boontahr

1. shared perhaps too much of my insecurites thinking that being honest would be a good thing. ended up turning her off to me 2. also was too available and quick to meet her needs (or at least try to). don't want to say i 'emotionally spoiled' her, but she did seem to have high expectations by the end of the relationship 3. became less respectful of her when i thought that she was being controlling and selfish. also failed to communicate these concerns with her as i obviously became more emotionally guarded and resentful there's probably others, just those i can think of right now

she IMed me tonight, and even called later on trying to just chat. i kept my guard up expecting her to try and segue into a discussion about us, and soon enough it happened. I was firm in trying to really just talk to her about what i'm realizing about relationships from ours, but she would continuously be defensive and try and steer the conversation toward her opinions about what didn't work. it was the usual 'you're too _____' or 'all i wanted from you was ______ and you couldn't just shut up and do that.' i know i may sound like i'm making her out to be a real b*tch or something, but honestly i've completely realized that she is mainly upset about things where her expectations were not met. what i could not understand was why she was calling me to even try and argue, i told her that we were done because we both [i acknowledged that i wasn't perfect in building our relationship] could not get ourselves to grow nor communicate effectively. i mentioned that perhaps we both got 'tired' because we both weren't satisfied with our expectations in the relationship. i used an example with her, which i guess i should've thought about before i did, but she instantly shut off to that idea. she would keep saying things like 'thats your opinion, stop trying to get me to agree,' which constantly clued me in that it is true that she simply doesn't want to hear it if its something that is disagreeable to her. i later tried to bring the same point to the table but this time used myself as an example, and she sure was quick to agree when it was me at fault. i honestly tried my best to share what i felt wasn't working without placing blame on her, because i know it takes two of us to work it out. during this talk, she mentioned how it didn't work because she's more comfortable with someone who is just laid-back and chill, whereas i'm someone who gets all 'technical' with relationships. she said that relationships aren't a business between two people. i said that i agree, a relationship isn't like some business deal where we sign contracts and go through legalities and follow rules and that sort of thing. but i disagreed that relationships are simply being 'chill and laid back.' she said that she didn't mean for the people to not care or anything like that, but i couldn't help but feel like all she was saying was that i needed to just give her what she wanted to make her happy so that we can have a 'nice' relationship. i think her telling me things her way was because she wanted to give it at least that last try. the problem was that that is all she wanted, for me to give in and 'show my weak side,' and give myself back to her. when i could not do that and was on a different page than her, it would only upset her more. she wasn't getting what she wanted, and that seemed to be the basis of the relationship while it lasted, which led to her ultimately being dissatisfied with me. even during this last conversation, she would tell me to just be quiet because she didn't want to hear anything i had to say. i wanted to leave her with saying one thing, which was to try and learn from what went on between us, to learn more about herself, and learn what doesn't work in a relationship. she only got upset and retorted, 'no, why would i want to think about you, i promise after this i'm going to forget completely about you' or something to that effect. i feel genuinely sad, that this is what it came down to. i felt like i had clarity with her for the first time in realizing what kind of person she is. i know we all have issues that may stem from a very deep area, and i tried to understand that. i just realized that this is not someone i feel like i can have a real relationship with at this point, and though i'm partially glad i realized that, i'm also just naturally saddened by it. i felt like tonight i truly stood up for what i wanted in a healthy relationship, that i was really letting my heart AND mind (not just emotions) come out, all the while acknowledging that i dont' claim to know everything about HAVING a healthy relationship or how to help make it function, but at least the things that make a certain sense. it's just heart wrenching now to know that my ex still at the very end didn't want to even understand that part of me, and was only focused on trying to make me give in to my weakness for her, because Lord knows how weak i've been up til now for her. i have so many assumptions and so many things i want to say about her as to why she does what she does, but i think she needs time to reflect, and so do i. just another rant session, sorry for taking up so much space, i just needed to share.

gosh its weird how i can relate so much to you right now, Openheart1. the things you've shared of your relationship and the things you've learned from them are almost exactly what i am in the process of realizing with my recent breakup (the situation sounds very similar). A person can always work at fulfilling your wants, but what happens when a conflict arises when those needs aren't filled? When times get rough so to speak? Does that mean that you fall out of love, as so many claim, otherwise known as the "I love you, but not in love with you" quote. All too often it seems that people association love with how full their satisfaction meter is, which necessarily can strain a relationship. this part is very descriptive of what i was going through, i would feel that i had to tiptoe around eggshells all the time in order to keep my ex 'happy,' and satisfied. if she was ever unhappy, i should expect her to doubt everything about our relationship and then express how she doesn't even like who i am. the hard part to look back on is how she would say things like 'hey, things are gonna be rough, let's try to remember that,' but this was only in situations where i felt like i was being mistreated and neglected by her, so she would only say these things when it was convenient for herself. i guess i don't really know what that good balance of having expectations yet being able to grow within a relationship would be. i felt like i did, but this is what i also definitely relate to: In effect, it made me question myself and regret a number of things, all the while I would feel horrible for having acted in a way that was not according to her expecations. because certain things i did/say was not to her liking, i somehow felt that i was really a bad person at times. gradually though, i realized that i was being somewhat manipulated in these sorts of situations, and i began to lose respect for my ex. not to threadjack or go off on a rant, but i just wanted to say thank you for sharing your thoughts/experience, it makes me feel like i truly relate to someone in terms of the whole relationship thing. now i know better [hopefully] and can take what i learn forward into the next chapters of life.

i agree with this last statement. i feel that both my ex and i came in with expectations [which isn't bad in itself, but like you say, unreasonable expectations will only make things harder] and because we didn't satisfy those expectations for one another in some way or another, we began to drift apart.

that's kind of the situation that i was in. both my ex and i could have our insecure moments, but when she started to show noticeably less interest in me during our last month, it made me go into a kind of 'desperation' mode where i'd try anything to turn that around. despite my efforts and hope, it just didn't work out as she would constantly focus on the faults of myself and the relationship, and it only seemed inevitable that she was going to leave me at some point. because i felt like i had nothing more to hope for, i decided to end our relationship. she would only be miserable for the majority of the time we spent together and all the warning signs were there that she just wasn't into me at that point. not sure if this situation is relatable [if thats a word] to others, but just wanted to share as its not a case of me finding someone else and simply brushing my ex off. in retrospect, it makes more sense if she was the one who was already moving on and possibly finding someone else.

that does make sense. thanks for the replies and thoughts savoie, i do appreciate them

agreed ](*,)

to try and see things from her side though for a change, i could be just as moody, insecure and stubborn. i've always had a problem with my self confidence and i shared this with her and she did try to encourage me that way. we both KNOW we're stubborn, and maybe that's why we couldn't get past seeing each other as so cruel... as for chemically imbalanced, i can't say for sure because i have zero experience with that topic. i did try and suggest perhaps she should seek counseling of some sort for the issues she is finding that she has. i myself took counseling for some of the temper problems i had within the relationship, but quickly learned with my counselor that i dont' necessarily have an anger problem in general, but that it came out when i was in this relationship with her. yeah, i think i'm here to talk about this because i only wish it was different. i'm not sure if i'm doubting i made the right choice, but i wish it was a choice i didn't have to make. we can't expect things to be perfect though right? i wanted it to work between us i really did, i wished that we could actually help each other grow and communicate and help one another out through problems and all that stuff i would think would be a part of companionship. part of me says we just weren't the 'right' people (what is that anyway) for each other. the other part says i might've given up because i'm being selfish and no longer want to feel hurt and in turn be hurtful. one thing that causes me to feel like i gave up is that she would ask me 'so your love is just reciprocal, you only feel loving if i'm being loving?' whenever i would say i don't feel like she cared or appreciated me, and that it frustrated me sometimes. and no, i don't think love should be reciprocal and conditional, but if it seems like the relationship is not really a relationship because one of us or the other doesn't seem to care much for it, then i have a problem with it. is this one of those 'make you feel guilty' sort of things?

i think i'm doing ok with getting over it. but i guess for the sake of learning and seeing things in retrospect; there would be times where she'd be in a really crummy mood (PMS anyone?), and some of that crumminess would come directed at me. earlier on, i would have a hard time dealing with this because i didnt' understand why she'd be taking it out on me. as it went on, i came to accept that perhaps if you're grumpy, the people closer to you are the ones who you feel like you can express it around (i do that too sometimes). if i had to nail this sort of fear of talking to me about things on something, it'd be when i would try to tell her that she shouldn't be so grumpy towards me or others around her. i realized she's not the type of person who can take criticism very easily (it's not easy for anyone i suppose, but she gets DEFENSIVE) it's almost scary: i watched a recent episode of 'Everybody Hates Chris' and in it theres a segment where the mother character comes looking for the father to vent about how she felt like a coworker was dissing her hair. the father suggests that maybe she took it the wrong way. mother instantly says, 'oh what, now you're taking her side?' and goes into an argument from there. i swear we had the same thing happen between us (before i saw the show); she felt her friend was being mean and thinking the worst of her, and i suggested that maybe there was a misunderstanding and that she took it the wrong way. first words out of her mouth (after she hung up on me and i called back) was 'you're taking her side now over me?' this over-sensitivity is what led to her completely alienating me i think. no matter how much i tried to talk to her or get her to simply listen to my side of thinking, she would just want me to drop the subject and tell her i love her and just say she's right, that i should be more understanding and be better bf because, i love this line, 'i'm your gf, you should treat me like you care.' a bit controlling now that i look back on it.

i guess it would be both. it was painfully obvious that something about us had grown stale or tired for her. because of this and a few other things; mainly the fact that she pretty much demonized me in a way, i think its a whole other topic, but if i ever chose to disagree with her on something, she would get very defensive and compare me to her father who was not that supportive of her. trust me, i've tried to talk this thing out and get to the root of the issues we both might've had, but it was getting nowhere. it was apparently easier for her to see me as a representation of her father whom she has aggression and frustration toward and take it out on me. because of that, she would in any situation begin to think the worst of me. she wouldn't share what's on her mind for fear that i would 'use it against her later on,' and would just stop bothering to try really because she would just see me as this really bad thing in her life. i really wished that i could've been more patient and understanding, but her constant attacks at me and pessimistic attitude just took a toll. there's only so much i can take when someone is constantly thinking the worst of me. i wouldn't say its necessarily because of something i did to deserve it either. yes i admit i've yelled and said nasty things in the heat of arguing, but like i said, i've honestly been toning that down and have not blown up in a while. this whole thing of her thinking the worst of me goes all the way back to the beginning of the relationship when she would constantly say 'you're gonna cheat on me' and accuse me of that sort of thing. it was hard and painful then, but i somehow managed to fight through that and hopefully showed her that it's not like that. so when she did the same thing just in a different context, i just felt like this was her way of trying to make me feel guilty in a way and giving herself a reason to not care and say bye bye. perhaps i'm doing the same thing, thinking the worst of her, but i just don't feel any sort of remorse at this point... drizown: yeah, my worst-case scenario thought was that she just was just trying to be nice because she wanted me to stick around until valentine's day to do something nice for her and then she'd just go on with making me feel like i'm the worst bf ever.

my posts tend to be long, so i apologize in advance for a few weeks now, i could just sense that my gf of 8.5 months was just getting... tired (whether it was tired of me, or a relationship i'm not sure). she would basically tell me that she needs her space (which i respected and honored, even though at first i took it a little personally) but things didn't seem to get any better when she would obviously be uncomfortable physically with me. she wouldn't want to hold my hand, would shy away from kissing and sex was a no. my bf instincts told me that she either 1) has gotten bored with me or 2) is seeing someone else. i know that option 2 is something that is easily the first thing to pop up into my head at least when something seems off/weird, but i wanted to confront the issue and tried to see exactly where she stood in our relationship. she would try to make it seem like everything's fine and that she's just 'going thruogh a stage in her life right now' but eventually she told me that yeah perhaps she is getting a bit tired of us. she has a history of getting bored with guys and leaving them after a month, so i always had this as a worry in the back of my head, and it was just kinda tough to realize that it happened with me as well. the thing is, she just wouldn't admit flat out that she's tired and has no interest anymore. she will say 'i love you' but then complains about anything that i do that she doesn't like, and will say that i treat her like sh*t (in those words). i know i'm not the most perfect person and yes i may get defensive during arguments and whatnot, but honestly i felt that i was improving in terms of trying to realize those faults and try to work on them (ex: knowing when to take a breather and keep my head on straight because i know its just adrenaline kicking in during an argument which messes everything up). to me, she just seemed to have given up, but was still wanting all the things she EXPECTED from a relationship (bf who understands in all situations, who will never question her or challenge her thoughts or opinions, someone to always be there, someone who will never fail to keep a cool head and speak in a certain calm tone even if there is reason to be upset etc) without willing to invest in the relationship. i'm not saying i didn't want to be all those things for her, but i think i gradually came to not respect that of her because she is the type of person who either loves it or leaves it. if something/someone bothers her in any way, she tends to not want to have anything to do with it if it yields no... rewards i guess. that generally applies to us all, but its like ridiculous with her sometimes, i can't disagree with her on anything without her getting upset and saying i'm a bad bf, i should treat her like she matters and all that. i know i'm ranting, but i guess this is just my way of getting over the whole thing. i finally just had it with her when one night she basically told me again all the things about me she hates and that she feels so much better when i've given her space because she doesn't need me, and that she feels good about herself when she doesn't talk to me on the phone, she even complained that i was keeping her up at night because we had to get into this discussion, as if i'm not worth the effort nor time... i had to ask myself why do i put up with this? the next day she texts me 'i love you!' and other sweety stuff but it meant nothing to me, i realized that she is simply trying to put on a smile and act like everythings OK because that's the way she does things (passive aggressive). and later that night i told her it's over for good, because i can't be in a 'relationship' where i know she's grown tired of me, that i know will continually go in a cycle of everythings ok but everythings not, where one of us is only concerned with what they WANT in the end and not how to work together in any way to get there... she didn't take it too kindly, i guess i wouldn't have either, but i felt like i was finally just standing up for myself and be willing to let go and not fall into the trap of pretending things are ok when they obviously are not. sorry for writing SO much, i tend to keep away from the forums and then return with long streams of consciousness (or something) when there doesn't seem to be anywhere else to go. the funny/sad thing is i almost don't care that we're done. ever since a few weeks ago when she said she was tired of me and showed no willingness to talk about what's bothering her or what we can do, i think i just knew this was inevitable. i almost wish i could set my feelings aside and still give it a shot, but i think its safe to say that i'm only setting myself up once again for pain/failure. basically i wanted out because i felt that she simply got bored, but couldn't admit it, so she kinda resorted to picking out reasons for herself as to why she's not into me anymore. or maybe she did have those reasons to begin with, but in any case she just wasn't that into me anymore. as with most of my other posts, i'm not really looking for specific advice or anything, just had to get things off my chest and maybe look for a hug =T [theme song for the moment is: damien rice - rootless tree]

this might get long sorry, and it's a bit of a vent/rant. i'm one of those people who just can't dance. perhaps its partially a mental block, but i can't loosen up and just have fun on a dancefloor. my gf of 8 months has had lots of experience going to clubs so she is comfortable going to them and can shake her thang pretty well, while i on the other hand am the dork who's really stiff. i also just don't get why people go to clubs anyhow; they're really crowded, guys are constantly being sleazy looking to hook up, girls are out there and moving themselves as if to say 'look at me i'm sexy.' iono. both times i've agreed to go to a club with my gf, she ended up not really having fun it seems. although she says that clubs are boring to her anyway, i just can't help but feel like i'm not helping that at all. what confuses me most about having gone to these things with her is that while she says she doesn't care about going to a club, that its just to meet with her friends, it also seems like she's pressuring me to make sure i have a good time and just fit in. but its not like 'oh let's just have fun,' its more like she'll tell me not to wear my glasses [apparently its weird to wear 'spongebob' glasses in a club], and will constantly ask me why i'm awkward and tell me to stop it. when i tried just loosening up and being a little silly with dancing, she seemed a bit embarrassed at what i was doing [just kinda mock dancing, since i can't seem to really get myself to dance]. so its like, i'm trying to just do what i can to loosen up by not taking the club scene so seriously, but i guess shes not used to this and would rather have me be more 'appropriately fun.' shrug i dunno, and then she kept apologizing and saying she's sorry i was bored. i tried to assure her that i wasn't, and it was just me being awkward in a place/scene i'm not accustomed to nor really care to be in. i did try my best to 'fit in' though and do the dancing stuff that she was doing and others around us were doing, but i guess i seemed stiff still. i'm not sure what my point is, i guess this is one of those things where our interests/lifestyles don't really mesh together well. i can't help but also become a bit of a jealous bf knowing that she goes to clubs frequently [she is president of her sorority for this year] and while she assures me that nothing risque goes on, i know how guys think and act and i've now seen what they do in a club environment. a girl dancing with no guy in a club is basically 'free game' to the males, and they have no reason to not start rubbing their body up against hers simply because of the social environment they are in. knowing that she's in a place where guys are free to be sleazy with the help of alcohol just unnerves me a bit, but what can i do? can't win a war on jealousy as david cross once put it. yeah, i guess this is more of a venting of how i feel like i don't fit into her life/style and can't do anything about it. i just need a smack of logic or reality upside my head. or just a hug

it would depend on the type of person he is. if it were me, it would definitely mean i was into you, as physical contact is not something i would easily have with the opposite sex [unless i was very much into them]. on the other hand, some guys may just be friendlier and more comfortable with being touchy/feely[?]

thanks for the encouragement ellie. already i know that i want to seek help in terms of anger management counseling or something like that, because i know that i just can't seem to keep my temper under control at times like when i fight w/ my ex. i've never hurt her or layed a finger on her, but i have done a fair bit of yelling and hurting myself [punching wall, banging head in frustration], and this is something i definitely know affected our relationship.

not exactly looking for advice, because for my sake and her sake, i am going to try NC, guess i just want to vent/let it out of my system. [i also write alot, so i apologize for the lengthiness]. i've posted a couple of other times on this board, mainly about conflicts and insecurities i've had with my ex. what i've come to realize is that our relationship has been a very rocky and tumultuous one because of our frequent fighting and lack of communication/listening. earlier today, we got into another fight and she decided to break up again. i say again because our relationship has gone through many breakups pretty much all initiated by her nearly EVERY time we fight, but we always made up within a day, so i'm not sure if they've been actual breakups or just 'breakups' but today i put my foot down and told her if she's going to break up, then this is it and its the real deal. no more false alarms, no more calling each other within 2 hours, no more desperation to keep the relationship going. i tried to explain to her that i've recently figured out that i do have abandonment issues with my father leaving our family, and that everytime she walks out of the relationship it is 100% real to me that she is walking out of my life, and that everytime we've had our 'breakups,' that i have been tormented and confused because of the constant 'makeups.' perhaps she was too tired with fighting to care, or she was too emotional to think about what she was about to do, but she decided to say 'fine, its my decision and i just don't want to be with you.' i knew then and there that this time, i really did need to let go. i for one was becoming weary of the rollercoaster of our relationship and how alot of my issues and baggage was just not working out with her issues and baggage, and just hearing it in her voice the weariness and loss of will just kind of shut me up. we were planning on going to knotts scary this week, as well as a concert in november which we got tickets for both in advance, and i had possession of. she kindly asked me if she could take the scary farm tickets and i could take the concert tickets, but i offered her both sets just to get them out of my sight and mind, but i'm sure a part of it was me trying to do one last good thing for her. i told her i'll drop them off but she insisted on coming over to pick them up. i reluctantly agreed, because at this point i already was attempting to NC or as little contact as possible with her, because i knew it was far too easy for me to want to do whatever i could to get back together again. i agreed, but i decided to leave the tickets as well as a few of her things in a package on my porch with her name on it, and get out of my house for a walk while she was on the way. i wrote a note explaining that i am out, so don't bother knocking or calling [left my cellphone at home intentionally]. she called 3x in the time i was gone and i've decided not to return those calls. it was perhaps one of the harder things for me to do to try and completely NC her even when there was a clear excuse to see her/talk to her/hold her, but i felt like there really was no other way to go about this. i knew that our relationship was rocky and at times unhealthy, so against all my instincts, i did what i did. i guess i secretly wish for someone to tell me that there was some other way, that i should've done something differently and that there is hope, because yes i am grieving a bit [ok a lot] and i can't even concentrate enough to do my schoolwork/projects/job-work [it doesn't help that i have 2 wedding videos to capture and edit], but i just know i can't keep doing this cycle of going up and down this frequently, and i know she can't either. perhaps there wasn't much closure to us, and maybe that'll need to come a little later, but right now i just feel like NC is the right thing to do for both our sakes.