charliek

shuz- Your situation is very similar to mine minus me being clingy, and our relationship was 5 years plus. . .but everything else, to the T! We have been broken up for about 2 months now and we have LC to NC. . .In the beginning I hated him b/c of the third party. I was so upset that after 5 yrs this girl could just come in and replace me just like that. . .I was miserable. . .but I worked really hard at focusing on me. . . and taking all that hurt and anger towards him and realized that it's not fair he gets to go out and live his life as if he's not hurting and i'm in bed wasting away, crying, etc. . .to me that was unattractive. So I got my butt up and started to go out. . .even if it was to a book store to try and find a book that would give me answers as to how to take this pain away. . .I stumbled upon one that really helped me. No it wasn't a step by step process BUT it was a reality check for me. The book, "its called a break up b/c it's broken," and many times I closed it and didn't want to admit that that was how my relationship was. . .but I always went back to the book and realized ok, yes that is my relationship and lets see how they delt w/ it. . . I still have my down days, but they are getting farther apart. But when they hit, they hit hard. But i know that is b/c I was in love w/ this man and shared a lot of good times w/ him and miss him. Not necissarily b/c I want him back. . . I did learn and am still learning htat my ex did and is hurting b/c we broke up. But the toughest part for me was he wasn't showing it the same way I do. . .so I couldn't recognize it.But now I separate him from me and realize his emails telling me he's thinking of me, his reactions to me going out w/ others, etc. . .is his way of showing me that he is hurting. But don't dwell on him anymore. This time it's about you! The pain does go away once you start focusing your attention on something you do have control over. . that's you!! Do things for you, not to impress him or try and win him back. . .do things that make you happy!! Thats all you have control over. . .for example, if you had your hand on a bunch of stick pins you would remove your hand right away to remove the pain right. . .well, remove him from your mind. . .every time you start to miss him, right down 5 things you want to accomplish as goals. . .start small each day! Make a goal that you know you will accomplish that day that makes you happy!! It gets better I promise. . . hugs

You have to trust your gut feeling. If something doesn't feel right then it probably isn't. . .whether or not someone is worth a second chance depends on your situation. But always trust your gut and set your own limits as to what you will and will not accept from this person if you do give them a second chance. . .and stick by those limits! Your gut won't lie to you, people do. . . .

i have been in your shoes. . .but my ex only was doing this with one girl and not two. . .if you don't put your foot down now, he will continue this trust me. . .Just saying ok I forgive you. . .Just b/c he's trying, he's trying to distract you and trying to make it seem as if you have no reason to ever check up on him. . . TRUST me. . . I went through this. . I was w/ a guy for 5 years lived w/ him for the last 2+ of our realaitonship and it only got worse. . .Every time I would catch him w/ a new txt msg or email. . .he would tell me he didn't know why she was emailng/txting him or that he'd put a stop to it. . .I'd forgive him and trust that he was telling me the truth b/c for the next few days after he'd get caught he would "try". . . .but every few weeks I'd find something new. . .and another lie, another I'll try etc. . . . Needless to say I couldn't take it anymore. . I could not stand the lies, the feeling that I constantly had of not feeling good enough for him, etc. . .I could not deal w/ it AT ALL ANY MORE. . .I had more self respect, dignity, and pride to let that happen to me anymore. . .And I am passing the same advice onto you. . .put a stop to it. . .b/c as soon as he knows he can dangle a ring, or do a good deed to make you "trust" him again. . .he will dance that dance the whole time you allow it. . . PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE for yourself put an end to it. . .you give them an inch they'll take a mile. . .TRUST ME!! you're strong enough to not put up w/ this. . .to not let anyone do this to you. . . .no one should ever make you feel this way about yourself. . . hugs

This may be hard to hear BUT hear me out. . .He may have given her an answer she didn't want to hear. They may have discussed "them" and he may have told her there is no "them". . . .she may have realized that he is just playing a game w/ her. . tested things w/ her to see if she still wanted him and as soon as she gave in, he had the ego boost he needed and said no thanks to her. . .(People are capable of it, ask my ex) But whatever the reason is that she said she hates him, she has told you this before and you need to discuss this with her. You need to find out what triggered in her mind to A) make her consider him and confuse her about you two and B) what happened to make her hate him all over again. . .Make sure everything was done for reasons that YOU can accept and never settle. . b/c if he ever comes back and says I've changed you need to be sure that she will stand her ground w/ him and show YOU off to HIM!! Good luck! hugs

What should I do now? If she calls later do I pick up? If she doesn't call at all when should I call her? How do I make her actually want to be with me and not want to go back to her ex? In all honesty, I would tell her that she needs to make a decision. It's not fair to either one of you. . .Putting your foot down now is my best advice. I went through this same thing and didn't put my foot down and my ex kept this other girl around for the whole last year of our relationship. I told him not to talk to her and that just caused him to lie about and in the end we are not together b/c I chose for myself to not be second best to anyone. . .to NOT share my bf's attention w/ another girl. I made him choose either her or me and have had NC at all for a week and a half. I will not let my self pride, dignity or respect for myself be belittled by someone who is trying to have their cake and eat it too. . . IF she calls and you want to talk to her about how you feel then do it BUT do not pressure her. . . .lay out what you are choosing for yourself. And if that means telling her to make a choice between you two, then so be it. But lay down the line now. . . If she doesn't call, let her be. She will figure it out on her own. They broke up for a reason AND if she told you she would never go back to this guy, something was defin. wrong in their relationship before and probably is still there. She'll find this out on her own, but DO NOT be that guy that tries to plead his case as to why she should be w/ you. . .SHE WILL figure this out on her own and that's the best way to have it. . .What happened w/ her ex is all new, exciting to her etc. But eventually that all fades and the truth of that relationship will be exposed and that's when it will hit her like a ton of bricks IF she tries to be w/ him again. AND the last question you asked. . .the harsh reality is YOU CAN'T! She needs to figure this out on her own BUT I promise you if you take a step back from her. . .give her her space she will start to wonder about you. She will start to question what to do. . .but IF you pressure her, call her and try to make her see that you are the better choice I promise you this will give her all the reason in the world to not be w/ you... That is the harsh reality.We always want what we can't have and if someone makes it too easy to be with them, if someone is throwing themselves at us and we have another option of someone who is acting as if they don't want to be w/ us. . .WE WILL ALWAYS GO AFTER THE ONE WHO DOESN'T SEEM TO WANT US. . .it's just human nature. . . Play it cool and let her figure things out on her own w/o any pressure from you. Let her know if you want that you have decided for yourself that you need to give her time and space to really figure out what she wants and you are willing to respect that. Give her credit that at least she told you and didn't hide it and pursue it behind your back. That should show you that she does care about you but is confused. . .Take a deep breath and give her time. . .Time is both your worst enemy and your best friend. . .BUT PLEASE I BEG YOU DONT PUSH HER FOR HER DECISION. . . hugs!

Ok I was where you are today about 2 years ago. My bf and I had been together by then 3 yrs, I was graduating college and all of my friends were getting married. BUT our relationship had issues. . .I knew this. but i wanted to be married. . .I did what you did, told him I'm not cleaning his house, I'm not giving it up any more, thinking why should he have all of this and I don't get what I want. . .but see that's where the problem was. He broke up w/ me b/c he didn't want to deal w/ this anymore so I went to go talk w/ someone about my relationship issues. . . come to find out I finally found what I was looking for. . .the truth about a misconception about marriage. . .and I will share it w/ you for free since it cost me money!! 1) Marriage is what I wanted but marriage is not what WE wanted. A marriage is about two people uniting as one, not one person focing the other to be legally bound to them forever. Once the excitement of the wedding is over w/. . .then you have the rest of your life to live w/ the fact that YOU forced him to do this and you will NEVER know if he truly feels/felt that way for you. . . 2) Marriage, an engagement ring, a piece of paper that says we are married DOES NOT solve any issues that are in the relationship prior to the marriage/engagement. None of those things wipes your relationship slate clean. ALL of the problmes that are there now, WILL still be there once that ring is put on your finger. It may make YOUR world seem perfect b/c you got that ring, but in HIS eyes, the issues that were there before ARE still there but now he's just added a debt to the whole scheme by buying you a ring that you forced him to buy . . .resentment may and probably will occur b/c you told him what to do, he's realizing he's losing control of what he is allowed to do w/ his life and money, he starts to second guess what he's doing, and in the end it will back fire on you. . .he will end it!! 3) Just b/c you have a ring or a marriage, does NOT mean that he will change. ALL of the things you feel he does wrong now, are not going away. These are 3 very hard lessons I learned and had to be told very bluntly to my face by someone outside of my circle of friends and him. . .Once I learned these lessons, I was able to build myself back up to WHO I AM W/ OR W/O him and not depend so much on him nor a ring to make me happy. Within a month we got back together and were together for another 2 years and let me tell you we are now no longer dating b/c of WHO HE IS. . . and I am so glad that we never did get married I have had a lot of friends go through divorce and it's way worse then just a break up. . .Trust me. Work on yourself, build up who you are and make sure HE is the one you want to spend the REST of your life w/. . .NOT just someone to have a wedding w/!! Hugs. . .

emotions can be our best friend or our worst enemy. . .during break ups, man I wish they didn't exist!! It's funny how just a brief encounter gets your body and mind to resurface all those feelings you have worked so hard to push away. . .but trust me you're being strong and please if she doesn't respond, let it go and don't waste another minute thinking about it. . .You've done great and by pushing the issue of why she didn't contact you will only make it worse!! Happy new year and what a great time to turn over a new leaf!! Stay strong!!

Take a deep breath and rest assure you ARE NOT ALONE. . .today is just your brick wall day! I am having one as well. . .but you need to know that you have done this for 28 days, and you will have days like today! But as time keeps going on, these days will come far and few. . .my suggestion is write about it on here. . .right ALL of your frustrations even if it's a pm to me. . .getting it out tends to clear the mind and may be that all you need to do. . for example, write to me as if I am here . .. don't hold anything back. Don't sugar coat anything. . .get it all out and send it to me. . . That way you know it's all out, it's been sent (not to her so she will never know) but to me. . .this is a lot more theraputic then you can imagine. You have a lot bottled up in you right now that pertains to her and you just need to release it. . .and when you have these days, that's what it is about. For all of these NC days, you have been doing great and it will get easier I promise. . . .but you have to realize. . .these days happen, it doesnt mean you took any steps back, it's just a day that your mind and body are telling you to take a moment and release. . .So try it and see what happens. . .then go do your hobby charliek

thank you every one! This defin. helps!! As all of you know we can be so strong for so many days and a brick wall smacks in our face one day out of the blue and it's a matter of picking yourself back up. But at least he is not able to see this side of me.To him I am the girl that is moving forward w/ or w/o him and it's easier for him to not deal w/ that and ignore me then to realize that he no longer has control of my emotions and my desires!! I promise myself and you all are my witness that I will never just settle, and although today I am feeling down about myself b/c of what he did, I know deep down inside this will pass w/o him ever knowing that I broke today!! thank you for the words of encouragement and it makes me believe again that there are good people in this world who do hurt and have feelings towards other people and how their actions affect others. Keep your heads up high as I will do the same!! Love ya all!!

thank you to both of you. I just am feeling down today. I think more then anything I feel rejected and have a hard time understanding why he wants to be w/ someone who litterally throws herself at him, when he for so many years has told me he wants someoen who is strong, independent, not needy, not clinging, gives him his space, etc. And I have been witness to how this girl is all of those things. I also don't understand people like her. I don't understand taht she thinks it's a normal behavior to be w/ someone or try for someone who is and has been in a long term relationship, that there's a child involved who knows me and wants us to be a family, etc. . . .I just am hurting right now and may be its more my ego that is crushed. . .I do feel stupid that i gave him so much and she didn't and she gets him. . .UGh!! I fight w/ the heart and mind but usually the heart wins w/ all the hurt that overwhelms the situation. . . thanks for the kind words. . .I want hm to realize his mistake. . LOL

So I was in a relationship for 5 yrs. The past year we have broken up two other times and both times he ran to the same girl and BOTH times he has dumped her to be back w/ me. This other gir has not stepped off at all towards my ex. While we were together she would pour her heart out to him about how she felt about him. . .knowing he was with me. Well he's not innocent in this, he let her do this, called her just as much, emailed her just as much, kept her on a string all along. Well this last time we broke up (for the 3rd time) it was b/c he had been lying to me about how much he was really still in contact w/ this other girl. I called and confronted her and that was that. . .Right away this girl dug her claws in even deeper now that we are not together. All the while he was still calling me, telling me not to move, that he still cares and loves me very much, etc. . .but yet he still could not leave this other girl alone. Well it got to the point that I finally gave him an ultimatum. I decided for myself that I have put up w/ this girl for over a year constantly being a part of our relationship. Every time they started talking again, his attitude towards me changed. . .So the week of christmas I told him I was staying and not moving and he told me that's good. That he thought we have a chance to reconcile. . .then since his family and child were coming into town I asked if he was going to introduce his child to this other girl since i wasn't going to be there (he had already told me that since things were up in the air he was telling his child that I was on vacation for the week w/ my family bc we did live together) he told me he didn't know. . .That's when I had had it. . . I told him that if he thought there was any chance for us, then he needed to take a big step back from this other girl and decide. That if he chooses to have her in his life, I am not willing to do this anymore. That I am not going to sit back and let him mess w/ both of our minds and I get put on the back burner while he decides who he wants. Never in 5 yrs have I said anything like this to him. NEver have I stood up for myself and he was quite taken back. Telling me he does not react well to ultimatums and that she would never make him choose. . .and I told him that's the difference between her and I, I have self respect and dignity and am not willing to do this anymore. . . He told by the end of the conversation that he'd let me know what his decision was. . . that was the week of christmas and I haven't heard a thing. I know that what i said was right, that I needed to put my foot down. I knwo taht w/ his child here and his family here all last week he threw himself into that and didn't want to dea w/ me probably b/c we keep fighting about this other girl. . .I also think he is testing me and my strength if I would really stand by this. At one point during one of our many arguments about this girl he told me that he knows I would never be able to stop talking to him. . .that's why I think he is waiting for me to break NC. . . after we broke up this time, he was contacting me about every other day if not every day. I never made the first contact. . .I do not want to be as pathetic as this other girl. She calls him 3 to 4 time a day and I know this is not the type of girl he wants. . .he claims they are not dating (or did a week and a half ago) b/c he may be moving closer to his child. He told me he wanted to find out where he is going b4 he made any decision about anyone. . .but I figured for the 5 yrs that I gave him my all and this girl has done nothing but be a rebound for him the past 3 times he has ended it w/ me, it just hurts that he's being this way. I am trying to be strong and just need some words of encouragement. What i did by telling him that its either her or me not both was the right thing to do. . .but today I am just sad b/c I didn't hear a thing from his nor his child over christmas and I ahve no clue what he's thinking or doing. . . for all I know he decided to be w/ her b/c it would be easier and no rules. . .and that sucks. . .but I know in my mind I don't want to be w/ someone like this but my heart still hurts for me. . . Just need some advice and words of enouragement. Today is a down day for me!!

I have gone through this w/ my recent ex as well. We were together for 5 yrs and this past year he broke up w/ me well let see this is number 3...all 3 times he has ran back to the same girl and in the end I am feeling like crap. BUT all 3 times I have learned the strength that I do have in me w/o him. And this last time that he has broken up w/ me I, like you, stood up for myself and told him things that I would never have said in the past b/c I was afraid of his reaction. This last time that he broke up w/ me he made all contact w/ me, telling me he missed me, telling me he didn't know what he wanted, etc. But yet this other girl was still in the picture. He too made me always question who I was, was i good enough, etc. Not b/c of his lifestyle but bc this other girl was always in the picture. But like you after taking a step back I gained the confidence and realize I don't want to be "THAT" girl. . .Not once have I ever asked to be back w/ him this time, in all honesty I have done the opposite of everything I had done in the past that included and ultimatum or I guess more of a choice then anything. I chose for myself that this other girl would not be apart of my life anymore and if he felt the need to have her continue to be in his life then I would no longer be apart of his life. . .He told me the same things you are hearing. . .that he had never seen this side of me, or hadn't seen this strong side of me for a long time. That the strong girl is who he fell for. . .told me the same thing that right now we can't be back together b/c of all the drama, etc. . .that I needed to give him time to figure out what he really wanted. . .Needless to say, NC has been made between us AT ALL since that day. Not even for christmas and we were together for 5 yrs. . . What you need to do is hear what he is saying and take his words seriously. IF he really feels what he told you, the conversation you had w/ him rattled him just as much as it did you. IT gave him a lot to think about which is why he is saying that right now you can't be together. .give him his space BUT don't sit around waiting for him. LIVE YOUR LIFE b/c who knows this new guy may be your prince charming and you don't want to let that slide b/c you are waiting for your ex to make up his mind!! Give him his space, stay strong and let him straighten out what his issues are. You have said everything he needs to hear. . .he sees you for you now. . . and will make his decision based on that. BUT by the time he figures this out, it might be too late...you may have your prince charming right in front of you, don't let your ex blind you!! Take time for yourself and let your ex do the same. . .Girls are very well known for replaying conversations so they can tare it apart for any meaning and chance of hope. . .but just take word for word what he said at face value. . .he still said you can't be together right now. . .and that's what he means! So give him his space!

LC, If this is how you truly feel. . .that there is something within you that is not allowing you trust waht he is saying. . .Don't put this back on him. IF he is doing everything you ask to show you that he wants to be with you and it's not good enough for you right now, you need to go talk with someone who can help you through this. There is nothing wrong w/ having questions about yourself and getting help for that. I did it and I build on the information my counselor gave me every day. But if you keep asking for more from him to show you and he does these things, you will eventually push him away and he will get tired of trying. And I don't think you want this. Try talking with someone who can get you back to where you don't have to question his love for you. That him being w/ you is more then enough and you can then enjoy ALL of the time you have w/ him instead of wasting time doubting him. If you love this man, you owe it to him and yourself to figure get help in figuring out what is really making you question him. . .You have a good thing going, so don't push him away b/c you may not get another chance. Go give him a hug and look in his eyes and quit saying "yeah but if she comes back to you would you go back to her. . ." In all honesty asking him this question, it will just get him to rethink a decision he already made. . he chose you. . .why make him reconsider this? Why push him to even reconsider this? don't make him look bakc at his decision, he's trying to move on but you won't let him. . . IF you truly believe everything you said to me, give the guy a break. . .and try and realize he chose me. . .and that's it. . .NO but what if she comes back, no but what if he feels stronger for her. . .JUST TAKE STEP BACK AND HEAR EXACTLY WHAT HE IS TELLING YOU. . .

If you have no feelings for this girl. . .DONT DO ANYTHING. Girls look for any sign of hope. Trust me I use to be this way. The girl will try to push herself back into the ex's life no matter at what it is costing them (their pride, dignity,etc) Anything to get you thinking about them and contact them . .The need for contact by you to them, means you have to talk to them and they have the chance to over analize what you said to them. . .they will pick apart everything and make hope out of whatever you said to them . .you could be completely neutral to her during the conversation not mentioning anything about the two of you, and end the conversation w/ I'll talk to you later. . .This to a girl means, osee he still wants to talk to me. . .If you have no desire to be w/this girl, please don't lead her on. Your gut is telling you she still wants more then just a friendship. The whole notion of not being able to move onto another guy bc she still thinks of you is a red flag that she A. is trying to make you jealous that she has the opp. to be w/ other guys, but yet lets you know she isn't doing anything w/ them b/c she wants to still be w/ you. . .B. Is telling you loud and clear how strong her feelings for you are still to this day. . . Girls think very emotionally and usually do whatever they can whether it's lowering themselves to the lowest of low w/o even thinking. . .Leave this girl alone like you have been. One day it's going to hit her how stupid she is being or was being to get your attention. AT that point then yes a friendship could have a possiblity. . .but until she realizes her actions, stay away IF you don't want anything but a relationship w/ this girl!!

Listen to your heart. What you told him is right. . .you can't be w/ a guy who has feelings for another. Trust me I was in a 5 yr relationship w/ a guy that every time we broke up this last year he ran back to the same girl for a month then get back w/ me. In one year we broke up 2 times and both times he went to her. This girl NEVER left him alone and it only fueled his feelings that he still had for her. He too could not leave her alone which made her only try harder for him. It made our relationship miserable b/c even though I was his gf I could see him fighting w/ himself about me and her. . .He started lying to me about having contact w/ her, but my gut new he was still talking w/ her. . .so I finally confronted this girl and well my ex broke up w/ me over it. In the end though, I don't take it back b/c now I know the truth, I never have to second guess myself, I will never have to worry what is he doing w/ whom. . .She does. We have been broken up for about a month and a half and I ahve stood my ground w/ this guy. This girl is still looking foolish b/c he is stringing her along and she STILL calls him all the time and throws herself at him. . .but I don't even have to try and he calls me, or emails me, or goes and does things w/ me. . .whether or not she knows? I don't know but now she has all of the doubts that I did. . .he claims they are not dating but this girl I don't think sees it that way. . .but in the end, stand up for yourself and put your foot down. I finally about a week and a half ago told my ex that I could not be apart of his life if he chooses to keep this girl in his life. He tells me he thinks that we will get back together and I told him if he feels this way he needs to leave this girl alone then. . .he told me he didn't like the ultimatum and I shouldn't be tellinghim who can and can't be in his life. And I told him that I was making a choice for myself that I don't want her a part of my life and if he wants her in his life, then I don't need him in my life. . .You should never enter a relationship w/o trust. . .never enter a relationship that is going to make you question both yourself and him. . .if you never feel secure about your relationship it's not worth it. . .it will tare you down, it will make you constantly think that you're not good enough b/c the man you are w/ has these feelings for someone else. .. trust me it's an ugly place to be in adn if I can stop it for you I will. . .DONT do it until he chooses for himself to let this girl go bc she MAY NOT leave him alone and constantly make him question you and your relationship. . .Theres so much better out there trust me I am finding!!

Pikey, Everything that you have discovered is so great! I am at the place where you are w/ the ex. . .meaning we tried the friends thing but I couldn't handle it b/c there is another girl that is inolved w/ him and has been constatnly in his life and wanting to be w/ him even while we were dating. I finally told him I couldn't not be apart of his life knowing she meant enough to keep around even if it hurt me. . . meaning if she means more to him then me and the 5 years I gave to him, if she means more to him as a agirl who is weak, has no self respect, dignity or pride, then by all means go be w/ her b/c that's not who I am nor i will ever be. I feel so good about myself, am working every day to be stronger, and Know for a fact that I don't NEED him. . .yes i'd like to be w/ him. But I choose for myself to not be w/ him under any circumstances. . .That my self worth is higher then to allow him to have me and everything I give him AND to have this other girl around. . . I am very proud of you for keeping yourself busy, seeing friends, and doing everythign but focusin on him it takes a strong woman to do this and that' what you are. . .I would also suggest you take this month to take a step back and realize the good and the BAD about this guy and your relationship. Once you realize the REAL relationship the good and the bad you may not want to be w/ him nor tell him how you feel. Right now your feelings are still fresh and you still see him as a good guy!! WHich he probably is, but please for yourself take a look at the whole picture!! and make sure that he is what you really want to be with. Stay strong. . .

Lc, First and foremost, you need to trust your gut. If deep down inside something is telling you this isn't right or not to trust him. . .usually there are reasons for this. . .that you are ignoring bc you want things to be fine. I was where you were. i was w/ my ex for 5 years, we broke up last oct. for a month, w/in a week he was w/ another girl. . .we got back together, he never really let her go, in Feb. he cheated on me w/ another girl, broke up w/ me in March and was back w/ the other girl w/in a week again. . .I was done w/ him at that time. (we lived together) so I started packing stuff up, we talked and got back together and he dumped this other girl AGAIN (that makes two times) he told me he would not talk to her anymore etc . . .well about 3 months ago his attitude started changing again towards me, i asked if he was talking to this other girl again and he said no. . .two days later I found a txt msg w/ a msg from her saying how much she loved him still and its just hard on her. . .he told me again he'd put a stop to it. Instead, it only escalated things. .. he told me the same as your ex, that I was the only one he wanted to be w/, that it was all in my head, etc. But yu know what, actions speak louder then words. ..so one morning he was running late, he forgot his phone upstairs so i grabbed it for him and notced he had just received a txt from her AGAiN. . .So I asked him about it he lied and said he didn't know why she was calling. . .he tried turning it around on me trying to make me feel crazy for even asking about it. .. so I had had enough, i called the b***h... come to find out EVERY GUT feeling I had was true, except the fact that he had cheated on me w/ her physically. . .it was all emotional. . . He was unable through out our whole relationship to leave her alone. . .Needless to say we broke up that day.. . .that was about a week before Thanksgiving. . .WE tried to keep in contact w/ one another (more on his part then mine) but the week of Christmas I had had enough b/c this other girl was still in his life. . . .and still trying to be w/ him and he was doing nothing but leading her on. . . So I made a decision for myself. . .I do not want this girl apart of my life AT ALL so what that means is that IF he wants me in his life, he can't have her in it as well. . .he told me that he thinks theres a chance for us to get back together. . .and I told him if he really truly believes this then HE NEEDS TO TAKE A STEP BACK FROM HER. . .leave her alone. He told me he hates ultimatums and I said that's fine if that's how you want to view this. . .but for me it's a choice for myself. . .I am not going to be insecure w/ a relationship b/c you feel the need to hold onto someone else. . .there's not enough room for 3 people in a relationship meant for two people. . .I am standing by this. . .and it's funny b/c it's almost liberating knowing that I stood up for myself and KNOW for a fact that i choose for myself to not be w/ someone who will always make me question me, make me feel second to someone other girl, and worst of all question my relationship w/ who I am with. I will never settle for someone I don't trust. . .it will eat at you. But there have to be other things going on in your relatinoship that are making you second guess it. . . don't hide from these things b/c they may be swept under the rug for awhile but ultimatly they always come back to haunt you IF they are not dealt w/!! You are a strong woman, I have read your post to others. . .DONT SETTLE. . .and don't ever be afraid to stand up for yourself. IF you approach him about your insecurities that he is making you feel and he pushes it back on you saying it's in your mind. . .and you know that's not true. . .Then stand up to him and get the answer you want. . .get the actions you want to make your relationship back on track. . if he is unwilling to do this for you. . do you want to be w/ him for the rest of your life??? No one deserves to take away your dignity adn pride. . .Trust is a huge issue in a relationship and if it's not there, what are you building on? What then is your foundation? Love and trust come hand and hand!! Be strong!!

Ok b/c I have been where you are I am going to tell you, trust your gut! It doesnt lie to you, people do! My ex did similar things and come to find out he was calling and txt his ex. ..he did exactly what your bf is doing to you. . telling you that you are parinoid!! I got this lecture all the time. . .I also got the lecture about why don't you trust me, if you don't trust me then we will never work out etc. . .and come to find out what I was told I was accusing him of, that my gut told me he was doing, I was right. . .You and only you know your bf and you want to tell that annoying pit in your stomach to go away. . .but you can't b/c you know that something is not right w/ this situation. In my case I was too afraid to bring it up b/c I didn't want to upset him. . .but I got to the point that I knew it wasnt' right. . .and realized I needed to stand up for myself. . .if he has nothng to hide, he will not be upset w/ you. . .but if he's lying, the only thing he can do is turn it back around on you and make you question yourself. . .trust me I know I have been there. W/ my ex, I was bringing his phone to him at 6 am and this other girl txt him and I had had enough of the lies. . .I knew he was lying to me. Trying to tell me that he didnt know why she was txting him. . .so I called her. . .and you know what the lesson out of this story is??? TRUST YOUR GUT IT TELLS YOU THESE THINGS TO PROTECT YOU. . .You can't shake those feelings of knowing he's lying and you know and said yourself he is not the most trusting guy in the world. . . I think you need to get yourself respect back and realize that if he has already protrayed himself as a guy who has such a lack of respect for you that he's already been inappropriate w/ girls via the internet. . WHY ARE YOU PUTTING UP W/ THIS. . .there is no reason for it. . .why would you want to live the rest of your life questioning him, not trusting him, etc. If you are too afraid to confront him, or in question of how to bring it up, is that what you want out of a partner? To not be able to come to them w/ your fears and questions? Trust me I know its a game you play w/ yourself b/c he has in away trained you to not confront his behavior of lack of respect to you. He'll make you feel like you are in the wrong for even brining it up. . . . but stand up for yourself, he's already broken your trust once why wouldn't he do it again? I don't mean to sound harsh, but i want you to understand that you have so much more pride, dignity and self respect to put up w/ games like this. There are so many other guys that you yourself have been w/ to know this isn't right. . .take a step back and realize you give him a yard he'll run w/ a mile. . .and he's already doing it. . .You are stronger then this. . .no man is worth the turmoil and the questioning sick feelings you have in your stomach. . . But only you can control that and put a stop to it. . .Hang in there and be tough. Realize that you are worth so much more then this!! I know you strong woman self is in there somewhere. . .

Holy cow I am going through something similar just today. I was with a guy for five years, lived together the last 2 plus years and for the past year at least there has been another girl he has kept on the back burner. We broke up twice in the past year and every damn time he runs to her and starts dating her w/in a few days of us not being together. Well, we got back together and needless to say he still kept in contact w/ her and lied to me about it. He got caught and she got caught. This dumb girl constantly was emailing him that she loved him and wanted to know if they ever had a chance to be together. Well it worked. . .we broke up b/c of this right b4 thanksgiving. Well she just dug her claws in even more. .. doing everythign she can to be around him, calls him 4 times at least a day, etc. . .well him and I tried to do the friends thing and up until yesterday I was all set w/ a new job opp. in a new state. . .I was ready to move. . .and he didn't want me to. . .he constantly since he found out I got a job offer has been telling me all I want to hear. .. the I love yous, the I miss you's, etc. . .but the whole time, he's still hanging out w/ this girl. . .so today, my current job here I love, and I have a lot of respons. and if I took this new job it would be a huge step back. . .on top of that i got a raise and a bonus. . .so I decided I wasnt going to let him or her win anymore. . .I decided to stay and he called to find out what I had decided today. . .so I told him and he tells me that he thinks things are in the air for us that he thinks we may get back together. . .and I told him that if he is even CONSIDERING this. . that he needs to step back from this other girl. That I am not going to sit here and let him try w/ her and when it doesnt work out for the third tim in one year I will NOT be here waiting. That he needs to either figure things out w/ us w/o having her in his life or he is losing me for good. . .This is the firsttime in 5 yrs that I have told him anything like this. . .SAYING THis OUT LOUD MEANS YOU ARE NOT ONLY HOLDING YOURSELF ACCOUNTABLE BUT THE PERSON YOU ARE SAYING IT TO WILL HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE FOR IT. . . He told me he would let me know what his decision is. . .either me or her and not both. . .so I say stand up for yourself. . . .he is not woth it and everytimg you open that door and let him in, he walks away with a little piece of your dignity!! And NO GUY IS WORTH THAT. . .Especially the ones who try to take their cake and eat it too. . .take back the power and control over you. . .he has it now!! He doesn't deserve you. . .and you dont deserve a guy like this. . .he knows ALL of your buttons!! Good luck hun and we're here for you to vent on!!

Cap. Be strong. I'm in this same situation and I do pick up every time he has called, He tells me loves me, thinks he made a mistake, all that stuff BUT theres another girl involved. She's been involved for the past year of our relationship. We were together for 5 yrs and he couldn't leave her alone. And now that we are broken up the cycle still continues. . .he tells me all of that stuff, but like this weekend he told me he was going to be with her all weekend. . .and that it's just friends. . .I have decided not to call him ever since we broke up a month ago. He always calls me or emails me. . .but it's just messing w/ my mind. You start to feel strong when you don't contact him and yes its an ego boost to hear all of that stuff. . .but it knocks you right back down when something like this (where he's w/ the other girl) happens. And you feel like you have to start all over in rebuilding yourself. You are doing the right thing by staying strong. Control is a nasty thing and makes people resort to the lowest of low things if they had control and suddenly its taken away. Trust me it does drive him crazy that you are not responding to him. . .and yes it could be b/c deep down inside its b/c he misses you and knows he messed up. .. but if you don't want to be w/ him. . then as hard as it is NC for 60 days! Even if he calls. ..NC at all. . .you shouldn't have to change your number b/c of him. . that's him controling your motions. . .just if you don't recognize the number don't answer it. If it's someone you know, they'll leave a msg. If he txt msg you erase it w/o even reading it. . .OR read it and laugh at his pathetic attempts to get you to call him back. . .that HE is losing his dignity, NOT YOU!! Hang in there and remember you do have control of yourself and what happens to you!!

So I was with a guy for over 5 years and we broke up just before thanksgiving. The reason we broke up is because there is a girl that he dated before me for a couple months and then dated again last year for a month while we were broken up. This girl, for some reason for the past year he hasn't been able to just leave her alone. He claimed she was a good friend, but also that yeah at some level he still had feelings for her but I was and am still told is nothing compared to how he feels about me. Well for the last 2 or 3 months we were together his attitude changed towards me. He was grumpy, I couldn't do anything right, he drank more, he was depressed etc. I had asked if he was talking to her again he told me no. Well come to find out that was a lie and I found a txt msg about how she still loved him. So I confronted him, he told me he'd put a stop to it. . .Well things didn't get better w/ us. So I asked again if he had talked to her or seen her and he'd tell me no and lecture me about not trusting hima nd how him and I will never work out if I don't trust him. Three days after that I found another txt msg early in the morning from her. I again confronted him, he lies to me and I tell him I am going to put a stop to it since he wouldn't. Needless to say I called her, talked to her, he called to find out if I called her, I said yes and he broke up w/ me.. . . .This girl admitted to me that he had treated her badly 6 years ago when they dated, she heard the lies he was telling me about her, she found out the lies he was telling me, etc. And whoa and be hold this girl called him that day he broke up w/ me, called him to get together w/ him that Friday and sure enough they messed around w/ each other and she ahs called him at least 2 times every day since. . . . So since then, this girl STILL is trying to be with him. I moved out of his house a week after we broke up. He ended up calling me telling me that he missed me. . . and we've been trying the "friend" thing. The difference is, I have been offered a job in another state adn I have to decide in 3 days what I am going to do. If I stay here it will just upset me knowing that he potentially could be w/ her and I could run into the two of them out. NOT WHAT I wANT TO DO. . .So he tells me he isn't with her and not trying to be in a relationship w/ her at all b/c he too is trying to move to another state. . . .But heres the kicker, last Tuesday night we got into a HUGE fight b/c I hate this girl and don't understand why even we were dating he continued to hang out w/ her and why even now he HAS to have her in his life. . . .sorta thing. . .well long story short he said really crappy things to me such as that he's turning his back on me for a long while and he didn't knwo when he'd talk to me next, that I would never see his child again who loves me to death and doesn't even knw we are not together, told me that he hated me, etc. Prior to all this he tells me he doesnt' want me to move, that he loves me still, tells me that he is confused, tells me that he knows he f'd up w/ me and hates himself for hurting me so bad, etc. And then he is a jerk to me.As of Tuesday I was ready for seperation from him. I was ready to just move on w/ my life. Well then. . .he contacts me AT WORK wanting to know if I had accepted the job out of state. . . I was furious. . .acting as if nothing had happened two nights prior to that. . .So I called him and come to find out he said he wanted ot knwo hwa tI was up to. . .he had seen a project of mine that I had been working on at work had been all over the news and had complimented me about htat. But then asked what my decision was as far as moving. I had told him I couldn't talk to him about it at work. . .so he says well I can't talk about it tonight b/c I have plans, I can't talk about it tom. night b/c I have plans, and I can't talk about it Saturday night b/c I have plans. . .So I asked what are you talking about. And so he proceeds to tell me he had plans w/ this other girl Thursday nihgt, his Christmas Party Friday night and then he was going to her christmas party Sat. night (Or tonight). I was furious. He's telling me this at work. . .tells me its not that big of deal that he had told her he'd go like 2 weeks ago and couldn't back out. . ."I'm like whatever its your life you do what you want. I hope you two have a good time." And he's "why are you being like that. . . ." So I told him I had to go. . . . Well Friday morning he emails me again at work. . .and had got online and looked at my project on line. . sent me an email about how proud of me he is and basically told me again everything he had just said the day before to me about this project. . . .I don't get it. . .So I didn't respond to him AT ALL. . .I am still very hurt and tonight he's out at a christmas party w/ her and I am here just hurting. . . . I have done really well w/ not calling him. . He always calls me. Last weekend we hung out all day and night Saturday night and had a good time. . .SHE CALLED 5 times during this. . .he never answered her calls. . .I hate this girl. . .lol! I'm struggling though w/ my feelings. I don't want to be w/ him and have to deal w/ this crap of not trusting him when it comes to her. But right now I am so sad and hurt that he's with her. . .it's like she has won. . .I wish he'd just leave her alone but I know I need to take this job and just get away from this drama. My question is if he doesnt want to be w/ me and wants to be w/ her then why is he still calling, still contacting me etc. He was the one tuesday that said that he wanted major seperation from me. . .and I was ok w/ that. . .and then he contacts me? I don't get it. . . .help me. . .

The only thing I can figure is that he is scared I'll break up with him- ummm m m no he wants his cake and eat it to. HE knows he has a good thing w/ you. . and he KNOWS he can get away with what ever he wants when it comes to other girls. He tested the waters and each time he tests, he see's how much it'll take before you try to put your foot down. But even when you do try to put your foot down, alls he has to do is give you a ring, and then he can continue on w/ what he wants to do with other women. Basically he knows that he is doing wrong, but doesn't care b/c he KNOWS that you will always be there. Stand up for yourself. You said yourself, you know that he's not going to change. Not now at least. Why would he, he gets away with this crap and you stay with him. . . . I don't mean that to sound harsh but it angers me b/c I like I said was in the same boat. . .but the best feelings is when you get to tell them "NO I am not going to allow YOU to do this to me anymore. . ." As soon as you take ALL of the control over you back away from him he will freak out. I am not saying he's a control freak meaning not letting you go or do anything. But I guarentee you b/c I have been there, that you know he has control over how you feel about yourself and that's even worse. But as soon as you decide for yourself that you are not going to allow that anymore, and he starts to sense your independence from him, watch him squirm. . .I hate the excuse of money for not being able to get out of a bad relationship. If he was beating you I am almost positive that if you didn't have a dime to your name, you would get out w/ your son. You would have friends and family that would help you out to better your future. I bet that they would in this situation as well. . . but please if you do have to live w/ him or whatever. . .start getting yourself back to that confident woman who doesnt put up with this crap. its a great feeling!!

ok I believe in forgiving people. I really do. . .I am in a similar situation as you. I've been with a guy for 5 years and another girl has ALWAYS been in our lives. For over the past year I have had to deal w/ this girl constantly calling, emailing, txt msg, etc telling him how she loves him, wants to be w/ him, etc. But he lied to me. . .CONSTANTLY about talking to her and seeing her. Just recently, about a month ago, he got a txt msg from her at 6 am i asked what is that about and he said he didn't knwo. . .so i decided for myself to confront her. I called her. . .learned of many lies he was telling me. In the end it made her look stupid, made her look like she was after him, etc. Him and I broke up, b/c I confronted her. BUt I learned the truth. THis girl is STILL Trying to be with him. But you know what, I don't have to deal with it anymore. Once a third party is brought into the relationship, it makes you question everything about yourself. . .and I realized I do not want to be with anyone who makes me feel that way. Since we've broken up I have learned the following from him and take this for what it's worth. The reason he kept in contact w/ her even though he knew it hurt me and pissed me off was b/c it made him not feel and I quote "so committed" b/c we weren't married yet. And by me telling him no please don't talk to her (no matter what the reason was he only heard me say no) he chose to talk to her b/c he wasn't that committed as in marriage . . .it made him feel better about himself. Again, I fully understand where you are coming from and am here for you. But the moment YOU don't stand up for YOU and how he makes you feel, he will test the waters. . .first it was an inncocent im thing w/ the girl in TX, then progressed to him playing the victim (I got these stories too. . .) and who know what will happen next. . . It's a very unhealthy environment and is no way for you to live the REST of your life. . .think about that. . .THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. . .forgiving him is one thing, which i have done w. my ex. Knowing that in your gut that you don't believe, trust, etc him is another. You do not deserve to be treated this way and you know it. . .now its just a matter of getting you back to you. He isn't respecting you AT ALL. . so start respecting yourself. . .YOU KNOW she didnt force that rubber on him. . .YOU KNOW your gut is screaming at you "GET OUT NOW". . .your gut will never lie to you. . .he will. . .he has. . .and will continue to. . .seriously read the book "its called a break up b/c it's broken" I know u are not broken up but read it. . .you relate to me and what i went through and I related. . .its a light humored book to let you know. . YOU ARE NOT ALONE. . .if you need to vent or ask question etc, im here. . . but until you help yourself, it won't get better. . . if he KNOWS YOU NEED him, he will run with this and already has. . .YOU DONT NEED HIM. . .trust me!! You are so much stronger then you know. . .

The best thing you can do after a break up and really get started on your new life. . .first and foremost start seperating you from your ex. Meaning start writing down what you want to do. . .not what you thing you would want your ex to do. . .or what you and your ex would do. . .but all of those things that were inside of you that you didn't do b/c of your ex. . .Then each day try to complete at least one of those things. My ex and I broke up after 5 years together not to long ago, like a month ago. I started right away to figure out what is going to make me happy w/o him. What excites me where I don't even have to think about him. . .and so I picked a city that is so different from where I live now, applied for jobs went on interviews and now tomorrow I have to decide if I am moving. . .Right after the break up I was irrate towards my ex. . .he had broken up w/ me 2 times prior to this and I knew that I had had it. . .So the best thing that ever happened to me, I dug very deep down inside of me and started to reinvent myself in a sense to gain all of my strength back. I wanted to prove to him (at first) and myself (now) that I don't NEED him. . .yes I WANTED to be w/ him but I don't NEED him to live my life or to define my happiness. And what's pretty funny is sense my ex and I broke up we have hung out and we've talked a lot and he knows I have this big decision to make and now he's scared. . .now he's admitting he messed up ( another girl has been after him for the past 3 years and he was unwilling to end their "friendship" even though she was telling him how much she loved him and wanted to be w/ him etc. He also lied and got caught about how much he was talking to and seeing her) I have finally these past few weeks been able to stand up for me and tell him I have so much more pride in myself, more self respect, and confidence in myself then obviously this other girl b/c I know I am going to be so OK w/o him. That I would rather be alone then to ever have to deal w/ a relationship where the guy I am w/ prefers the attention of more then one girl. . . .Anywho. . he has seen all of this confidence and now is second guessing our break up. Is telling me to stay, is telling me he's scared of me leaving etc. But you know what, almost every time after I come home from seeing him, I get online to look for apartments in this new city. . .b/c I am sooooooooo excited to discover and explore this new city and find out who I am w/o him so the next luck man that comes into my life, I know I will NOT compromise again who I am. So that if things don't work out btwn me and the new guy, it'll be ok and I won't have to question what am I going to do w/ my life now. . .Does that make sense? Also a friend of mine who was going through a break up as well told me to pick up this book. I HATE self help books so I refused and refused and then finally one day liek you I was searching everywhere for answers, for someone to relate to me and go through this w/ me, to find someone or something to tell me NOW WHAT I was going to do (which is how I found this site) well I went and got the book. . .it's called it's called a break up b/c it's broken. . .get it, read it and trust me its not a step by step here's how you're are feeling and here's how to fix it. It's a book by a husband and wife team who explains what they went through and it is so relateable. . .at times points out things that you are currently doing and calls u out on your behavior (those moments I threw the book accross the room. .. didn't want to admit they were right!!LOL) But it helped me alot to have to admit to myself. .they were right. My relationship was broken and that's why it didn't work. . . but try it!! And this site is awesome in helping as well. . .I am always willing to listen to venting. . .and always willing to dishout advice!! Good luck and remember, enjoy this time alone, the next person who comes into your life may be the one and you may NEVER be able to enjoy just you time w/o having to answer to anyone again!!

Ok I have probably one of the biggest decisions to make in my life tomorrow. A little history first. My ex and I had been together for 5 plus years and broke up about a month ago or so for the third time this year. There is sort of a 3rd party involved. A girl who for the last 3 years at least has had a thing for my ex. I was ok w/ them conversing for awhile until this last year I had had enough. I would find out that she's telling him how she still loves him (they dated 6 years ago for 2 months) and that she wanted to know if there would ever be any opportunity for the two of them to ever get together etc. The past two times that my ex broke up w/ me the first person to call him and he goes out w/ is her. . .but both times he dumped her to get back together w/ me. Well the past 4 months things were rocky w/ my ex and I. And I can always tell his mood swings seeing as how we'd been together for so long. Plus my gut feeling was telling me somethings up. Come to find out he had started conversing w/ this girl again and she had told him she was moving to another state and that she was wondering if they could meet up one last time (she is not moving til May if she's telling the truth!) So anyways she started txting him msg that I saw that said she still loves him so much and that its hard on her that he's w/ me, etc. . .PATHETIC she's been doing this crap for at least 2 years now. Well anyways about a month ago I had had enough of this chick. . .so I called and confronted her. . .told her the lies my ex was telling me about her, etc. Well my ex asked if I had called her and I said yes, b/c I was tired of him lying to me about how much they talked to each other and saw each other (come to find out has only been once (once too many) since him and I got back together this last time) anywho he broke up w/ me b/c I had called her. And I was fine w/ this. . .I am not going to be involved in a relationship liek this. So I started applying for jobs out of state and went and interviewed and actually received offers. Well since my ex and I broke up, him and I have still been in contact and have talked a lot. . .BLUNTLY HONEST w/ one another about a lot of things. Nothing to the point where any physical cheating occurred. . .but basically I have told him that i am leaving the state bc I am not going to stay in this town and fear every time i go out that I may run into the two of them. He keeps telling me he doesn't know that he'll start dating her (he too is applying for jobs in another state not the same one as me but another state where his child currently lives) he is waiting to find out if he gets this job and then he's going to move. But if he doesn't get this job he will stay where we currently live. But he keeps telling me his main focus is only to get this job and move closesr to his child. If that doesn't happen, then he will go fromt here. Anywho, I also have talked to him about this girl. She is 5 years younger then he and she's at that age where she's from a small town, all her friends are married, she hasn't had a steady long term bf in over 3 years, etc. My ex and her are not even dating and she calls him ALL THE TIME, she questions him as to why he wants to hang out w/ me, etc. All the things a gf would do. . .and I just hate/don't trust this girls intentions, ie wanting a husband!! But my ex and I have been talking about how my ex has never really known even the 5yrs we were together what he really wants. As of yesterday I was told and am so happy he finally admitted to himself what I have always felt in my gut, that the reason he kept in contact w/ her while still w/ me, even though I opposed it and it hurt me, was b/c it made him realize in his own little way that he's not committed as in a marriage. . .He is so afraid of marriaage!! I know that time apart is what we need both of us, Me to forgive him and figure out if I could ever really trust him and for Him so he can figure out if losing me forever is ok w/ him b/c he doesn't want to ever be committed as in marriage. Last night he told me he really wants us to work out and he feels that I should stay here if he has to stay here so that we can still hang out together. But I told him that I am not willing ot be involvd w/ someone who is not willing to let a "friendship" w/ a girl who has such strong feeligns for him, go. That I have too much pride to be w/ someone who is allowing a third party to interrupt him and I and our future. That she has no self esteem, no self respect, etc. and that for 2 years at least I have had to put up w/ this * * * *. ThaT I have tried to be understanding that they are friends, but a girl needs to know when to back off. (WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND) I have noticed ever since i started pointing things out to my ex as in look at how many times she calls you, (which he is NOT a phone person when he's at work, he's at work attitude) She asks him questions about him and I as if they are dating and they're not, etc. Last night she called 3 times when I was w/ him. . . But my tough decision is, do I stay here or do I move. I have to accept or decline my job offers on Tuesday. and if I do accept, I move next month. The other factor is his child. I love that child as if she was my own. She actually told her dad if I can't move w/ him up to where she lives, she doesn't want him to move at all and stay where we live now so that him and I will be together. She doesn't know right now that we are not together. . .another tough thing. . .I know I have too much pride to stay here and wait. But the other factor I absolutly love my job here. I am in a professional field and have worked very hard for where I am at right now. But I know that this new firm where I'd go to is also a good opportunity. Not necs. an advancement in career, just a different company, location, etc. I'd be excited to be in a new state/city to explore and would be able to go out w/o the fear of running into him w/ someone else. I'd be able to be me. If I stay here and eh's here . . .I'd be sooooooooo afraid for quite awhile to go out in fear of running into him. I also have too much pride to wait for any guy especially one that I gave EVERYthing to for 5 years and he still is afraid of committment. . .But him and I did have a great relationship minus her. But every time she comes around, his attitude changes (mostly b/c he was beating himself up for lying to me about talking to her) but he'd shut down on me. . .but w/o her around. . .it was great! PLEASE any advice I would appreciate!! Thanks. ..sorry for the long post~