Going in Circles

[itsallgrand]

I would say you are correct, Dougie, in perceiving that many women are turned off by so much vulgarity.

There are exceptions, but those whom come to mind who are the exceptions, tend to be quite crude themselves. Maybe you are alright with that?

And when I think of these women who are with vulgar men, I'll be honest, the men usually are solid earners. Work horses who provide.

[browneyedgirl36]

It's probably a sickness I have, but damn, that's what 35 years of no "real sex" would do to someone! Haha!

 

Annnnnnddddd...I think we may have hit on what a big part of your problem is. I don't know ONE woman who is OK with "making anything dirty to change the conversation."

 

Since none of us on here knows you in real life, I was kind of wondering how you come across in conversation. A little goofy/jokey is fine. Over-the-top goofy is going to put a lot of women off. An occasional innuendo may be OK with some women, but if you make "jokes" like the one you referenced in a previous post (the one in response to a conversation about airplanes), and you do that a lot? Ugh... A LOT of women are going to be put off by that. (I understand that the joke you mentioned above was an example, perhaps not something you've actually said in conversation, but if you frequently say stuff similar to that in conversation with women you've just met, well, that's going to be a turnoff in most cases).

 

I like a guy with a sense of humor. In fact, it's at the top of my list of things I look for in a guy, along with intelligence. I think a lot of women appreciate a guy with a sense of humor. The thing is, there's funny/witty (and even a bit goofy at times) and then there's the sort of sophomoric, frat-boy humor practiced by 20-year-old college guys, and honestly, coming from anyone other than 20-year-old college guys, it gets old REALLY quickly. Coming from someone your age, it can come across as very immature. I'd be put off by repeated sexual jokes, especially if the original conversation had NOTHING to do with sex whatsoever and the references were more than just innuendo but were crude/vulgar, etc.

 

I honestly don't think it's your looks; I've seen pictures of you, and I don't think that's it. I wonder, if perhaps, a sense of desperation comes through in your conversations with women -- that it appears you're trying way too hard with all the crude jokes and goofiness. I don't know. I wish we could observe you in conversation with a woman or several women to get a better sense of things.

[Doc Blaze]

No, maybe sexual is the wrong term. If someone is talking about airplanes I could suggest "yeah, the speed it goes into the air is about the speed of my semen baby!" Shoots faster than a rocket 😜

 

you say this kind of stuff out loud to people?

[Capricorn3]

I think dirty constantly. Now, I don't just do it uncontrollably. I make anything dirty if I want to change the conversation. Like its the only topic I honestly want to talk about. It's like I get off on it

And then you wonder why women shy away from you? Being rude/crude and dirty talk is okay ... up to a point, but it seems you don't know where to draw the line. You have no filter, no boundaries when it comes to being vulgar. While you think it's all great humor and hilarious, it makes others head for the hills. This is a problem and it wouldn't surprise me if this is one of the biggest reasons for your general failure with women.

[Dougie_D]

you say this kind of stuff out loud to people?

 

That example is a little over the top, but it wasn't hard for me to connect something non sexual to something sexual within seconds.

 

That's how my brain works. It's like how I learn.. It has to be dirty somehow. I don't know. I think about sex A LOT in my head,

[Dougie_D]

And then you wonder why women shy away from you? Being rude/crude and dirty talk is okay ... up to a point, but it seems you don't know where to draw the line. You have no filter, no boundaries when it comes to being vulgar. While you think it's all great humor and hilarious, it makes others head for the hills. This is a problem and it wouldn't surprise me if this is one of the biggest reasons for your general failure with women.

 

Are you saying I need to change my self esteem?

[Dougie_D]

Also, I NEVER act this way if I believe I have a chance with women. Being disgusting, perverted is my defense mechanism when I get rejected.

Once I get rejected, I could care less how they view me then.

I think what I forget is that people talk behind my back and assume that I would act like that with a new woman. Basically, women spread rumors about me how crude and desperate I might be.

[Dougie_D]

And then you wonder why women shy away from you? Being rude/crude and dirty talk is okay ... up to a point, but it seems you don't know where to draw the line. You have no filter, no boundaries when it comes to being vulgar. While you think it's all great humor and hilarious, it makes others head for the hills. This is a problem and it wouldn't surprise me if this is one of the biggest reasons for your general failure with women.

 

Women take my crudeness too seiously. And honestly, I think it's because I'm not hot. My roommate admitted that a hotter guy can get away with things more than an unattractive guy because they view us differently already.

 

I think if I was "cuter" my crudeness wouldn't look that "disgusting" as much

 

I get it. If an overweight woman twerks, it might give a different sensation than a average weight woman twerking

[LoveSoDeep]

Browneyedgirl hit it right on the head, changing every conversation to something about sex which and being generally crude or vulgar is sophomoric. I haven't see this kind of humor since college and I don't care to. If a man made one such comment on the first date there would never be another date.....so it makes sense that this stops you form getting second dates. There might be a few who think maybe you're just nervous and give you a second try but if it keeps up they're outa there too. I don't know any 30 something year old women who would find your sense of humor attractive.

 

You kept saying you were silly and we all said that was fine, the truth is you're perverted (your own word) and immature BIG difference. The fact that you have been asking the same questions for so long and just now came clean with this information means you know it's a problem. You've been hiding it because you knew we'd say you have to change it and it doesn't sound like you want to change. You enjoy being a perv. If that's the case....if you really won't consider changing this one thing....none of us an help you.

[LoveSoDeep]

Women take my crudeness too seiously. And honestly, I think it's because I'm not hot. My roommate admitted that a hotter guy can get away with things more than an unattractive guy because they view us differently already.

 

I think if I was "cuter" my crudeness wouldn't look that "disgusting" as much

 

I get it. If an overweight woman twerks, it might give a different sensation than a average weight woman twerking

 

Dougie. Women are bombarded constantly by men who only want sex. Most of them want much more than sex and feel like they are being looked at as nothing more than "sex objects" by a lot of men. It's not a fun place to be. It has nothing to do with how cute you are. If you are as you said in your next post using it as a defense once you are rejected....that's even worse. Women reject you and you turn vulgar...if that were me I would be worried you were going to rape me - I'm dead serious. If I rejected a guy and he came back with an angry, vulgar attitude I'd be afraid for my own safety.

[notalady]

I have a dirty mind and often make connections to something dirty automatically if it sounds remotely so. I fully embrace this part of my humour but I don't go around showing everyone that side of me, only close friend whom I've known for years and I know they like or at least don't mind it, or someone I've been in a relationship with for quite a while during which they had gotten to know different facets of me quite well. All of this also prefaced by, when the ocassion and time is right, not just any time.

 

I also know a number of guys who can make dirty jokes very subtle and not crude or rude, so that most people (even women) would still find it funny. Doesn't sound like that's you.

 

If you can't distinguish when and to whom it is or isn't appropriate to express your "dirty mind", and act accordingly, then I can only say you are being socially inept.

 

Also, yes everyone talk. Only behaving nicely and politely when you want something from someone then do a 360 and behave poorly when you no longer want (or know you can't get) that something, is two-faced and of poor character, it should come as no surprise if women warn off other women about the way you behave when you think you don't have a chance (not a true gentleman).

[Dougie_D]

Browneyedgirl hit it right on the head, changing every conversation to something about sex which and being generally crude or vulgar is sophomoric. I haven't see this kind of humor since college and I don't care to. If a man made one such comment on the first date there would never be another date.....so it makes sense that this stops you form getting second dates. There might be a few who think maybe you're just nervous and give you a second try but if it keeps up they're outa there too. I don't know any 30 something year old women who would find your sense of humor attractive.

 

You kept saying you were silly and we all said that was fine, the truth is you're perverted (your own word) and immature BIG difference. The fact that you have been asking the same questions for so long and just now came clean with this information means you know it's a problem. You've been hiding it because you knew we'd say you have to change it and it doesn't sound like you want to change. You enjoy being a perv. If that's the case....if you really won't consider changing this one thing....none of us an help you.

 

I don't act like this on dates. Only at parties. Like what you are saying. College type crowds. My perverse level has dropped a lot.

 

You see. Even when I say I do something, even people on ENA think I do it all the time. I am just making a point that I've done those things before and it's possible that people just assume I'm like that 100percent

[Dougie_D]

I have a dirty mind and often make connections to something dirty automatically if it sounds remotely so. I fully embrace this part of my humour but I don't go around showing everyone that side of me, only close friend whom I've known for years and I know they like or at least don't mind it, or someone I've been in a relationship with for quite a while during which they had gotten to know different facets of me quite well. All of this also prefaced by, when the ocassion and time is right, not just any time.

 

I also know a number of guys who can make dirty jokes very subtle and not crude or rude, so that most people (even women) would still find it funny. Doesn't sound like that's you.

 

If you can't distinguish when and to whom it is or isn't appropriate to express your "dirty mind", and act accordingly, then I can only say you are being socially inept.

 

Also, yes everyone talk. Only behaving nicely and politely when you want something from someone then do a 360 and behave poorly when you no longer want (or know you can't get) that something, is two-faced and of poor character, it should come as no surprise if women warn off other women about the way you behave when you think you don't have a chance (not a true gentleman).

 

This is more like me. I think my dirty jokes might be a little over the top because I hump objects or do hand motions, or hilarious nasty faces.

 

I don't do the jokes to a woman to her face. It's mostly a text about 3 months later that is me trying get them to have sex with me after I text them I'm a virgin.

 

I tend to over exaggerate things in general. So I might not be as dirty as I think I am in my head anyways.

[Dougie_D]

I need better reasons for women not to be attracted to me than for me to think its my looks.

I probably tend to over exaggerate my personality traits to convince myself that they are the problem.

Then I back out, realizing I'm really not doing exactly that in every situation possible.

But I'm sure, somehow my actions made a negative impact.

My fear is that I could have a flawless personality and I still will never be attractive.

Plus, I ramble a lot.

[boltnrun]

"I think dirty constantly. Now, I don't just do it uncontrollably. I make anything dirty if I want to change the conversation. Like its the only topic I honestly want to talk about. It's like I get off on it"

 

"It's probably a sickness I have, but damn, that's what 35 years of no "real sex" would do to "

 

"You see. Even when I say I do something, even people on ENA think I do it all the time. I am just making a point that I've done those things before and it's possible that people just assume I'm like that 100percent"

 

You're contradicting yourself.

[IAmFCA]

I need better reasons for women not to be attracted to me than for me to think its my looks.

I probably tend to over exaggerate my personality traits to convince myself that they are the problem.

Then I back out, realizing I'm really not doing exactly that in every situation possible.

But I'm sure, somehow my actions made a negative impact.

My fear is that I could have a flawless personality and I still will never be attractive.

Plus, I ramble a lot.

 

Use double entendres once or twice when nobody else does, and that's enough to creep out most. Granted, an opportunity exists every 5 minutes, say. Two is nothing compared to the possibility of hundreds of comments or more.

 

Still, it's enough.

[Dougie_D]

"I think dirty constantly. Now, I don't just do it uncontrollably. I make anything dirty if I want to change the conversation. Like its the only topic I honestly want to talk about. It's like I get off on it"

 

"It's probably a sickness I have, but damn, that's what 35 years of no "real sex" would do to "

 

"You see. Even when I say I do something, even people on ENA think I do it all the time. I am just making a point that I've done those things before and it's possible that people just assume I'm like that 100percent"

 

You're contradicting yourself.

 

Yeah, I contradict myself a lot. It's so bad I can't even formulate an opinion on myself and stick with it! Haha!

[tiredofvampires]

I probably tend to over exaggerate my personality traits to convince myself that they are the problem.

 

I'm going to mirror back to you a number of traits you have acknowledged you have, as well as demonstrated in your videos and posts -- not just in the PAST, but CURRENTLY:

 

lazy

unambitious

unmotivated

vulgar and desire-to-shock humor

immature sense of humor

contrary (if people say push, you say pull)

not a whole lot of things most people are interested in -- obscure or limited hobbies

prone to thinking what's the use and giving up

slob

don't have a lot of opinions of your own

 

Forget what women want -- is this list attractive to YOU?

 

If you met a woman and these things dominated her personality, how would you feel about it?

 

We can keep putting the bandaids on. Do this, do that, your problem is you are too vulgar, you're problem is that you don't try hard enough, that you make excuses, you lack self-esteem, etc. The bandaids won't ever fix the real problem, which is that even if your personality was "the problem", you would absolutely TRY NOT TO FIX IT, because you have a vested interest in proving to the world that you have a gross enough personality to take on the best of them.

 

Consciously, you want a woman. Unconsciously, that is the last thing you intend to get, because it's much more important to ask the world to love you even if you decide to tell it to go shove every single one of its "requirements" up its collective ass.

 

You are not the sweet goofy guy who just never got a chance. You are actually quite aggressively acting out a drama. Underneath all this is an aggressive need to get back at the world, to provoke it and challenge it: LOVE ME LOVE ME LOVE ME LOVE ME EVEN IF I AM AN UGLY, SLOVENLY, SOCIALLY INEPT PERSON. You are the way you are because you have certain personality traits, but you jack them up for effect in order to shoot your foot, as an act of passive aggressiveness toward the world at large. But you then try to cover that up to yourself and everyone else by playing it off as just your brand of "fun" or "just who you are".

 

You're trying to prove a point to the world, Dougie. And that point is far more important to you than getting a woman, though you will protest that. It's more important to your inner psyche to keep asking the world for this kind of affirmation than to get a woman. That is your priority list. "First, let me be me no matter how gross that is" and then let's see who's gonna stick around, and pass my test. Actually, the most important part of your mind tells you every day to stay right in place, because the more time goes by being as you are, the more the storyline gets to feel safely predictable to you. "Now I'm 25, it's too late, now I'm 30, it's too late, now I'm 35, now I'm 40..." WHY BOTHER?? SEE, I'M RIGHT, I have been lazy, crude, immature, etc. etc. and no one EVER stepped up to love me. SEE??? SEE? I told the world to go shove its standards, and much as I figured, it would not accept me, so now I am living proof that the world had the final say, not me. If I can prove that I never had a chance in hell, then I'm off the hook. Since I don't want it to be "my fault", I'll just be as gross as possible and ensure that the world rejects me.

 

So you can keep testing the world this twisted psychological way, or you can go to therapy to stop playing this game. You can stay arrested in development or act on a desire to dislodge yourself from that state, and that's a choice to heal, not a personality trait.

 

I don't think your problem is self-esteem. I know of lots of people who have had awful self-esteem and they've gotten lots of sex, even relationships (though they weren't healthy ones). Your problem is that you want to tell the world (which includes ENA, btw) to go %^#$#^% itself in the ass, and hope that by magic, in defiance of natural laws, something good might come out of that.

 

I don't think you'll take that advice (therapy) because you've dug yourself such a deep hole of self-justification and lack of honesty with yourself, you're ready to bury yourself in it.

[IAmFCA]

Consciously, you want a woman. Unconsciously, that is the last thing you intend to get, because it's much more important to ask the world to love you even if you decide to tell it to go shove every single one of its "requirements" up its collective ass.

 

Brilliant, TOV.

 

Dougie, there is a difference between being loved and being liked. People may love you, and as a show of that love, they give you plenty of space. Your manner is a way off telling people to keep their distance - so they do.

 

Being liked is different entirely. Nobody gets to be liked without being likable.

 

If you want to be liked, behave and think in ways that are likable to you. BE to others the sort of friend you'd like for yourself.

 

If you choose not to make that effort, then that's fine. People may love you, and you may neverknow, because you want thrm to keep a certain distance from you.

 

You are choosing to behave in ways that are unlikable. This is your choice, and you are very good at it. Therefore, you have achieved the desired effect; people don't like you, women included.

 

It's a choice.

[Dougie_D]

Brilliant, TOV.

 

Dougie, there is a difference between being loved and being liked. People may love you, and as a show of that love, they give you plenty of space. Your manner is a way off telling people to keep their distance - so they do.

 

Being liked is different entirely. Nobody gets to be liked without being likable.

 

If you want to be liked, behave and think in ways that are likable to you. BE to others the sort of friend you'd like for yourself.

 

If you choose not to make that effort, then that's fine. People may love you, and you may neverknow, because you want thrm to keep a certain distance from you.

 

You are choosing to behave in ways that are unlikable. This is your choice, and you are very good at it. Therefore, you have achieved the desired effect; people don't like you, women included.

 

It's a choice.

 

 

I could care less about being loved or liked. I want to be DESIRED. I want that feeling SO bad. I want to go down the street and having women stare at me, lusting over my every moves.

 

I can't understand why that doesn't happen. Yeah, maybe my personality might screw it up.. but if I don't say a word, it's strictly on how I look. I want someone to show a picture of myself and have women say "damn he's a hottie".

 

Instead, I get "he's weird".

 

And for TOV:

 

1. I don't care if a women are those things unless I'm not attractive to her on a physical level. If I'm attractive to her, that girl sounds like a someone I'd actually date. Even though, I'm naturally those things, I would become the dominate figure. Like seeing her be lazy, would motivate me NOT to be lazy. etc... So it's weird to think about it, but I would actually be better off finding someone like that. I understand that 2 lazy people are too much alike. Does that make any sense. But I can't ever date someone who's more career driven than me. It would be a jealousy thing. I'd date someone who is less driven so I would feel like the better half, and she'd look up to my "driven" success.

 

2. I don't take advice from therapy, because I don't trust therapists. It's a trust issue and money. I trust ENA people more than I trust therapists, because the only thing you guys get is my thoughts. Not money exchanged. Find me a free therapist.. and I'm there. or have someone pay for me. The point of therapy is to work out things on my own, with their guidance whenever I need it. That's a lot $$$ if I wanted to see them every week.

 

3. I hate the fact that people are naturally better than me. It really bothers me how a better looking person is treated better than me. They judge them less. I'd admit, that I'm attracted to who I'm attracted to. I'm just bitter because I look at my parent's and family and wonder why I never got the "good genes". I feel like I only got the recessive genes.

 

I HATE ACCEPTING THAT I LESS THAN AVERAGE or whatever you want to call it. It's messed up.

 

 

I'd bet women would feel more like me if make-up never existed. I challenge women to not wear make up for an entire month and then tell me how many dates they get.. They'll soon realize that the women who have "natural beauty" will win over men.

 

Men don't have "make-up" to make themselves more desirable or beautiful or appealing to women.

[Doc Blaze]

in one ear and out the other....

 

 

 

do you even really take in peoples comments?

 

 

you said you like ENA and trust them yet when someone gives you some good advice, you don't even try to see where they are coming from. You always have an excuse or try to deflect the issue off of yourself onto something else.

 

 

 

how well has self pity and blaming others done for you so far in life?

 

 

 

" I want someone to show a picture of myself and have women say "damn he's a hottie".

 

^^^ nobody has ever said this to me ever. I have a baby face..it sucks. im always called

cute but you know what ive deal with it...what else am I suppose to do.

[Batya33]

There are free or very inexpensive therapists - sometimes there are support groups or you can even agree to participate in a study and receive free therapy/counseling or go to your local religious organization and ask to speak with someone confidentially, if you follow a particular religion.

 

Most women I know -especially those who want a long term relationship - would not take kindly to someone they do not know very well speaking in a sexual/perverted way to them - and when you know someone very well then you know their boundaries very well so there is a good sense of what can be joked about and what cannot.

 

I still remember 11 years ago when a young, very handsome man I met (we had mutual acquaintances -but first time I met him) decided it was appropriate to tell me -within 10 minutes of meeting- about the oral sex experience he'd had with a woman the night before. I held up my hand and said "please don't talk about that with me" and I changed the subject. 2 minutes later he started on that topic again so I walked away. I remember it because it was gross. He was lucky I stopped at just walking away.

 

It's not ok, it's not acceptable and in some cases the woman might fear for her safety -all you need is someone to escalate the situation and you could find yourself in deep trouble. So it's not just about having trouble finding a date - it can easily be seen as harassment or threatening.

[browneyedgirl36]

A few things:

 

1) A lot of us don't get called -- or even regarded as -- "a hottie" in our lifetimes. I've never been, as far as I know. Yes, it's nice to have people be attracted to us, but...physical attraction is entirely superficial, and it fades with time, and one day (I hope) you'll learn that being genuinely cared for, respected, and loved is more important than being regarded as "hot." So, you don't care about being liked or loved? What's the point then? There are a LOT of "hot" people out there who are totally miserable because people only care about them because of their looks. Sad.

 

2) When you spend a lot of time comparing yourself to others, you will inevitably find yourself depressed and bitter. There are a gazillion women out there who are prettier than me, who have more money than I do, more lucrative careers, who are getting to travel the world and do all the things I wish I could do (and would, if I had the money and time to do so). I could sit around and be endlessly bitter about how life treats them better than me, but I realize that doing that just would just be a way of giving myself an excuse to be stagnant and not do anything to improve my life.

 

3) You want free therapy? Really? You expect a therapist, a professional who has spent years getting educated and trained in his or her field to work for free just because you can't be bothered to pay? So, do you expect the servers in a restaurant, the auto mechanic, teachers, and firefighters to work for free too? Honestly, this boggles my mind. Again, a symptom of you being passive and choosing to remain stagnant instead of being proactive.

 

Like I said before: It's not your looks. Yeah, your looks may not be such that women regard you as "hot," but really, I have seen very few men out and about in the world that I would refer to as "hot." I know a lot of VERY average looking guys -- and some that I actually consider unattractive -- who are in relationships and married. It may not even be the way you act, though some of the things you talk about on here -- ways that you behave, things you say, etc. -- are indicative of immaturity, and at your age, the class clown/dirty-mind guy is NOT attractive to most women; they won't take you seriously at all, at the very least. Your whole mindset is your problem, and until you change that, nothing will change for you. You've said enough about yourself on this site over the years that a lot of us have a pretty good read on patterns you exhibit -- patterns of apathy, lack of motivation, a sense of entitlement to things without having to work for them (i.e. like free therapy!) Until you address these things and work on changing them, things will never change for you. Part of changing these things is getting to the root of them -- why you think and behave the way you do. That's what a good therapist can do. I know you'll never acknowledge that, though, so I'm afraid you might be stuck forever.

 

In my opinion, you're focusing on ALL the wrong things. You want to be lusted after and regarded as "hot," but you don't seem to care one bit about being a better person, more mature person, a more positive, proactive person. Working toward these things, believe it or not, would make you more attractive to other people.

 

I hope for your sake you come to a point where you realize things don't just "happen" to you or for you. You have to make them happen.

[Fudgie]

The vast majority of people, both men and women, are not super desirable, walking down the street and turning heads, 10/10. That is a pipe dream for you. It is not realistic. I am not super spectacular looking either but that's fine because I have other things I'm interested and I have my positive traits (as well as negatives) and I do okay.

 

You can always improve your looks by eating right, taking care of your skin/face, getting enough exercise, getting enough sleep (this is SO important), and dressing to fit your body type well but the type of desire you're looking for (total strangers desiring you) is unrealistic for most people. All you can do is work with what you have while accepting some limits.

 

I have seen men who look a LOT worse than you who have success in relationships and even just casual relationships too. This is not about your looks.

[itsallgrand]

I grew up around some rather vulgar guys. Some of them were even my friends. I drifted off as we got older and the vulgarity didn't change.

I've seen some of them over the years, to hear how they are doing. They all are married or with serious partners.

 

But like I said, they are work horses. With intensely strong work ethics. They aren't great looking men. And they are very rough in social graces. But they attract a certain niche of women.

For all their roughness too, they are very devoted and respectful to their families.

 

My point is, no one quality or behaviour has so many women ruling you out.

 

There is so much free therapy and resources.