two years or so. Wasn't sure if he loved me 'like they do in the movies'. Given it was a long term relationship and he was a little flakey, I assumed he had a problem with unreasonable expectations. We'd have a chat and all would be okay, then it would happen again months/years later. This went for almost 10 years, and we never really progressed the relationship as many adults do, like buying a house, making plans, having children. We lived together for 5 years or so. Amazingly, in the eighth year he asked me to marry him, and I was all 'yay, he's over his issues now'. Err, then a year and a half later he dropped the bomb on me that he didn't feel like being in a relationshop any more, sorry. I was the 'perfect girlfriend' but he wanted to concentrate more on his fitness and new mountain biking obsession. Hmm. This guy was lovely and loved me very much. But he was also insecure, and dare I say immature, and could never really pin down in his own mind what type of person he should be, what he should think etc. He also came from a family that treated relationships quite cavalierly. He certainly had commitment issues, but perhaps so did I, because I chose to stay with him. I currently also have commitment fears as I am about to enter into a marriage with my new guy. If I had a different make-up personality-wise I might have asked for space, or made my fears more obvious. He could well have been scouring the net for advice on dealing with commitment phobic women, and I would be horrified if he read that I must be shallow, or not that into him, or selfish etc. The fact is that I adore my fiance but am terrified of being hurt again or losing my hard fought for independence. Am I a commitment phobe? Perhaps, but it's not pathalogical, and I do believe I will walk down that aisle. Anyway, the point of all my waffle is: (a) If he's left you before, I'm sorry, he will probably leave you again. Particularly as he's already done this multiple times. He may be lovely and you may love one another (he's 'into you'), but for whatever reason, he might just not have what it takes to be in a relationship with you, at least not the one you want. The fact is that you deserve better than this. Please imagine yourself in two years, in four years - imagine yourself having gone through this another couple of times and put yourself in that position of justifying to your future self why you hung around. (b) Fear of commitment is multi-hued and based on all kinds of stuff. Someone who has a fear of commitment and has the capacity to change will try to change all on their own - they will do this because they don't want to lose you. People who are trying to change the other person's perspective have already lost the battle. I have a fear of commitment that plagues me daily but my god there is no way I will ever jeopardise my future with my fiance - I am so lucky to have this person in my life that I will do whatever it takes to get a grip on my fears. BlueOrchids, it might be worth moving on if you can. It's probably worth simplifying this to 'yes he's great, but he doesn't tick all the boxes you need ticked'. It doesn't matter 'why' he has an issue if you can't change him. I understand your need to get inside this issue but from a purely objective standpoint you have your answer. He just not up to it.

Completely agree with previous posters. Whole thing sounds unpleasant and sleazy, I'm sorry you have seen this exchange, can't be fun. The conversation b/t them could be innocent flirting but could also be more, and in any event, is completely inappropriate. This might drive you mad with mistrust and resentment if you don't handle it direct with him. He may try to blame you for snooping but this must not be allowed to become the issue - his behaviour requires attention and changes to be made. Let us know how you go, and best of luck.