caro33

Sorry I have to go guys but I enjoyed talking with you - will come back later. Have a wonderful weekend .

We lived together too, we'd lived together as a couple for six years at least. He'd basically stayed with me through various housemates before that too. Yeah he lived with his parents after he left me, but I don't know anything about his life really. I googled him a while ago and saw he'd moved to lecture at a University in another state. His mountain biking seemed to go okay too - he clocked some good times in the internet stuff I saw . He's grown a dodgy goatee and looked stoned in the faculty picture. When did it happen to you kate?

You'll definitely find happiness again, but it will take time to feel better about things. You just need to be kind to yourself and give yourself whatever you need to feel good about life, about you, about the world. Grieving is so hard, I know. I'm so sorry you feel bad. It's awful isn't it to think you have a real connection with someone and then it looks like it never was as you thought. Terribly hurtful, and you doubt yourself. But you will come back from feeling like this, you'll be better than ever if you give yourself the chance, I swear it .

It was excruciating. We started when I was 19 and relatively inexperienced. We got engaged in the last couple of years. Then one day, he announced to me that he didn't want to be in a relationship anymore, it wasn't my fault, and he wanted to concentrate on his mountain biking . I asked him to leave to think about it, and he went the next day and never came back. Or rather, he came back 3 times to pick up his stuff but never explained any of it to me or talked to me at all. I was destroyed - he was family to me - and I always assumed I would find out "the truth" one day and that he would come back. Never did, and in hindsight am incredibly grateful for it. But you get through, you get better. I have now married a man 1000 times better than that ex (or any subsequent ex) ever was.

Yuck. Not sure "healed" is appropriate here hey. She sounds mighty confused.

[leading from my previous post...] Actually it was only 5 months before I met him, but it took another couple of months before we started dating. There wasn't immediate chemistry first off, but we had mutual friends and got thrown together a couple of times. The interest flared pretty quickly the second time we met and it went from there .

Hmm, 7 months? But I dated a couple of guys in between. No real connection with them though, so they never overlaid the memories.... That particular ex relationship was a messy thing where we were kind of casual, so although it formally ended in October 04, it had been problematic and really hurtful for months before that. But I was so into him - he was a complete jerk but I was into him. He was my big comparison point and the person I had identified with the most since my 10 year relationship ended 3 years before... (It took me a year after my 10 year relationship ended -I was in shock for months and totally went to ground for a year before I met anyone I fancied.)

Hey we're reading your thread Tally, but you've got timezone issues too remember. I find there's much less response around now... Have you felt like this for long? Sounds like everyone at work likes you - what's going on? Why aren't people coming into your life these days?

Congratulations Iceman! Great to hear from the guys on this. Good story too Spader .

Yes I think one can be full aware the destructive nature of jealousy and still give in to it - I do. It depends on a range of things (ah, I seem to always say that!), like: what are you jealous of? What triggers your jealousy? What is at the root of your jealousy? People say it's about self-esteem, so knowing your own esteem issues is a starting point. To be honest, for me my jealousy is something I actually feed inadvertedly by choosing to wallow sometimes in insecurity and self-hatred. The person I am jealous about figures in my daydreams when I am bored and I want to compare myself to something...It's brought on by fear and boredom. It becomes habit to think that way about yourself sometimes. I doubt you're a lost cause!

I thought that too until I ate a marshmallow chocolate bar today, oops and mmmm

Or she wasn't over you Orlander, but she threw herself into the next one to forget the past. I think that sometimes we assume people are over us because they don't seem to want the same thing as us, but it's often more complex than that. Anyway, I think many people hold on to the memory of the past relationship while they are alone and in between relationships - you can heal and feel better over the time, but the most recent person you were with was still the ex. In that situation I agree with kate absolutely - many people that I know (including me) keep thinking about the ex until they replace that "last person I was with" vibe with another person. I wasn't technically "over" the previous ex when I got together with my husband, and he wasn't "over" his ex either. But we were both mostly over the exes, and pretty much healed as people. I think people rarely compartmentalise experiences neatly; "healing" depends so heavily on a range of variables, such as time, esteem, what actually happened, one's belief about others out there, age & experience, emotion invested...etc

I'm so sorry. Only you know whether the heart or the head rule here, but I tend to think the head should prevail. If you are sure you are thinking about this objectively and see that he's not the man he needs to be, then you have made your decision. If this cannot ever be resolved to your satisfaction, you have made your decision. What you are now living with is the grief of that realisation and possibly the grief of what is to happen. It's going to be hard, you bonded with him and loved him - or who you hoped he was. But this is also not a decision that can be taken in isolation of your children. How will you/they manage without him, what's the next step for you in a purely administrative sense? This might take some heavy negotiation - are you up for it?

I dunno, what do we all mean by "forgive"? Feel no pain, no anger? Think everything that happened was okay? In that case I have never truly forgiven. Or it has come and it has gone. My forgiveness is flexible! I just don't even know if the concept is relevant because it implies we can choose to feel 100% better about something that had a deep effect. Forgiveness seems to be an action we can choose to take to make it all better. I wonder though if in believing that it's that easy we are setting ourselves up for disappointment in ourselves. I rather think that people hurt us, and over time we eventually stop living like it was the biggest thing to happen to us, it drops off our immediate emotional radar, the hurt and anger dissipates. I see it more as a process, where we become more ambivalent. Perhaps we forgive, but more as a by-product of the other choices we make to get on with our lives, to stop blaming...

Another poster had this concern a while ago, and she also suggested she needed to forgive herself maybe. I'm not so sure. Have a read if it helps: Like I said then, I don't think this is about forgiveness of anyone, it's probably still about grief. You're going through the stages of grief still, you're still in pain. Time will keep making this better, I don't think you can make it go faster though, there is no magic "forgiveness" pill you can take and know it's all over, you're ambivalent now. Hang in there, you'll be okay. It takes a while that's all.

Before I fell pregnant I drank up to TWO LITRES of Diet Coke a day. The Vanilla Diet Coke is delicious. Haven't had any for weeks now though - except the occasional sip of hubby's. Funny how I didn't value the damage from the nasties when it was just me, but now I'm growing a person I'm aware that I might be inflicting godknowswhat on it. Diet Coke doesn't sound so great now. Two to three a week surely isn't so bad, for your average person.

Why does your head say no? Is it just because you are hurt and angry or it is that plus you believe he won't ever be the man you need him to be?

Would you see a counsellor together? Would that be worthwhile?

If you got to have the ideal situation (assuming the same past), what would it be? Is there anything he can do or say that might make you feel better about trusting him? If it's over, what does that mean for you and your children? How has he explained himself?

It just gives me the heebie-jeebies really. I don't like it, but... My husband has been to several in his life (before me met me) but it's generally been a male social thing, hanging out with other guys at work after they've had a big night out. Husband is the least sleazy man I know, and he respects women enormously. One day he'll go again I expect, so I guess I just suck it up when it happens - I know how much he adores me and I think the damage of me thinking I can get heavy and say "you can't do that b/c I don't trust you" is far greater than the damage that comes from very occasionally going to a strip club. He knows I am anti-lap dance, and he says he'd respect that. I still hate the concept. But it's one of those things I am prepared to make a slight compromise on because we share fundamental values, he has integrity, and I can trust him. He also is like a teenage girl sometimes and his take on things just makes me laugh rather than get paranoid.

Your timeframes are a bit confusing, because you say he did stuff before you were married, then talk about having 5 children. I guess those reading your post might assume you married him 5 children ago, in which case the issue with his behaviour pre-marriage has been around a while. But this assumption might be wrong. Anyway, what i think is disturbing more than anything is: You are saying that: (a) he was home looking a porn just after you gave birth to his child; (b) not only that, but he used that porn to decide his feelings for you? I find that extraordinary. What tools did porn give him to assess his relationship with you? How did he explain this? What was he going to do if the porn told him he didn't love you? I think that your concerns are certainly a big deal and I'm sorry you're going through this. I don't think this is about porn but about betrayal and trust, and I can imagine it hurts to be told these things. Actually, I've been there. I know it hurts like hell. Being a mother to his children must make it even more confusing.

There's been a few of us in this type of situation. I was in one too, I am familiar with the obsession taking hold and the constant thoughts of her. But right now you are making this what it is, and you need to get some perspective. Some things are in your control here, specifically your own behaviour and the boundaries you establish. First, work out what you want here. Do you want him as a boyfriend? Do you have views about what contact is appropriate between exes? Different people have different views: you need to work out what your own standards are, and find a quiet way to communicate them calmly to him. It's then up to him to decide what he wants to do. It's okay to say that you've made a mistake previously and you've changed your mind. Maybe it's not okay with you that she calls at all, maybe you only can handle once every few weeks. Be honest and frank about your needs, and be as fair on him as possible. This is about you at the moment, not about him. Second, get a grip of yourself. I've been there, I know that sometimes you just react and you do know at the time that on some level you are being unfair. The minute that background "I know I'm being unfair but I don't care I'm just so hurt" feeling kicks in, stop it. Walk away. You need to get control here. You need to manage your own reactions. Don't scare this guy off. Third, realise you'll have bad days no matter how well you manage this. You'll have times of anger or insecurity. But you just need to acknowledge them and deal with them. Let the moment pass, because it will. Distract yourself. These are all just suggestions. I won't pretend I have the answer, but I want you to know that I have largely managed it. I still check for her on the internet sometimes though, but I use ENA as a distraction from that. It might not help, but you need to see that he has a history, as do you. His history is key to who he is now, and what brought you guys together. Don't turn this into a dealbreaker if you don't have to. You can get some control here, and you can make this less of an issue if you want to. Edit: Here's someone else experiencing something like you are at the moment:

Well he's definitely more interested than not! Play it cool and see how things go. He could just really be into volleyball ; it depends what he's like as a person. But if you have a gut feel about how he's looking at you etc then I think he's interested. I think the chances are good from what you've said anyway.

You absolutely need to tell them what you want. If you want them to say they love you, then say it first. However, one month is too soon to say that in many people's books. I would also be nervous about saying it during sex - do you really want the first time he says that (has he said it before) to be during sex? Sex and love are quite different things to many people. And we're all wired differently; I never say "I love you" when we're in bed and it's got nothing to do with my feelings for him. I just don't think like that. So don't assume everyone is like you - the only way to know what he is comfortable doing is to lead the way and show him what you want. He's probably doing what he thinks will turn you on. I'm not saying to hit him with everything you want at once, but don't be afraid of communicating about sex. Sometimes you can leave things too long, and then when you finally mention it all the other person thinks is "oh no, they hated sex with me until now and I never knew". Lead him in small steps.

I'm okay. Not sure what "loving myself" is supposed to mean to be honest. Hate the way I look right now, hate aspects of myself. But other aspects are pretty bloody good. It always depends, doesn't it.