Going in Circles

[reinventmyself]

So the answer to my question is, yes.

 

Phew... Glad I married my husband.

I don't tend to typically agree with SP. . but I think his response if fair. Not saying I am on board with all of it but this last one falls along the line of fair.

And in actuality, it's generous coming from him

 

"So, while most men aren't asocial like me--they want some sort of relationship-"

[Mr_LFA]

1. He needs to stop calling himself "Dougie".

 

2. He needs to hold off on trying to get women to accept him on a social/relationship level, and start trying to get them to accept him on a sexual one. Sex comes before everything else.

Absolutely. Blue nailed it again, right on the head. Men are already on the back foot before they even get out of bed, so prioritising sex first is a good way (for men) to level out the playing field (imo). That way, if/when the woman starts 'dating' someone else/gets bored (which usually happens), then at least the man has gained something tangible out of the 'relationship', instead of it being lopsided.

 

I may be a bit of an outlier, but, on the whole, I think that I represent men very well. I absolutely believe that, deep down, most men are like me (if not quite as extreme). I've had many ENA men PM me and tell me that they agree with me, but are afraid to speak out. You're just used to interacting with men that want something from you, or from women in general, and are willing to censor themselves in order to get it.

Treat this as a 'public' PM, Blue. We're probably not going to make any female friends on here, but I'm OK with that.

 

Serious answer: that's my bad, I wasn't specific enough. In terms of beliefs, I think that most men are like me. They prioritize sex, they think that the modern dating game is rigged in favor of women, they think that certain double-standards are bad, etc. Now, in terms of my personality and wants/needs, I'm gloriously unique, of course. So, while most men aren't asocial like me--they want some sort of relationship--I believe that their overall views tend to line up with mine.

 

Sarcastic answer: read female-started ENA threads for a few days, and then you tell me.

As a man and another INTJ, I am like you. In regards to wanting a relationship, there have been times when I didn't, so I simply sought out FWB/NSA arrangements, and that usually got me back on the horse (so to speak).

[Batya33]

"That way, if/when the woman starts 'dating' someone else/gets bored (which usually happens), then at least the man has gained something tangible out of the 'relationship', instead of it being lopsided."

 

It might surprise you but I know and know of many men who wouldn't feel that way - either because they would not have had sex outside of a serious/exclusive relationship or regret being that intimate with someone who did not reciprocate their level of interest. Even having a strong sex drive does not mean that the person's values are consistent with enjoying casual sex or or believing that getting sex without a relationship is getting something of value.

[notalady]

"That way, if/when the woman starts 'dating' someone else/gets bored (which usually happens), then at least the man has gained something tangible out of the 'relationship', instead of it being lopsided."

 

It might surprise you but I know and know of many men who wouldn't feel that way - either because they would not have had sex outside of a serious/exclusive relationship or regret being that intimate with someone who did not reciprocate their level of interest. Even having a strong sex drive does not mean that the person's values are consistent with enjoying casual sex or or believing that getting sex without a relationship is getting something of value.

 

Yea same, I know many men (friends, ex's, current) like this, so I laugh when some men try to explain "men" like they represent an entire gender. Same goes for women of course.

[Mr_LFA]

It might surprise you but I know and know of many men who wouldn't feel that way - either because they would not have had sex outside of a serious/exclusive relationship or regret being that intimate with someone who did not reciprocate their level of interest. Even having a strong sex drive does not mean that the person's values are consistent with enjoying casual sex or or believing that getting sex without a relationship is getting something of value.

It does surprise me but I'm not falling for it (bet Blue doesn't either). These sorts of comments are designed to shame men into Not wanting what they really want and so women can attempt to maintain the status quo.

[Mr_LFA]

Yea same, I know many men (friends, ex's, current) like this, so I laugh when some men try to explain "men" like they represent an entire gender. Same goes for women of course.

Sounds like these "men" have been brainwashed by women.

[Seraphim]

So men who truly enjoy relationships with women are brainwashed?

[Batya33]

It does surprise me but I'm not falling for it (bet Blue doesn't either). These sorts of comments are designed to shame men into Not wanting what they really want and so women can attempt to maintain the status quo.

 

Well I certainly didn't mean it that way and I'm not sure how it ever can be interpreted that way. It's perfectly natural to want sex - no shame in that. Wanting sex doesn't mean choosing to have sex in every situation. I wouldn't have married a man who had many one night stands/casual sex partners because we wouldn't have had compatible values (and I would have had health concerns during our time dating) but I certainly wanted a man with a healthy sex drive. Humans want many things that are natural to want and make choices about when to act on urges/feelings -not just having to do with sex. Having multiple sex partners can as easily mean choosing to act on a healthy sex drive as it can mean choosing to avoid emotional intimacy by never getting too attached to a particular person/partner. Certainly not a one size fits all.

 

I also wouldn't have married a man who would dream of letting anyone brainwash him. Ick.

[Mr_LFA]

So men who truly enjoy relationships with women are brainwashed?

That's not what I said and twisted logic, to boot. Maybe someone else will answer your loaded question.

[Dougie_D]

I've been enjoying these stories about past relationships, etc.. But how can actually help me? what I'm trying to say is that they don't seem relevant to the "current datting game". I need more stories on current experiences. Like if you are currently single, how did you get your last date? Online? Meet up? School? Etc... Also, how do your current single friends finds dates. I need more examples of those stories.

 

By the way, I don't call myself "Dougie". I go by Doug in the real world.

 

Let's get real. SEX is the ultimate goal. But to get SEX, I need to get dates. So what I really need to work on, is how I can boost my average of 2 dates a year. I think just dating and being more 1 on 1 with women is healthy for me. I wasn't ng, and my overall confidence was improving.

 

So in a nutshell. I just need more current examples of how men and women date. It seems like it's all about Tinder, Bumble (which I hate), OkC, Hinge, Happn, etc...

 

Surely some people in ENA have single friends the same age as me.

[Mr_LFA]

Wanting sex doesn't mean choosing to have sex in every situation.

Only a woman would say something like this, as the situations for women far far outweigh the situations for a comparable man. Any attractive woman can walk into any bar in the world and get sex (usually within a few mins), unfortunately, for men, they do not have this luxury (unless he's really rich/famous).

[Seraphim]

Haha I recognize MGTOW when I see it. I have seen too much to be hustled.

[Mr_LFA]

 

Let's get real. SEX is the ultimate goal. But to get SEX, I need to get dates. So what I really need to work on, is how I can boost my average of 2 dates a year. I think just dating and being more 1 on 1 with women is healthy for me. I wasn't ng, and my overall confidence was improving.

Dougie, a date for a man is just a bs precursor to sex, that women probably invented a long time ago. However, it IS possible to get sex without date(s), I do not recommend it to the inexperienced (unless the stars have aligned that night) so Do the dating thing, but don't ever lose focus on the obtaining the goal (sex).

[Mr_LFA]

Haha I recognize MGTOW when I see it. I have seen too much to be hustled.

I actually had to google that acronym. But I'm not surprised, considering how long men have been shafted by women. The Revolution is palpable.

[Blue Spiral]

Absolutely. Blue nailed it again, right on the head.

 

Thank you, I really appreciate that.

 

By the way, I don't call myself "Dougie". I go by Doug in the real world.

 

That's good.

 

Let's get real. SEX is the ultimate goal. But to get SEX, I need to get dates.

 

Lots of guys get sex without dating. I'm one of 'em. Besides, dating is increasingly passe. Here's what you need to do:

 

1. Find women online.

 

2. Ask these women if they want to HANG OUT. Not "date". This gets you out from under any financial pressure, and it will weed out the women that won't have sex with you. This will scare off 90% of women, but it'll be a signal to the remaining willing-to-hook-up 10%.

 

3. Hang out with them and, if it goes well, have sex with them.

 

I've been following this pattern since '98. I find them online, we chat, and I eventually say "Want to hang out/want to hook up?" There's nothing to it. If even a socially-inept person like me can do it, well...

[HeartGoesOn]

Nothing like dehumanizing women, Blue...

[Seraphim]

Nothing like dehumanizing women, Blue...

 

That's all these 3 want to do, treat women like blow up dolls. Gross really.

[notalady]

I've been enjoying these stories about past relationships, etc.. But how can actually help me? what I'm trying to say is that they don't seem relevant to the "current datting game". I need more stories on current experiences. Like if you are currently single, how did you get your last date? Online? Meet up? School? Etc... Also, how do your current single friends finds dates. I need more examples of those stories.

 

By the way, I don't call myself "Dougie". I go by Doug in the real world.

 

Let's get real. SEX is the ultimate goal. But to get SEX, I need to get dates. So what I really need to work on, is how I can boost my average of 2 dates a year. I think just dating and being more 1 on 1 with women is healthy for me. I wasn't ng, and my overall confidence was improving.

 

So in a nutshell. I just need more current examples of how men and women date. It seems like it's all about Tinder, Bumble (which I hate), OkC, Hinge, Happn, etc...

 

Surely some people in ENA have single friends the same age as me.

 

Dougie, your target market is women who are open to casual sex. It's a waste of time for you to be dating women and be assessed by them as a potential date when all you want is sex. It's much simpler if you either pay for prostitutes at a place where it is legal (I know you've rejected this option too), or up your game in sexual skills so as to give yourself an edge.

 

I'll go back to my usual example of "nice guy" friend who opened up his social life and ended up having relationships. He's at best average looking and overweight, but managed to have quite a few FWB and casual encounters from online. He flirted with the women and was quite transparent with what he wanted, and sold himself as being great at sex, knowing how to satisfy women etc. And women who were open to casual sex totally went for it. His first time was also with a propstitute.

 

The point is Dougie, you need a selling point, have something to offer, that's just basic sales and marketing ideas. Currently, you don't have something to offer to get what you want.

[Mr_LFA]

Thank you, I really appreciate that.

You're most welcome.

 

 

Lots of guys get sex without dating. I'm one of 'em. Besides, dating is increasingly passe. Here's what you need to do:

 

1. Find women online.

 

2. Ask these women if they want to HANG OUT. Not "date". This gets you out from under any financial pressure, and it will weed out the women that won't have sex with you. This will scare off 90% of women, but it'll be a signal to the remaining willing-to-hook-up 10%.

 

3. Hang out with them and, if it goes well, have sex with them.

 

I've been following this pattern since '98. I find them online, we chat, and I eventually say "Want to hang out/want to hook up?" There's nothing to it. If even a socially-inept person like me can do it, well...

Words of Wisdom. Finally some Real World Modern Practical Advice!

[Dougie_D]

Thank you, I really appreciate that.

 

 

 

That's good.

 

 

 

Lots of guys get sex without dating. I'm one of 'em. Besides, dating is increasingly passe. Here's what you need to do:

 

1. Find women online.

 

2. Ask these women if they want to HANG OUT. Not "date". This gets you out from under any financial pressure, and it will weed out the women that won't have sex with you. This will scare off 90% of women, but it'll be a signal to the remaining willing-to-hook-up 10%.

 

3. Hang out with them and, if it goes well, have sex with them.

 

I've been following this pattern since '98. I find them online, we chat, and I eventually say "Want to hang out/want to hook up?" There's nothing to it. If even a socially-inept person like me can do it, well...

 

Number 1 and 3 is too vague. I first need to engage in conversation with women online. That's not easy for me. Most never reply back.

 

Plus, once I get to 3, you say "if it goes well, have sex with them".. What does that mean? I've never thought any of my previous "hangouts" with women I know were considered "bad" times.

[notalady]

That's all these 3 want to do, treat women like blow up dolls. Gross really.

 

I think it's unfair to make statements like these in Dougie's journal, he (and the other two) has the freedom to only want one thing with women, it's certainly not unusual that men like this exist, and women have the freedom to not engage with and to avoid men like this if that's not for them. At the same time, there are women that find guys like this meet their temporary need and are exactly what they are looking for at the time. I think it's a simple matter of freedom of choice and mutual benefit (rather than genuine relationship or emotional connection or trust).

[Seraphim]

I think it's unfair to make statements like these in Dougie's journal, he (and the other two) has the freedom to only want one thing with women, it's certainly not unusual that men like this exist, and women have the freedom to not engage with and to avoid men like this if that's not for them. At the same time, there are women that find guys like this meet their temporary need and are exactly what they are looking for at the time. I think it's a simple matter of freedom of choice.

As long as people are ok with dehumanizing women. I dunno... Shrug

[Mr_LFA]

It's much simpler if you either pay for prostitutes at a place where it is legal (I know you've rejected this option too), or up your game in sexual skills so as to give yourself an edge.

 

His first time was also with a propstitute.

This is terrible advice, and I do Not recommend paying for it (probably the subconscious reason why women recommended he NEEDS a full-time job), especially, if it's your first time for gods sake. This will make you lazy and complacent. You can get sex for (basically) free. Listen to Blue's advice.

[notalady]

As long as people are ok with dehumanizing women. I dunno... Shrug

 

I don't think anyone can dehumanise anyone if they don't allow themselves to be dehumanised.

[notalady]

This is terrible advice, and I do Not recommend paying for it (probably the subconscious reason why women recommended he NEEDS a full-time job), especially, if it's your first time for gods sake. This will make you lazy and complacent. You can get sex for (basically) free. Listen to Blue's advice.

 

Clearly that approached hasn't worked for Dougie if you read his response.