saltwatergirl

My gawd, this has got to be the most disrespectful exchange I've read lately, I cannot even believe you can stand to speak to this jerk!!! Why would you be nice and agree to give him a phone??? Why would you even answer a sentence from him????????? girl what is wrong with you, this guy is just as rude and disrespectful and mean as he can be to you, and all he can do is laugh at you because you just take it. I'm not real sure what to even say to you. Im at a complete loss. Jeez you must have NO self esteem to even put up with someone acting that way toward you. AND giving him anything on top of it! And still talking to him when he's telling you to get lost! HOW do you do that? Arent you mad? That would make my blood boil. You couldnt pay me enough money to even ACKNOWLEDGE this person let alone talk to them, or send them something. GET A GRIP! How old is this guy btw, 15??? He sounds like a teenager. Gawd, the sooner you lose this idiot, the better. And dont send him a thing!!! As a matter of fact, BLOCK him from EVERYTHING and forget you ever knew him. Find some shred of dignity and pretend this little situation never even happened. You are getting a blessing to be rid of this idiot, truly. Ackk, I can't even stop reading it, it's so incredibly UNBELIEVABLE.!! And by all means, try to spend some time getting to know yourself and figuring out how a woman should be treated, because you obviously have not a clue right now. Salt

You are still obsessing and this is not good. You WON'T know if she is ignoring, if she is busy, blah blah, you WONT know any of that okay, because there is no magic answers here for how to read the mind of another person or discect every little nuiance in their actions (or lack thereof). People are not toys with parts and instructions and cheat codes. As a girl, it would drive me insane to think that you were trying that hard to read me or study me, or plan your every interaction with me. Very annoying. Why cant you just pick up the phone & call and ask if you are still on, like you would in ANY OTHER SITUATION with ANY OTHER PERSON that you have plans with? Just call, all she can do is say yes or no, and there you'll have it. Why waste so much of your thoughts and energy trying to plan and calculate every move and then the other moments trying to analyze responses? Just let it be what it is. Call, ask, get an answer, respond accordingly. You dont need a script, you dont need a method, you dont need a plan A, B, C, D, E....... As far as your episode the other day, what is done is done. You reacted and it sent a message to her, which was your intention....so what if she decides she is no longer interested....that's the whole point of "getting to know someone". You cant change your entire personality to suit the woman of the moment, Dan. One day a girl will come along that really digs you, outbursts and all. Salt

You're first mistake. Time to start kickin a#$ and takin names. Salt

My daddy was always a gentle man Never the kind to ever force his hand He would always be the last one to raise his voice... If anybody ever put us down Well you can bet that he would stand his ground Then he would tell me son sometimes you got no choice....... You've gotta kick at little, cause a stir Sometimes you gotta make some noise to be heard If anybody ever tries to hold you back.... You gotta kick a little, and be tough You gotta let em know youve had enough..... Remember that unless you want to finish last You gotta kick a little ______ Some people judge you by the way you look They see you once and say you aint no good Feels like theyre never goona take you for who you are... Thats when you have to STAND UP AND BE STRONG And go the extra mile to prove em all wrong Just remember when they push you way too far....... You gotta kick at little--- and cause a stir Sometimes you gotta make some noise to be heard If anybody ever tries to hold you back You gotta kick a little, and be tough You gotta let em know youve had enough Remember that unless you want to finish last You gotta kick a little _______ Salt

Kick to the curb and move on. Salt

I have gone back through your posts a bit.....I'm a little confused because once you said you were together almost 1.5 years (in June) but then started saying 9 months..........ANYWAY, I wanted to point out a few things. (If I have 2 different guys, correct me, I think it's the same one though). 1. You met on a dating site, right? So it is conceivable that he could meet someone from the internet again, which brings me to point 2. 2. You began posting in June/July that things were "off", that you felt something was wrong, and that you thought you must be overreacting due to some abandonment issues. This was your own intuition that something was going on. You were unhappy here. 3. You felt you were losing him again in June, and thought that maybe by saying "I Love You' this would solve it. You thought it was because you had not that he was unhappy. You were unhappy here. 4. In March, you caught him chatting online to girls and making plans to meet up. You dont know if he actually acted on it, but the intent was there. He was cheating online. You were unhappy here.. 5. In July you AGAIN found evidence of his cheating online with more IM's he sent to other girls. You still stayed. You were unhappy here. 6. He now is saying it isnt gonna work with you because he hasnt fallen in love yet, after 10 months. Now he has left you (again). You are unhappy here. Have you thought about all the unhappiness you've had just in the past 2 months? You and him have been off and on and off and on, and each time are attributing it to another cause. Your issues, your overreactions, his cheating, and now not feeling "in love" with you yet. How many different ways are you going to allow him to hurt you?? How long do you want to be sad? From what I can see he has done nothing BUT hurt you since March and taht's only because I only went back that far. I am sure there are other examples of his hurtful behavior. This is all just the past 4 months! You have been a doormat. You have allowed him to do this, he did it because he always got away with it. He drops you when he has something heating up online, then is back with you, then back and forth it goes. But it all goes back to the internet. Remember point 2, where you "sensed"something was wrong WAY BACK??? Remember how you found him online? you were spot on then, and spot on since. He is cheating. I am sure of it. So are you. And now the newest "i dont feel in love with you yet" is just another ditching effort on his part, figuring nothing else ran you off, why would this? How many chances does he get? He does not care about you. WHEN will you reach the point of saying enough is enough and find someone who will not keep you in this constant roller coaster state? You have not been happy in a long time. You really haven't. From what I can see you have now spent the whole summer being sad at any given moment because of something else he has done, something else going on. I am telling you now, that this guy is and has been online hooking up with other people probably all along, and stringing you along keeping you as a back up for the dry spells. I believe everything goes back to the internet (remember all that?) This was your sign. You didnt find that information for no reason. You snooped for a REASON. It was there for A REASON. We are given signs all the time. You need to get really angry about this. Get really really mad. Every post you've made that i read is nothing more than you searching for something, something to say, something to do, to bring him toward you. rationalizing, explaining, questioning, worrying.....Go back and read this. You have worked hard, and gotten nothing in return. You've made excuses for him, you've taken blame, you have forgiven the unforgivable and believed the unbelievable ---all in an effort to keep this person in your life. But it didnt matter did it? Because here you sit, again. But understand this: A real relationship doesnt require this. It doesnt. You dont have that with him, you have a "mirage". You have a fantasy. You have a distorted view of him, what he is, what he says, what he does. What you had. Im sure you dont want to hear that or think of it, but you need to because its the truth. You have had nothing more than what you created in your own mind, because the reality is there, and it does not match the fantasy in your mind. If I were you, I would ONCE AGAIN go to NC but this time not in an effort to win him back, or give him space, or draw him in. Id do it to GET MYSELF OUT of the fantasy so that I could see the reality for what it is. do NC in order to sit back and actually SEE what this guy has done to you, behind your back, and how he has twisted you into believing in something that isn't even there (the mirage). Accept that this is done. There is no future, no what if, no down the line. It is done, girl. Done. Stick a fork in it. You dont have to work this hard, think this hard, search this hard, to keep a guy with you. Or to understand things that dont make sense, or to "figure out" things that you cant figure out. Do you know that you dont have to analyze your own self this much just to understand a relationship? Well, you don't. I know, because I've been there. Have faith in your own self. You have know all of this all along, you were aware enough to go searching and you found what you knew you would find. He has shown you who he is. It is time for you to accept it. Believe what your own eyes see, what your own ears hear, and what your own mind knows. Go back and read your own history. Read your sadness. Read your questions. Read your own pain, because it is there. The sooner you remove him from your life permanently, the sooner that will go away. You will not find happiness with him. Ever. Only more of what you have had. Find your legs, get up on them, and walk away. It is time, and only you can do this. You don't need consoling. You need a real hard shove in the other direction. I hope I have done that. Cowgirl Up. Salt

I agree with someguy. Go back and re-read what you just posted. Are you really willing to put up with this? Salt

Keep all conversations friendly, light, upbeat, and above all brief. This may just be a passing phase of his, and you dont wanna set yourself up. Salt

You are thinking of it perfectly. Go with that. Salt

well, if he's hooking up with someone else, I dont see what choice you have really. I'd move on, concentrate on my own things, give him all the space in the world. Don't let him put you on pause. Salt

You have been broken up 4 months. I dont think you have done anything wrong nor do i think you should let your conscience bother you. You are only talking to your ex. If it progresses, then you can switch gears. Otherwise, continue on your path and if the x brings it up, calmly state that you dont feel obligated to discuss your personal life with an ex. And no you havent done anything to impede its progress. Your single and free to do whatever you want until that changes. Salt

I think you should cancel your current relationship, engagement ring and all, until you decide what you want. I'd hate to think that I was engaged to someone who didn't even know why he was doing it. Most people don't want charity relationships. On another note, I doubt that he will never trust another woman in his lifetime just because of you. That is just your ego talking. I'm sure you will both fully recover from it. Salt

Gotta agree with all of this. You really must stop having sex with your EX. I know, you dont wannnnna......but this man has you chasing him down the street and leaving your house running up into bars screamin. Come on now. You dont want to make a fool of yourself any longer. PS Shadows: It might not be all that "sick"....could be a case of mutual using and gratification. Salt

Tell yourself that it really doesnt matter how you remember each other. you are just trying to catch one glimpse of the relationship that you thought you had. You're trying to avoid the reality of the situation and of her. When someone shows you who they are, believe them. Dont doubt them. Right now you are doubting. Remember her as she was, abuse and all. She hurt you, sucked you back in, and hurt you again. It hurts, I know that. But listen, THAT memory is what is going to get you healed and get you out of this misery. You dont want to think of her or this relationship that way, because it hurts. But you have no other choice. She is like quicksand. And you have to get yourself out of it. Cowboy up. Salt

I think it is great that you have made this final decision. Just don't set up in your mind some time-frame of healing....you may not require 9 months to heal. but if you get that into your mind it could very well take that long. Also try not to consider the medication as a "requirement" to your developing a backbone. You have one and it has been there all along. Every time you talk about being "weak" around him, you reinforce that thought and set yourself up. Watch what you put out into the universe. Replace words like "weak" with "strong" and "hard" to "easy", and turn those thoughts around in your head. You can make this as easy, or hard, on yourself as you want. Find your legs, and get back up on them. Then take all the energy you are putting into him and channel it into being your own personal bodyguard, or soldier. Defend yourself by "catching" those thoughts in your mind and changing them. Thoughts like "this is hard" or "i am mush around him". No you aren't. You just weren't guarded. Think of yourself now as a soldier---protecting YOU. Even if it's only from thoughts in your mind. Go into "soldier" mode when the phone rings, when you have thoughts, when you feel "weak". The weak need a protector---YOU have to be your own protector. Become your own personal soldier and you will be surprised at how easily you can lift yourself out of this. You already see the destructive path he is on, you already see how careless he is with you and your life. It's like some lowlife coming into an empty house, taking what they want, partying, tearing things up, ransacking the place and then leaving with valuables they want to take....then coming back the next weekend to do it all over again. You were the empty unguarded house, but all you have to do is lock it up. You are not weak. You are strong. Find your legs and start defending. Here is one to get you started: dont think of him as having other girls. He just has other empty houses to ransack. Congratulations, Salt

You're welcome. You are going to be fine. It seems as though it's all in her hands now, anyway. Maybe by your raising the white flag and letting her win, she will realize what I have come to realize, and that is this: Sometimes you have to decide if you would rather be "right" or would you rather be "happy". Right now she would rather be "right". But maybe in the wake of your absense, she will decide she'd rather be "happy". Maybe this is something you could ask her sometime. Which would she rather be? Because she could end up being a very lonely, "right" person. Also, I have come to realize that you dont have to get mad every time you have the right to be mad. You can choose to not be, you can choose to let the anger go, just because you have a right to sit there and be angry doesnt mean you HAVE to be. this might be something you could alert her too, as well. Alot of times, we don't realize the choice here. We think because we have the right to be mad, that we should be mad. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. Salt

I really think you have done the right thing. I know you are feeling empty right now, I can relate to that very much. But, you have to keep yourself in mind here, too. You have to find your legs, and get back up on them. Everything is going to be alright, just stay strong and remember that you are doing this so that BOTH of you can move out of this state of mind and into a better one (even if that means you leave each other alone). Salt

You told her, it was your decision, too late now to change it. So let that go. Does love have to lie? Not sure what that means but I'll take a shot at answering it anyway. There are times when we can put people in positions where they will lie to us. Force them into it, set them up. Example: making irrational demands of them, expectations too high. Maybe they get off work at 12 but dont call until 2. Perhaps they just wanted to rest or get online for a while before calling you......but because you are so demanding of their time, when you question why they're just now calling, they lie and say they had to work late. was it a lie? yes. Did you set it up? Yes. Just off the top of my head. As far as lying about cheating, a whole other topic. We all have our own opinions on whether or not you should come clean with someone if you've done this. Only you can answer that for yourself, and you have done that. Too late to question it now. Just dont do it again, then it won't matter. What I find really interesting is that people will cheat, which is neither honest nor honorable behavior, but then struggle with issues of honesty and honor when trying to decide if they should tell. Interesting. Salt

Apparently you are looking for someone to respond with something like "hey yah go for it, get one last hook-up in before the guy takes off, and do it all behind the back of that boyfriend that you "love" and have been with for 4-5 years"...... There is a word for girls who behave like this. Im sure you're familiar with it. Salt

Yes, however it will require you to stop rewarding the behavior and may even require you to let her "win". "You know, you're right I did a very bad thing, I hurt you terribly, and I don't think there is anything that I can ever do that would allow you to believe in me again." Then leave. Silence. Let her "bask" in her victory, and she will. Until she realizes that she has won the battle but lost the war. At which point, she will call. The only other possible outcome is that she never calls again. In which case, you were right. You can't recover from it. And so, you go on. Salt

One day without a call from him is one day further into your new life and away from his lies. Today was a Good Day. Hope for the same tomorrow. Salt

After the hot stove burns your hand, you learn not to touch a hot stove. Sure I forgive the stove, but I won't touch it again. It hurts. Forgiveness is done for myself, for my own healing, not for the one who hurt me. You say love them enough to forgive and move on. Forgiving does not mean accepting. The difference here is this: I love MYSELF enough to forgive and move on, but without them, not with them. Forgiveness and taking them back are mutually exclusive. One doesn't require the other for it to be done. That is my point. Salt PS I replied again to your other post. After giving her actions further thought, I have changed my approach.

You have paid enough pennance, done your time, served your sentence...you cannot have this held against you forever and your mistake does NOT give her carte blanche to run rampant over this relationship. This I have learned from my own experience....she does not have the right to play the martyr and act a fool all in the name of her suffering. She was a victim, however, she is continuing to be a victim because she is getting some reward for that role........what could that be? Attention from you? Seeing you hurt? Pride? Whatever benefit she gets from being the martyr you must remove, and you can bet she is getting some satisfaction somewhere or else she wouldnt do it...You must remove the reward she's getting.... Start here: Forgive yourself and back away quietly. Dont announce you are backing away. just do it. Silence must be heard. If you simply MUST have some minimal contact: Do not continue to acknowledge your past with your pleas for forgiveness or with your promises of never doing it again, etc....this is a payoff she's getting and is why she is stuck in victim mentality. Dont speak of the past, and if she gets a shot in or out of the blue says something about it (like a dig at you, etc), ignore it. Dont agree,dont disagree, dont console, dont do anything. Ignore it. change the subject. If her payoff for being the victim is "attention from you" or hearing you grovel in your mistakes, you remove it by doing this. You must remove the reward. Dont dwell on her and this man, etc. Dont bring it up, dont ask ?, dont even acknowledge it. If her payoff is "seeing you suffer", then you are removing that here. Try to think of what else she may be "getting out of" being a martyr. You know her better than I and how your convo's go. Maybe its her pride. Maybe she gets it pumped up by your constant chasing after her, if so remove it. Point is if you want her out of this martyr/victim mentality you must pinpoint and remove any reward she gets by doing it. And you must start pulling your own self together. You have the power to stop the pain and start the healing---it begins within you. Salt

I dont think that because I have no pity for cheaters means I am a "moralistic harpy". I am glad that you claim to have learned from your mistake and will never repeat it. But let me ask you this: If you truly "learned from it" and will "never repeat it", there must be a reason for it....so what is that reason? Do you now feel it is wrong to cheat, perhaps? Why else would you have an aversion to doing it now? And if that is the case, we find ourselves in agreement, no? You were the cheatER and as such you now state you will never do that again. I was the cheatEE and as such i now state that I will never forgive that again. What's the difference? Both have learned a lesson and established a personal boundary....okay for you but not us "moralistic harpys"? You cant claim that something is "wrong" and not to be repeated, yet profess to believe that it should be forgiven when done. Cant have your cake & eat it too, Lexi. Gotta pick one side of the fence or the other. Salt

Well, you have had a lot of things going on here, I tried to wade through it and here is my best response. I myself have been the victim of a lying/cheating boyfriend. I was and am truly devastated. He did all of the things you mentioned, he tried to repent, he apologized, he allowed me to vent when feelings of anger came over me, and I put him through the ringer by bringing up the episode at EACH AND EVERY opportunity. We simply could not get past it, despite the perceived efforts on his part, because I was not ready to forgive. I say percieved because I doubt his intentions (as I doubt everything he now does). Anyway, I'm assuming yours were honorable so I'll continue as if his were too: I was angry and had lost all trust in him. I am now at the point where I am no longer a happy person. I still have nightmares about it, I still question in my mind every single thing he says to me, I still sit and think about it, wonder how he could do it, on and on. The mind is a strange thing. However, mentally and emotionally this is crippling me. I also lost a great deal of respect for him as a person. When that happens, it is difficult to recover from it. Perhaps this is her feeling as well. I dont know because I dont know her, but this is how I was feeling. And it mattered not what he did or said, the walls went up and never came back down, despite having moments of fun or what have you. As she has, I many times have said I was "over it" etc ready to put it behind me only to bring it up 2 days later, because that was me TRYING to do that, but UNABLE to. There is only so much one can control. We may try, but try and do are 2 different things. To risk giving your heart to the person who broke it is asking an awful lot of yourself and sometimes we just can't do it. I totally understand the feeling of compromising her values and having doubts. I did the exact same thing. Its almost like being angry with yourself every time you hang up, thinking: i should not be talking to him. You feel as if you are disappointing yourself by taking this person back despite how they disrespected you. It is a battle within, and hard one, and eventually you must end it one way or the other, either forgive & forget, or move on. Apparently her choice was to move on. You cant blame her for that, she has to look out for #1 as you have proven that you are capable of hurting her. 2 years is a long time, if she was going to be able to forgive and accept you back she would have by now, in my opinion. Maybe she hasnt yet tried. My b/f would tell me all the time that he "cant do it all" and that "you havent tried", which was true. but I felt somehow that I should not have to "try and fix it" when I didnt break it!! Whether that is anger, or pain talking, it matters not. Point is I did not WANT to fix it, I wanted it the way it was and that was now impossible, and bottom line that made me mad, and she may feel the same way and has come to regret accepting you back. She may even resent you and the situation and feel like she became a "doormat". You and I know that is not the case, as you seem very sincere in wanting to fix what you did, but that may be how she feels all the same. Unfortunately, you know what is in your heart and mind but we outsiders are clueless and can only go by your past actions, not the "new and improved" model you present after the fact. As far as her being with someone new, I cant really speak to that because I have yet to have any desire to get invoved with anyone else. But possibly this is her way of "flushing you out of her system". You cannot change what you did, and you need to forgive yourself for it. Learn from this mistake. We all make them. You are human. This person just chooses not to forgive, and that is her right. But you I am sure have learned a valuable lesson and probably have prevented yourself from damaging the next relationship you enter---one that may be "the one", so consider this a dry run as you prepare to meet someone new. You cant change the past, you can only learn from it. As for analyzing and not being able to stop/sort through memories,etc: remember this: paralysis by analysis. In other words, you dont want to get so wrapped up in thoughts that you are paralyzed and CANT move on. Only you can make the mental decision to stop thinking about it. It is hard but occupy your time and thoughts with anything other than this situation. I have found yoga and starbucks to be very important now in my quest to heal, but you are a guy so, that advice probably isnt some you are going to take. Maybe the guys here can help more on that. Salt