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OK, first the good news: Once you move on your ex is likely to try & get you back. The bad news: Once you move on you probably won't want them back. So, either way, you probably don't end up together, but at least you have the satisfaction of being the one to say, "No thanks...". My (very) new thing may or may not work out, but it served the purpose of breaking the spell my ex had over me & I have to believe that happened for a reason. Now when my ex calls (& he calls often) I know he can hear how happy I am & that I've emotionally un-hooked from him. He tries to talk about "us" and how he wishes we were back together, but I change the subject & remind him that things work out for the best in the long run. I'm not trying to deliberately hurt him, but it does give me some sense of poetic justice that this man is finally having to acknowledge that he lost someone great. Definitely a bittersweet feeling, but still better than feeling like I didn't matter in his life at all. Funny how getting to know someone great (who also thinks you're great!) changes your perspective. I will always wish my ex well, but I know now that he's not the one I want to be with.

My suggestion...Remind yourself everyday how lucky you are to have each other and think of a way to show your loved one how you feel...every single day. Also stay open to trying new experiences together...couldn't hurt, right?

In my opinion closure definitely helps...of course it needs to be done with the right attitude on both parts. When we split after 8 &1/2 years my guy just turned to another woman and wouldn't give me the time of day. I knew I'd made some mistakes, but after being together so long it hurt to not even be able to see him for 5 minutes. I was tormented by the lack of any kind of closure. Eventually he realized our time together meant something & we were able to talk & put a sense of closure on that chapter of our lives. We've been friends for about 5 months now & in some ways are closer than ever. (I think we may find our way back to more eventually, but I know we'll always be friends no matter what. ) We wouldn't be this far along now if we hadn't finally put closure on things from before. Hope that helps.

All the other posters are correct...put your effort into making your marriage work. Any second that you spend even thinking about this other man is a drain on your marriage. Try remembering why you first fell for your husband. If you two can't work it out, then break away cleanly and go from there. But don't think for a minute that the time you spend interacting with this guy isn't hurting your relationship with your husband...because it is.

How about for once forgetting your own pleasure and putting your children first...his and yours! It's like you two think it's only you in the world and others don't suffer due to your actions. You already said your husband has been hurt. How about leaving this married man A-L-O-N-E and finding happiness with a single guy before you rip 2 whole families apart even more! I just have no tolerance for the "I can't control my feelings" thing when it means married people going after other married people. Don't wedding vows mean anything? Nope, I guess you wiped your mouth with the engraved napkins from your reception & tossed them in the trash & the vows went right in with them!

I have to agree...don't give her the satisfaction of calling. She didn't follow through & that says a lot about her & what you would have to look forward to. You'll be fine with someone new & better!

I read an article on dealing with narcissism...very interesting as there seems to be a fine line between healthy self-esteem & being narcissistic. (for those not familiar with mythology, narcissists are totally self-absorbed, to the point of being in love with themselves...they require constant validation that they are indeed the most wonderful thing to happen. And their world is a roller coaster due to the fact that when they get that validation they are up, up, up...& when they don't get it - or get outright citicism - they are plunged downward.) If you suspect you are dealing with one (esp a love interest) you're better off knowing it. So here's the simple test... Ask the person, "What would you improve about yourself...?" Now, those with a healthy sense of self will have already given it some thought & can pretty quickly give you a few things they would like to improve upon. The narcissist will tell you he/she is pretty darn happy they way are & can't really think of anything that needs changing or improving. The point being, most of us realize we are a work in progress and the minute you think you're done you've lost touch with reality. Narcissists feel pain and anguish, but would never think of looking inward at how they might make things better. It's always someone else's fault that they are hurting...it has to be since the narcissist is perfect. I think about the fights my guy & I have had & how it always seemed to be my fault (OK, a lot of the time it was) & how he never seems to say, "Here's what I need to do differently..." We are going through a rough time & he's even seeing someone else, altho we are closer than ever as friends & he tells me he hopes we eventually patch things up. But, holy cow, if he's a narcissist, I will really be in for a tough life if we do get back together! I'm scared, but still so much in love!

My own experience has been when guys talk like this they are really in to you and are hoping your response to their comments will confirm that you are in to them, too. As another 'not-so-spring-chicken' I want to clarify that taking things slowly is relative. When we were 20's & 30's we needed a couple of years to be sure about something (or someone). After 40, I say your gut is the best barometer (assuming your life has been mostly good, healthy choices) and that a few months should be all it takes to know if someone is right for you. Just my perspective...best of luck with it.

ZWarren- I so totally agree. I don't like feeling this way (except for that fleeting few seconds when I crush the suckers) & I hope it passes soon. I'm not normally an angry person...guess I'm just still so torn up over my ex.

...that's the phrase that's come to mind a few times recently. It seems to happen when some guy expresses interest in me & I determine I have no interest in them. I say something to totally cut them off & as they wimper away I think, "hmmm...slice & dice..." Wonder if this is a result of recently being hurt & still not being over my ex? Is this a phase I have to go through while working my way back to feeling normal again? Example one...a guy I dated over a decade ago called me to just say 'hi.' Our story had ended when I broke it off because he constantly assured me that while he enjoyed being with me, I wasn't someone he would ever marry!!! I finally tired of being told, "You're not good enough for the long term...want to go see a movie?" & told him to bug off. Now, over a decade later over coffee he tells me there's not been anyone else like me & he'd like another chance! Ha! It was so my pleasure to tell him with a sweet smile, "No, no...you were right...we weren't meant for each other." He looked stunned. Then I gave him a big hug & walked away thinking, "Slice & dice". Example 2...met a guy at the grocery store (yes, it was in the produce section) & we ended up chatting in the check-out line enough to exchange #'s. Talked to him several times on the phone throughout the week & picked up on vibes that he's used to women pursuing him. Agreed to meet him for coffee on Sunday morning. Could tell he thought we were starting something...very smug attitude & all kinds of comments about activities we could plan. As we wrapped up coffee I just took so much enjoyment from saying, again sweetly, "Gosh, this has been great...I have to tell you tho, my ex & I talked last night & we've agreed to give things another try. Thanks so much for coffee & hey, have a nice day." His face went from smug assurance to 'what the hell' confusion in the blink of an eye. As I turned and walked away I thought once again, "Slice & dice, baby...slice & dice." Not proud of it, but it is how I'm feeling. (By way, both these guys were jerks, so maybe it will only come out when I feel I'm dealing with a self-assured womanizer.) Now if only I could 'slice & dice' the one guy who's turned my world upside down. He's the only one I don't seem to be able to cut out of my life. And I guess every other man I meet for now is going to pay for it. At least I'm aware of it and will try & keep myself 'off the streets' while I'm feeling this way. It's kind of like knowing you could turn in to a werewolf anytime. When you aren't one you want to warn people to stay away, but when you are one, you're just out for blood. (OK, now I've just scared myself.)

Say something like...I'd like you to know how much I care about our friendship. I hope you feel the same. Can we try spending some time together & not worry about the big issues for now & just have fun? (Never make a reference to not being able to get another guy...first of all, it's not true. Secondly, even if it was you would never want him to know that!) Best of luck with it!

You are so right...who knew he would pick a "ho"! Guess his judgment is really impaired! Thanks for the support!

I think you should tell him how you feel as soon as possible. Don't feel you have to wait until he calls you. Leave a message next time you call and tell him you'd like to meet to talk. Even if he isn't receptive to getting back together you will have clarified things and that might make it easier to move on. Good luck with it...I've been where you are & it is not fun. Hang in there, tho...things do get better.

My commitment to myself has been to not call him or e-mail him, but to be receptive if he calls me. (We split about 5 months ago & he turned to a rebound tramp asap...I tried hard to get him back at first, but have settled into just being his friend while he goes thru his 'mid-life craziness'.) He'd been pretty down (about her) when we talked Wednesday, so when he didn't call yesterday it was so tempting to call. But I reminded myself of the 2 reasons I implemented the rule: 1. He might not be alone & I would hate the awkwardness I know I would hear in his voice if he wasn't alone and 2. If he calls me I know he's thinking of me...if I call him I have no way of knowing whether he wants to talk & would feel rejected if he wasn't receptive to my call. Sure enough, he called late afternoon & talked about everything on earth-except her! Then, when I got home he was there mowing my yard. (We've never given back our keys & GDO's, so we each have access to the other's house still.) I gave him a big smile & chatted for a minute before saying 'adios' & going inside to change into my workout clothes...tiny little blue shorts & a white tank top. (Hey, I finally saw her last week...she's a pig- he said she's gained 20 lbs since they started dating-& she has smoker's skin which she tries to cover up with tons of make-up, so I know he's made the physical comparison.) When I heard the mower stop I bopped back out with an ice cold bottle of water. He may choose to be with her right now, but it can't hurt to remind him what he's walked away from. We chatted for a few while he chugged the H20 & then I thanked him for doing the lawn & said, "see ya..." & headed back inside to workout. (I wanted to be the one to end it so I wouldn't be standing there watching him drive away...God, I hate when that happens!) As I walked away he said, "Talk to you later...you sure look good," I laughed & said, "Thanks...so do you." and kept on going. The time I've spent listening to him whine about her has given me such a better perspective. I'm stronger than ever & know I will be ok however this works out. How about this for irony...I've been telling him that if she dumps him for good, he may look back & realize she did him a favor. Well, if he doesn't come to his senses & come back to me before I move on, I may look back someday & realize he did me a favor! Wouldn't that be a hoot! You know, I hate the game playing, but it seems required to make sure he doesn't just forget about me completely.

Thanks, BabyChristy, for your kind words and support...here's hoping you are right!

Here's the twist...He & I agreed to be friends after a tough break up. I always knew I wanted him back & told him…he told me he hoped we'd eventually work it out, but for now, with all our issues, friends is best. He turned to someone new who is treating him horribly. When she's being nice he calls me a few times a week, but that's it. When he's hurting over her he turns to me, so I get to spend more time with him, but I have to see him hurting. She dumped him again last Friday night, so we had all weekend and Monday after work to just do friend stuff...dinners, driving around, & lots of just late night talking on the phone. Well, she called him yesterday and yanked him back in. I know it's his own fault for putting up with it, but I keep thinking he'll come out from under her spell at some point and I want to be there as his friend when that happens. When you love someone it's hard to watch them make bad choices, but I so want to believe he'll do the right thing eventually. Even if it's never me again, I sure hope it won't be her. He called me late last night (guess it's become a habit in the last few days) & since we live really close, he came over and we went to get ice cream. He seemed relieved that she's back in his life, but wary of her pulling this over & over. I just let him talk & we had a good time just laughing about the messiness of coke floats in a moving vehicle. When he brought me home we cuddled for a few minutes and I knew it was the last time I'd see him for a while since she's back. Still wouldn't have missed a moment of being with him this past few days…how ironic that I have to hope she'll pull this again soon just so I can be with him. Since I love him, tho, I want him to have what he wants & for now that is her. Wow…I'm either the nicest ex-girlfriend on earth or the biggest idiot!

You sound like such a strong person! I know it's tough, but with your inner strength you will be OK...best of luck!

Talking with someone you've known for a while can be like decipering code. If you pick up on patterns in speech (or behavior) you might get an answer that's different than the actual words. Here's what happened when I decided to try & get my guy to either come back completely, or level with me that he no longer cared. I asked direct questions...Do you want to get back together?...Are you happy with what you're doing now? Heck, I even asked once if he felt I was throwing myself at him (this was during a partularly awkward phone call that I had made...learned my lesson there. I don't call him now. He calls me or we don't talk.) Anyhoo, I started noticing a pattern...If I asked a question about completely breaking up (Have you closed the door on us? Are you in love with someone else?) his answer would be a firm "no". If I asked the other kinds of questions (see above) his answer would be, "I don't know, Marsha...". I noticed he always said it the same way, using my name (not really Marsha, but you get the point) with the 'I don't know', then just trailing off. I finally figured out that when he answered like that he was protecting his pride and while he wasn't ready to get back officially, he wasn't going to say anything to burn the bridge with me. Again, this is from years of knowing him. (All the time we were an official couple if I would ask him to do something...go to an office function, etc. - which he hates - he would say, "I don't know, Marsha..." but invariably he would go. He would never give me a "yes" but would just start asking questions as the function got closer...What time does this thing start? What do I have to wear?) This is just an example, but it might help you to think about the whole picture. Not just her words at the time, but her actions...she called you later, etc. Hope this helps, "Marsha"

You asked for some quick tips...here are some things I do when I realize my worrying (fretting?) is getting out of hand, i. e., affecting my life... - Sort through the worries going 'round in your head and take them one by one to 'de-fuse' them. For example, the one about something you said to your boyfriend...ask yourself, "Have I made myself as clear as I can...would continuing to try & explain myself make it better?" Answer honestly (no right or wrong...just what you know to be true) and then let it go. - Learn to let go...sounds like a simple concept, but the ability to let go is a huge achievement. If you can tell yourself, I've done all I can for now and it's (whatever your worry is) out of my hands, so whatever will be will be, you might feel better. Not saying this can be accomplished overnight, but work on it and with time you may do a little less worrying. - It really is true that worrying solves nothing…taking whatever action you can & then letting it go is the best thing you can do for yourself. Good luck!!!

Amen!

Yay!!! Sounds like you are on the right track. Didn't mean to sound so harsh, but I was worried about you. I'm not now because I think you are seeing him for what he is...No, you don't have to call him that to his face. Just think it each time you see him (or hear from him) & you won't ever fall for his "friend" line. Best of luck with your exciting new job & a boyfriend who sounds great!

First, re-read your last few lines...you say "he's a good friend..." No he is not! Unless you define 'good' in a different way than the dictionary. Repeat after me...HE'S A CREEP, HE'S A CREEP, HE'S A CREEP! Repeat it until you get it, because he's counting on you not figuring that out. Second, what's he's doing is (in legal terms) harassment, pure & simple. The first lunch invite? No. The continued pursuing? YES!!! The very fact that he's told you he has no regard for attachments should have clued you in. I'm a little surprised you didn't see through this cretin (you're 19, not 12, right?) But I'm at least glad your instincts tell you something isn't right & that you asked for input. Don't mean to sound harsh to you, but I am so disgusted about this because this CREEP probably hits on everything that comes along...especially the younger (i.e., innocent) ones. Good Luck & don't forget...HE'S A CREEP - Don't worry about hurting his feelings (he has none). Whatever he asks, program yourself to answer, "NO!" Why? Because HE'S A CREEP!

Wow! Reading what you are going through makes me realize 2 things: 1. Others have goofy (& painful) break ups, too. 2. Yes, we are both obsessed! (But when you feel like you've lost the love of your life I think a little obsession is to be expected) I'm sorry you are going through this. I know how you feel and I know how painful it is to go through each day with the knot in your stomach. I've lost weight, can't sleep, break down at work (told my co-workers I have allergies), and generally am a mess over this guy who just isn't worth all this! I've been trying to read everything I can on "moving forward" and some of it helps. Still, I have my weak moments...like last night (See "I fell of the wagon last night" for details) Bottom line is this: These guys don't have the guts to tell us it's over, so they give us tiny crumbs of affection, which just keep us hanging on. We should be strong & say "enough...I don't want you anymore if you don't want me!" Here's hoping we both find the strength soon to just let these bozos go & find someone who appreciates the great women we are!

I've been doing so well at not calling my ex-boyfriend. (Long story short, I broke up with him about 4 months ago & regretted it immediately. I tried to undo it...apologized & took complete responsibility, but he was too angry to give us another chance & turned to someone else. We've continued to see each other once in a while...usually when he just shows up at my house for a surprise visit...& he calls me every few days) No matter how much I miss him I just remind myself that if he wanted to be with me, he would be. It usually works, but last night I just wanted to be with him so much I caved & called. He was home alone (yay!) & I asked if I he wanted company for a little while. (I live just down the street & the new woman in his life lives 30 miles away & I confess to taking advantage of the geographics) As always, it was good to be together & he makes it clear he still has feelings for me. I've told him I want to give it another chance, but he says he's not sure what he wants & while he hasn't closed the door on us, he's not dropping this other woman to come back to me. He has also said if I have to have a decision from him now (about getting back together), then his answer would have to be "no". No heavy discussions last night, tho, just hung out at his house, played with the dog, talked about our days & mutual friends. A nice visit which included some cuddling. Still, I know he will spend time with her this weekend...she gets the date time now...I get the impromptu midweek visits - & THAT HURTS! Now I feel like I have to start all over with building up my reserve not to call him. Question: Since there's another person in the picture do I step back completely, hoping he'll miss me & get enough of her to get past what seems to be a rebound relationship? Or will stepping back just give her a clear field to move in completely on my guy? Does my staying in the picture help remind him of what we had (& what he's throwing away)? Or does it just keep us all in limbo, with his feelings for both her and me blurred...seeing us both, but not really WITH either of us? [/i][/b]

Thanks...needed to hear it.