AnotherChick

To answer your question, "What do I do now?"...you move on. I'm not sure why you are so sure you will never find someone. Especially after stating that she was the "lessor attractive" of the two. You seem to have passive-aggressive confidence. So, to keep this short, I would say go date. Go hang out with your buddies, go to movies, go enjoy life. Above all, quit worrying about what she is doing. Things will start looking up. Good Luck!

I find it interesting you are wondering about my suggestions versus the ever popular "no contact" rule that so many people reference on this forum. When I typed that, I actually though about whether or not you would notice my advice contradicts every other post about everyone else's break up experiences. So, take another look at my sig line. "No real answers here, just lots of life experience". You are right, she seems like high drama, and stubborn. I called that out the first time. However, my concern is not really about her, because she isn't posting anything to my knowledge. Based on your posts, you just seem to be adhering to the "space" rule, while she continues to reach out. You are hurt because you want her back, so when she reaches out you drop "hints", make excuses to talk around the issue, when you really just need to get this off of your chest. My opinion, you're going to lose your opportunity to share this. Then it will be too late, and you may miss your chance. High-maintenance, stubborn, drama queen, or immature....you must care about her for a reason! If you take my suggestion and do the list excersize, my point was simple that you need to do it for you. Not because of your need for a desired outcome. You're just giving up because you don't think you can make a difference and you're not sharing stuff when she calls. I'm not saying throw your heart out on the table. I'm saying throw the facts out on the table and be clear with her that this is just how you see it. She can take it or leave it. But you are taking the opportunity to get it out there. She may still reject you. Who knows. I do know this. Recently a man that I care a lot about and dated for 11 months completely screwed up everything between us. Just because he was scared, used to his own time an definitely coming accross SELFISH. I cared about him so much but said screw it. I'm done. I'll get over this. I didn't talk to him for about a month. I figured he would do just what you are describing you are doing. Never have the guts to say anything to me, thus dooming our relationship. Fortunately, he had mustered up the kahoonas to come to me and point out how he screwed up, why he did it, what he realizes he needs to change, and that he sincerely wants to because he did care about me after all. We have had a good second chance so far. That's why I'm suggesting you quit screwing around and step up to the plate with this stuff. Good luck!

I hate to say this, because I see that you are upset by all of this, but you are acting and speaking like a stereo-typical, manipulative, pocessive guy. You're young (sounds like) and you're trying to rationalize these feelings, but really, take a few days and read what you have typed. Then, think about her as your friend. Would you want to hear a guy say that stuff about any other girl friend, or even a sister? I mean, you even tossed in arrogant there at the end. Cut contact with her, and leave this poor girl alone. At the same time, just do your own thing and try to learn from these new experiences. I don't think you are a bad person, and furthermore I don't think you want to be this kind of person, so you need to stop. Take care and Good Luck!

Readheadone... Goodness! I am so happy I checked on your story. I was really pleased to see the new posts. However, I was concerned about the last one because I could see the hope had faded some. Did she say something to you after the conversation about family members, schools, etc. I'm not trying to send you mixed signals, and I stand by my observations so far, but it was very refreshing to hear you say some of the stuff about how "I thought I wasn't good enough..." and "...now I realize no one else is good enough for them". You found some confidence, then it all eeked away by the last post. So here's the deal. As I've followed what has been going on with you and your girlfriend, the common theme is you saying that you have dropped hints about your feelings and desires. If you still have feelings and she is still talking to you, you need to step up to the plate and quit with the hints. Get down to it. I mean get down to all of it, and don't miss a beat. Make a list of your feelings. Make a list of where you feel she misunderstood you. Make a list of things you want to work on. Make a list of things about her that concern you (from the point of view that you are concerned about her welfare and not being accusatory) Make a list of all the things you have felt since the break up. Make a list of how she has hurt you Finally, make a list of all the things you think you need to apologize for. That is a lot of lists, but do it, and shoot them over to her. Just get all that crap out on the table for her to look at all the facts. If she doesn't come back, then you know you have done your due diligence. If she sees all that she may realize she wants to come back. Just perform this act without any expectations except that YOU GAVE IT YOUR ALL. One thing I have learned is that if you care about someone, then you and them are both worth the effort. Right now, I think you need to get some of this stuff off of your chest as much as you need her to know it. K. I'm out here in cyberspace cheering for you! Good luck!

That dialogue seemed to get a little tense. However, there are some really good points. Kate, you're list had some valid points. Sometimes the "breaker upper" breaks up because the other party seems needy. This has happened to me. Then, when the person who was dumped doesn't call, thereforeeee proving they are NOT needy, the "breaker upper" realizes they were wrong. I think that sums up your list really. All that would make sense because, as humans, we all tend to be wrong at one time or another. Ziggy, was very right, that your list was on the negative side. Sometimes an ex will call just because THEY CARE. They might care, even though they know they were the cause of your pain. I think that mere fact that they care is very positive. Finally, I know from first hand experience that Ziggy had another good point. You can't try to read minds. It will drive you crazy. I can say I have done that and driven myself crazy. If he's still calling you, just say..."can I let you go, I've got something going on.", or even "I need to call you back" then you don't really even have to call them back if you don't want to. But if you excersize that a few times, he will really go away. If you feel for him still, and he's calling. For goodness sake, take the calls and work on the relationship. Sometimes everyone is worth a second chance. Even you when it comes to giving a second chance to your own feelings. I wish you all the best! Good luck!

Yeah, you need to just buck up and go for it. Look at this as a personal goal because this won't be the first time in your life will find yourself in this situation. Here's what I've done: Find a moment, take a deep breath and say "1, 2, 3, GO!", then execute some rehearsed line you have stored up your head. A previous poster had a really good one about crossing paths. Or you can just make it REALLY SIMPLE, by saying "Hi, I'm.... and I've noticed you around." Trust me...and I mean TRUST ME....he'll think you are all the more hot for it! I wish the all the best Sista! Good luck! (Sounds like this guy is as good as yours already!)

What I suspect (rather than what I know) is that she likes you and is looking for some security to put her true feelings out on the table. I know that security can be an important thing for people before they will go the extra mile with their feelings. If you're putting up barriers or limitations that will make her all the more insecure. (i.e. pointing out that it will take awhile to get out of friends mode) I know you are probably a little tender from the first time around, if you decided to go back out with her, then you might need to take a second and ask yourself, "Am I really ready for this?" If you are, then just go for it. If she pulls away, or something goes wrong, you at least gave it a shot. You can't blame yourself for giving someone you care about a second chance. So, simply put, the "in love" might be how she feels, but she is insecure and looking to you for the security to share more of herself. She may also feel freaked that you won't forgive her for the first break up too. Again, pointing to some insecurities she may have about your relationship. I'm very much insecure and skeptical, so I wouldn't just give someone advice to throw themselves to the wolves, but I think she's telling you what she needs to get to the "in love" thing if you listen closely. I wish you all the best!

Well, there are obviously a lot of folks on the forum tonight who feel very strongly that sex and age are directly related. K, listen up. This isn't to scare you. Do think it over before you go there. Just because this is your first. Just make sure it's special to you and to her. Make sure you wear a condom. Once you've covered those two bases, relax. I lost my virginity early, but I have never necessarily been with a virgin. What I can tell you is that girls aren't very savvy with sex in the beginning either. It took me many times before I enjoyed it. AND the actual sex part isn't always where it's at. Learn a little about foreplay...specifically oral, or just using your hands. If you get her off before the actual sex part, you are pretty much off the hook. You can be done in 5 minutes and yet both of you be satisfied. She'll think you're a god because you took care of her before taking care of yourself. And you'll feel like you've conquered the world because you pleasured and lost your virginity with someone you REALLY care about. Total Win\Win. K, the "rape" comment was because she's under age, and "legally" that's rape, even if she consents. Whatever. People have been having sex despite all of that for centuries. Just WEAR A CONDOM MAKE SURE YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT HER AND READ UP ON SOME FOREPLAY. May the force be with you!

*cough, cough* Well, I'm not sure if I want to be the a** who shares that they have actually BEEN the person who used that line, but maybe this will help. My ex and I were together for 7 years. Lived together 6.5 of those years. Well, about 3 years into it, I was worn thin. He was my best friend and confidant, but a sex maniac. I mean, by the 4th year, I learned to practically shower in a turtleneck. I used that line with him because it was true. In my case, I wasn't in love with him, but loved him. I told him this because I wanted to get back to the "in love" with him part. Over the next 2 years we had some good times and we almost rekindled the "in love" part. Alas, it just wasn't meant to be. Plus, I was tired of being paranoid when I was naked. So, in my case, I used the line as a desparate plea for him to help me. In many ways, he did try. So, I don't know if that applies to your situation, but I had to play devil's advocate. I wish you all the best!

Well, I know you said you aren't comfortable calling her, but I think you should. It sounds like that is your only chance unless you have mutual friends who can hook you up by getting you in the same place she is. I've had a couple of my now ex boyfriends just call me. I have to tell you, I thought it was nice. Mostly because I was thinking the same thing about whether or not I had a chance with them. I guess I live by the words "what have you got to lose.", so if it were me I would just call. If that's not you, try the mutual friends thing, or make it a point to be somewhere you know she will be. Good Luck!

Thank you so much for your response. Your statements are echoing a lot of stuff running through my mind too. I hear you on the part about making my own demands. I'm there. I really just feel like I should do that because I'm not concerned about it making things more difficult between us or even if I scare him off. The stuff that has changed. To put it briefly, he has been calling me and he wouldn't do that before. He makes time for me on the weekends and during the week when he can without making it sound like a drain on his time. He actually talks with me. Not at me. That was a big change that I figured he just didn't have in him. So, to his benefit, he's made some strides. However, maybe it's just not enough to make "us" work. I'm addressing whether this has a future. I'll come to a conclusion fairly soon. I'm not one to let things lie too long. The only problem is that for some reason I care for him. Thank you again for the advice.

Well, the thing to realize is that you are not trailblazing here. This is your own story, but others have lived it too. When I was much younger, I was much like what you describe in yourself. I'm not trying to downplay your feelings at all. I'm just saying you aren't alone with these thoughts. They are good or healthy or even normal, but others have been there and done that. Absorbing that concept has helped me immensely. Don't apply it to your suicidal thoughts, but apply it to what is bugging you. Example: my girlfriend left when I needed her. Applied Logic: Thank goodness I'm not the first schmo to date a cold shrew. Another Example: my parents think I'm a failure. Applied Logic: grandma & grandpa would like to point out paybacks are a b***h I don't really know how old you are, so I'm stabbing in the dark at examples that apply. My personal experience: I'm done. No one cares. I don't care. I don't have the urge to bother anyone with my whining. I'm taking this whole bottle. Applied logic: God said "No.", so I'm going to continue to make the best of this world. And I have. You can too.

Well Michael had some great points! I've been the ex calling, because I am miserable and that person was the only person who could sometimes make it better. In that case, I had the upper hand because there was a very good reason he was my ex. I've been the dumpee implementing the no contact rule. Like stated in countless other posts, he came crawling back. I let him sneak in for a few weeks, then stated this was NOT working and the no contact rule was back in affect. At which point, he begged to come back. I let him back, and just as stated before, now I have no idea what to do with him. Trust has been blown. I have no idea what made him come back. But after "no conact" he did. I've also been the needy, whiny, dumpee who didn't implement the no contact rule when she should have and the dumping was reinforced again, and again, and again. Thus proving that not giving space fails. I've been the dumper, followed by no contact. Now that I think of the dynamic of the no contact rule, that one is EXTRA cruel. I feel bad now. Thanks. In then end, I don't really have reasons...just that I can attest to what your saying. Why does it have to be so stupid hard???!!!!

Well, a birthday gift is a good idea, but you have to mean it for the child. Not just an opportunity to get in touch with her. You do not sound like a mean, and malicious person who would do that. However, it is an easy kind of expectation to have since you are really missing her. Not the child, as much. So, in short, I would say that is a good idea, but just remind yourself. It has nothing to do with her. I hope you get what I'm saying. I don't think you would put the child between you two, but when someone is in an emotional state, things like that can happen when you don't mean them to.

I've been dating this guy for 15 months. The first 11 were not good. I was in a bad place because I had just got out of a long term relationship. He was a commitment phobe. In his 30's, never been in love, ADAMENT he loves his space. Since I had somehow forgotten to speak up for myself, he managed to walk all over me. I finally had enough, and said "get lost". It sucked because I still cared for him. I cried. A lot. Then something happened, he came back to me after a month (3 of those weeks I implemented the no contact rule) and said he realizes he was a jerk. Poured his heart out to me about how he needed to change things and I had every right to be angry. I agreed. Told him I don't hate him, and appreciated the heartfelt apology, and thanks. He said he wanted to try and be friends. Hang out on neutral ground. I told him I would reluctantly try it. I did. It failed. I can't be friends with someone I want more out of, knowing all the while I'll NEVER get it. So, on the second outting, I made it clear this was NOT going to work. I tried. Thanks for making the effort, but I have to move on. After a long, heart felt, apology coupled with some slight begging, he said I deserved a man who made me feel like I mattered and he wanted to try and be that man. I reluctantly said, I'll try. I was clear, my trust was blown, so he wasn't in a good position, but that I did care for him and that was all he had on his side. Believe it or not, things were going well for the following 2 mos. But we were never getting to the love thing. You can just tell when that doesn't feel like it's ever going to happen. But, given everything, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and figured, our biggest problem has been communication, so I'll bring it up. I did. The convo went well. He pretty much said, "yes, this seems slow. But the pace seems to be ours and that's ok" Great Answer! He waited a few min, then said "Just so you know. You've always said you never want kids. I've said that too, but I'm deciding that in the next 2 years I want to have kids". But he added something about the fact that two people don't need to stay together for the kids, and that people can raise children on their own. It was like a train wreck. I would have preferred a kick to the chest. I'm glad he decided to address this with me, but now I'm left with the ultimatum "Stay with him, and have kids in a loveless relationship. Or Spin my wheels until he, or I finds something better to come along" Great! I've posted a couple of things abou this guy and this situation. I really have never posted the whole story. I'm still processing slowly. My heart broke in someways, in others, given our past, I'm just tired and worn out. I've tried to understand his possible motives: 1) He wants to scare me away 2) He has feelings, but doesn't want to get them stepped on so he trying to understand to what level of commitment I'm willing to get involved with. 3) He's just that selfish, that he is fixated on his biological clock and could give a damn about the innocent bystander who will carry his child. 4) He just wanted to get that on the table, but didn't think how horrible off the timing was. I guess I'm not just asking for an answer, but a miracle. Someone one with a crystal ball to come and tell me if it's worth it. If he's the one. If I'm really an idot and should see the answer.

Way to go! I have always been clear with my ex's that "being friends" is crap. After time, things could turn out that way. That is fine. No one is out to hurt anyone, but seriously, just like you said...you need (and deserve) time to get over it. I've also always said that being friends is not really possible. If it were, then you were never really in a relationship with someone who cares. If they cared, then they wouldn't want to just be your friend.

I'm in a relationship with a guy that puts me in the same positon. It's hard to keep your sanity when you feel like your back is against the wall. I'm struggling with it myself, so it's hard to give you advice. All I can say that I'm realizing is that communication is the key. I realize I need to talk my way out of this with that person. I don't have solid hopes that will produce any specific outcome, other than I will know what I need to know so I can make a decision for me. So talk. And good luck. I'm there with ya.

Hello! I really just thought this was not a big deal, but figured I would run it by a panel of experts to see what other people have experienced. This feeds off of an earlier posting: "Overcooked Relationship". I simply asked my boyfriend of 15 months, how he felt about the relationship, any comments, concerns, etc. Mentioned that it seems odd we are moving so slow in the "I love you" department, and what are his thoughts on this. His response...which shocked the heck out of me...was...well, "things are fine. I think this is just our own pace. However, I want you to know that I'm really starting to realize I want to have kids in the next couple of years." After I quit reeling and my head quit spinnining, I simply pointed out that I just want to fall in love and could we take a few steps back and talk about that. I've always said "I NEVER want children.", so I'm glad my bf decided to tackle this topic because he has a right to know if I'm compatible in this regard. However, I really have meant through out the years, "I NEVER want to have children with a man I'm not in love with." (If it can be controlled.) So, this is a bit of a crux. My bf and I have not made it to the love department, but we're chatting about kids. I won't be pressured into anything, but I can't get all of this off my mind. I feel a little bit pigeon-holed. Continue dating = child bearing or else we're just spinning our wheels. What a weird situation. Anyone else been here?

I overlooked the "severely depressed" comment. I can offer words of wisdom here. I grew up with 2 parents who were severely depressed. They were diagnosed back in the 80s when it wasn't really PC to admit to it yet. I raised me and my sister because they were perpetually stoned. They were on prozak when it was being tested, among MANY other doctor perscribed things. Of course, growing up thinking this was the norm, lead me to be serverely depressed, self destructive, and evenentually suicidal. So, having provided enough life history to give my words credibility, I know this: Depressed = destructive. Someone severely depressed does need help, but by professionals and only after they, themselves have acknowledged it. You have not stated you are a professional. I understand you want to help, but this is not the way. To provide further credibility: My father has recovered. I will NOT speak to my mother because I choose healthy positive environments now for my own sanity and mental health. She nearly drove me into the ground with her nonsense behavior. So, I know how hard it is to make these decisions about those you love. No one here is attacking you. You're doing what feels right. Some of us are pointing out that from similiar experiences, what feels right can be very wrong. Again, Good luck!

I don't know how to tell you to get this man back. He doesn't really sound like he's looking to come back. I wouldn't recommend putting your daughter in the middle of it. From what you said, I got the distinct impression that you believe he wants to be a daddy to your little girl when nothing about the story sounds that way. I know that's harsh, but as I read through everything that really jumped out at me. I read the thing about him needing a "strong woman". That's great, but don't you also need a strong man? I mean that stuff has to be give and take. I've found that out the hard way. Niether you, nor he, can be strong everyday. I must admit, I don't know what you are looking for from this post. I sincerely hope you find it though. Good luck!

Well, I got each of my high school boyfriends sliver ID bracelets. They weren't really expensive, and their names were engraved on the front, with some little saying on the back. All my boyfriends loved them. (fortunately my boyfriends didn't know eachother)

You ask her. Or she just tells you. Good luck!

Well, first of all I want to say I'm sorry and my heart goes out to you. I don't want to sound like I'm just being down on this girl, but from what I can tell the is pretty used to high drama situations. She came from an abusive relationship that started when she, herself was just a baby, she's going to school and trying to be a mommy. All at once. Take a step back and look at your own needs for a moment. You sound like a great person who always looks for the best in people. However you need to realize that this girl is not giving you the credit you deserve. Furthermore, she hasn't really recovered from her own past. That is clear as day. She is imposing her crazy drama onto you now. She doesn't even seem to realize it. Chaos is bad, but that's apparently all she knows. My advice is to keep your distance from all of this drama. I suspect she will realize what a great person you are and how she screwed up her side of things. If she doesn't, then she was never the one for you, and you are lucky she has moved on. Don't sit around waiting for her. Get out there and meet people. That doesn't mean dating or love, but meet people, enjoy life and look for all the new experiences you can find. If she comes back, you will have grown as a person, if she doesn't, you will have grown as a person. Get my point? You were being pressured into the marriage and house thing. You did do the write thing by taking your time. That was a very smart move. There is no need to second guess yourself. If you want to be the father and provider you envision, then managing your funds was also the exactly right decision. Unfortunately, she was so focused on the outcome, she couldn't see this. I hope you get my point. You sound like a good person. She sounds like a misguided soul, but she needs to fix herself. You can't fix her. You can however keep growing as a person. If you keep doing that you can always count on life bringing more wonderful moments in your future. The emotion part sucks, but remind yourself, that you have done everything just right. Good for you! Hang in there.

1. If he gave you a reason to be worried, then you're doing the right thing. Don't second guess yourself because now, you aren't just taking care of you. You're taking care you your unborn child. 2. There is no official order of events and prerequisites to reproduction. It happens when it is meant to. You deal with it the best you can (whether by yourself or with someone) and you just accept things as you get them. 3. Women raise babies by themselves all the time. AND have been doing it for thousands of years. If that's the route you choose, then you need to look at it as you are joining a sacred and amazing sisterhood. You can be one of those strong women too. DON'T look at it as a disgrace. Raising a child is not "disgraseful". 4. Be upfront with the father. You did what you did to take care of his AND your child. Don't apologize for that. As you talk with him, be strong and stand your ground that you will make decisions as you see fit. Tell him he needs to reason and compromise with you if things are going to work. Hope all of this helps. I know it feels easier said than done, but it can be done.

Don't worry. There are no rules. Nobody ever gets relationships, especially when they go south. People throw around the word "rule" becaue that can help them rationalize things better. I'll admit that I've even done it. However, at the end of the day. There are no rules. All is fair in love and war.