caro33

I certainly understand what you are saying, but I also think that what you have here might be the perennial "why don't you love me" situation. The fact is, that for whatever reason, he doesn't want a relationship with you. Yes, that really hurts, but it's also kind of all you need to know. Whether he's with someone else or not doesn't really provide insight into his motivations and feelings for you. What provides insight into his feelings for you is that he does not want to pursue a relationship with you. Sorry to keep hammering on this point but, well, it's true. The problem with trying to extract reasons for people not loving you is that there is rarely a reason that is "good enough". I know this from my own experience. HIM: "I'm confused and I'm not sure" or "I don't want a relationship right now" ME: "Oh, that's fine, I just want something casual" (quietly expecting that he'll change his mind, maybe he's scared of commitment, maybe he's poor at making decisions) --> In this situation I decided it wasn't a "good" reason and so compromised all my own needs in the hope he'll change his mind. What would be a "good enough" reason that would make you move on? Would it be "actually I was just using you and I really hated your perfume/cooking/house/body"? That would upset you and be terribly hurtful, but at least you'd move on. It still wouldn't explain how he led you on or why. What if he said "you're just too perfect, it scared me". So then he appreciated you, that's nice. But would you want to move on then? Probably not. Maybe you'd want to talk him around why he should not be scared and why you guys are perfect together, blah blah. And if he says he's "confused" as above? Would you do what I have done in the past and just hang in there and try super hard to be special enough for them to love you? So my point is that if you have staked having some closure on something he says, you might be concentrating on the wrong thing. At the very least, you need to have a picture in your head about what he would say to make you move on. It probably should be more about how he behaves with you though, than about whether he takes up with someone else. You deserve to have someone who knows what they want, and what they want is you. Anything less is you compromising yourself and not treating yourself with the respect you deserve. I know how it's easy to compromise, but ask yourself why you need to.

Wow, this sounds like it could go either way. However, my gut feel from what you have told us is that you might not have anything to worry about. The fact that you are going back nine and four years for examples might indicate that those were not instances you need to be concerned about - perhaps if something was genuinely wrong then your radar would have gone off before now. The fact that he let you listen to that message four years ago might also indicate he did not participate in anything shady. It sounds like you did not have doubts until last year and the flirting with the woman at the party, is that correct? That's positive. But it sounds like you need to get to the heart of that night and your concerns. What was his story about that night, and has that woman re-entered his or your life to any degree that you know about? How has your marriage been otherwise? Do you think he's happy? Perhaps bored? What sort of character does your husband have? Now there's no way to predict cheating, but I expect it's more likely to occur where there is: (a) Opportunity, combined with: (b) Loneliness and/or © Boredom and/or (d) Weak moral fibre. If you believe he has integrity and is happy, then maybe it's just an occasionally inappropriate flirty style you need to discuss with him. That's different to cheating. But if you think there's something more, then there are also ways and means to work out how to proceed. In any event, I would certainly advise you don't come accross as accusing him of anything. If he is cheating that will only make him more careful. More importantly, if he is not cheating it will only drive a wedge between you.

Hey CollegeKid, please let us know how you go if you get the chance. And good luck.

Hmm. This sounds hard, but it also sounds like a limbo that you can possibly work harder to get free of. I don't mean to sound harsh, I do sympathise. But I think that short of one of you leaving the shared work/social world completely, you can only change this by changing your own perspective. Why do you really need him to explain himself? Are you hoping he'll come back to you? Do you really think there is a chance of that?

Great post redboots! I had the same thing and I completely agree with your points. Welcome to ENA!

You will definitely get over him, but it's going to take that much longer if you keep being given "material" to mull over in your mind. The way I see it, breaking up is hard, and if you did not want it to end you have a lot of thinking and grieving to do before you can truly believe you are "over" the issue. And even then, I think it's understandable, and even "normal" to always feel just a little something, whether it's hurt, hope or resentment. Expecting 100% indifference is perhaps a bit optimistic, unless a lot of time has passed! The grieving and thinking process takes time, you have to work through your own concerns about being alone or rejected, and you go through the process of mourning the relationship you thought you had, or the person you hoped they were. I think this is hard enough at the best of times, but made much much worse if you keep being given new information to process. This is why staying out of contact is optimal. It is also worth just putting this to bed. Maybe you never find out what you think you need to find out. I didn't. But as time passes I think you realise that finding a reason that you think is "good enough" is beside the point. The simplest thing is what is so confronting - no, they do not want to be with you. Finding out why can sometimes help, but it's not a way of resolving your pain. Continuing to believe you need to find out why they don't love you can just make this neverending. There is no answer about how long it takes. For me, after 10 years it took me around a year to be okay, but I also had lots of periods of being fine within that year. But that ended suddenly, no explanations and no further interaction. Another one that wasn't even serious (in his eyes) that went on and off for 6 months, dragged out another 7 months of pain because I kept getting new "material". So I spent more time in pain about the lost relationship than I spent in it! In your case how long are we talking, and does he let you think there is a chance sometimes, or is it definitely over? How long has it definitely been over?

yes grrr to being stood up, and I was all ready to try and put a positive spin by saying "maybe he forgot" even though that's a bit lame, but his text response was dismissive and arrogant. seems he needs taking down a peg or two, or at least he needs to understand the impact of his behaviour. Sorry EG. I wish you a happy valentine's day This is my platonic internet valentine to you!

That's really sad, and I feel for you. Kids are horrible sometimes. I also got some major teasing when I was young, it's funny (awful) how these things stay with you. I am pale as pale, and would love to have your colouring! With your mix of heritage I bet you're gorgeous. Is there anything you can do about the scarring to feel better? I had thought there were laser treatments and the like that can make a difference. Is that an option?

The stuff I have read said that 50% don't get it (but maybe the stats here are rubbery) and for those who do, it's the full range of light occasional queasiness to full vomiting all day. So you might actually count as a morning sickness person just from the instances of light nausea you've been having. It can also come on later - I think for some it doesn't come on until the second/third month, but it can also go away by mid second trimester. There are also things that some women do to help them not have morning sickness, there are triggers to avoid, like cooking smelling things for others, not eating breakfast (even just dry crackers) etc. Maybe you've been doing these anyway (that is, avoiding triggers) which has meant less likelihood of sickness. Not having morning sickness is great!

Wow, you think that? No way! Sorry if that's how I have come accross. I think her parents sound awful and unforgiveable, and I think your fiancee is behaving in a selfish and manipulative manner. I also think I commented on them enough and don't have anything new to say. I don't think this is your fault at all, except for the degree to which you choose to stay there. And even then, I get why you do, so "fault" is not the right word. I recognise you didn't ask for this. Personally, I think that this sounds like a bad family to marry into. I think that your relationship with your fiancee has several major red flags, all of which I have mentioned before. I am actually gunning for you to find a way to be happy, and if that means you get out or postpone (which I think seems like a good idea) then all power to you!

I spoke to my husband about aspects of it, but left some of my middle of the night terrors to myself because I didn't want to upset him. It may be me rationalising my behaviour too much, but I do think that if managed well, this situation can be a positive thing. I think some people sail far too easily into relationships for the wrong reasons, and don't question themselves or their needs. If you think this stuff through and try to be fair to you and to him, you might find you end up much more comfortable and sure of your decision than many others might be.

Ah Scout, you and me mate. I am with you all the way. I went and bought some stretchy skirts with big waistlines yesterday though, so the discomfort thing is a bit better. It's hard to get out when you feel exhausted hey? I understand that we get our energy back and we're right to get exercising by the second trimester though. I've got my personal training session shifted to Saturday morning now, but if you like I'll post or PM you on Monday what I am advised. Key seems to be to get active every day without overheating or getting out of breath - maybe it's some slight strength exercises rather than cardio. Will see!

Rosie I got spooked too, and it worked out. Actually I am married and pregnant now and still getting spooked, but I guess it's actually easier because it's just too late to pack up my toys and run! I don't mean to sound flippant - I adore my husband and know it was the right decision in every possible way. But that doesn't mean that Scared Inner Caro doesn't come out sometimes still. It's stating the bleeding obvious and not terribly helpful I know, but I think that there's no 'cure'. You're just going to be ready to relax when you're ready to relax. I suggest you make sure you always make time for yourself, and don't focus on the relationship too much. Let it grow without any forcing, and if it's going too fast, do not be afraid to express your need for some alone time. As you see he's trustworthy over time you should relax in increments.

Hmm. Well maybe you just give her the rose. Forget about the card. Bump into her and give her the rose. Look deep into her eyes and say you would like to spend more time with her soon, then leave to do something. She then gets to appreciate the gesture, but you keep her wondering a little. Keep it light. If she gets funny about it then that's fine. You did a sweet, whimsical thing, you shouldn't feel bad about it. Nothing ventured and all that. You can walk away knowing you did a nice thing. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't worry about the card. Cards are a pain - we woman can interpret any word or absense of a word we wanted as meaning something. I also think a card AND rose might come accross as intense. Why even go there?

I tend to agree. If you can go with him, then you get the time and you also show some support. I don't think you are being selfish, but I do think it sounds like he's not being unreasonable either. You guys just need to negotiate how he sees his mother and maximises time with you. Is he really choosing her over you? I can imagine that he might even see this trip as a chore he wants to get out of the way so he can enjoy the rest of the time with you. I reckon I would do that too. Have a lovely weekend!

I might be a bit careful about the rose, as it's quite a statement, and might make her uncomfortable if she doesn't want to receive it. I'm a bit risk averse as a person though. If you give the card, what would it say?

So are you talking about social skills or popularity? Related but different. Actually you sound like you are having an understandably adverse reaction to smugness!

Well it's whatever turns you on. If you like the idea of photography the class would be about learning how to use the camera, there would maybe be group excursions, or you could do stuff with people you met in the class. Note I am not saying lessons, I am saying classes. The point of this is to get you into a group, where you get to pursue a common interest. If they do that with guitar, then fine. In the breaks between the teacher talking to you, you get to interact with others. Because socialising is not the primary purpose of being there, it takes the pressure off. You can socialise on your own terms. I did Spanish classes a few years ago through what we call the Council for Adult Education. Night classes, and weekends, you get a choice of what to attend. So every Saturday morning for a few months I rocked up to a class where we learned Spanish for travellers. I ignored people for the first few classes, but eventually got to talking to them. I met some nice people, despite my low expectations.

Really? My lord. How manipulative. I would be angry too. Where's the respect!

The "nice guy" thing actually really irks me. There is always a "nice guys finish last" thread somewhere around here, and what they seem to miss is that it's probably not the fact that they were "nice" that was the problem. "Nice" is so subjective! They may have been shy, or quiet, but that doesn't make them nice. "Nice" also seems to be code for "doormat" also. Nice, to me, is kind of ephemeral. If you don't use the more pejorative smug/doormat sense of it, to my mind it merely describes someone who is easy to be around. Not synonymous with "quiet' or "shy". So yes, I agree EG that the whole "nice guy" thing is a crock. The shy or quiet ones can have any personality at all. They could be extremely self-serving, and not at all what I would call nice. What did this ex let slip if you don't mind me asking? I am intrigued.

What about joining some group activity? Salsa classes Language classes Art classes Photography classes ...or whatever you want! You have a much better chance of making some acquaintances here, and there's no need for toxic smalltalk to start with because you are all there to do a specific activity. It's a great way to meet people on an introvert's own territory. And if it's awful, stop going to that particular thing. Try another one. Do you have an interest that you think you can translate into an activity like this?

Hey Lboogie23, sorry you feel like this! I feel like this to more or less of a degree depending on my hormones and my weight. I don't have an answer I'm afraid, and we've already talked about the porn issue I think. I'm no psychologist type, but I guess that perhaps a way of improving the situation would be a mixture of: (a) Understanding where this comes from in you: have you always felt like this? Did you get negative feedback when growing up? (b) Understanding your triggers for feeling bad: what in particular makes you feel worse? The porn is one issue, what are the others? © Relinquishing control over your surroundings a little and watching the consequences: how about wearing little to no makeup one day, or not worrying about your hair - does the world seem all that different? (d) Working on more positive self-talk, and distracting yourself from the negative: by telling yourself you are ugly you are actively reinforcing your own brain pathways. You can actually retrain your thinking if you repeat something enough times. Listen to people when they say you look nice - there is no benefit whatsoever in disregarding them. I think that if you actively try to be kinder to yourself, as well as exercise discipline over your own thinking, you can feel better. There will always be relapses, but you can feel better much of the time. I think the reason you keep feeling bad no matter what is that you are looking for answers through purchases "If I only had THAT hair, I would be happy with myself", "If I only had THAT pair of pants I would feel good". But the problem is not you being ugly, it's your own perception of you being ugly. You can fool it sometimes when you are in the changeroom, or walking out the salon, but you catch yourself unawares soon after, same old you. So why do you think you feel this way about yourself?

I have always been more of an introvert. Small talk is very taxing. For me, it's genes (mother has autistic personality traits) and conditioning. Only child, very little social interaction with children when I was growing up. Fine with adults but hopeless with peers. These days I can be super social if the circumstances are right, and sometimes it's fun, but generally it is exhausting. I think you can have introverted personality traits and be fine. No problems with relationships etc. Txblues it sounds like it's more than introversion you are talking about. I assume your lifechoices and broader personality has most to do with it, although it may stem from your comfort in being alone etc. Have you sought out relationships? Why no close friends? Why no girlfriends? To some degree this must be a choice, the issue is now whether you are still making that choice or not. Do you want this to change?

Thanks BTR, and congratulations by the way!