friscodj

It sure sounds to me like you haven't accepted them being friends... So what is it that is preventing your acceptance of them being friends and generating your insecurity here? What logical and/or historical basis do you have for this? Aside from this, perhaps going to a class will surprise you and show you this is all in your head. On the other hand, it might be weird and uncomfortable and reinforce your insecurities. Take a class, go from there, and after doing such you will have shown effort towards resolving this issue.

I think in general relationship are about balance, balance between intimacy, closeness, space, giving and receiving support, making sacrifices, laughing and crying, etc. The problem is when something is unbalanced either to huge degree and/or for a large amount of time. This is relative to what you can handle, i.e., your comfort level and "breaking point" with such things. I think it is important to identify and operate within each other's definitions and limits of zones of needs being met and fulfillment. It takes sustained perception of this, focus, and mutual work to do this. Sometimes, we push ours outside of our natural boundaries or personalities in the name of compromising ourselves thinking this will make the relationship work. In those cases, the two of you are not a good fit, and nothing you can do will make it right. People fake it, kid themselves, and can do this for a while but in time either an end to the relationship comes or the imbalance is manifested in other ways, e.g., cheating, abuse, suppressed misery, etc.

Hey KI- I've been following your story since the beginning and you're doing better my friend. Not too long ago, you were on emotional life support. I see more signs of life here... Two months removed from a 2 year basis of attachment is not that long at all. Take it easy on yourself with the time issue here...it'll happen... Aside from that, the best advice I have for you is to toughen up. Yep, this situation sucks. That's life my friend. Tough times call for tough measures by tough people and you can certainly decide and act on such a decision to be one of those people...

This a much deeper issue, my friend, than weighing the pros and cons of being bachelor #4 waiting in line at this one cookie jar, hoping to pull out a treat and take a bite before she snatches it away from you again... So what's going on here? Why is your self-perception so negative and your desperation so positive?

Hey Sean- Well, you talked to her about your feelings here, she provided reassurance, and you said you didn't have a problem with what she wrote in her blog. And you eloquently and convincingly described how wonderful she is and how happy you are. It sounds to me like the problem is in your head and not with the relationship... I think the root of that is the fact she has shared a deep love with someone that you have not. Someone's first love tends to occupy a special place in someone's heart and when tragedy spells an end to this, it becomes more special. Sadly, he is gone now and the memory of him and his love will fade with time... I do understand your concerns here for sure. I think whenever you feel an associated negativity creeping in, remind yourself of her reassurance, how wonderful she is, and how happy you are together. What you have with this woman is like gold. Polish it with enjoyment and by savoring it instead of staining it with negativity and doubt. You are in a very enviable position to a lot of people out there my friend...

That sounds like a good plan to me. You seem to have a good perspective on this... As far as what to do, whatever suits your common basis sounds good to me. I think it is important at this point to let the situation play out without laser-guided precision here. The resulting light, carefree nature will likely help the cause of friendship here...

Hey Sal- I know how you feel buddy. It's tough balancing your hopes for romance with the possibility that she may just be being friendly. This has happened to me before, where a woman is super nice, smiling, and chatty with me, start to get a little excited and thinking about how I'm going to approach her to take this thing a step further, then sometime later I find out she's engaged or married. It's tough man...and not at all easy to understand or fair either! But beyond this relatively minor point here is the fact you are just too negative and self-defeating in your self-perception. I know some of the most socially-retarded people (not saying you are by any means) who are happily married and have families. I have no idea where these people come from or how they tie their shoes in the morning, let alone understand relationships, yet, they share fruitful love with someone else... You are comparing your perceived superficial self to the image you believe attracts the masses. You don't want the masses you want one woman who is as unique and special as you are and appreciates you for you on deeper levels than what the masses see anyway. But she's going to have a tough time doing that if you yourself don't do that. I think finding contentment and happiness in your life outside of the institution of relationships is the means to this end. You focus on this and the relationship aspect of your life will follow suit I think. And if it doesn't, no matter, because you're happy and content anyway... I think when you address this core problem, all the related details will start becoming clearer to you as will solutions to such. Perhaps you should also let go of "trying" to come accross as this-or-that and come accross in a manner that you believe in without the pretense of trying to gain anything by doing such. This is called being genuine. If 100 women shoot you down, so be it, they aren't for you. If one woman falls for you, she's the one you want anyway...

So he basically told me to go to hell then? Cool...just like my last girlfriend... Maybe instead of fighting this, get back together with him. Give him another shot. Think about it...run the scenarios through your head and picture the two of you together... Maybe reverse psychology will work here...

Hey MT- You are being honest with him and that's very important. He needs to take some responsibility for his side of this for sure, so this isn't all on you by any means. Sorry if I came accross that way... You told him with words, but they didn't seem to register. The next step is action...decisive and firm action in a case like this no matter how it feels to you... Your feelings tell you one thing and your head another. There is conflict there that isn't going to get you anywhere. You have to pick one or the other...and the one you don't pick won't bow out easily... At any rate, no matter what you do, as long as you don't do anything illegal or get pregnant, you guys, in some amount of time, will be fine. You know what's going on and it is only a matter of time before this gets resolved. The sooner the better as it will spare prolonged and deeper grief, but you can only do your best.

Hey VST- Experience has told me forcing relationships or even dating in general is not the path to lavish fields of love. In fact it can be quite counter-productive. So don't "date" guys. Find some activities, places you enjoy doing things you enjoy, and simply make yourself open and available to situations as they arise without romantic expectation. Get to know men as people, as friends, and build happiness in your life outside of the institution of relationships. I've seen the sweetest fruits come when people share their happiness with one another vs. making each other and/or the relationship they have together the source of it. I've also seen and experienced the best relationships bred from solid friendships. There was one man you've met that you felt real attraction to and there will be more. And while the paperwork is going through and being processed by the universe to get you guys together, live and enjoy your life to the fullest. Shift your perspective to that and ultimately you'll be a lot better off I think regardless of your relationship status.

Hey meantime- The problem here is that your knowledge is too distant from your heart. You theoretically know what to do here but you don't really know what to do because I bet you have never been in this situation from his side of things and experienced deep and lasting emotional effects from being there. And that's OK. How are you supposed to make decisions based on experiences you haven't had? I have been both chased and chased several times in different situations by different people at different stages in my emotional, psychological, and intellectual development. The very hard lesson I have learned is that you simply have to let go sometimes regardless of how you feel or perceive the action of such. In my analysis, the clarity came much later, and often when I found myself on the other side of situations like this. It all suddenly made perfect sense to me why the other person was behaving the way they did and I understood why I did what I did to hold on and subsequently the reasoning behind the other person now doing the same. The resolution in this particular situation is going to be reached after one of two things happen: either one or both of you will become exhausted by the situation or one or both of you (likely him by my experience) will experience a building frustration and confusion that culminates in a proverbial "falling out". I can see it coming clearly... You see everything here but your desires to hold on likely bred from fear of letting the minute probability of potential romantic love here go and as you said, this situation gives you a nice ego boost and makes you feel good. I think you're going to to have to proverbially "live and learn" on this one and so will he. You both will walk away from this with Master's Degrees in this type of situation that will serve you invaluably for future relationships I guarantee it.

My friend, quite simply put, this is life. Sometimes you've got to toughen up, make tough decisions, and face tough consequences in the name of perceived necessity. This is one of those times and you know that. I very sincerely wish you the best in searching for that inner clarity and strength you need to take your life back and provide the stimulus she very much needs for her to take back hers. That and the action to follow through can only come from you and I hope it comes sooner than later. My best to you my friend, that's all the advice I give here. It is all up to you at this point. We can keep throwing you inflatable arm floaties of advice and words of motivation and/or comfort but ultimately you have to sink or swim with this in the pool of your own life.

Hey GQ- You need to blow I think my friend. Reaching ground zero with frustration is the only way to develop the deep conviction necessary to truly and finally break free from this absolutely unhealthy emotional roller coaster you are on. That is an understatement...this thing sounds more like you guys are doing emotional aerial acrobatics in F-16s here... And you are out of fuel my friend...time to pull the ripcord and eject... You see everything now, you realize the same thing is going to keep happening over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again until you end up in a straight jacket in the corner of your private room at Sunnyvale Mental Hospital playing chess with your imaginary friends Rufus and Plaxico reminiscing in a fabricated accent about the good 'ol days when the blue ray beam generated by the aliens dictated your actions... You absolutely have to cut this thing clean once and for all and stick to that decision as if your life depended on it. Tell her clearly and directly it is done, you are sorry, but you won't be talking to her for a while. You really need to get out of this co-dependent disaster yesterday. I guarantee this is going to be the hardest thing you've ever done in your life and sticking to it will be even harder. This situation dictates complete detachment at all costs here no matter what. Forget the ticket, it is a very small price to pay relative to the bigger picture here, forget about pursuing any other option here, and forget about trying to assuage her very apparent issues because you cannot help her with those. The best thing you can do is cut her loose for her own good.

Well, it sounds like you had something real, albeit relatively short. It meant a lot to you...that is the main point here. I do see a good basis for friendship with your common interests and the fact you bonded and had fun together. Do you think a real friendship is possible right now without you getting sucked into chasing him and/or rehashing a potpourri of feelings surrounding the relationship and/or a desired new one? I guess it wouldn't hurt to try. Be honest with yourself and trust your judgment. Take some initiative to this end, maybe take it slow at first, and if things start becoming too heavy, negative, and salty, take some more time and distance and try later on down the road. I hope things work out for you guys and if they do that would be very cool...

Hey cap- If this is what you really want to do, do it... The reason he is doing what he is doing is likely driven by the fact he doesn't understand the deeper purpose of your distance. He sees it as insulting to him. He has likely never been in such a situation on either side, and is putting the defense and protection of his ego above the benefit of the doubt that your judgment on this that tells you that your distance is necessary for your healing process. In this way he is being selfish. And it is interesting that when the situation requires him to take responsibility for his actions, i.e., paying you back,... he doesn't. That is very telling here as well. If it shakes you up to read his messages, don't read them. You're still dreaming about him and the illusions of him being in another relationship for God's sake! It sounds like you have reached resolution with this in that you feel you need more distance and time here. I agree with you, but that is secondary to your opinion here. Trust yourself on this one... Everything else is secondary to this primary direction. As a courtesy, I would send him a last email telling him what you're doing and why, wish him the best, and then disa-freaking-pear until you reach better emotional places with this which will allow a clearer perspective with which to make decisions regarding a possible future friendship with him. If he doesn't agree with you or still doesn't understand, that's his issue, not yours...and one you won't know about because you're gone until all of this no longer shakes you up as it is now.

Hey ashley- Let me ask you this, what is your history together? How long were you two together and what was the depth of the relationship? The reason I ask such questions is because I get the sense you guys aren't quite at the same place with everything just yet. Do you think he is dissecting your words the way you are his, worrying about appearances of calling and wanting to spend time together, and asking for advice on the Internet about this matter? Are you sure your true motivation is friendship here? You aren't really hoping to use a friendship as a vehicle to get back together? How would seeing him happy with another woman or hearing about such a relationship affect you? If you are really fine with all of this and truly accept that the relationship is gone, I say forget about appearances and ask him to hang out with you as friends. He may be wondering if you are OK with this as well. Given you are truly past the relationship ending and the associated feelings precluding further confusion, weirdness, and pain, I say wholeheartedly take steps towards pursuing a friendship with him. And I'm sure if you expressed your intentions and reasons for such, it would help solidify the basis for this friendship by eliminating a lot of questions on both sides.

Hey meantime- That's OK, you are not a bad person for doing what you did. You're trying to find your way like the rest of us. And you are learning deep and important things here and no one else can do this for you. As far as where to go from here, I strongly suggest you take your time to yourself and away from him. I have won Super Bowl-esque MVP trophies in these types of chases and I can tell you the best thing she ever did for me was cut me loose and not call me. I look back and thank God she did that for me because I was so lost and my perspective shot to hell. And after the chase was complete and the feelings of victory wore off, things went right back to the way they were before. I have never lived, seen, or heard of a lasting and healthy relationship come about from one person who was sucked into it when they really wanted out of it. I've lived and seen examples of this and they were not pretty... And one more perspective for you...put yourself in his place...what would you want if he had your feelings and you had his?

If this situation does not clearly support a need for some true distance between you guys and time away from each other, I don't know what does. You are exactly right when you say the path you are headed down is one that will preclude a true friendship in the future. The things you describe here are not healthy feelings or behaviors...guilt, jealousy, possessiveness, all misguided... I think it's high time you both faced the reality that you are "broken up" by doing some real "breaking up", getting to healthier emotional places and ones of better perspective before getting back into each other's lives. As it stands now, you guys are never going to get anywhere productive with anyone..including yourselves.

Your feelings and actions are normal. You are still attached to him, even if you don't want such an attachment. I also think you are viscerally afraid in many senses to really detach and face the resulting grief from that separation and maybe you viscerally enjoy being "chased" and like the associated ego boost. This is a classic case where you both need time away from each other so feelings can equalize. A true friendship is not possible right now, no way, no how, no chance, not with such an emotional imbalance and dichotomy going on. You can't say "No" even though you want to and he can't say "No" and he wants you. This is the making for more pain, frustration, confusion, heartbreak, and a constant struggle for the both of you. I absolutely guarantee that 10000%... It's going to be tough but it is necessary here in your specific situation. Since you are the one without the emotional investment and subsequent level of vulnerability here, you've got to stand up and do the hard thing here. Break this clean, separate for a while until the feelings balance out, and come back together later on down the road as friends. Realize this is not mean, it is not cold, it is not throwing away what you had, it is necessary. Buck up and cut this poor guy loose already. It is very likely he is far too wrapped up in you to know better. You do know better, you know you want to say "No", so now it comes down to toughening up and doing it for your sake and his.

Hey #5- It sounds to me like she does not give one dam about how her actions are affecting you. She is just "having fun" and in my experience, this often equates to being irresponsible on one or more levels...and it is happening here with you and your feelings. This fits perfectly with her mixed signals, display of possessiveness and feelings of jealousy you describe above in your quote. Don't be afraid of being used because you already are... In short..she has you by the balls and she knows it. The thing is, if you take your sack back, she won't like it very much and there will be repercussions first felt on your vulnerable heart with same tactics of control that she has shown you and then heard miles away when she gets angry that she isn't getting exactly what she wants when and how she wants it. Expect it... So it is very clear to me that you should take your balls back and stay away from her and her tactics of manipulation. The question is, how do you do that given the common circle of friends here? That's a little tougher, especially given your vulnerable emotional state right now and the imbalance of control between you two. I think you're going to figure the nuances of this one out on your own. You'll figure out how to be around her and your friends, but block her out. You'll figure out how to keep your interactions with her necessary and as short as possible without telling her anything. Then you'll figure out how to deal with the backlash when she doesn't get what she wants from you anymore. I've been in situation like the one you describe and I followed up on and "being normal" around each other is going to take a lot of time. Expect that too and remember there is no need to rush back into the vice here...

Hey 4- Well, it sounds to me like your perspective on this situation and yourself has been smacked up, flipped, and jerked around by the grief you are feeling from this separation. I see a situation where someone lied to and cheated on you. Then after she betrayed your trust and as such put you in a vulnerable position, she asks you to remain in her life. Classic selfish and irresponsible behavior... Give yourself a break in how you dealt with things. I'd say you had some leeway in that given the situation, but that really doesn't matter. Is is not the main issue here although it has become a convenient excuse for which your grief to lay blame on you... What matters is it sounds very clear to me that you need to let this go. Your "value" comes from your opinion, and certainly not that from someone who betrayed you like this. The stature of her opinion has as much stature as her words to the effect that you could trust her right before she betrayed you. So how do you resolve this situation? Walk away from it. You already have value so you don't need to chase after those illusions generated by grief and the words of someone who lied and betrayed you. The best thing here is to remove the source of this, namely...her and your involvement with her... Forget her, forget about emails and contact lists, and forget what happened. You don't need a friend who would do something like that to you either. Quite simply, she is not for you and it sounds like you are far better off without her.

Hey SH- First off, your analysis of what happened is amazing. Have you shared this with him? Have you as well come to any other realizations about the situation and your role in it since you last spoke to him? If you did, I would take action and let him know. I wouldn't leave yourself in limbo indefinitely...

Hey bro, There are certainly a few levels of complexity to your post here. I think you may be putting the proverbial carriage in front of the horse in seeking advice on how to put moves on her. You've only been out on one date, it's been a month since you've seen her, due to "stuff", and now things seem to be back on track. But I'm not sure there is even a train coming yet. Don't overthink or otherwise get ahead of yourself here. Some basic points here: 1) If she's into you, it doesn't matter what you specifically do (within reason), she'll respond and she'll love it. 2) She can certainly make moves herself or give you hints to make moves too. So this isn't all on you here to sink or swim... 3) I think you should shift your focus away from making specific moves and focus on how you are going to get to know her better. What do you guys plan on talking about? What do you want to know about her? How are you going to build your bond through communication? 4) With that said, part of building the bond comes from the physical side as well. I'd set the tone with a hug and kiss on the cheek and see how she reacts. A lot of this we won't be able to see, you won't be able to explain, and you'll need to decide for yourself what's going on. 5) Don't limit yourself to the couch. If you feel like it is time for a kiss, no matter where you are, go for it...

Welcome to ENA stillhopeful! Great to have you here! In short, I think this has a chance... The formula makes sense: issues cause a split, there is true distance and time with such that passes during which a new perspective is gained on the situation and realizations are made about your role in such. Then you reconnect, start talking and pending time together again, address these issues, find there are still feelings present, and here we are... It all makes sense and I've seen firsthand situations like this work out and people go onto live healthy and enriched lives together... You did the right thing by being direct in seeking a direction from him. Limbo is no place for anyone...I'd much rather have a "yes" or "no", or even a "go to hell you bastard" than an "I don't know"... The way I see this is that he actually started breaking up with you before he actually did, which puts him in a place of more psychological and emotional distance than you. Realize it took him a lot of gumption to call this thing quits having built so much history together, good and bad, and he had to dig himself into a pretty firm emotional ground to do so. He's suffered too and is likely feeling many of the exact same feelings you are right now. And you can't "wipe the slate clean and forget the past". We would like to, but unless we somehow develop amnesia or get brain surgery, the constraints of the reality of our memory and our feelings associated with such dictate otherwise. So perhaps instead of shunning the past and trying in vain to bury it, work with it and the lessons it taught you to motivate small and progressive changes towards better places in the relationship. You are still going to have the urges to do what you did before and the situation will naturally tend to revert back to the way it was. Realize that, expect it, and tell him that you're going to try your best in the future to "catch and release" those urges should they surface again, because you are going to do this. Getting back together isn't the end here, it would only be a beginning, a beginning where a lot of the things in the past will be the same and a probably only a few things different. These changes will take time and won't come surely. You both have to be ready to have patience and dedication to nurturing these changes while at the same time not letting them overshadow the purpose of the relationship... Approach this as honestly and realistically as possible. Realize you guys are feeling very similar feelings and try to make a connection with those feelings. Talk about them...keep talking honestly...that's key...everything you told us here and that which you didn't tell us. Build deeper and richer levels of emotional and physical intimacy from the intimacy of communication. The other key is letting the effects of this communication sink in and releasing your desire to control the outcome of this. A difficult balance but one that can be achieved. I've seen it happen... First of all, I think you should re-communicate your pseudo-ultimatum when you said, "If we want to reconcile, it will be a clean slate with no using the past against each other and there must be a solid commitment on both sides to make this work even if we hit a bump or two along the way." Even though the second part is true, I can see this putting pressure on him and misconveying your purpose here. I think you should be direct and set some limits on the time spent in limbo, but maybe re-lay this out for him...something to the effect of... "I think we can do this, let's be patient with each and other and figure it out as we go. It won't be easy and we'll make mistakes but we'll do so together. I love you with all my heart and soul and I want to be with you baby." Leave it for a week or so and if you still get wishy-washed around, I'd start shifting focus towards moving onto making distance with this... I have a good feeling this is going to work out for you guys. Go for it...

The two most glaring points here are the fact you say you think she cares but she isn't showing it and the fact you posted this in the "Getting Back Together" forum. The notion of "Valentine's Day" is a hypnotic illusion bred from capitalist motivation that tells us we need to be in a relationship or there's something wrong with us (spend money), or if we are in a relationship, (spend money) and show our love for our significant other. Just look at all the booked-up reservations at restaurants and roses that suddenly cost 3-4 times as much as they do any other time of the year...times when you could just as well make an extra special expression of your love for your special someone... Anyway...back to your story... Your motivation here is bred from your sadness connected to your loneliness generated from this machinery I described above. Fight the power man, stand up to the man. This girl isn't showing you the goods because she doesn't want to. Either she hurts too much and wants to stay away or she despises you and wants to stay away. At any rate...she is staying away... The best thing, the most civil thing to do I think, is let her stay away. She wants the emotional distance, so give it to her, and take it for yourself. She likely doesn't care if you care, sorry to say. Keep your memories of her and what you had to yourself and accept the fact that it is OK for ends to come and people to distance themselves from each other... P.S. You've got some profound quotes by two solid authors in your signature there, especially for someone 16 years old. You're going to go places buddy...