turqoise

hello, hmm, this is an old thread, but just in case you`re still there... I also have trouble making good friends, and even at social clubs it was mainly on a superficial level that I met people (though it was good to have something in common and something to do). One thing I did find good, was going for a short backpacking trip around an area of the country. For a week, I just went by myself, and booked myself into little independent backpackers which seemed cosy and friendly and checked out some sights. And wow, I found people who were also travelling alone from different countries, and who were super-friendly and down-to-earth. I would meet someone, or they would come up and say hello while I was fixing up breakfast, and we would find out we were going to see the same thing. People backpacking individually, or who stay in small cosy backpackers generally seem really keen to make friends. They`re not in groups, they`re independent, they`re open adn they understand that everyone else is in the same boat as them. In 4 weeks I met 4 different people who I still keep in strong contact with, and consider good friends almost 3 years after meeting them. It was the easiest way that I`ve ever made so many friends and I would really recommend trying it.

hey, sorry to interrupt, but I was reading this and just wanted to say what an awesome discussion! Shes2smart, your insight into life is awesome!! To butterfly cloud. Not to detract from what shes2smart is saying (her advice will be way better than mine), but I love this topic and I wanted to add a comment.... i think that the event of meeting someone is not so much an event to aspire to, or try to make happen quickly by your thoughts as it is just another development in your own life journey. So you still have to jump over certain hurdles to be ready. An analogy might be, say a 15 year old kid wanting to buy a house. As much as she wants to find and buy that perfect house as soon as possible, she may not be ready - there are experiences, information, maturity, means she is lacking, although she may not necessarily be aware of these. So instead of just thinking about the house, the best way to set off on the path towards the house (among lots of other things she`s going to get out of life), is to listen to her intuition or gut feeling every current moment. Intuition alerts you to what you are needing the most right now, and provides, part by part, the best directions (albeit very often illogical) to get you where you need to go in life to fulfill all your dreams. A saying i once heard, which I quite like is: There is no such thing as coincidence. Every person has a purpose in life. Just follow your Intuition and the universe will provide you with exactly what you need exactly when you need it. So rather than think about meeting that someone, I reckon maybe it`s better to focus your energy on what you need to do for yourself now. And only you can do this by paying attention to yourself, treat each moment as `now` and act according to your intuition, they string themselves into a chain of time, opportunities to learn, and before you know it, you`ll be there! lots love

Heyho, thought I would post an update. I finished the CBT about a month ago, and it helped with recognising the warpy thoughts I have, and desires like the need I have to succeed. On a sidenote though, I have noticed a much more immediate and effortless change in my thoughts since adjusting my supplements - and I think the fact that my thoughts always turn negative are due to some kind of chemical imbalance, and that if I address that first, my thoughts will naturally become more balanced. In other words, I think (for me personally, at least) thoughts can be balanced more effectively biologically rather than behaviourally. Having said that, I think I have something called adrenal fatigue (and possibly thyroid dysfunction) which is apparently often mistaken for, and occurs alongside depression. If you have depression, you might want to check this out: link removed

heyho. The Diving Bell and The Butterfly recommended here. Wow. That`s a one-of-a-kind book. 5 for content, but an overall 8.5 just because, when are you ever going to hear from someone who`s basically totally paralysed who can tell you their thoughts? He sounds like a courageous man. Along a similar vein is `My Life` by Marc Chagall. You get to see into the odd and romantic mind of a personable artist. Nice short read.

I`m glad you`re still around, mate. I thought you`d gone. Be nice if you replied...hmm or maybe that`s a hint?? Either way, it sounds like you`re going through this whole thing alone... I`m sure there`s bound to be someone who can help you out if you give us an idea of where you`re at.

Bestrongbehappy, do you know if anyone`s succeeded in winning a hearing against them? I`m pretty sure he would try and blame my depression for forgetfulness etc, and it`s true, part of my condition causes forgetfulness, but not everything! The guy also told me I just had unrealistic expectations...but it`s like hearing my ex telling me that when I thought he was cheating on me it was all in my head. Geez. A head * * * * is the last thing i need.

There were a couple of sickle shaped ones which he said was due to lack of iron and B12. Then there were a couple with bumpy perimeters which he said were damaged by radicals (he gave someterm for it which i can`t remember). Then he showed a cluster of dry blood(have no idea what that means) and said the white gaps in the centre of the round cluster showed adrenal fatigue. That`s pretty much most of what he said. Regarding naturopaths, there are good ones out there. Good naturopaths are like a cross between a doctor and a nutritionist. If you`re sick they look at your symptoms but also your diet and lifestyle, then give you advice, prescriptions or referrals, which usually includes - supplements, food, exericise, meditation or counselling. Any athelete will know the direct impact that food has on their health - it`s the same with a regluar person. There are many conditions that are much more easily and safely fixed just by identifying what nutrition your body is lacking. As you say, St Johns is one of the more widely accepted. Check this article out by a good naturopath - link removed There are schools which specialise in alternative therapies and massages where people get their degrees usually. Unfotunately, naturopaths are part of what`s termed alternatie therapy, and as such, there`s no standard or law to keep them in check. So yes, it`s a big risk getting a useless person. As for the diagnosis and treatment of depression, this is a tricky topic. Even conventional medication is still hit and miss, and as far as I understand, noone still knows exactly how depression is caused... Studies have found that both medical and psychological therapy together produces the best results, but there are still many that are worse off because of these. Well, you would know! Actually, I would be interested to hear how you would describe depression from a neuroscientist/psychologist`s point of view.

totally agree with karvala, live dream after dream! I am arty and into a bit of music too. I have always enjoyed art, and found it easy, and wanted a career in something arty. But I was pursuaded by my parents to study law. Here`s my story (FYI, I`m a sensitive old soul). 1. I wasn`t attracted to law in any way, but my parents convinced me it would provide a stable career. I was lost so I studied 3 out of 5 years, all of them exruciatingly boring, stifling, and surrounded by ratrace, commerce people. 2. I met a waiter in my 3rd year who gave me advice that I follow to this day: Let your heart tell you where you want to go and your mind work out how to get there. Not the other way around. It was then that I realised that if I continued and graduated with law, I would go work at a law firm. If I worked, I woul take the bar exam. At least another 5 years wasted following my mind unless I stopped going down this awful path now. 3. I ended up training and working as a teacher, still worried about financial security and being an artist was out of the question. But I realised I dind`t want to be a teacher, and at the age of 27 I am back home (OK, well partly because I`m suffering from depression and I haven`t been able to work these last 6 months). 4. I am now back to painting. I have something individual that I want to create and share with people which doesn`t yet exist. I am realising that it`s a waste of my spirit if I choose to stifle this, and if I`m going to pursue it I should do it wholeheartedly and see just how much beauty I can create. A cartoonist I met in germany told me: `I`m not a great cartoonist. But you know what, it`s not the best that make it, it`s the ones with the most perseverence. You begin with 100 people asipiring to be cartoonists. 3 years later only 50 people are still trying, everyone else has given up and gone onto some regular job. 10 years later, you`re one of the few that stuck by their guns and can make a living out of it` Obviously doesn`t apply to everything...but from my point of view there are two kinds of people. Those who are creative, and those who aren`t. Those who aren`t are happy working for someone, seeing life as job/leisure. I know many people like that. Those who are creative like to pursue their own path, whatever field that may be in, and they see life always as an exciting pusling thing. So I think you just have to be careful not to let the uncreative ones tell you to settle for something that they are comfortable with - because they can`t see what you can. I believe that odds don`t mean anything if you are determined enough. And if you really enjoy something, or become passionate about it, you have effortless determination. I say, surround yourself with positive, encouraging people (these are the people who will be the difference to whether you make it or not, because they will string your determination the times you run out), and go for it.

ok guys. thought I`d share as briefly as i can the surreal experience with a so-called reputable naturopath i had the other day. I`ve had depression, and have been taking supplements for the last 4 months. I wanted a naturopath to listen to the supplements that i was already taking, check out my diet and my general state of being, and tell me whether I was on track, and if not, explain where I was lacking and how to fix it. He was going to be $120/1.5 hours, plus additional `product` expenses. The follwing are what showed me what an incompetant, unprofessional, money-making, disorganised guy he was. 1. As most naturopaths do, he had asked me to send him a filled questionnaire of my health and medication before our appointment. HOWEVER, when I got there, he lied about having read it. (You could tell he had no idea from the questions he was asking, and the reactions to those questions. Plus he lied about not reading it until I proved him wrong whereupon he went silent) 2. So he spent at least 20 minutes ($30 for me) asking me lots of questions including many that I had already answered in the questionnaire. He completely ommitted many questions which should have been relevant (eg. what has your diet been like these last few days, what has your mood been like lately, how do you compare feeling in the morning with at night etc. absolute standard questions from any decent pro on depression) 3. When I mentioned that I thought the cause of my depression had something to do with a breakup, he immediately went into counselling me for about 20 minutes. Very badly, too. Basically, he asked me if I had many friends, then told me I should join a social club. That was it. Another $30 for me. 4. At teh last 15 minutes, he did a blood analysis, bringing a slide of my blood up on screen and pointing out what each cell meant, and what was deficient. He went through it really quickly, didn`t explain then went straight on rushing around the office picking up about 4 bottles of supplements which he printed out an invoice for, and booked me in for two sessions for a thing called microcurrent treatment, which he barely explained. I explained to him twice that I needed to be well-informed before I could justify trying something, but he again would not explain properly, and I was rushed out, being told that he had a phonecall he had to take. 5. I called him the next day and told him simply: I`m sorry but after researching and talking to a few people about my session with you yesterday, I don`t feel like you diagnosed me properly, and I don`T think I need at least 2 of the 4 supplements you sold me. I would like my money back please. Immediately, he responded by saying: `certainly not!` Then proceeded, in an extremely defensive manner, how it was all because of my condition that I thought he wasn`T good, that I had such bad memory and concentration and I didn`t remember half the things that happened in the consultation..OMG Then, he said that I had no right discussing things that he had said to anyone else, and that I needed to trust him (?!?!). Bloody hell. ](*,) Then he said that I had to trust him, and that unless I trusted someone I would end up going around in circles and never be better. What the . Manipulation is an understatement. Geez. If that was even 1 month ago I think I would have been persuaded, but at this point I can see the swindler for what he is. I am trying to get my money back, though he did ring back and offered just to give me $150 back for the products. He tells me the rest I can`t have back because it was time that I contracted. . I contracted his service. Which was severely under par. He better be scared because I`ve got 3 avenues of action I`m going to take against him. So beware everyone. This guy uses the right professional grade supplement products, he claims to have been practising for 20 years, and have dealt with and cured hundreds of depressed people, has a degree, and is part of a naturopath society thing. I thought I had asked the right questions, but he has also set himself up pretty well. My advice on finding a good therapist: 1. Ring a naturopathic education centre, ask a lecturer for several recommendations. Do this for several schools. 2. Check out naturopath societies via citizens advice bureau, and check out their websites for lists of people. Or call the president of the society for recommendations. 3. Ask the naturopath: -how many people with depression have you treated in the last year? How many have you completely cured? Would anyone of them be willing to talk to me? If they give a definite number (say, 6) then it`s good. Even better if they can describe briefly the kinds of patients they`ve had (manic depressive, now they check in every 2 years). If they are iffy, then hang up right there. -what can I expect in a first session? Should be at least a health check and listening to history of condition. Come away with some initial things that may help, but check in in 2-3 weeks time again. education and explanation of the mechanics of the symptoms, and tips on how to improve them. -how much it will cost? Well, another naturopath I rang later cost $50 for 1 hour. that`s not everything; just what i`ve learned from my nice experience. jeez, it`s one thing to sell a bad car or something, but to take advantage of someone with bad mental health is totally rotten. I hope nobody else has had a bad experience, or is having one. People in the healing profession should be the most moral people in society, and they should embody that when they decide on this profession.

eh? let me check.

nope. i`m probably in denial; the two things that hit me when i thought i might be gay were: 1. i can`t have a normal family and kids and just live quietly among everyone. 2. people will think i`m into girl sex. which I`m not - i totally like having sex with guys and would miss that if i were in a female relationship. ok, so i`m staying away from relationships, so i have no idea which gender i`ll be attracted to next. i mean, this could mean i`m bi, which i would be much happier with, but i have yet to meet a straight man who can keep me engaged and is also into me - and that`s the important thing in a relationship right? totally. english, english. I`ve been reading about english. i blame the lack of expression to the fact that it went through a stage of being a peasant language hundreds of years ago. i make up words from time to time; maybe we should make new ones up. there needs to be a nicer word for lesbian, anyway. i don`t know...am i wrong when i get the impression that there is a higher proportion of gay men who are good at some form of art? like an instinctual tendency towards some things more than others? sort of like how there will always be a higher percentage of men who watch sports than women. i told you gay is in. i always thought that lesbians were checking girls out, adn were either butch and short-haired and had poor sense of style, and were a bit tunnel-visioned(sorry!!! i`m just being honest) but that`s based on the few lesbians I`ve met and more of what I`ve seen on tv and at parades.

hi ho, just wanted to say that following some recommendations fromt this forum i read the five people you meet in heaven. im giving it 6.5 out of 10. my review: if you are unsure about the afterlife, or the meaning of life, then it`s a pretty great read adn will provide you with another way of seeing how life works. if you`re already pretty happy about those things then the book is very average. sorry if you love the book...just adding an honest opinion

thanks intothefire! yeah, we`re complex beings definitely...and definitions can restrict us so much, huh? i saw this science programme today about sexuality - it began with the statement that in our world there are not just two sexes, though we usually think so in humans at least. There are organisms that have 4 sexes (AB, Ab, aB, ab), 7 sexes, even 30 sexes! it was the 4 sexes bit that got me thinking about homosexuality..though reproduction isn`t possible between homosexuals now, maybe we`re at the cusp of a sexual evolution! (haha...just kidding) pianoguy, you put me in check i forgot about checking the heterosexual definition, though reading it, i don`t like that it`s also based on sex. being homosexual or gay is supposed to be the opposite equivalent, though i don`t think the terms are used in an evolutionary sense. Maybe there needs to just be a new term altogether that implies romantic attraction - i like the way you summarised it by the way you made a great point that it could also be the gay culture that invites the sexual stigma. hmm, i don`T know the gay culture that well, but whatever the reason, I`m just peeved that there`s so much sexual connotation that is stuck to gay, homosexual, lesbian. As i said it was a big reason why i didn`t/don`t want to think i might be gay. If i say im lesbian, the first thing that i think will pop into someone`s head is `lesbian lovers`! I`d rather be a gay guy than a lesbian girl...if you`re gay everyone loves you because you have style, and this energy, are interesting to talk to, and you have good taste! Lesbians...i don`t know. Though possibly being one, I wonder if lesbians have a tendency to be really honest and direct compared to other girls? is that cool??

thanks for your replies guys (girls, everyone). i really like it that there are so many people who accept gayness. you are all people that i would love to be around, definitely. my post was actually less about being afraid of being gay, and more about the what`s implied when you say you`re gay. shellshocked says that it`s more an emotional attraction. the others seem to say that it`s some kind of mental/emotional attraction. the current definition of being gay emphasises sexual attraction. for me, it implies that gay people are more sexual than striaght people, like they`re thinking of sex all the time or when they meet someone they`re thinking mainly of having sex with them: `a person, usually a man, who is sexually attracted to people of the same sex`-oxford). i think this is a big reason for the stigma attached to being gay, and i want to know whether you agree that this definition sucks. i also wanted to ask whether you would agree more with my definition of gay: `a person who is mentally, emotionally and physically attracted to someone of the same sex`) i just think that it would be easier to accept gay people and being gay yourself if `being gay` didn`t focus on the sex part.

hi everyone, this is my first post in a while. i came here asking lots of questions a while back and learned a lot - thanks everyone! one of the things that i struggled with was the fact that i might be lesbian. it * * * *ing freaked me out because of all the prejudice that i associated with it...until yesterday. i had an epiphany which i want other people to confirm. ok. i always that being gay was about your sexual orientation. that`s what we learn and hear all the time. it freaked me out because though i thought i might like girls, it disgusted me to think about having sex with a girl. but do you know what?? i reckon being gay (or lesbian, at least) is when your mind is attracted to minds of the same sex. as someone who might be gay, i have always found that guys, while straightforward to talk to, are not as interesting to talk to as girls, who have this complexity about them. i think stright-forward mind + complex mind = harmony. i think for gay people (or anyone in between at any degree) their minds aren`t the usual minds you find in a straight guy or girl. so naturally a gay guy won`t find the same harmony with a girl and vice versa. Straight or gay, you fall in love with someone because of their mind, their personality, their energy first and foremost, not because of their sexuality. i think it`s misleading and wrong to say that being gay is all about sexual attraction. I think that is what gives some people the impression that gay people are really sexual, and maybe even disgusting or lesser than straight people . so. being gay should be defined as: being mentally, emotionally, physically attracted to someone of the same sex. don`t you reckon??

Hi, i just want to say Comfyshoes, you have summed up pretty much what happened to me in my last breakup! That you have put it in words makes it make sense a bit more! Isn`t it weird, the more distance you feel the more clingy you get, and yes! you get conditioned to be jealous!! For a long time I thought that was my own fault, but this makes me feel like I`m not that much of a freak as my ex told me I was at the end. I was never jealous until I started going out with him, because he was jealous and suspicious of me all the time! Completely agree. In total it`s like a whole load of contradictions that you have to deal with at once , eh. I recently think that it makes it easier thinking that he did love me completely all that time, and that he still does. If I think that, despite all the things he said and did, it somehow feels easier to be apart. I guess because you just feel more secure, and able to let someone you love and who knows loves you, be? lots of hugs to you selfi. glad you`re seeing the end of that tunnel

You have to find what you WANT to do. If you focus too much on the things you want to get away from (lack of money, dependency, lack of freedom) then it will be tricky to do anything and you`ll just end up in another situation that you want to eventually get away from. I still think you sounded excited about the au pair thing, and find it curious that you`re suddenly curling back in on yourself. Like many people here have said, it is a first step which can help you find the next. Why are you getting so hung up on the fact that it`s a finite position?

I`ve read that people have refused anaesthetics to prevent scarring (it numbs it so afterwards the blood cells don`t do their regular tissue healing as efficiently as usual). I guess it depends how much pain you`re willing to go through and how worried you are about possibly having a little scar.

I`m no therapist, but instinctively, if they are born with it, then it means they`re born with something that hinders them living...well ok, so there are people with disabilities too, but the point is I think that a negative state of the mind is even more precarious than physicality because it affects everything. Everything. It`s like a self-destructive state, which is different and far more harmful than having a disability. Would we be born with genes that caused us to lean towards self-destruction/self-damage? I don`t know. Either way I guess it makes no difference to someone who is stuck being depressed. Empathising with someone is supposed to be about acknowledgement of their existence with their current feelings I think. But that`s interesting you would feel worse...I`m glad I posted cos there have been varying responses to this - just goes to show, eh?

mm, maybe. No, I meant their personalities. Like what another poster said, a lot of the guys came because their girlfriends dragged them, and while we did partner-swapping in most of the classes I attended...I don`t know, there wasn`t anything much deeper there with most people there. And it didn`t improve when I moved up either... But the dancing and learning to dance was fun, definitely. Shy/quiet; joining a group will help either way. That is if you are willing to chip off alone time in order to find new friends. I find that people with the same balance of interests and perspectives as me, who I can genuinely enjoy any moment with, are rare and hard to come by. But if you make the start of an effort they gradually appear, one by one. So if you haven`t made great friends at Toastmasters, try something else. If having a car improves your mobility, get one. And then when you`ve moved out, you can go and explore and be adventurous

Nah, you`ll be OK leaving him. It`s only natural that both of you will want to hang onto the relationship when there is the prospect of it ending. Like moving to a new place - you always miss the place you`ve known, as out-grown of it as you may be. The fact you came to this site listing all those things sounds like they`re ongoing issues. Some of the things you point out make it sound like you have some different values, which are things that are hard to live with and hard to change! You actually sound like you`d like to make friends just as much as (or maybe even more than?) meeting men so I agree that it`s a great idea to join a class, club or organisation of some kind. One that you`re really keen on. Here are my experiences (as I`m pretty shy too): -dance classes (ballroom, latin and ceroc were all fun) though I found that people were friendly but curiously awkward. -I got the most out of joining reputable little community and night art classes (which were great because people that gather tend to be so diverse and interesting, and I love finding someone who has a similar level of artisticness as me and getting to know them) -I joined an aikido dojo (I found this was great because it was more mentally stimulating than sports, not as physically hard as other martial arts, flexible timetable, plus people were so nice and you could drop in at any dojo any time around the world and make new friends!). With the two latter I found that you don`t have to talk much, but before you know it, you find that you`re talking with someone genuinely. Good luck

Congratulations SG Linda is lucky to have a caring mum who is following her motherly instincts! I reckon you`re totally right in being there for her!! Go Mum!

geehee..true dat

That`s great this exists in the West too. Though from the article, I`m not sure whether the depth of empathy that`s described is quite the same..? The idea I posted is a traditional African method. The Healing Wisdom of Africa, by Malidoma Patrice Some. He has some extemely insightful observations about the psychological state of Western society and how to deal with it. Yeah, basically it is used to help someone get back to their normal state....though can a person actually start with a depressive personailty??

OK, this is crude, but I`m very curious; when being intimate do lesbians ever miss/want a penis? as in that desire of having one inside you? Because toys are another thing...or do you not miss it as long as you`re with someone you love??