Going in Circles

[Batya33]

How does no kissing translate to no chemistry? Maybe my fear of kissing isn't fear, it's just I have absolutely no desire of kissing?

 

Is kissing what validates "chemistry"? I can easily see myself in a relationship with no kissing at all. Just because you don't kiss doesn't mean you can't have sex.

 

I'm just trying to figure out why people put so much emphasis on kissing

 

I would never continue dating someone who said he never wanted to kiss/had no real desire to kiss me. To me kissing in a romantic relationship is as essential as breathing. Sometimes kissing can be far more intimate than sex - just emotionally -especially if the couple cannot have sex at that time (maybe because of logistics, or they are waiting to have sex,etc). I've ended dating relationships where I did not feel chemistry from kissing and being concerned about relationships where he didn't seem to want to kiss me intimately (this was all in early on situations, not once we were involved).

[IAmFCA]

There is a scientific underpinning to the way kissing feels compelling and intimate. If all else fails, rely on the science to explain it.

[Dougie_D]

There is a scientific underpinning to the way kissing feels compelling and intimate. If all else fails, rely on the science to explain it.

 

yeah, I get that it "feels good" I guess. But then again, I don't need kissing to get me off. I don't think people kiss a pillow while they are masterbating.

[Dougie_D]

I would never continue dating someone who said he never wanted to kiss/had no real desire to kiss me. To me kissing in a romantic relationship is as essential as breathing. Sometimes kissing can be far more intimate than sex - just emotionally -especially if the couple cannot have sex at that time (maybe because of logistics, or they are waiting to have sex,etc). I've ended dating relationships where I did not feel chemistry from kissing and being concerned about relationships where he didn't seem to want to kiss me intimately (this was all in early on situations, not once we were involved).

 

I look at kissing as an extra step that doesn't have to be there. Cars have automatic and stick shift. Kissing seems like stick shift. I'm an automatic guy. I don't care to "move the gears" if that makes any sense. I rarely see "kissing" in porn videos too.

[Dougie_D]

Plus, I rather have my penis in my partners mouth. Or her vagina in mine. Too me, those actions would turn me on more than just tongue swinging.

I did have a "stripper" try to put her tongue down my throat. It was weird to be honest because it was unexpected, so I backed off.

Maybe I just don't like the act of kissing??

[notalady]

Good god Dougie, all you talk about is sex, kissing is NOT all about sex, it's about showing affection and building intimacy within a relationship. If all you want is casual sex, maybe a woman may be ok with no kissing in that context. But good luck finding a woman who wants a serious relationship to date a man who doesn't want or like kissing.

[Dougie_D]

Good god Dougie, all you talk about is sex, kissing is NOT all about sex, it's about showing affection and building intimacy within a relationship. If all you want is casual sex, maybe a woman may be ok with no kissing in that context. But good luck finding a woman who wants a serious relationship to date a man who doesn't want or like kissing.

 

I believe you can be intimate and show affectionate to a partner in other ways than just by kissing. ( deep conversations, hugging, licking on other parts of body, etc...)

I'm fine with kissing if I feel like I want to, and not because my partner needs it. Even kissing a girl on the cheek makes me feel uncomfortable. Even when someone else does it. I don't kiss my family anyhow whatsoever. I think I might be disgusted by it, now that I'm thinking about it.

[notalady]

I believe you can be intimate and show affectionate to a partner in other ways than just by kissing. ( deep conversations, hugging, licking on other parts of body, etc...)

I'm fine with kissing if I feel like I want to, and not because my partner needs it. Even kissing a girl on the cheek makes me feel uncomfortable. Even when someone else does it. I don't kiss my family anyhow whatsoever. I think I might be disgusted by it, now that I'm thinking about it.

 

I don't kiss my family members either, or friends for that matter. Only someone I'm dating. Of course you are entitled to not kiss a woman you're dating if you don't feel like it and even if they want to. But like I said, you'd be hard pressed to find a woman that'd be ok with little to no kissing on a regular basis.

[browneyedgirl36]

I don't kiss my family members either, or friends for that matter. Only someone I'm dating. Of course you are entitled to not kiss a woman you're dating if you don't feel like it and even if they want to. But like I said, you'd be hard pressed to find a woman that'd be ok with little to no kissing on a regular basis.

 

Same here. I don't kiss anyone except my significant other. I can't even imagine NOT wanting to kiss him. Honestly, I'd never have sex with someone I didn't want to kiss. Maybe that's just me, but...

 

Dougie, you're going to have a really hard time finding a woman who doesn't want/expect to be kissed -- probably a lot. For most women, it's a type of intimacy that we need before we'll even consider having sex. If you really are "disgusted" by it, that will prove problematic in finding a relationship, I think. Now, if you're just looking for a hookup or a casual sex partner, you might be able to find someone who's OK with no kissing.

[tiredofvampires]

Kissing is more intimate than a hug, sex is more intimate than a kiss.

 

I would argue that kissing is more intimate than sex (penetration), as illustrated here:

 

I rarely see "kissing" in porn videos too.

 

True, and you will not see common prostitutes kissing their johns either, even though they are having sex. Why? Because kissing brings (or expresses) a feeling of bonding and closeness that sex doesn't necessarily produce. There's mindless sex -- but hard to have mindless kissing, because unless you're just doing it mechanically as a prelude to sex (as in a casual encounter where strong feelings of liking or loving aren't there), it's an EMOTIONAL act. A passionate kiss is sexual in nature, but it's an expression of emotion that is a lot more personal than the movement of genitals. You can be completely divorced from feeling and get a sexual release from the stimulation from your sex organs, but a kiss is about looking into your partner's eyes, being in contact with their organs of self-expression and breath and voice. It's not a feeling that you can replicate with sex, however potent sex might be.

 

It's also a feeling that helps to warm a woman up, it's a part of foreplay.

 

I always say that you can find anything in this world, but if I had to pick one thing that would be just about the hardest to find, it would be a woman who wants to be in a relationship where there is no kissing. (Fortunately, it's normally the same with men). But for women, relationship sex without kissing (before, during, and after) would be like getting a dinner at a Mexican restaurant without the chips and salsa. It's pretty much unthinkable.

 

Unless you've had a really shady early experience that has disgusted you about kissing, I'm guessing you are just very afraid of doing it wrong, and this is your fear speaking.

 

The lack of kissing in porn is precisely why no one should ever base their ideas of what "real sex" is like on a porn movie. If you think sex with a girlfriend is going to resemble what you've been watching in porn, Dougie, you're in for a bit of a wake-up.

[Batya33]

I don't think kissing is gendered -in my experience men want/desire/enjoy kissing too.

[Dougie_D]

I would argue that kissing is more intimate than sex (penetration), as illustrated here:

 

 

 

True, and you will not see common prostitutes kissing their johns either, even though they are having sex. Why? Because kissing brings (or expresses) a feeling of bonding and closeness that sex doesn't necessarily produce. There's mindless sex -- but hard to have mindless kissing, because unless you're just doing it mechanically as a prelude to sex (as in a casual encounter where strong feelings of liking or loving aren't there), it's an EMOTIONAL act. A passionate kiss is sexual in nature, but it's an expression of emotion that is a lot more personal than the movement of genitals. You can be completely divorced from feeling and get a sexual release from the stimulation from your sex organs, but a kiss is about looking into your partner's eyes, being in contact with their organs of self-expression and breath and voice. It's not a feeling that you can replicate with sex, however potent sex might be.

 

It's also a feeling that helps to warm a woman up, it's a part of foreplay.

 

I always say that you can find anything in this world, but if I had to pick one thing that would be just about the hardest to find, it would be a woman who wants to be in a relationship where there is no kissing. (Fortunately, it's normally the same with men). But for women, relationship sex without kissing (before, during, and after) would be like getting a dinner at a Mexican restaurant without the chips and salsa. It's pretty much unthinkable.

 

Unless you've had a really shady early experience that has disgusted you about kissing, I'm guessing you are just very afraid of doing it wrong, and this is your fear speaking.

 

The lack of kissing in porn is precisely why no one should ever base their ideas of what "real sex" is like on a porn movie. If you think sex with a girlfriend is going to resemble what you've been watching in porn, Dougie, you're in for a bit of a wake-up.

 

I don't think I'm afraid of kissing. I rather do kissing with someone I feel comfortable with or at least maybe if I'm extremely horny. Sure, if I'm in a relationship I'll probably kiss my partner more than I would assume.

 

What bothers me is, based on my previous experience, is because I didn't "go for the kiss" earlier, the girl assumed I wasn't interested. Now I'm wondering if that's the reason I never had multiple dates with others. Maybe they wanted me to kiss them and because I didn't, they just thought I wasn't interested and they backed off I guess.

 

I'm saying I could personally have chemistry with a girl and not have to kiss them. But for a women, it might be the opposite. It's like kissing is the "validation for both parties".

 

Is having chemistry with someone more about being horny towards them? What defines chemistry?

[notalady]

I don't think I'm afraid of kissing. I rather do kissing with someone I feel comfortable with or at least maybe if I'm extremely horny. Sure, if I'm in a relationship I'll probably kiss my partner more than I would assume.

 

What bothers me is, based on my previous experience, is because I didn't "go for the kiss" earlier, the girl assumed I wasn't interested. Now I'm wondering if that's the reason I never had multiple dates with others. Maybe they wanted me to kiss them and because I didn't, they just thought I wasn't interested and they backed off I guess.

 

I'm saying I could personally have chemistry with a girl and not have to kiss them. But for a women, it might be the opposite. It's like kissing is the "validation for both parties".

 

Is having chemistry with someone more about being horny towards them? What defines chemistry?

 

Do you at least go for hand holding?

 

If a guy makes no move to bring it to a step above platonic after several dates, even just hand holding, I take it as he's not interested in me other than friendship and companionship. There's no way around that really.

[agent1607307371]

I would argue that kissing is more intimate than sex (penetration), as illustrated here:

 

Not in the context of real world sex. Porn is a performance meant for a viewer. It's what martial arts movies are to real street fights. When it comes to building up the connection with someone you're dating, you'll basically never go for sex before going for a kiss. And if someone did it would be incredibly off putting.

 

That said, I often see kissing in porn, so maybe I just have different vids than Dougie but if he's basing what sex will be like off porn, he's going to be very disappointed.

[Batya33]

To me personally, chemistry is clicking with someone romantically and sexually. (there is also chemistry that is platonic - you get each other/click on a friendship level) I knew I had chemistry with someone if I desired to kiss the person and hold hands, etc even if we did not actually kiss. The kissing/hand holding would confirm it.

 

I don't think you can create chemistry but you can do a lot to hamper it when it otherwise could happen, and you can increase the spark/click by making certain choices (and decrease it by making others).

 

For example, if you tell yourself you could never be attracted to a redhead, you might, in spite of yourself, be attracted to a redhead, but chances are you also will forego opportunities to see if chemistry could develop if you convince yourself that redhead is a dealbreaker.

[LoveSoDeep]

For me chemistry is that feeling of "This feels right" when you kiss or hold hands or snuggle with someone of the opposite sex. So yes kissing is the best test of chemistry. If a guy kisses me and I feel anything other than that feeling of it just feeling right then chemistry is just not there. It's hard to explain I think usually when it just doesn't feel right it feels more like I'm kissing a family member or a best friend (which I don't usually do). It doesn't feel connected or intimate. If I don't have that feeling it's a no go. Posts by the other women here prove that most women use kissing or other small intimate acts as a gauge for interest and chemistry. There may be women out there who don't care for kissing but that's going to be a rarity...so yes this could very well be why you don't get past 3-4 dates. If a guy didn't go in for the kiss by date 3-4 I'd probably try to initiate one and if he seemed like he didn't like or want it then I'd be done seeing him.

 

Really kissing and hand holding are the only socially acceptable ways to test chemistry. Sure you can test chemistry by some of the ways you listed and said you preferred like oral sex....but you can't just jump to that on a 3rd date without considerable risk. Women are usually a little more risk averse than men anyway. We...or I guess I prefer to test the waters a little before I get to that point. I mean I can't even imagine what it would be like to be receiving oral sex and have that be the moment I realize that I'm not feeling anything for a guy...EEEWWW! Nope! After just thinking that through, I know that's never going to happen.

 

No, they don't kiss in porn but in real movies where the characters have relationships they do and you know what? They do screen tests before casting those parts if an actor and actress try a kissing scene and have no chemistry they won't be cast together because it won't be believable. Chemistry is important to the vast majority of the human population.

 

Honestly, I know you said this wasn't the case Dougie but when you described why you don't really like or need kissing it sounds to me like you're using this to avoid a real emotional and intimate connection. I'm not a professional but really....it couldn't hurt to see someone about this...if for no other reason than just to prove me wrong....why not?

[IAmFCA]

Honestly, I know you said this wasn't the case Dougie but when you described why you don't really like or need kissing it sounds to me like you're using this to avoid a real emotional and intimate connection.

 

I had the same feeling.

 

Kissing is enhanced by emotion, and difficult to do without conveying information of some kind, even if that information is "I feel guarded."

[Dougie_D]

Do you at least go for hand holding?

 

If a guy makes no move to bring it to a step above platonic after several dates, even just hand holding, I take it as he's not interested in me other than friendship and companionship. There's no way around that really.

 

Not really. I'm not a physical person. It took me until Highschool until I hugged women. I didn't start to "give good hugs" until a couple years ago.

 

I always use to think that if I touched a woman I would scare her off. So I guess that's manifested me to not even like the act of doing it

[Dougie_D]

For me chemistry is that feeling of "This feels right" when you kiss or hold hands or snuggle with someone of the opposite sex. So yes kissing is the best test of chemistry. If a guy kisses me and I feel anything other than that feeling of it just feeling right then chemistry is just not there. It's hard to explain I think usually when it just doesn't feel right it feels more like I'm kissing a family member or a best friend (which I don't usually do). It doesn't feel connected or intimate. If I don't have that feeling it's a no go. Posts by the other women here prove that most women use kissing or other small intimate acts as a gauge for interest and chemistry. There may be women out there who don't care for kissing but that's going to be a rarity...so yes this could very well be why you don't get past 3-4 dates. If a guy didn't go in for the kiss by date 3-4 I'd probably try to initiate one and if he seemed like he didn't like or want it then I'd be done seeing him.

 

Really kissing and hand holding are the only socially acceptable ways to test chemistry. Sure you can test chemistry by some of the ways you listed and said you preferred like oral sex....but you can't just jump to that on a 3rd date without considerable risk. Women are usually a little more risk averse than men anyway. We...or I guess I prefer to test the waters a little before I get to that point. I mean I can't even imagine what it would be like to be receiving oral sex and have that be the moment I realize that I'm not feeling anything for a guy...EEEWWW! Nope! After just thinking that through, I know that's never going to happen.

 

No, they don't kiss in porn but in real movies where the characters have relationships they do and you know what? They do screen tests before casting those parts if an actor and actress try a kissing scene and have no chemistry they won't be cast together because it won't be believable. Chemistry is important to the vast majority of the human population.

 

Honestly, I know you said this wasn't the case Dougie but when you described why you don't really like or need kissing it sounds to me like you're using this to avoid a real emotional and intimate connection. I'm not a professional but really....it couldn't hurt to see someone about this...if for no other reason than just to prove me wrong....why not?

 

I'm not even sure if I can be intimate. Emotionally? Yes, It's an A plus.

 

Intimate is a lot of "touching" which I have never felt comfortable my entire life. I didn't even liked to be touched until later in college.

 

Doing it in public? Haha! Forget about it! I need a woman who understands my phobia about it

[Dougie_D]

But for some odd reason I enjoy giving back massages

[notalady]

But for some odd reason I enjoy giving back massages

 

Is it because someone giving you back massage won't be rejecting you (or your touch, well you're not touching them, they're touching you), as you're not required to initiate.

[boltnrun]

The person has their back to you when you give them massages. You don't have to see their face.

[Dougie_D]

Is it because someone giving you back massage won't be rejecting you (or your touch, well you're not touching them, they're touching you), as you're not required to initiate.

 

You misread me. I enjoy giving. When someone wants to give me a back massage it doesn't feel right. I'm already so tensed up probably.

[Dougie_D]

The person has their back to you when you give them massages. You don't have to see their face.

 

Hmm.. Not sure about that. I'm actually a face guy than a body guy. When I masterbate, I get off on the POV, oral videos, etc..

 

When I get dances from stripppers I rather stare at their eyes than their boobs. A woman with beautiful eyes will put me in a whole new level. 😜

 

Maybe that's why kissing seem to suck to me. Your eyes are closed..???

 

I think I want to be physical and giving massages is what NotaLady said.. It's the safer route.

 

Plus I'm actually performing an act that pleases someone. And it can last minutes.. Which somehow pleases me when I know they are enjoying it. If I touch a girls leg or thigh, it's like a short second, and I don't know if she liked it or not.

[IAmFCA]

You misread me. I enjoy giving. When someone wants to give me a back massage it doesn't feel right. I'm already so tensed up probably.

 

I used to.be like this. Receiving pleasure.from someone else was uncomfortable for me, because it required me to relax and relinquish a certain amount of control. I felt much too vulnerable to let someone please me with a massage or in any other way.

 

I would not have described the feeling as "vulnerable"' at the time. My sense of personal space buried deep. Nobody could reach it. I learned that I had become a accustomed to having my boundaries violated, so my sense of self was out of reach. As I practiced drawing a larger circumference around myself, it became easier for me to become intimate with friends and lovers.