Is he just not into me after all?

[j.man]

j.man, great post and I thought exactly as you pretty much throughout this thread until Monday night when Lex texted him and let him know, in a calm, respectful, no-accusatory manner, that she'd like a bit more communication/interaction in between dates.

 

His response? To ignore her text, ignore her.

 

My attitude switched after that, because to me that is telling, and not in a good way.

 

Lex called him the following night to further discuss, apparently they had a nice chat, but nothing since and no plans for the weekend.

 

But other than that, I do agree this is more about different natures and incompatibility as I've been posting until the incident Monday night.

Was just about to make an edit with that concession. I don't condone what he did. It's not what I would have done. However, it does seem the OP is rather fond of broaching dramatic topics over SMS, and particularly if this guy is the one putting in this time and effort to come out and see her, I can perfectly well imagine him just putting the phone down like "you know... I just don't want to do this right now" when she's insecurely asking if her texts are too much and then following up with how she wishes they'd communicate more when, by all her accounts absent this occasion, he's been well responsive despite not being one to text. Again, it's not excusable, but I'd consider it much more of him being quite literal with the notion of "I don't know what to tell you." But then again, when he did basically say just that after she followed up, that wasn't sufficient.

 

Being frank, when I said this thread is exhausting, it's by and large been the OP. If she's not directly approaching topics over SMS which are much better suited and appropriate for any of the times they'd been across the table from one another, it seems like she's on a couple occasions tried to passively commentate on their dating through whatever convenient anecdotes. And that's just accounting for what's been shared with us. I'm wondering whether him simply being him and having his style of communication really hasn't been brought up before, whether directly or through some story about her friend Becky's boyfriend not texting her enough. Even if not, by the time it got to that interaction, I think he just threw his hands up.

 

When the OP is lamenting a text saying he's gonna try to get off work early to see her as "not enthusiastic," when she's hyperanalyzing words on a phone screen, when she's approaching topics over text which most grown adults would think proper to do so in person, I think that's a game that a lot of people, particularly those who don't have a strong affinity for their phone, are going to simply lose patience with. Again, not cool to go on radio silence for two days or whatever, but I think it gets to a point it's plenty fair someone elects to stop playing along and just put their phone down.

[reinventmyself]

Lex, what exactly are you waiting for? Do you believe after some given time he will communicate more with you?

 

Seeing he's more less told you how he behaves in the context of dating or a relationship, do you think in time this will change?

 

Let me remind you, that people are on the best behavior in the early stages of dating. This is when the interest is at an all time high. It typically doesn't build after 2 months time and not to a level I think you are holding out for. If he doesn't have it now, it's doubtful he'll have it any point. AND it's been said repeatedly, your only bet and chance to find out is dial yourself way back and see if he meets you half way.

 

Yes, it's possible you can teach him to give you what you need, but how is that going to feel? Personally, I want people to reach to me because they have the desire to, not because they feel obligated to.

 

I think the lesson here is accept and respect exactly what it standing in front of you.

You get to decide if this meets your needs or not.

 

Whenever you find yourself in a position waiting for someone to fundamentally change who they are, you are standing in the wrong spot.

[frustrated1]

Have to disagree respectfully with some of the advice here. I don’t think you playing games or getting him to chase you will do any good. You clearly have an insecure attachment to him, and he can sense it. You say you act cool and don’t show him your anxiety but he most definitely can feel it. Perhaps he may put in more effort once you pull away, but once he does you will be pulled back in and the dynamic of push and pull will continue. Sorry to sound harsh but you are simply not secure enough to be with this man. You need reassurance (most of us do) and he will not be the man to give it to you. Pretending to be someone you are not for a while will not change this dynamic. I’m sorry but I just don’t see this relationship working out in the long run. Instead of focusing on whether he is in to you, I think it’s time you realize you are just too different. Your expectations from a relationship are too different, and expecting someone to change to fit what you want is just senseless. Either accept what he is willing to offer you, or move on.

[Batya33]

Have to disagree respectfully with some of the advice here. I don’t think you playing games or getting him to chase you will do any good. You clearly have an insecure attachment to him, and he can sense it. You say you act cool and don’t show him your anxiety but he most definitely can feel it. Perhaps he may put in more effort once you pull away, but once he does you will be pulled back in and the dynamic of push and pull will continue. Sorry to sound harsh but you are simply not secure enough to be with this man. You need reassurance (most of us do) and he will not be the man to give it to you. Pretending to be someone you are not for a while will not change this dynamic. I’m sorry but I just don’t see this relationship working out in the long run. Instead of focusing on whether he is in to you, I think it’s time you realize you are just too different. Your expectations from a relationship are too different, and expecting someone to change to fit what you want is just senseless. Either accept what he is willing to offer you, or move on.

 

I think it's circular. I think she's been more into him from the get go and instead of reacting to her attachment by taking a step back she keeps seeking reassurance from him that they're on the same page, knowing deep down or maybe even on the surface that this is not the case. She might very well be secure enough to be with a man who is on the same page. It takes someone very strong and disciplined to hold back where the other person is not yet on the same page - not yet -meaning yes, people can come around and their interest can grow. But not with her approach - he can smell it and it's a turn off. I've been where he is and where she is.

 

I honestly think this is a lost cause - she would have had to been far more self-aware from the word go and made different choices to give him the space to get to know her at his pace and on his timetable and perhaps then his interest would have grown. I've been where he is and I've given second and third chances for the guy to back off and stop subjecting me to his insecurities, to give me time to "catch up" to him and sometimes the guy backs off short term but then he's back to his insecure actions. And it's kind of selfish or at least self-absorbed especially after I express a need for space. Truth is once I had to express that need it likely was over but I can see where one expression of "hey too much too soon" followed by a confident backing off, a confident approach- can work. But he keeps backing off and she keeps chasing.

Once she called him again after he gave her the brush off after his holiday MIA deal I think he was done. He's not done as far as being willing to see her when he has nothing better to do/last minute -he likes their time together -but he's done considering that she might be the one(if that was ever under consideration). I'm sorry OP -I'd just move on. It's just going to hurt more the more you chase and get attached.

[reinventmyself]

Have to disagree respectfully with some of the advice here. I don’t think you playing games or getting him to chase you will do any good. You clearly have an insecure attachment to him, and he can sense it. You say you act cool and don’t show him your anxiety but he most definitely can feel it. Perhaps he may put in more effort once you pull away, but once he does you will be pulled back in and the dynamic of push and pull will continue. Sorry to sound harsh but you are simply not secure enough to be with this man. You need reassurance (most of us do) and he will not be the man to give it to you. Pretending to be someone you are not for a while will not change this dynamic. I’m sorry but I just don’t see this relationship working out in the long run. Instead of focusing on whether he is in to you, I think it’s time you realize you are just too different. Your expectations from a relationship are too different, and expecting someone to change to fit what you want is just senseless. Either accept what he is willing to offer you, or move on.

 

Good post.

 

Good book about the very same thing: Attached, by Rachel Heller, Amir Levine

It addresses this very thing and gives detailed descriptions of different attachment styles.

 

In the meantime google `Attachment Styles'

[katrina1980]

I agree with both frustrated and Batya, both make excellent points.

 

Lex, please cancel date this weekend and be done with this, it's so time.

 

I'm sorry things didn't work out, but there are other men, men you will be much more compatible with.

 

I suppose the next question is -- would you actually like/become attracted to any of those men?

 

Often times, those with opposite attachment styles attract each other. It's rarely a functional RL, one person always wants more, and proceeds to jump through nearly impossible hoops attempting to get it.

 

It never works Lex, it will only serve to push away the one who wants less (which appears to be what's happening now), which then leads to more anxiety and insecurity, rinse repeat..

 

Sad truth.

[boltnrun]

I had a man I'd been dating tell me that if I hadn't made myself so available and hadn't made things almost too easy for him he might have been more interested in me. But I just didn't stop myself. I feared if I didn't go to him I would never see him. He told me I never even gave him the chance. And that my over eagerness turned him off. It never recovered, even though he was the one to initially pursue me. He lost interest because I behaved like an over eager puppy, bouncing around hoping he would play with me.

 

Definite attraction killer.

 

You resolve to not contact him or ask him about plans, then you do it anyway. Your fear based actions may end up turning him off for good...causing the very thing you fear most. Despite us trying to warn you, you plunge on. Why is that?

[katrina1980]

@ bolt -- I give him credit for being so forthright and honest, not many men would, they just dump or ghost -- valuable lesson learned no doubt.

 

I've said this before but my late dad told me something ages ago -- that being "men appreciate and value those things (including women) they have to work for a bit."

 

Just like you said, when things come too easy, they become complacent and lazy -- kiss of death and yeah total attraction killer.

 

Same for women too, in different ways, when things come to easy for me, I tend to lose my attraction as well.

 

There should always be a balance; Lex right now your relationship is so imbalanced, like Bolt said, once this imbalance has been established, very difficult to recover from.

 

Anyway, maybe this will be a valuable lesson learned for you too, to take with you into your next RL.

 

Wish you the best though in whatever path you choose to follow.

[reinventmyself]

I had a man I'd been dating tell me that if I hadn't made myself so available and hadn't made things almost too easy for him he might have been more interested in me. But I just didn't stop myself. I feared if I didn't go to him I would never see him. He told me I never even gave him the chance. And that my over eagerness turned him off. It never recovered, even though he was the one to initially pursue me. He lost interest because I behaved like an over eager puppy, bouncing around hoping he would play with me.

 

Definite attraction killer.

I did the same thing, post divorce

I was always anxious, calling him, taking the pulse of the relationship and asking too many questions about where it was going and what his intentions were. I pretty much scared him off.

[Morello]

My suggestion may be off but I'd stay a bit longer in this while trying to tone the anxiety a bit down. Like almost using it as an exercise or even a 'test' for myself.

 

Take small steps. First, wait for him to contact you. If he does, play a bit hard to get. Say you've already arranged a weekend with family, I don't know. Be proactive and 'book' things before he invites you. Just show him that his last minute invites won't cut anymore but be clear that you're still interested in keeping seeing him. Try to sound 'normal' and not passive aggressive as it's a payback for how he's treating you. Messages are great for not showing that.

 

Ok if it's not in your nature to play hard to get, but we all have to do it a little in life so people (family, friends and dates) value us more. If we're too available, people start liking us less. There is always an optimal amount of time/effort we should give to people. Once we're beyond that point, it actually starts doing us a disservice.

 

See what happens. Maybe he'll be a bit more interested and less smothered. Give him some breathing time so he can miss you. No need to make any big decisions now. Decide based on what appears in front of you as things progress. Use it as an exercise to make less impulsive and emotional decisions. Identify when it's your anxiety speaking and try to silence it. Use the silent days between the two of you to work on things you like and want to do. Visit friends, go out, new hobbies. These things will be more interesting now while you're still seeing him then they'll be soon after a potential break up, trust me.

 

If you do so and he keeps doing whatever he has been doing since day 0, acting uninterested and not initiating, then you have your answer and you'll leave this in a much more confident outlook, knowing he's really not the guy for you. Right now, you may not know because you've been smothering him, including debating important relationship issues over messages when you know he's not a message guy. He's probably already sensed your passive aggressive attitude and may be unwilling to step up because of that. You're clearly wanting it too much and that's scary for the other person. The fault for his lack of response to your message can be only partially attributed to him. I'm not sure how I'd have answered that either. If anything, I'd be a bit pissed to be confronted like that by message so early on, no matter how gentle you were. Not because of the message itself, but because of your 'smothering' history of not giving him much breathing time.

 

Take my advice with a grain of salt. I just said that because I've been guilty of that anxiety and smothering before. In my last relationship, I wish I had this realisation and reduced contact and availability before it all went crashing down. Not necessarily for believing in the future of the relationship (because it is basically impossible to predict), but to show her and myself that I can control my emotions more than I was showing.

 

I am now dating someone in the very early stages (few weeks). Someone who is very present on dates and is always available to meet me when i initiate. But she hasn't been doing much (if any) of the initiation. It may end up being a short lived relationship, but dealing with the days in between without contact is actually helping me learn how to deal with the anxiety and is making me a more confident man overall.

 

I am now giving her the chance to initiate contact with me at her own pace. It actually feels great to know I'm doing my part and the ball is on her court. If I never hear from her again, well, I have my answer. Like catfeeder says, by doing that I'm giving her the chance to give me valuable information about her level of interest. If I always initiate, then I'll never get that info.

 

Patience pays big time in relationships. Sometimes just putting it to rest and focusing on other things for a few days might 'fix' it in itself.

[Honeycomb8]

Why does she have to twist herself into a pretzel to get this guy's attention? Pretty sure there lots of men out there who will make more effort and be more communicative.

 

I'll be honest, her behaviour would turn me off big time. A woman should never have to chase a man, nor initiate serious talks. She's always the one moving towards him, it's pretty sad. The fact she called him after he went silent ...

 

And now he's not exactly changing his behaviour is he? He hasn't even texted her!! OP don't you think you deserve someone that actually was properly interested in you? Because his actions def show he isn't. Must be a big ego boost to not have to lift a finger and have this attention from her and sexual benefits.

 

How have you developed emotional bonding if he doesn't even maintain it pass the nights where you guys have dinner and have sex? I just DONT get it.

[Honeycomb8]

Oops double post.

[Honeycomb8]

Also you need to find hobbies and hang out with friends more. It really seems to me all you do is wait around like a lost puppy for him to acknowledge your existence. I broke up with my last ex partially because he was always available, present and easy.

 

That gets old fast. I want someone who has their own life and is out there busy living it. Clearly he knows you're always literally waiting around for him??? Work on that, do you even have a social life at all?

[bluecastle]

Why does she have to twist herself into a pretzel to get this guy's attention? Pretty sure there lots of men out there who will make more effort and be more communicative.

 

I hope this doesn't sound harsh, but, all in all, my read is that she entered into this a bit of a twisted pretzel, wants him/a relationship to do the untwisting, and the underlying frustration is that, lo and behold, all this time later and the pretzel is only knottier, more twisted.

 

That's kind of the subtext, the hook, no? Another day, another text, another week, and, presto, the pretzel becomes a straight line.

 

And I agree about the hobbies, which is connected to Morello and the few days rest. If I'm not getting what I need from someone, I go to what I know, well, gets me off.

[purplepaisley]

I said a couple times in past posts, she needs to determine what works for HER. She understands the limitations that already exist (time, distance, kids), but new obstacles are in the situation now. They've been going out long enough that the "honeymoon" phase ends and reality kicks in...you just can't keep up with those first gestures and time spent long-term. They both have kids, jobs, and responsibilities. He started off texting a lot and dropped off...now he's dropping off the dates..?? I'm not sure that the guy has cancelled out on dates, but the OP keeps having to fish for these dates, and it seems like the guy complies with when nothing else is going on, and that's a problem.

 

I think it's time to stop texting and see if he steps up to the plate.

 

If he really has time and space for her, he'll call.

 

If he has other things to do, and the OP is becoming the equivalent of another responsibility, this "responsibility" is the last on his "to do" list, unless maybe, there's a desire to "do the do". That's not to say that this guy doesn't enjoy the OP as a human being and friend, but she's not exactly high on the priority list.

 

I would be willing to bet money that if she stops texting, she won't hear from him. Maybe she will hear from him weeks, or even months, from now, but my bet is that this guy completely drops off the planet in the immediate future....and that's the answer.

 

(on the up side, I lose every bet I participate in)

 

And it's terribly difficult to not reach out and not shoot off a text and not touch base, part of it being because you care about him and want to connect, and part of it is fishing for dates.

 

I know I don't want to play games. I don't think that I should have to stick to a "double text" rule, and I don't think that me, as a female, should not show interest. I will text or call. Guys have all the same anxieties as us women, "Does she like me?", so I hardly see the point in playing coy, but I do think at some point you need to recognize the forest for the trees and STOP. Let him come to you. Don't passively-aggressively beg for a date. If you're the only one initiating texts or calls, STOP.

 

It's really, really hard, but stop. You HAVE to. You have to know if he's interested enough that he will forge some time for you. I see you coming across as one of his responsibilities, not an asset..booty call? I know this term is offensive to you, but let's look at the big picture...he's interested the most when bedroom time is on the roster; not so much for a chat or a quick coffee when he's in the office or area.

 

You shouldn't be seen as such, but maybe that's his place in life and he's not ready for a relationship...or he's a jerk...no crystal ball for this.

 

I agree with the above post that you shouldn't be trying to tackle these major issues over text and then being all fun and breezy in person. Deal with what you need to deal with in person. Get it over with. Rip off the Band-Aid. Maybe it ends things, maybe it doesn't, but don't make basic texting and communication an anxiety-inducing situation on the crap-fest that might come later...or not. When you start dreading texts, emails, or time together because there's always some judgment or some issue, you will start having anxiety over that text and that plan to date...Pavlov's Dog...and you will actively avoid it.

 

Make a decision on what you want and if it works for you. He's introverted and "a guy," and this is a peek at your future...will it work for you? Is there potential for change as you know each other more, in time? How long do you wait? Who's going to move 50 miles away with kids in tow and a job and commute they have to work around?

[Lex00]

Also you need to find hobbies and hang out with friends more. It really seems to me all you do is wait around like a lost puppy for him to acknowledge your existence. I broke up with my last ex partially because he was always available, present and easy.

 

That gets old fast. I want someone who has their own life and is out there busy living it. Clearly he knows you're always literally waiting around for him??? Work on that, do you even have a social life at all?

 

I see my girlfriends on an occasional weeknight and every other Friday when I don’t have my kids. I see him Saturday-Sunday.

[Honeycomb8]

Is anything getting through, or are you going to continue this situation?

[katrina1980]

I see my girlfriends on an occasional weeknight and every other Friday when I don’t have my kids. I see him Saturday-Sunday.

 

That's good Lex, but confused about something.

 

Will you definitely be seeing him this weekend? Because based on this post (below), when you talked it was sort of up in the air, he was extremely evasive and non-committal.

 

Did you have another convo during which something more definitive was set, or did he leave it as "I will try to get off work early"?

 

If not, I would make other plans, seriously. Waiting around for him to decide whether he wants to see you or not (which IS what's happening) is a REALLY bad message to send Lex.

 

Just like Honeycomb said.

 

Anyway, if he called and set something more definitive, then forget everything I said; but I didn't read where you had a second convo which is why I asked.

 

 

 

Later on, the subject of next weekend came up. He didn’t ask to do anything but he asked where I’d be watching an event. I told him at home, and he said “ok, that’s where I’ll be watching it too.” Then said he would try to get off work early and come over to take me to dinner... it wasn’t enthusiastic by any means, at first, because he seemed hesitant to even bring up hanging out next weekend. But he’s always sort of been a mellow talker. His personality is just so reserved, almost monotone, robotic... maybe that’s just him and how he is.

 

 

Edit: Stop making excuses for his non-committal and evasive behavior. When a man is into a woman, he'll bend over backwards to see her, not tell her what he just told you, good gawd. Unless there was a second convo, as of now you don't even know whether or not you'll be seeing him!

[figureitout23]

I hope this doesn't sound harsh, but, all in all, my read is that she entered into this a bit of a twisted pretzel, wants him/a relationship to do the untwisting, and the underlying frustration is that, lo and behold, all this time later and the pretzel is only knottier, more twisted.

 

That's kind of the subtext, the hook, no? Another day, another text, another week, and, presto, the pretzel becomes a straight line.

 

And I agree about the hobbies, which is connected to Morello and the few days rest. If I'm not getting what I need from someone, I go to what I know, well, gets me off.

 

Translation please...

[Lex00]

That's good Lex, but confused about something.

 

Will you definitely be seeing him this weekend? Because based on this post (below), when you talked it was sort of up in the air, he was extremely evasive and non-committal.

 

Did you have another convo during which something more definitive was set, or did he leave it as "I will try to get off work early"?

 

If not, I would make other plans, seriously. Waiting around for him to decide whether he wants to see you or not (which IS what's happening) is a REALLY bad message to send Lex.

 

Just like Honeycomb said.

 

Anyway, if he called and set something more definitive, then forget everything I said; but I didn't read where you had a second convo which is why I asked.

 

Well it was definitive when we spoke- that we will be seeing each other Saturday. Him trying to get off work early was just him trying to get to me earlier because we see each other late afternoon. I’m guessing he will be trying to leave earlier so he can come by earlier. You are correct that nothing has been mentioned about this weekend since that conversation.

 

I did, however, receive a text from him this morning, which was surprising, wishing me a good morning and that he hopes I have a wonderful day. I responded with the same but did not ask about this weekend. And I won’t.

He didn’t mention it either. But I didn’t expect it because he has never cancelled, always makes it so I’m actually used to not hearing from him about it until the day of, saying he just got off work and has to do xyz then he will be on his way.

 

Katrina, I really wish I could just say F him and cancel right now, but I will see if he comes through. If he does, great. We will go about our date. Our plan is to go out to dinner, then our favorite dessert place, then home to watch an event on TV. After this, I do in fact plan to back off and just see how things go. If it doesn’t happen, I have already been asked by some of my girlfriends to do a girls night in with pizza. Sounds good too :)

[Honeycomb8]

I think he means she entered into this not a very "whole" person with some blaring issues, and she hoped he'd be the solution to her problems. What ended up happening is he ended up aggravating her pre-existing issues and insecurities.

 

Everytime he comes calling she is relieved, like taking a drug, a balm to sooth the anxiety. But it's only temporary and isn't the solution because he is not the ultimate problem... The problem already exists inside herself. Hence the desperate behaviour.

[figureitout23]

I think he means she entered into this not a very "whole" person with some blaring issues, and she hoped he'd be the solution to her problems. What ended up happening is he ended up aggravating her pre-existing issues and insecurities.

 

Everytime he comes calling she is relieved, like taking a drug, a balm to sooth the anxiety. But it's only temporary and isn't the solution because he is not the ultimate problem... The problem already exists inside herself. Hence the desperate behaviour.

 

ahhhhhhh ok

[bluecastle]

I think he means she entered into this not a very "whole" person with some blaring issues, and she hoped he'd be the solution to her problems. What ended up happening is he ended up aggravating her pre-existing issues and insecurities.

 

Everytime he comes calling she is relieved, like taking a drug, a balm to sooth the anxiety. But it's only temporary and isn't the solution because he is not the ultimate problem... The problem already exists inside herself. Hence the desperate behaviour.

 

I feel seen.

[Wiseman2]

If this works for both of you on your child free weekends, why worry?

we will be seeing each other Saturday.. I’m actually used to not hearing from him about it until the day of, saying he just got off work and has to do xyz then he will be on his way. Our plan is to go out to dinner, then our favorite dessert place, then home to watch an event on TV.

[boltnrun]

If this works for both of you on your child free weekends, why worry?

 

She wants texting between dates. He does not and seems like he will not text between dates.