Venturer

Okay, here it is: After reading all your posts in this intriguing thread, I've come to a final decision... I want to marry Venturer. Oh Hannah you're making me blush. How about a hug?

Wow. Am I the only guy that's responding to this thread? I have to say this thread totally blew me away. It might be obvious to you, but I'm surprised that women can get very lonely too. I've always thought that generally, women can get any guy they want and they always have friends and lead better lives than men. You might scoff at this, but hear me out for a bit. When I was in high school, I didn't have any friends that I could talk to. When I would walk in those hallways, I would see everyone talking in groups... a tight knit groups of girls, a group of jocks laughing and bellowing in the hallways with a few groupies following them, girls hugging their best friends in front of their lockers as if they had not seen each other in years. There was even this chess-club type of group that always remained together. But me, I had no one. I kind of talked to people here and there, but never was in one of the "circles". I see the same thing in college, but I did get in a few circles then. Still, I see most women living their lives and having lots of fun with their friends and guys. Given all that, it never *registered* in my mind that a woman can be lonely. It just did not occur to me. I can certainly identify with the feelings of loneliness that each person on this thread wrote, but I don't have any answers. When I spend some time with my family, my parents and relatives, it does alleviate some of that lonliness. Having a dog helps, too. But having a significant other does it best. But after a break up, it really hits us hard. It's also pretty depressing to see when women write posts saying that all men want sex and they give up on having relationships with them. I understand when people say they don't want to work on having relationships anymore, especially after getting burned recently... but it's only a matter of time before they start wanting to have a relationship with someone. It's like we have this archetype ideal stamped in our heads, and we compare every potential partner to this ideal.. and if they measure up to the slightest, we go for a relationship or whatever kind of thing with them... we pursue them. It's pretty sad when a person completely gives up on relationships, and it's also pretty sad when someone loses faith in the opposite sex. Believe me, I know... I was a hair away from completely losing faith in women and not trusting them anymore ever again, but I have a female friend that I CAN trust. That tells me there ARE women out there that are trustworthy and are good people and anyone will be blessed to know them. I hope more and more women will have their faith in men restored. This is not addressed to anyone in particular, so don't think I'm singling anyone out here... I'm saying that I think the more a woman dwells on the belief that "all men want is sex", the less she is willing to trust men, and the less she trusts men, the less fulfilling her future relationships will be, hence leading to even more lonliness. Equally, for men, the more a man loses faith in women for whatever reason he'd cite, it's the same downward spiral. I was on this downward spiral, too, for some period of time. Then I caught myself and realized where this was going. Now I'm in the process of dragging myself out of this rabbit hole, and I want to extend myself to women - BUT... I am going to be more selective on who I extend myself to. Not in a mistrustful way, but I want to merely get to know women so I know what I'm getting into. Sure, sex is fun and I love it. I want to have sex, too... but that is not what it is ALL about. I want to have healthy and fulfilling relationships, and that is what it's about. I know what Scout means by an expanding gulf between the sexes. I have to wonder, how did it start? Has this happened before? Is this some kind of cycle? I don't know. Is it what it's like in America, people being selfish and only thinking for themselves and not for other people? Or is it simply miscommunication that has gone out of control? Could it have started with one person who got burned, and he/she tells all of their friends about how the opposite sex is oh-so-evil-yall-better-beware-of-them! And everyone believed it, and turned around and told everyone else?! I would like to see the gulf narrow and eventually close. Maybe someday in my lifetime. If not in my lifetime, then... this may be a leap of faith... I hope my kids will see it happen someday. Alright NOW I'll get off my soapbox...

If I were in this guys position, I would not take her back.

Hm... this post makes me wonder how many times I went for the wrong girls and passing up my chances with the girls who would've been awesome.

Yeah it can be confusing. If she can't make the mental committment as you can, then it's probably not going to work... and there doesn't seem to be a point in trying again. If I were you, I'd just keep doing the no-contact thing and find someone else that fits the bill better for you.

If you're afraid he's only with you for the sex, then there is a very simple solution: STOP having sex with him! If he hangs around, you know he likes *you*; if he ditches you or does nothing but beg for sex, you know he likes *sex*. Well well... I have to agree with OldGuy. My most recent girlfriend (now an ex) stopped having sex with me for no obvious reason. I asked her if something was wrong. She would not say anything was wrong, no matter how many times I asked or coaxed her to talk about it. Then *I* started to think that I may be doing something WRONG, and that I may be unknowingly messing up the relationship. I liked her, and I enjoyed her company, and wasn't in it just for the sex. We did stuff together, went to a wine festival, hung out with her friends, etc. But in the back of my mind, it was still bothering me. "What went wrong?" All this unnecessary confusion that stems from a little "test" like this. And I'm thinking that it eventually destroyed our relationship. It is NOT a good strategy, like I would be angry if it was some little game. Here's what I propose to both sexes: Girls: PLEASE Don't do this "test". Use your instincts, you have very good instincts and you are very perceptive of people. But PLEASE don't mess with your guys. Guys: PLEASE Be honest about your intentions. And keep in mind that if you like a girl and want her to be your gf, you guys are probably not going to have sex EVERY single time you get together. Do stuff besides sex, hang out with friends, go hiking, whatever. Don't tell her stuff like "I really like you, I want to be with you" if you just want sex and not a relationship.

That's why it's best to leave them alone when they're having fun. Yes, if that means breaking up with them for good, so be it. They'll have other friends and family to support them.

they're the ones that REALLY burn you. See, that is exactly the jaded outlook on life and dating that I am trying to AVOID and get rid of.

I agree it's just a phase. I'm not surprised to see a quiet and shy girl suddenly turn into a Britney Spears wanna-be dancing at top of a bar and making out with all the guys. She was probably just bored with herself and wanted to go wild and do it for the experience. "You only live once." I went through it myself, too. I come from a good home with loving parents and strong family values and morals. I didn't drink until I was 19 and remained a virgin till 20. Then at some point in college, I decided to let loose and have fun. Had a string of one night stands and a few short-term flings here and there. Made out with girls in clubs. But now I'm 25 and am too old for club snogging, which is actually pretty disgusting - considering all the drinks and cigs they had over the course of the night. Meaningless sex is ... well, meaningless. I want something more substantial. Like a loving girlfriend whom I can freely give myself to without the fear of getting burned. The experiences I went through has in fact solidified the values that my parents had instilled me. Though there was nothing they could do to keep me from going through that "phase", I could never ask for a better job of them raising me. Let them learn their lessons.

Why do you think girls are evil? Some girl caused you a little heartburn? This is a good place as any to spill the beans and talk about it But then, if you actually find a way to prove that women are evil, then the women on here might not be looking forward to help you out on this board. Hmm? Something to think about?

Did you really break up with her via e-mail? lol Right. because it was the only way we had been communicating. Doing it in person was not an option because we couldn't even arrange a time for that. Do you think things are completely over between you guys now? Yes.

Yeah. That was a month ago. Basically it went like this. We started dating in july. Then she stopped having sex with me in sometime in mid-August. We still went out with each other for an additional month, but it wasn't the same. I knew something was bothering her but she would not say, even if I asked her if somethings wrong and if she wanted to talk about it. Then she cancelled our dates a lot.. and it became a pattern: Let's say it's monday. I'd ask her out, and try to set the date for wednesday. She says "ok sure, we'll figure out the details later, I'll email/call you back." Then wednesday rolls around, and I hear nothing from her. Sometimes I would remind her, and then she would say "oh I can't make it tonight, I'm working late." In the back of my mind, even if she was working late, she can still meet up after work. And she could've told me without me having to "remind" her? But whatever. This repeated half a dozen times or so... one time I just asked if we could meet up just for an hour, and thats it. No luck there. She kept saying "I want to hang out with you" but when it comes to nailing down a time and date, she'd back out of it on all counts. Eventually I got fed up and didn't contact her for a week. I didn't hear from her during all that time either. Then I decided to send her an email saying that we shouldn't see each other... I did that because the uncertainity was eating me alive and I wanted to close the book and let it go. (one of my character weaknesses is a low threshold for uncertainity). She writes back, and says her friend died the previous week and that she didn't contact me cuz she "wanted to take it easy." THen I felt terrible... had I known what was going on at her end, I would've tried to be there for her. I know what its like to lose a friend like that. But she didn't tell me. I don't know why she didn't tell me. Everyone, online and in real life, I tell this story to agrees that she shoulda told me earlier. Since she told me this, I made one last ditch effort to work something out... but she said we don't need to get togther anymore. Sent her a couple more emails, but no response. And that was that. On the surface, it has nothing to do with sex. But I never got to find out what the REAL underlying problem was. In retrospect, there's a clue to what may have been bothering her, but i can't be sure. A week or two before I started grad school, she said "we can't see each other anymore... cuz you're starting grad school and you'll be busy, there'll be no time." I was like, "oh, we can still see each other a couple times a week..." She just nodded. On THAT very day, it was the first time we didn't have sex... and we never had sex again after that day.

Excuse me for asking a dumb question... but what is "N/C"? Thanks in advance for catcing me up on the ever-changing Internet terminology...

Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus I've heard of this book many times, but never thought that I should read it. Now I'm sold on it. As for reading it together with my girlfriend, I think it's too late for that. We broke up for other reasons, but it probably stemmed from not having sex. Been a month now, and we haven't talked at all since. So I will read that book for myself and future understanding. Thanks very much, you guys are the bomb!

that something was really wrong that I wasn't catching onto. yes yes.. that was exactly how I felt. And it was the communication barrier that kept us from getting it out in the open. I would have liked to approach it better than I did. Well, if there's a next time, I will definitely take a more compassionate approach than the confrontational one. Make a mistake once, learn from it. Make the same mistake twice, shame on me. so just check around her bathroom for traces of prescription bottles. hahaha! You got that from an episode of Seinfeld, did you? Yeah, I did the same thing at her place early on... opened the cabinet and took a look. Saw nothing that would set off an alarm in my head, though.

The girl I lost my virginity to was someone I had known for a few years, and we were friends. Didn't really date though. One day, we just decided to have sex and get rid of our virginity. She was a virgin also. It was ok, it lasted about half an hour. Since we both lived with our parents, we did it in my car in a secluded park at night. Didn't really change our friendship afterwards.

Woah. Thanks all for the replies... and thank you hubman for intervening before things got ugly, and you basically explained my thoughts better than I could. Let me make my post clear. *deep breath* ... OceanEyes, thank you for your input. I can definitely understand when the woman is not in the mood, too much in mind, doesn't feel like it, and not feeling clean enough. I understand that and respect that 100%. And it was NOT, and NEVER was, my intention to anger you or any other female reading this thread. I'm sorry it angered you. See, that is precisely the reason I was afraid to ask this question in the first place. Also, I am NOT expecting any woman I'm with to just lay down and open up her legs every time I want it. After a few times in my case it was fine. To answer your question - we did not have sex AT ALL in those 2-3 weeks since she turned it down on every occasion. I do understand that we're not going to have sex everytime we see each other, but I can tell you this with 100% confidence: something had changed, something had gone wrong. And it was my intention to find out what it IS. I cannot find what it is unless she tells me. And that is where geo_jane came in, she said I can take her hand and say something like "you seem a little upset for nothing to be wrong, can you tell me what's really bothering you... I want you to know that you can talk to me about anything, so feel free." That is indeed much less confrontational than what I have done. (thank you, geo_jane, your post was indeed helpful). This is the "communication gap" that I want to close in my relationships with women. Like all of us, I want fulfilling, loving, and healthy relationships... but we cannot have that unless we let each other know if something is wrong, and we do it in a way that is open-minded, non-judgemental, and non-confrontational.

This may sound like a dumb question, but I have to ask anyway. This question has been bugging me for a long time, but was afraid to ask it. Here's a scenario: A couple who has been dating for some period of time, a few weeks or a few months. Let's assume they had sex before. The guy likes and respects her. The girl likes him, too. Initially, it looks like a budding long-term relationship. Now, let's say, on one night, the guy starts kissing her and moving towards sex. But the girl stops him, and says "no, not tonight" or "I don't want to." She does not explain why. The guy says "ok", and lets it slide, thinking it might be that time of month and she's on the rag (thats the first thing that goes through my mind when a girl turns down sex). But this repeats several times, and the guy starts to wonder. Forgive me for sounding paranoid, but sometimes I seem to get the feeling that girls do this once in a while because they want to gain control of the relationship... or they want to see if there is more to the relationship than just sex. Like, its a "power play". Is it true that women do this? I would like to think that it is not. But if it is true, how can a guy tell when the girl is being genuine and honest (she's on the rag, she's too tired, too much on her mind, etc) ... or if she has an alterior motive? Besides, what should a guy do when the girl turns down sex - not once, but several times in a row? How should he bring up this subject without sounding like he's upset because he wants sex and he's not getting it? How should he approach this issue? This has happened to me before - twice. Once a year or so ago, and once just a couple months ago. She turned down sex 3 times in the space of 2 weeks. I finally said, "why don't you want to have sex with me? is there something wrong?" She gets upset and goes "no! nothing's wrong. just because you want it, doesn't mean you can get it. Is that why you're mad? Just because we didn't have sex, is that it?!" -- said in a defensive and forceful way. This somehow makes me think that it was a power play, but I may have been to confrontational about it. I'm not really sure how to approach the issue, and talk it out and everything would be fine. Thoughts?

Wow, man. This kind of story makes me glad that I broke it off with a girl who started acting a little like this. I'm sorry to hear this happen to you. It's got to be hard, man. But it won't get any better. Like everyone else said, lose this girl and find someone better. From your post, it does sound like that you need someone to talk to... to sort out your issues... and I mean, in person. I'm kind of hesitant to say because you might react negatively to this, but have you considered seeing a councelor? (I am currently seeing one at my school.. so you're not the only one!)

I can't say I have any advice for you here as I have never been married (not even remotely close!) ... but I just wanted to say this: Normally, I resent people for cheating on each other and that is one of the reasons that I am wary of marriage. But man, your story was beautiful. It almost brought a tear to my eye. You were neglected by your own wife, and you needed someone to touch you, feel you, and make love to you. We all need that. We're human. I don't blame you for your actions... heck, if I were you I might have done the same thing! But as for your marriage... it sounds like something is definitely not right here. It may be a sign that you guys need to talk... and sorry to say it, but it may even be that you need to end the marriage if things don't get much better than this.

Umm... I know this guy, David Deangelo. Not in person, but I know what kind of advice he gives. IMHO, his advice is 50/50. It might work, it might not... depending on the person and the context. I'd take this with a grain of salt.

Your post here made me smile. I've seen the exact same thing in groups... there's always one person in each group that hogs the attention by talking too much. But I'm pretty sure that there'd be at least one other person that's also getting sick of the attention-hogging and would like to just have a different conversation with someone. So what I would do is stop trying to pipe a word or a story in... it's not worth the effort because the group is not likely to listen, and the "alpha" of the group would probably start talking over you too. I would sit back a moment and observe and watch who is getting bored, stops paying attention and starts looking around. Once you find that person, start a conversation with that person. And if you're able to get it going and hit it off with that person, and you guys start laughing and telling each other stories, others will want to join you and see what you're talking about. Then eventually you just might have everyone listening to you at some point... actually you did say that you don't want to be the center of attention, so I digress. But you get the idea. hope this helps.

Thanks all for your comments. It did cross my mind that she was looking for a way out, it did sound like it at some points. But either way, I don't want to be in a relationship where I'm the one doing all the work and she'd be taking it for granted. Are you sure you're not picking people that are bad communicators? I honestly have no idea. It's not like I can go on a date with someone and think to myself, "yeah, this person has great/lousy communication skills" .. it'd take some time to figure that out about a person... at least when the masks finally come off. The sooner the better, I suppose.

Hello, I'm new here. I found this forum because I was searching the net for relationship advice on how to build better relationships with women. I seem to have this pattern of ruining my relationships with women even before they mature. I didn't really see it until the last one I had. A little background first, before I get ahead of myself. I never really had a real girlfriend or a relationship longer than 2-3 months except for a long distance relationship I had a few years back. For the last few years, I had been in college and I partied a lot. A few flings here and there, but nothing serious. After a while though, I got pretty tired of the meaningless stuff and I started wanting something more substantial. Three months ago, I met a great girl about the same age as me. We hit it off so well, everything was great the first few weeks. We spent time together, talking, hanging out with her friends and my friends, going to a wine festival, making love... you know, the whole package. I thought I had found a great girlfriend and started to think of her along these lines. But one day, when she met up with me for dinner, she said she had to go home within an hour. That puzzled me a little bit, but she said she was tired from a long day at work. Ok, we all have days like that. Then she started cancelling our dates a lot. And sometimes she wouldn't return my emails or calls. It was getting to be like, for every 2 or 3 times I call her, she'd only send me one. I asked her "is everything okay?", and she said "it's all good. nothing's wrong." She kept saying that she wanted to see me, but she didn't really seem too enthusiastic about it like before. She kept saying she's always tired from being so busy at work... yet when I invite her to my place after she's done working for the day, she'd decline every time. This went on for a month. I got fed up. Didn't contact each other for a week. But I still kept thinking about her and the uncertainity and anxiety was starting to get to me. I couldn't concentrate on my homework (I'm in grad school). So I decided to tell her that we shouldn't see each other anymore. Normally, I would not do this over email, but trying to get her out to meet me in person even just for an hour was like pulling teeth, so I told her this on email. She responded... and it turned out that her friend had died the week before and she wanted to take it easy. Now that was a shocker for me. If ONLY I had known, I would've been there for her and made sure she'd be ok. But she didn't tell me. Why didn't she tell me? I don't know. But I still feel that I made the biggest mistake of telling her that we can't see each other anymore. I should have said "Hi, I haven't heard from you in a long time... is everything ok?" Maybe that way she'd talk to me about it and I'd be there for her, and everything would've been alright. But instead, I assumed too much and jumped to the conclusion that she didn't want to see me anymore and that she was blowing me off. I tried to take the break-up email back and explain to her how I felt, and that I wanted to talk to her in person. But she said that I'd gotten mad at her for cancelling a lot and that we don't need to meet again... and that she agreed that we shouldn't see each other anymore and that she understands. That was three weeks ago. And we have not talked to each other since. And I'm still beating myself up for it. I need to stop, I know that logically, but my feelings... I can't help what I feel. And this isn't the first time that I sort of freaked out and cut off a relationship before working out what was really going on. I need to get better at communication in relationships, and I don't want to mess the next one up by being needy or something. I need to stop that. What does it take to have successful relationships? Thanks in advance..