caro33

No that's not what I'm saying, I said that it's great and fine if people do this as a gesture of affection, or because of different earning power. I AM saying that for one person to fundamentally believe that the other person will pay for everything the couple does PURELY because of gender is a bit rough. I did not say 'eligible' I used the word 'entitled', meaning, one believes they have an unalienable RIGHT to have their financial needs fully taken care of by the other person. And yes, I do think that that situation is fair only where each brings something to the relationship that the other doesn't, and my example of what the non-money person might bring is raising the family. Use any example you like, but I am talking a fair trade here, not one person having a free ride because they think 'but I'm the girl'. I know of a couple where the woman made more money than the guy she was dating, and still expected for everything to be paid for by the guy. And he was happy to do this for a while, but when he realised that she EXPECTED she could do whatever she liked - with no regard to cost or convenience for him - and that he would pick up the tab, he got pretty unhappy. This is the kind of situation I am reacting to.

hope, this is what I am also saying, and have been saying through countless responses to your posts on these issues. You seem to not be able to see the forest for the trees. You have some really simple questions to ask of yourself which should make all of these issues much easier to deal with. That is what we all keep telling you, as well as asking you to think about getting counselling. Fundamentally, if this was a relationship that was healthy, truly healthy, you would not be here so much asking what we all think about all those things you ask about. Perhaps this is not the right relationship for you, it's that simple. But how will you know? Have you asked yourself these questions? Surely your friends have told you it doesn't have to be like this?

Agree. I always pay my way - take it in turns to pay the whole dinner, etc. I also like to treat people, and hate feeling indebted. To be honest, I am horrified that there is still any belief from First World women that they are entitled to be paid for for everything by the man, merely because of their gender. Paying for each other as a sign of love, or because one person has less money, is one thing, but to assume he is there at your financial beck and call just because he is your boyfriend? My god. And even if you and he are okay with him paying, because he has more earning power, or because he has some super-chivalry chip on his head, to be presumptuous about what he'll spend on you is really off-putting. hope darling, it's all a gift, not a right. There are no 'entitlements' until you are also bringing something to the relationship (like staying at home to raise children) and you guys have agreed this is the arrangement.

I agree, and I think your wife sounds completely toxic. She sounds like she has many serious emotional/psychological issues and that she has done so much damage that it would not be worth trying to fix things with her. Your girlfriend might be okay but no, she is friends with the wife. This is wrong, wrong wrong. Your poor children, what a horrible situation for them, what on earth are they going through? What have you/she exposed them to? It doesn't matter that you are married, your wife is poisonous. My god, she says she was raped, orgasmed many times and the guy was better endowed? Who says that stuff? Completely psycho behaviour. And you have decsribed so many occasions of this stuff, it's completely unforgiveable.

I think it's time to address your future together a little more clearly. He is certainly of an age where he should be reasonably clear with what he wants out of life, and it's fair enough for him to be clear also - after a year and a half - whether he sees you in his future. I'm also with melrich - 32 is old enough to have left the nest well and truly. With the issues you guys have had, it's understandable if it's not something you want to bring up right now, but do you think you are in a position to come straight out and say 'dear boyfriend, do you see yourself with me in a year or two? In ten years?'. If he says 'I'm not sure', then you need to have a long hard look at this relationship. Unless you have just had a mega fight and you can see definite room for improvement, this is a negative answer. If he says 'yes, I think so' then perhaps you need to have a gentle word about what your plans might be together, that is, how he will prioritise his family with you compared to the rest of his family. 23 is young, yes, but years can go by with some people, and they are never ready to commit. I spent the years 19 through 29 with one. It doesn't get better, even if they are 'nice' and even if they love you. You, me, all of us, owe it to ourselves to be with someone who will prioritise us and want to be with us. There are enough committed, responsible people out there who will be into you who are ALSO nice and fun. You don't need to settle for something/someone less. You have had concerns of various types about his commitment to you for a while now. If you take a deep breath and aim for complete calm and objectivity, what do your guts say about your future with him? Can you see you guys growing old together, buying houses, raising children, paying bills, and/or whatever else you want for your future?

You have been dating for over a year and a half now, right? Ideally, his relationship with you, if serious, should factor in to his decisionmaking. Perhaps he should even be wanting to run some thoughts by you, to help with his decisionmaking. If I was you I would try my utmost to appear interested but detached enough to provide him with objective advice, and make it clear you are keen to be there for him through these decisions. If he feels confident that you will not put undue pressure on him, and that you have faith in him to do the right thing (whatever that is), he may be more able to share his thought processes with you about the move. Not easy to face these things I agree, but perhaps this is a useful test for both of you to identify and manage the issues you have had. I imagine that an imminent move (or the possibility of one) will bring to light each of your levels of commitment to the future together. Given this is something you have been worried about, clarity can't be a bad thing.

Yeah Scout, I'm with you.

From what you've said it's not really a vest thing is it? It's a 'her controlling you and you've been good and you've compromised, but where does it end?' kind of thing perhaps. She sounds like she needs a good dose of you saying 'whatever darling, I just don't care, I am going to see my friends tonight, will be back by the morning, see ya'. Ideally you will see a way clear to getting away from her and finding yourself a woman who just loves you wearing whatever you want. If this sounds too radical, then she needs some re-training. I think that you may have gone too far being a nice guy and just trained her to think she can do and say what she wants. If you met the person you know she is now as a brand new relationship, would you pursue it? If the answer is a vehement 'no' then ask yourself why you are still there. You won't get any of these days/months/years back.

Some teenage girls can be evil evil evil. Especially at 13. If you do not react AT ALL they will get bored eventually, or move on to someone/something else. In the meantime, any little thing you do to show you're upset, irritated etc will merely be ammunition for them. No matter how heartfelt your statements to your ex, no matter how truthful or cool you try to be, ANY reaction from you can be twisted by them if that's what they're into. It's a pain because this can't be 'fixed', but truly, ignoring them is the only way you can minimise this. Teenage girls are the masters of mental torture.

For the little that it's worth Dako, I'm the same. From all the posts you've received perhaps you can take just a little comfort that you're not alone on this one; the imposter/impending doom feeling is a common experience. Doesn't help the frustration aspect of course. I like your quote from itsallgrand though, and will try and use this to counsel myself in my more neurotic moments. Maybe most people who have experienced some form of loss (and don't we all as we get older) have these moments of true anti-complacency. Perhaps it's a sign to sit back and be thankful that at least you're in the calm before the next storm!

And by the way (where are my manners) welcome to ENA coconut!

Would love to say something that could directly help you, but I haven't had your experiences and wouldn't presume to know. I certainly had my share of dodgy boyfriend experiences when I was around your age though, and I can understand the feeling of isolation and 'flatness' about being with people. Having said that though, you sound like a bright and self-aware person, so first off, have some faith girl. You are going through a life stage, it will pass. You will move on to better and more considerate people to date, when you're ready. Perhaps you are really just not ready though, and that's fine! If you can access counselling I say yes, go for it, give it a go. Perhaps you are a little depressed, a counsellor can help you understand if that's the case, and help you with new strategies to help you with that; to feel better about things AND feel 'more'. You may have unresolved issues to deal with from your awful experience with Mark, and your challenging time with Red. This stuff is difficult to deal even if you've had heaps of relationship experience, I can imagine it must be particularly scarring when it's your first experience(s). This is a difficult time in life, because you're dealing with other people finding their way as adults (and making mistakes) all the time, and dealing with their behavioural issues, all the while you're trying to work out who YOU are and what you need in life. I was in an emotionally painful zone myself for a long time, and lonely right up to when I was 19 or so. Some of us just make better adults that we do children or teenagers! You'll find your way, but no harm in the meantime speaking to a trained professional to get some advice that works RIGHT NOW for you.

Maybe I'm no good here because I haven't seen myspace (no access from my computer) and I don't know how truly close those friends of his are, but this doesn't seem to me like you've necessarily been betrayed or lied to. First, you have no idea (I presume) about what he's told other people about his life/feelings, so you don't know what he's shared. You also don't know what other people mean when they say he's special. Perhaps he's fun at parties etc but that doesn't mean he's bonded with them emotionally. Lots of people are all faux best friends but it's just shallow bull**. Second, you have made a friend here, you have had fun. You have gotten something out of this as well as putting something in. This does not sound like you are being used. Third, so what if he shares his concerns about life with more than one person. Maybe he told you first, and your terrific approach empowered him to tell others how he feels also. It's his business, not yours, who he confides in. This is not the same as those other examples you have given. Granted, you've been hurt and it sounds like you've been treated unfairly by others. But unless there's heaps more this guy has done to 'lie' to you i think you need to give him a break and be grateful for your friendship - you both obviously value it. Why not keep contact and enjoy him. But we should never put all our emotional eggs in one basket if you get what I mean. Don't give him too much power to hurt you whether you trust him or not at this stage. Even the best people make mistakes!

Hi there MR, are you a guy or a girl? That will make a difference to her availability to you for a start. I can't comment on the cultural difference, I imagine that might be a real factor. (& what about your own family/community's response to you being with a non-Jew?) However, cultural issues aside, and even if you are the 'right' gender for her, my main thought here is that if you have obviously tried to have this conversation with her in the past, and she's changed the subject every time, you are being told. She's not interested in you like that. I would try and go easy on her and yourself for a while, and try and wean yourself off these feelings. I know this might be hard though, so if you want closure (which is fair enough) and you feel that you could handle any rejection she might make and she could handle having to reject you (ie prepare for the worst case) then make time and ask her straight out. Obviously this is risky but also clearer to you. Depends on what sort of friendship you have.

Okay thanks, will up the exercise and enjoy nature this week. BTW had a good start already - had an odd interaction with a baby possum this morning in a park when it came up to me and climbed up my leg and hid under my armpit. That nature moment took the PMS right away and 3 hours later I'm still feeling friendly . So go get hugged by nature, people.

I mostly agree with Beec. I have often googled exes and if I had access to myspace I would check that out too. Nothing to do with not being over them, it's a curiosity thing that comes up when I'm bored and in front of a computer. Yes your guy might not be over the ex, but I don't think the evidence you have is damning or necessarily indicates that. I completely understand how second best it might make you feel (I have also had 'is he over his ex?' problems), but these could be just dumb mistakes...

"You should realise that I don't respect women". Doesn't matter what he thinks he meant, run for the hills my friend. He's a real piece of work and under his 'smooth' exterior there sounds like there's a whole bunch of stuff you don't want to get to know. Banish those second thoughts! You did the right thing, and will only disrespect yourself if you take up with him again.

OK maybe I jinxed myself with my statement of others posting, because it was thick with posts before and now is quiet as anything! Anyway, I have revised what i wrote above. I think it's all about intimacy and but also CONNECTION. There a degree of chemical pheremone sex stuff in there, but i don't think it's the main game. I'm not religious but I have kind of assumed the no sex before marriage argument is about valuing your own body and who you share it with; it's about valuing your relationship with yourself as well as with God. It's about the sanctity of how you connect with others. Sometimes this ideal can lead to silly outcomes (as can anything) but as a principle I think it's not bad at all.

No doubt as I write this many other people are also writing, up in arms at your last posts Aschleigh, and to some degree, with reason. You actually make some cogent arguments (like the comparing apples with non-eaten oranges), but with the additional lines like your one on 'religious ridiculousness' you may well find your cogent arguments get lost. This is not a site to attack others' personal choices about their gods or their bodies. If that is the 'conservatism' you attack, well fine. I guess ENA is kind of politically correct but we have to be considerate of the often fragile emotions of the people who seek advice and solace here. On your above lines, I think you are being too simplistic. It's NOT all about sex, it's about much more than that. For many people it seems to be about a need to belong to someone, to fit in, to not be alone. It's about a need to be understood by someone or to seek advice on what a certain behaviour 'really means'. Most of the threads I read are about trust and love and doubt, and not much of that is truly about sex, other than where feelings of betrayal have been triggered by physical cheating. There are people out there who live quite happily without sex. It's just my opinion, but what I think people really want is intimacy. For some this means sex, for others its the things I listed above. It's about someone 'getting you', and/or having someone hug you.

I think that perhaps if you need to ask it that is the sign that you shouldn't. Perhaps I'm being idealistic, but if it 'works' you will know it, and there should be minimal doubt about how the other person also perceives the relationship because you can see it through their actions, the way they look at you. If you need validation perhaps it's because either consciously or sub-consciously you've picked up that it's not quite happening for one of you. Paradoxically, if you don't have a burning desire to know, if you have a quiet confidence about it all but think 'what the heck let's ask' that's probably when it does the least damage, and may even bring you closer together. I do think though, that any relationship where you show rational interest and attention that scares the other person off permanently is a relationship that's not worthy of you in the first place. A genuine relationship with a person who 'gets you' should certainly not be hampered by a gently asked question after the first handul of dates or few weeks.

I'm pretty sure I never had PMS until i hit 30 or so. Since then i have noticed I feel AWFUL exactly 6 days before bleeding starts. I shift between feeling melancholic, super irritable and hyper sensitive. Marvellous. And trying to think myself out of it works to some degree, but only on the outside. I feel just as completely over everything on the inside, perhaps even more. If anyone has any home remedies please post them. I will try reducing caffeine. But I agree with shellshocked. Perhaps it isn't fair, and no, it's not an excuse, but for some women PMS is a very real mental/emotional condition and it can only be managed by the woman and the people around her with understanding, and sometimes distance!

Well put Momene, this is also what I was trying to get at. What may be 'too conservative' for some people may just be common sense and matters of self-respect for others.

Actually that's a really good point. I do all my enotaloning while at work (yes, slack I know, my job is super quiet these days) and that means I am wary of opening up too many screens that have too many 'naughty' words in them, let alone writing posts on these topics. I have no idea what our IT systems are capable of and don't want to test them too much .

To answer the conservative question, I will risk the wrath of some people for my clueless overgeneralising but I think it's a mix of: (a) Most people writing are from more conservative countries. The US and Canada are prime examples. Not that there's anything wrong with that. (b) Perhaps it's a self-selection thing, where the types of people who seek help from fora such as enotalone are more likely to be cautious and reserved, perhaps more inhibited types who turn inward for answers and seek help anonymously through the internet. © Perhaps the less conservative ones are out having sex and having more fun than the rest of us There is often a wisdom to conservative behaviour, where it respects people's options to make their choices. Depends what you mean by conservatism but I think many of the threads I read are from younger people struggling with the decisions they are taking, or expected to take, with same age or older people providing guidance. Generally very good guidance that is not judgemental about personal preferences but has the benefit of age to see that some choices made when younger can cause pain later in life.

Agree 100% with frisco, well put.