Going in Circles

[agent1607307371]

Dougie, you need to stop thinking that what you like in porn has any kind of twin in reality. Faces in porn are images. They can't see you. They can't respond to you. They are not with you.

 

The fact is, a lot of what people like when they masturbate or fantasise has very little do with their actual sex lives.

[IAmFCA]

Dougie, you need to stop thinking that what you like in porn has any kind of twin in reality. Faces in porn are images. They can't see you. They can't respond to you. They are not with you.

 

The fact is, a lot of what people like when they masturbate or fantasise has very little do with their actual sex lives.

 

Even what is in porn isn't real. Not just make up but also numerous takes, film looped so that scenes seem to go for longer than in real life, people who have made a career out of their ability and desire to become technically proficient at certain skills, and who maintain and enhance their bodies for that purpose.

 

I know someone like this, Dougie. There is very little in common with reality, and it is very difficult to be in an intimate relationship with this person. Porn and real life have very little in common.

[Dougie_D]

Dougie, you need to stop thinking that what you like in porn has any kind of twin in reality. Faces in porn are images. They can't see you. They can't respond to you. They are not with you.

 

The fact is, a lot of what people like when they masturbate or fantasise has very little do with their actual sex lives.

 

I would treat a woman's oral skills the same as how a woman would treat man's kissing skills.

 

Yeah, but those type of girls attract me. Don't get me wrong. I'm EXTREMELY PICKY... but I know that I can't be like that, because those type of chicks wouldn't go for a type a guy like me. So I have to compromise.

 

Are you saying that women just want to do missionary style positions? If that's the case, that's extremely boring to me.

[Dougie_D]

Even what is in porn isn't real. Not just make up but also numerous takes, film looped so that scenes seem to go for longer than in real life, people who have made a career out of their ability and desire to become technically proficient at certain skills, and who maintain and enhance their bodies for that purpose.

 

I know someone like this, Dougie. There is very little in common with reality, and it is very difficult to be in an intimate relationship with this person. Porn and real life have very little in common.

 

I'm not saying I want to date a pornstar. But if they look the part and act the part, that's what I would prefer.

 

My main goal of dating a chick is to : get comfortable with kissing, get comfortable of having sex and other positions.

 

I'm already comfortable with getting naked in front of someone. That's definitely not a problem. I enjoy being naked in general.

 

I feel like I have to do these other tasks before I get my goals. I'm not looking to have kids and get married until I've reached a comfort zone of sexperiencing

[Batya33]

Why in the world would you read that into what Agent wrote - are you trying to find more excuses to avoid getting to the root of your issues with physical intimacy?

 

If you truly believe you would not enjoy kissing/touching/cuddling then that is the issue you should tackle and resolve before you attempt to date.

 

It's not about "skills" - well some of it is on a basic level but the most important part in a romantic relationship is the emotions underlying the touching plus communication (whether talking about it/showing, etc) that is motivated to increase both partners' enjoyment/satisfaction.

 

If you're talking about hiring a prostitute I suppose these days you can request that the person has certain "skills" but that is a business transaction, not a relationship. Apples/oranges.

[Dougie_D]

Why in the world would you read that into what Agent wrote - are you trying to find more excuses to avoid getting to the root of your issues with physical intimacy?

 

If you truly believe you would not enjoy kissing/touching/cuddling then that is the issue you should tackle and resolve before you attempt to date.

 

It's not about "skills" - well some of it is on a basic level but the most important part in a romantic relationship is the emotions underlying the touching plus communication (whether talking about it/showing, etc) that is motivated to increase both partners' enjoyment/satisfaction.

 

If you're talking about hiring a prostitute I suppose these days you can request that the person has certain "skills" but that is a business transaction, not a relationship. Apples/oranges.

 

I'm not saying I would never enjoy kissing, touching, etc.. What makes me mad is that apparently there is no way to bypass it for a bit until I get comfortable with someone I would actually enjoy doing it with. I can't see myself kissing someone who I am not comfortable with. I can only see myself kissing someone and not feel weird about it until I really feel that connection. It takes A LOT for someone to connect and understand me, and it's vice versa.

[agent1607307371]

I would treat a woman's oral skills the same as how a woman would treat man's kissing skills.

 

Yeah, but those type of girls attract me. Don't get me wrong. I'm EXTREMELY PICKY... but I know that I can't be like that, because those type of chicks wouldn't go for a type a guy like me. So I have to compromise.

 

Are you saying that women just want to do missionary style positions? If that's the case, that's extremely boring to me.

 

No, what I'm saying is that sex doesn't look like porn. It's never as well lit, as well positioned and as well scripted. You're confusing reality with fantasy. Even porn actresses don't look like porn actresses when they take their make up off and go home for the day.

 

Here's the thing, if you're not comfortable touching someone's face, you won't be comfortable touching someone's genitals. If you can't kiss somoene's mouth, you're never going to manange to lick a vagina.

 

(And what are you going to judge like women judge men's oral skills?)

[tiredofvampires]

It takes A LOT for someone to connect and understand me, and it's vice versa.

 

And that is why I do not date the way a lot of people subscribe to, here on this forum and elsewhere, and according to many norms of dating sites. I don't have a "by this date, you will have to make a pass at me" rule. I don't have an agenda of what "base" we reach when. When I date, I'm pretty selective, and it's more like "hanging out" with someone who I'm just getting to know and care about than advancing to the next step in the line-up of steps. To me that feels horribly stressful, forced, artificial, and by some cookbook. It's not bad for some, but it's not for me.

 

It also takes a lot of trust and connection for me to feel like I'm ready to kiss someone, and I'm not a newbie. This is even though I am feeling attraction to them building before that moment. Then it happens spontaneously, without planning, when that "right moment" feels mutual. It just evolves, it's not being demanded by either party.

 

So that's how I start budding relationships, whether they progress or not.

 

It may be hard to find that in your average dating pool, but different women have different methods, so you need to find a woman who is interested enough in getting to know you, but cautious enough herself that she isn't trying to push for something right away.

 

If it's just sexual experience you want, and you go to Tinder and find a woman who wants some action, expect to find someone who is on that track. It's a different end-game.

 

So you have to decide where and how you want to go shopping, for what.

[Dougie_D]

No, what I'm saying is that sex doesn't look like porn. It's never as well lit, as well positioned and as well scripted. You're confusing reality with fantasy. Even porn actresses don't look like porn actresses when they take their make up off and go home for the day.

 

Here's the thing, if you're not comfortable touching someone's face, you won't be comfortable touching someone's genitals. If you can't kiss somoene's mouth, you're never going to manange to lick a vagina.

 

(And what are you going to judge like women judge men's oral skills?)

 

I've heard from numerous women that if the kissing is bad, they won't pursue or continue on with the next stage. If a girl can't give me oral right, I'll have the same thinking. She can be a horrible kisser because I wouldn't care.

 

I just think women put so much stock on a kiss. Let's be honest. I AM GOING TO BE BAD my first time. Has any woman ever continued with a guy where they thought the kissing was horrible?

[boltnrun]

So you expect to find a woman who is willing to "give you oral" before you decide if you want to continue seeing her?

 

Good luck with that.

[Batya33]

"Has any woman ever continued with a guy where they thought the kissing was horrible?"

 

Not horrible but "bad" yes - in rare cases. In those rare cases I knew there was chemistry and the kiss was bad for other reasons - I actually can think of only one and yes we did have good chemistry and later, great chemistry.

 

Typically the kissing was bad because of lack of chemistry so then no point in continuing.

[browneyedgirl36]

So you expect to find a woman who is willing to "give you oral" before you decide if you want to continue seeing her?

 

Good luck with that.

 

Oh good lord. So....you won't kiss her, you'll just go straight to the...errrr....other stuff?

 

Yeah, good luck. Sorry, but...you'll be hard pressed to find a woman who'll agree to that -- unless she's being paid to.

[Dougie_D]

So you expect to find a woman who is willing to "give you oral" before you decide if you want to continue seeing her?

 

Good luck with that.

 

I didn't say that. I meant if her oral skills can't get me off then it might cause a problem in continuing to be with her.

 

By then I've already established some type of comfort level with her

[IAmFCA]

I've heard from numerous women that if the kissing is bad, they won't pursue or continue on with the next stage. If a girl can't give me oral right, I'll have the same thinking. She can be a horrible kisser because I wouldn't care.

 

I just think women put so much stock on a kiss. Let's be honest. I AM GOING TO BE BAD my first time. Has any woman ever continued with a guy where they thought the kissing was horrible?

 

Yes.

 

Also, horrible kissing is usually a short term thing. Be up front, plainly honest, focus on the connection between you.

 

Two people kissing usually spend a time adjusting to one another anyhow. There is no ONE way, no right, wrong.

 

Instead of horrible, think, authentic.

[itsallgrand]

Have you ever had a professional massage Dougie? I mean by a massage therapist, nothing shady!

 

I found it very helpful in helping me get back in touch with my own body. And it can provide that human touch a lot of us crave while single. It's not the same thing or even close to a massage with a partner, but you might enjoy them!

[notalady]

Yes.

 

Also, horrible kissing is usually a short term thing. Be up front, plainly honest, focus on the connection between you.

 

Two people kissing usually spend a time adjusting to one another anyhow. There is no ONE way, no right, wrong.

 

Instead of horrible, think, authentic.

 

Yes, and I believe women are open to telling you what they like when it comes to kissing if you tell them you're not an experienced kisser. Better that than having them assuming that you are experienced, just bad, so it's now a habit / what you are used to and that can be very hard to change (in their minds).

 

I've had one bad kisser in particular where it felt like I was the Alien's movie and all I thought about the whole time was please be over, please be over! I told him twice what I preferred and it didn't stick, so game over. All other dates are just a matter of different kissing style, and you adjust to each other's preferences with some communication (the key).

 

I personally also used the kissing to assess if the guy will be good in bed, not necessarily how skilful they are, but how willing are they to listen to my preferences and work with me. If they are stuck in their own ways regardless of what I say, I have no interest in proceeding to find out if they are also bad in bed, I know they won't listen to what I prefer in bed anyway, and that's a deal breaker for me.

[Dougie_D]

Have you ever had a professional massage Dougie? I mean by a massage therapist, nothing shady!

 

I found it very helpful in helping me get back in touch with my own body. And it can provide that human touch a lot of us crave while single. It's not the same thing or even close to a massage with a partner, but you might enjoy them!

 

I've never had a professional do it. I've only had 7 massages my entire life and 2 came from my mom. 4 came from tour from band mates and only 1 was a girl, but that was a lot of convincing. It kind of reassured me that apparently I was too hideous to touch by a woman. I give my guy and girl "friends" massages all the time. On tour I would do like 3 a night because the dudes were sore. I have long and lengthy hands.

[Dougie_D]

Yes, and I believe women are open to telling you what they like when it comes to kissing if you tell them you're not an experienced kisser. Better that than having them assuming that you are experienced, just bad, so it's now a habit / what you are used to and that can be very hard to change (in their minds).

 

I've had one bad kisser in particular where it felt like I was the Alien's movie and all I thought about the whole time was please be over, please be over! I told him twice what I preferred and it didn't stick, so game over. All other dates are just a matter of different kissing style, and you adjust to each other's preferences with some communication (the key).

 

I personally also used the kissing to assess if the guy will be good in bed, not necessarily how skilful they are, but how willing are they to listen to my preferences and work with me. If they are stuck in their own ways regardless of what I say, I have no interest in proceeding to find out if they are also bad in bed, I know they won't listen to what I prefer in bed anyway, and that's a deal breaker for me.

 

Yeah, I wanted to tell the girl that I was an inexperienced kisser.. But that would be a red flag immediately right? I believe if I said that, she wouldn't have wanted pursue anything.

I'm in catch 22. I kiss badly she'll get rid of me. I tell her the truth, the same deal, but I wouldn't have gotten even that far in a kiss.

 

Has anyone told you they were inexperienced? And you still kissed them?

[tiredofvampires]

I meant if her oral skills can't get me off then it might cause a problem in continuing to be with her.

Dougie, if you think kissing is a technical feat, good thing you'll never have to wrap your head around (no pun intended) having to shove a bratwurst-like object repeatedly into the back of your throat where your gag reflex is located, where it cuts off 2/3 of your air supply, all the while making sure to pretend that you have no teeth, which forces your lips into a pucker with just the right amount of suction for not less than but often more than 15 full minutes (flexing muscles which you normally don't work out at the gym), cranking your jaw open as wide as possible, while your neck stiffens increasingly to keep up with push-ups that you MUST sustain in an unrelentingly monotonous and increasingly fast tempo for any of this to pay off, at the end of which globs of musty, bitter slime are ejected into your gullet and nasal cavities, at which point you have to gauge just the right rate of deceleration (which is highly variable from one specimen to the next).

 

I'd say by the time a woman is interested enough in you to date you, kiss you (even though it's awkward and maybe not great at first), get naked with you, and have sex with you, hoping to keep building on a connection, I'd say you might have to compromise on someone being a pro at the above, to have all the rest that you seem to want. AGAIN: this. is. not. porn. Some women are great at this, some are meh, some suck (more puns), some are more teachable than others, and in the end, if it's not flying colors, you might have to decide between that feat being ideal and having a life with someone.

 

Just the way she may have to compromise if you never get fabulous at kissing or going down on her, if the rest of the relationship is good.

[itsallgrand]

LOL TOV! I can only imagine what kind of erotica you could turn out, with descriptions like that. You could be rich!

[tiredofvampires]

I really think this is just so easy: hire an escort JUST to practice kissing. I don't know if all of them kiss their clients, some likely don't (because as I said before, that is associated with emotional territory). But find one who will. If I were in the business, I'd think heck, this is a pretty easy buck to make.

 

Just get it over with.

 

I would have suggested an older cougar that is marginally attractive enough and interested in the whole enchilada, with your youth working for you as part of her wishlist, and you telling her upfront that you're inexperienced which she might find part of the fun (teaching you). But I think the chances of being exposed to STD's, orally or genitally may be higher than with a high-priced escort.

[tiredofvampires]

LOL TOV! I can only imagine what kind of erotica you could turn out, with descriptions like that. You could be rich!

 

HAHAHA, thanks IAG, loving your fist bump!! Thanks! Seriously, I have considered it, for reals. I'm just not sure how I'd hide it from the folks in my "upstanding" life, a lot of whom would skin me alive or have me banished if it were ever discovered. Problems for another thread, methinks.

 

Also, I'd have to make that considerably more appealing sounding, lol. Major edits. lol

 

Btw, I really like your suggestion of the massage. I think Dougie should really take that on board.

[notalady]

LOL TOV! I can only imagine what kind of erotica you could turn out, with descriptions like that. You could be rich!

 

Totally, that was so well described haha...

[notalady]

Yeah, I wanted to tell the girl that I was an inexperienced kisser.. But that would be a red flag immediately right? I believe if I said that, she wouldn't have wanted pursue anything.

I'm in catch 22. I kiss badly she'll get rid of me. I tell her the truth, the same deal, but I wouldn't have gotten even that far in a kiss.

 

Has anyone told you they were inexperienced? And you still kissed them?

 

No one has told me that for kissing before, but current bf told me before sex that he hasn't had a gf for a while so a bit out of practice. I laughed and said I would practice with him he wasn't the best kisser the first few times, not unpleasant but not the greatest, so I told him my preference and showed him, and he's been doing awesomely ever since.

 

Instead of saying you're inexperienced, you can say you're a bit out of practice.

[Dougie_D]

Dougie, if you think kissing is a technical feat, good thing you'll never have to wrap your head around (no pun intended) having to shove a bratwurst-like object repeatedly into the back of your throat where your gag reflex is located, where it cuts off 2/3 of your air supply, all the while making sure to pretend that you have no teeth, which forces your lips into a pucker with just the right amount of suction for not less than but often more than 15 full minutes (flexing muscles which you normally don't work out at the gym), cranking your jaw open as wide as possible, while your neck stiffens increasingly to keep up with push-ups that you MUST sustain in an unrelentingly monotonous and increasingly fast tempo for any of this to pay off, at the end of which globs of musty, bitter slime are ejected into your gullet and nasal cavities, at which point you have to gauge just the right rate of deceleration (which is highly variable from one specimen to the next).

 

I'd say by the time a woman is interested enough in you to date you, kiss you (even though it's awkward and maybe not great at first), get naked with you, and have sex with you, hoping to keep building on a connection, I'd say you might have to compromise on someone being a pro at the above, to have all the rest that you seem to want. AGAIN: this. is. not. porn. Some women are great at this, some are meh, some suck (more puns), some are more teachable than others, and in the end, if it's not flying colors, you might have to decide between that feat being ideal and having a life with someone.

 

Just the way she may have to compromise if you never get fabulous at kissing or going down on her, if the rest of the relationship is good.

 

That's the same feeling I get about kissing. I have a small jaw and I get TMJ often. I'm not into someone else's salvia mixing with mine either... Too much saliva will scare me. I know for a fact I'll be bad and it might be painful for me for long periods of having my mouth open. Dentist office hurts me and I cry everytime. It feels like they are about to break my jaw.

 

I'll have to compromise on my first for sure. I honestly don't know how it would "feel" but just the idea of her doing to that turns me on. It's like a massive power trip or something.