alphonsefa

In your own question, you have your own answer. How does she find it so easy? Because she never really loved you. Never listen to the words that someone tells you, just take a look at how they treat you. Words are cheap and easy to use. It's simple to say, "I love you" to someone, it's a lot harder to show that love through your actions. The girl you are hung up on is greedy, self centered, and cold. She knows you still care for her, yet she is telling you how another guy is kissing her?! Oh my God, don't walk from her, run! You continue to keep contact with her, and soon she'll be telling you how good he bangs her. Why would you want someone that has so little disregard for your feelings? To hell with what she's told you in the past or is telling you now, about how much she cares for you; just look at what she is doing to you! Wake up man!!! I know how you feel, I've been there myself. You're best revenge for her is to find someone that truly cares for you. My Ex tried to keep the door open a crack by actually calling me after 3 months of NC to see how I was doing. When she found out that I've been with other women since her, it must've rocked her world. How dare I move on before her?! Well, she dumped me, so I owed her no loyalty or explinations. In fact I told her, unlike her Ex, I would not chase her and would move on to another relationship, should the right woman come along. I think she thought I was going to sit around and pine after her...lol. Based on her one word answers in a phone conversation we had after she learned that I've been dating; I think the power she thouht she may have had in our relationship, got blown out of the water. Like my Mom told me one time, "you get treated the way you allow people to treat you". She's treated you pretty poorly, why are you letting her continue to do it? Man, she did you a favor. I know you don't think so now, but imagine if she pulled this BS after you got married, had kids, bought a house, ect.. If you think you are in pain now, it would so much worse then! Keep your head up, and get away from her.

Yeah, she loves you so much that she's been banging another guy for 14 months! That's one hell of a way of showing love. Dude, she is poison and not worth your time. She doesn't love you! People who love someone don't go around sleeping with other people. First, don't ever contact her again; the more you stay in contact with her, the more pathetic you become in her eyes. If you are waiting for some great epihany to strike her, you are going to be waiting forever. Second, shoould she get you on the phone, tell her leave you alone, that you have no interest in a relationship with her, especially, including a friendship of any kind. You say you are moving on, but you haven't, you have kept contact with her for the 14 months while she's been with another guy. She's a sick B if that's her idea of love, to be with one guy, and tell another that she still loves him! Anytime you are feeling sad or weak, think about what a fool she is playing you for. She has absolutely no respect for you. I could care less what she tells you, just look at what she has done to you!

-Do you think about your ex even though you're in a new relationship? Yes, and to flip it on its head, I wonder if she ever thinks about me anymore. -Do you compare them? Yes, it's human nature to do that. My guess is she'll do the same to some degree when she is with someone new. -Do you ever consider what went wrong and going back to the one you LOVE and trying to make it work? Tried 3 times to make it work, she keeps blowing it all apart. I know what went wrong; I found the right girl at the wrong time. She was in a 6 year abusive relationship before we were together and the damage had been done. She did the whole counseling thing and medication for the depression, but it all seemed to only make things worse. Once it goes bad, for whatever reason, there's little chance of ever getting things back to where they were. -Does it make any difference to you that your ex told you that she still loves you, thinks you're "the one", but will respect your new relationship and wishes you happiness? Though not politically correct to say but, "do you really ever wish someone you broke up with happiness"? Maybe some people do, but I guess it really depends on how the other person treated you. My Ex actually admitted to using me, so I'm not ashamed to say that I hope she is miserable with her life.

Me: I never wanted us to end. I have wanted you back ever since. I never meant to hurt you. I just want you to be happy. Night hun x Dude, bad move here. All this does is feed her ego and lets her know she has the upper hand on you emotionally. She'll start to mess with another guy, and when it doesn't work out, she'll come sniffing around your door again. You think you are helping yourself by telling her these things, but it has the opposite effect. You want to get in her head, you want her to think of you? Then tell her to go away and that you two are "over". Next time she texts you, text her back, "by babe, I'm moving on, we are over!" and leave it at that. Don't text her back, leave her hanging, leave her wondering where this new attitude of yours came from. It will also rock her world if she still has feelings for you. She'll think you have met someone and how dare you move on before her. Afterall, in her mind you can't be happy without her. I guarentee if you send her this message, her attitude will shift and shift quickly!

Hey bud, I feel your pain all too well. How'd you like to have the love of your life, the girl you've waited years to meet, who you just seemed to click with, who you brought out of the depths of pessimism and depression and showed her a life she always dreamed of; suddenly do a 180 degree turn on you and go back to an Ex that abused her and made her life an absolute living hell. The excuse she gave me at the time for making such an unbelievably sick choice was, "when I saw all the things with you, that I worked so hard for with him. No matter who I would be with, I know I had to try with him again". The "all the things" that she was referring to were marriage, a baby, and a house. I wrote to her when this was happening and told her, "you used me". She took my dreams, they just weren't her dreams, they were equally shared; and she gave them away to a guy that has hurt her in ways you couldn't imagine for 6 years! It ripped my heart out and shook me to my core; never have I mis-judged someone so badly. I am usually phenomenal at sizing people up and their motivations, but with her I was blinded; or maybe I just let my heart over rule the logic of my head. This is what you are doing; you can't see the obvious because you have such an emotional connection. That is why this forum is so great, because others who aren't attached can see another's situation for what it is. As far as getting ill, I know that feeling. The thought of my Ex having a baby with a dirt ball that abused her, made me ill to no end! But I did get my revenge! It was nothing I did to her directly, it was just how I conducted myself. I told her that the dynamics of her relationship with him have forever changed, that she is in for a surprise, that she will now compare me to him whether she wants to or not, in all aspects of her relationship; and that he can never be me. She's ran back to him twice during our breaks, the one lasted 2 days and the other time lasted 2 weeks. She can't keep it together with him, because things she loved and took for granted with me, he either can't or won't give to her. He has become more of a disappointment in her eyes than he ever was because now she has a frame of reference that she destroyed, soley herself. She will never, and can never get the things from him that we were planning on, and she has forever ruined this relationship. She has come back 3 times now, but honestly it could never get back on track because she took the things that are so precious in a relationship, honesty and trust, and she forever crushed them. Game over at that point. So though I'll be unhappy in the short term, and I am! I will win out in the end because I have way too much going for me. It's this fact that was such an ego blow to me. I'm an attractive guy who has done things in his life that some people only dream of. I judge people not on their past, but on the present and how they treat me. As much of a troubled past as she had, and she had a boat load of issues, I never held any of it against her; I loved her uncondotionally but I never got that in return from her. But like I said, life is funny. Though it hurts, I can live with what happened because I was myself in the relationship, and treated her better than any man ever has (her words not mine). In time I wonder if she will be able to live with it, because she had everything she wanted at her feet and she threw it away. I know she still thinks about it because I got a phone call 3 months after our third break up to just see how I was doing. This from a girl who told me she'd never call me again, after I told her to go away and never call me again. So just believe in yourself, and take comfort in knowing that she will never find anyone who is going to treat her as well as you have. The irony is that she will always compare you to whoever she is with, and sometimes a memory, or a ghost mind you, is an impossible thing to compete with. You will haunt her, whether you realize it or not. She will not forget you if you "completely cut her off". Good luck!

Wow Ladies, two very insightful opinions; they couldn't have been more accurate had you witnessed it all first hand. Thanks for the thoughts, they really set a few things in place for me. First Bella, you are so accurate it's scary. I think I was definitely used as her ego boost when she gets feeling down. Plus the part of never learning that behavior, both right and wrong, has consequences; and no she never was reciprocal in the relationship. I was always the one making the sacrafices and dealing with her bad behavior. Muneca, you definitely struck a nerve, and were painfully accurate with your assumptions. As much as it hurts to see it in writing from a stranger, it's even harder to have lived through it and realize it so long after the fact. A little quick bio on her previous relationship, and probably current for all I know. She was in a 6 year relationship with a dirt ball and she's equally at blame for continuing to return to something like that; a fact that I told her as I showed her the door at the third break up. More than anything the guy mentally abused her. He took a drop dead gorgeous woman and made her insecure about everything. Then there was the physical abuse, only once that I really know of. He roughed her up, choked her, banged her head against the wall, and bent her over the couch hurting her back. Her 2 brothers found out about the incident and they put him in the hospital. Rightly so in my opinion! Well the boyfriend sued the brothers and wound up getting $8,000. It ruined her relationship with both of them, they haven't spoke to each other since (a couple of years now). She had 2 abortions while with him, a fact that I know haunts her. He also once got a list of all of her Ex boyfriends from her phone book and then made a list that he distributed to them all, to let each know who she had slept with. He also put the list on her neighbors cars in the condo complex she lives in. Oh this guy is a real winner! Treats people like dirt, has a dead end job, is overweight, and the common sense of a moron. She has sever bouts of depression and takes medication for it. After seeing how she conducts relationships, I see why she would be so depressed. I guess what bothers me is that I was never, ever, a doormat for her. Even the things I compromised on, I did more for her daughter (the daughter isn't his, she is from her marriage that ended 7 years ago) than I did for her; such as looking for a house in a certain school district. I didn't see it as a big deal, being we were planning on having a baby together once we were married. It would've been a great place to raise a family. But Muneca, you may have struck the most painful chord. She went through 6 years of hell with him, and couldn't change him. She couldn't get him to give her the things she wanted and be the man she wanted. I met and surpassed every dream she ever had, and outclassed him in every aspect of the relationship, including the bedroom. The only reason I mention that is before we were ever physically together, she would tell me how bad her sex life was with him. No fulfillment for her at all! Well that changed whenever we were together and it was real, so real that she actually called me on the phone while we were in one of our breakup periods and told me that she "misses the sex" with me. Crazy stuff to tell the guy you keep dumping! I just don't understand why she would want that back, to be so sexually unfulfilled! Though sex was great, the real aspects of the relationship were even better; at least on my end. I was always great with her and her daughter, always showed the positive spin on everything, always held my temper and showed by example how a man deals with problems. I always thought dating a woman with a kid would pose a problem, but her daughter was great, I loved her and would've done anything for her. The kid is simply amazing, to have lived in that environment for so long and be so well adjusted, just blows me away! But the one thing I wasn't, was him. She couldn't get him to act like me, and I think it drove her crazy. The first time we split she went back to him, and it lasted 2 days and ended in a hysterical crying fit as he drove her home from dinner, after which she jumped on the phone, left me a message, to tell me how right I was about him, and to let me know how miserable she was. The second time we split, she again went back to him, and again it only lasted a couple of weeks and she tossed him away again and came back to me. I was unaware that she had returned to him after the second break, I thought she just wanted to be alone for a while. When she admitted to being with him a week after she laid in bed crying because she thought I was going propose on Christmas night, it ripped my heart out and a disgust came over me. My tolerance level had been reached and I started calling her on some of the out of line things she would say. I wasn't mean, just brutally honest with her; afterall they were her suggestions so I played along with them. For some reason that bothered her greatly. I may of struck the most sensitive nerve when I agreed with her, that I will keep my options open, should I meet someone I have a future with. This is something she told me to do! But it is painful to realize that she never really loved me, regardless of what she wrote, and said; regardless of planning a family and a future with me. The things she put me through are things you would and could never do to someone you loved. I'd rather inflict the pain on myself before I ever hurt someone I truly loved. Thanks for helping me see the obvious; It's amazing how the head sees it all happening at the time, yet the heart overwhelms it and finds ways to reason it all away. I had really started to let her go before she called after that three month stretch. Now when I think about it, it was a selfish decision on her part. She knows I love her, yet I let her be, let her live her life without me in it. Why did she take even that away from me? I felt like I went back to square one after that phone call. She's in for a surprise should she ever call again, but I don't think she will, I think I was the ideal man that she hoped to project on the abusive Ex. She was in love with the concept of me, but never really me. OUCH!

I know she still loves me (she openly told me) but she has put all of these invisible barriers up so that I cant get too close... She's seeing another guy at the moment (at least I'm more attractive), according to her he's the rebound guy... From an outsiders perspective, she's using you, keeping you as a backup plan. How much does she love you if she's making time for him and not you?! I know bud, I've been down this long road myself. Stay away from her, let her experience life without you. But that doesn't mean to be at her beckon call anytime she calls you for something. Don't return her calls! Don't let her turn you into a friend, because that will absolutely kill any chance you have of getting back with her. I know you want to keep the lines of communtication open, but if you do, it will have the opposite effect of what you want. Damn dude, think about how cold she is acting towards you. She knows you care about her, and yet she's dating another guy. Don't believe the rebound part at all. I think for some reason she thinks that is supposed to make you feel better. I had a girl like this who would pull me in and then run, pull me in and then run, over and over. The only time I got her attention is when I wasn't in her life, and I mean at all! Good luck!

I have an Ex that has left 2 times, the third time when she started her stuff again, was pretty much a mutual break. She would leave but yet always keep the door cracked a hair so she could get back in. When I seen the third time coming I slammed the door so she had no way back. In fact I told her to go away and never call me again, especially when she got depressed, which she so often does. Well 3 months of NC and she called me, I was stunned. I kept the conversation strictly to our careers, no personal stuff. She had told me she interviewd for a Management job, something she's wanted for a long time. So I let 3 weeks pass and then stoppped by the mall store where she works to say hello; it's on the way home from work for me. Again we had a nice talk and she greeted me with a hug and said, "it's good to see you". We parted ways and I let 2 more weeks pass. I then called her to see if she had gotten the job, and to see how she was doing. I got one word answers and a total cold vibe. To find out that she didn't get the Management job she interviewed for was like pulling teeth. Was it seen as a failure on her part that she didn't want to admit to me? I wouldn't have viewed it that way; in fact I would've told her to brush it off, there will be more opportunities. Then she said, "you don't have to call". So I said, "fine I won't call you anymore, I just called to see how you were doing, bye"; then hung up. I felt like an idiot trying to have a conversation with someone who obviously didn't want to talk to me. That was six weeks ago, and it's confused me to no end. Why would someone who constantly threw the relationship away, who called me up after I told her to leave me alone, someone that I would've given the world for and who I was always good to, suddenly give me the total cold treatment. I did nothing at all to deserve it; she's the one that called me back. Even when I stopped to see her at the mall and called her, I never brought the relationship up, never put pressure on her at all. Could it be anger at me moving on quicker than her? I guess I just don't understand her mindset, maybe I never will. Why the one word answers and the silent treatment? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Not taht it will change anything, but maybe leave me a little less lost. She knows I have dated other women since her, on top of it I was given a Management position, basically the same position she was interviewing for. They are different companies but the same positions. I don't know how she viewed this when we talked, whether she was happy for me or it bothered her. If she only knew what I've moved on to since! I was fortunate enough to keep some oldtime connections from the Music Industry open, and it's opened big opportunities for me that I once only dreamed of. I have such mixed feelings about this. On one hand I'm happy as could be that I will get the opportunity to do what so few get the chance to do; to do something you love, Music! Then on the other hand, I'm sad she won't be here to share it all with me. There was a stretch while we were dating where I was unemployed. She told me she resented me for it, because everything just came to me, a nice house, great credit, ect... I wish it worked liked that, fact is I saved a lot of my money while I was making good money in Music. What struck me as odd is that she resented me for it, where I thought it was something she'd appreciate because it offered us the opportunity to buy a beautiful house and live a great life together, without having to struggle for money. I thought she knew that what was mine would've been hers. Sorry to ramble, I just don't why these feelings keep hanging on and the thoughts keep running through my head. Thanks for listening.

It takes away all of the power they had and felt over you if you're the one moving on before they do. Wow, it was staring me in the face and I missed it. I have an Ex that has left 2 times, the third time when she started her stuff again, was pretty much a mutual break. She would leave but yet always keep the door cracked a hair so she could get back in. When I seen the third time coming I slammed the door so she had no way back. In fact I told her to go away and never call me again, especially when she got depressed, which she so often does. Well 3 months of NC and she called me, I was stunned. I kept the conversation strictly to our careers, no personal stuff. She had told me she interviewd for a Management job, something she's wanted for a long time. So I let 3 weeks pass and then stop by the mall store where she works to say hello; it's on the way home from work for me. Again we had a nice talk and she greeted me with a hug and said, "it's good to see you". We parted ways and I let 2 more weeks pass. I then called her to see if she had gotten the job, and to see how she was doing. I got one word answers and a total cold vibe. To find out that she didn't get the Management job she interviewed for was like pulling teeth. Was it seen as a failure on her part that she didn't want to admit to me? I wouldn't have viewed that way; in fact I would've told her to brush it off. Then she said, "you don't have to call". So I said, "fine I won't call you anymore, I just called to see how you were doing, bye"; then hung up. That was six weeks ago, and it's confused me to no end. Why would someone who constantly threw the relationship away, who called me up after I told her to leave me alone, someone that I would've given the world for and who I was always good to, suddenly give me the total cold treatment. I did nothing at all to deserve it; she's the one that called me back. Even when I stopped to see her at the mall and called her, I never brought the relationship up, never put pressure on her at all. Could what you posted be the reason why? I guess I just don't understand her mindset, maybe I never will. Why the one word answers and the silent treatment? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Not taht it will change anything, but maybe leave me a little less lost.

Tman, The money issue is just a way for her to keep a tie with you, and is the reason she isn't pursuing it. See if this scenario strikes any similarity to yours: After the second breakup with the Ex, I had totally left her be. She owed me $700, and even though we had no communication, I knew she would pay it back. For as screwed up as she is, and believe me she is, she was never a money grubber. So during this separation, after hearing nothing for 4 weeks, I get a message left on my machine that she had made an appointment to file for her taxes electronically. She didn't need to tell me that because she already ahd given me a time fram in which she would repay the money. It was simply an excuse to call me. So during her message, my machine cut her off and I only got part of it. So I called and left her a message. Just said, "hey, your message got cut off, bye". Well she called that night and the call never mentioned the tax refund, it was more a clear her conscience call. I think what jarred her most was when she said to me, "well be thankful you're not with me, I don't know if I can have another kid". To which I responded, "as much as I would like to have a kid with you, I would never, ever, throw you away because you weren't able to give me a baby". The next day I got a one line email from her, "should we try again?" As not to pressure her, I made a dinner date with her 2 weeks out, figured it would give us time to talk again and maybe work through a few issues. Well one night I get a call before the dinner date, that she wants to reschedule the date because of work, and blah blah blah. It wasn't becuase of work, she was just in a another depressed mood and was in her typical, I want to be alone phase. So I called her up and was very nice, told her not to worry about rescheduling, we could just call it off for good. She admitted to being depressed and in a funk, and when the issue of the money came up and she wanted to drop it off I said, "I don't really care to see you again, just mail it to me". Must of struck a nerve, or maybe it bothered her that I was cutting off the one tie left she had with me, because she pleaded to be able to drop it off. I said, "whatever! you want to drop it off, drop it off. Good luck with the depression thing and being alone, take care". Then I hung up. Well 2 days later she had the money and came over to drop it off. When she handed it to me and thanked me, I made way top open my door and let her back out, yet she wasn't leaving. She asked for a hug, whcih led to you know what, and then she started calling me again. In fact she called me later that night to tell me that I was all she could think about. But then as usual, over the next few weeks, she couldn't keep it together, and it again all fell apart. So the reason she isn't pursuing then money is because it acts as an open invitation for her to contact you at any time. Inside you may want that, but it's really just another way for her to use you, to keep an avenue open to you if she changes her mind or whatever relationship she is in doesn't work out.

Sorry dude, you took what I said in totally the wrong light. I can only go on what you've told us so far and relate it back to my situation. It wasn't meant as a personal attack or a judgement on you; I don't even know you, just a little about your situation. Yes, I am bitter, very. Not bitter because we broke up, maybe I didn't make that clear. Relationships go bad sometimes, I'm an adult, I understand that. I'm bitter that she used me, something she actually admitted to, with the caveat being, "but it wasn't on purpose". LOL, well I guess that made it okay then in her twisted sense of reality. Yet, I in no way would ever hurt her, or cause any conflict, or turmoil in her life (I never have and I never will); she does a good enough job of that herself. Unlike her EX that would've physically hit her, I had a few stern words for her and showed her the door. Do I wish her happiness, absolutely not. I hope she stays as miserable and depressed as she was before she met me. That may not be the politically correct thing to say, but it's honest. On top of it, I've left her alone everytime she's pulled back. I've never chased her without her pulling me in first. In fact at the last breakup I told her to go away and not call me anymore. She told me she'd never call again, and then 3 months later the phone rang. Guess who?! Am I doing what I'm doing to prove myself to her, or rub her face in it? Absolutely not! I've already proven myself. The one positive thing she did do for me, inadvertently, was remind me that you come into this world alone and you leave the same way, so you better look out for yourself first. The breakup shook me so bad, that got me out of the waiting for thinngs to happen mode, and pushed me into the making things happen mode. Now back to your situation. Listen to me and others on this one. Do not pursue her, if you really want her back. The more you pursue the more distant she'll grow. What threw my Ex off balance and still does, is that she thought I needed her. When I left her alone it confused her and she actually came crying onetime saying, "you're the strong one, not me". No, I wasn't any stronger than her, I just realized that the more I tried to get her back, the more she would pull away. What I was trying to say to you is, don't let her have her cake and eat it too. She either wants you in her life or she doesn't? If you want to become her friend, hoping that this will be an avenue to re-spark her feelings, you're in for a painful ride. The worst part being, that she really will turn you into a friend and only see you in that light. She broke up with you. The greatest gift you can give her now is to let her see what life really is without you; by that I mean, totally without you. Don't give her the comfort of knowing you are only a message or phone call away. It makes too easy for her. I'm not being sarcastic when I tell you this, really give her the gift of knowing what life is like without you. If she comes back to you, you have a chance. If she doesn't, you don't need her. You've already told her how you feel, and I'm sure she knew it all along. You need to do nothing more on your part to prove to her that you care, except sit on your hands and let the chips fall where they may. I'm doing it myself. It's been 5 weeks since we've exchanged a word with each other. And anytime you are feeling weak, just tell yourself, that if you contact her, it's going to have the opposite effect of what you want, and it will. Good luck!

Tman, I don't think your Ex was ever in love with you, regardless of what she told you; as I don't believe my Ex was truly in love with me either. Don't mean to be harsh, but it is what it is. It's funny, she may have deemed you as being needy because you wore your heart on your sleeve, yet she needed you so much at that time, that she actually lied to you by telling you she loved you, on top of all of the other promises that she made. My Ex did it too! "You're heaven sent", "you are the greatest guy", "I feel like I don't deserve you", "I've never had it that long!" (referring to how long we would have sex). ect.... I've heard them all. She was even making appointments to go see houses for us to buy, and talking about having a baby with me. Yet, her actions destroyed all of that in the blink of an eye. Judge people on what they do, and not what they say. Talk is cheap, but how they treat you will tell you all you need to know. Sadly, "I love you" is a term that many people throw around loosely, especially people who want to hold onto you until they decide what they want. Don't ever go for the "I'm confused" or "I need some space" lines. Yeah she may be confised, but it's not about whether she loves you or not. Her confusion lies in how she can keep you strung along until she can find something that she deems as better. One thing I've learned is don't take it personal, the way I intially did. The guy my Ex went back to on and off treated her horribly and actually physically abused her the one time. Now couple that with the fact that he is over weight, not in the best of health, has a dead end job, and has done things to her that you could never imagine! Damn, what women wouldn't want that?!....LOL. That is one heck of an ego blow, even to a guy like myself who has never had trouble dating attractive women and has done things professionally that most people would never get the chance to do. So look at it objectively, did she ever really love you or did she tell you things to keep you strung along? She once asked me what my two biggest fears were and I gave her a God's honest answer. I told her personally, it would be not having her in my life; and professionally it would be not living up to my potential. When I lost the one thing (her pulling away from me) it forced me into a direction I thought I had lost forever, and would've had I stayed with her. I figured, okay, one of my biggest fears has already happened. I lost the girl I loved, the girl I wanted a family with, the girl who meant everything to me. Then I realized, I have absolutely no control over her feelings, but I do have control over what I do professionally. I reached back to an old connection from the Music Indistry, an Industry that I had pretty much walked away from 7 years ago. During the course of the rekindling of that old relationship, I helped my buddy out, not because I wanted anything from him, but because he was a friend and needed a hand. The more we talked together, the more we realised that although we've had what other people would deem success, we never accomplished the things we truly dreamed of. In June I formed a partnership with my friend, and another friend of his. My friend just so happens to have 2 Grammy Awards and 19 Gold and Platinum albums, I have 2 myself. I couldn't of asked for a better business venture to enter, with 2 better people. Now I find myself realizing that had I stayed with her, and I could get her back if I really wanted to (she's already come back 3 times), I would never be in this current position. The shock of losing her, made me cut through all of the garbage of life and lay it all on the line to go for what I've always dreamed about. So in the end she did me a great favor, first she left me which I am now grateful for because the one thing I don't want is someone who doesn't really want me in her life. Secondly, she woke me out of a funk professionally. She made me understand what things I had control over and what things I didn't. I learned that she doesn't need me and I don't need her. I learned that as much as I am hurt now, when this all shakes out in the not so distant future, I'm the one that is holding all of the cards. I can tell you exactly where she'll be 5 years from now and the type of guy and life she will have. I'm a wildcard, she has no idea what I am up to, and she has no idea what I will be in 5 years. Though she will hear of it, not from me directly, but because of the nature of publicity and advertising. I'm not the one going to be asking the "what if" question, she will be. Keep your head up, and don't initiate contact with her under any circumstance. Let her do the work, she owes it to you for the way she has treated you.

Hey Tman, I've dealt with the "mother" of all psychotic women. She has taken off and come back 3 times and actually called me after three months of NC, after our third breakup. I know exactly how you feel, I don't think you ever really shake it off, regardless of what you will hear. Don't get me wrong, as time goes on you will stop thinking of her less, but make no mistake, should you cross paths with her for whatever reason in the future; a lot of feelings that you thought wre dead will resurface. Am I telling you this to depress you? Absolutely not! It's just a fact of intense relationships, especially when you lay it all out there to love someone whole heartedly. I know this for fact, because I have every reason to hate her, and yet even though I know it won't happen, I do wish for that moment of epiphany that hits her, and she realizes what she has really lost. Here is my perspective on my Ex, and maybe it will give you a new point of view on yours. Point 1.) My Ex went 3 months of total NC before she picked up the phone to call me to just see how I was doing. View 1.) To be objective about it, I must really mean very little in her life, if she could just "turn me off" like that for 3 months straight. Do you really want someone who can "just turn you off" when she wants to? When she ignores your emails and disappears for stretches as she does now, she is "turning you off". Point 2.) Never beat yourself up for telling her how you truly feel, regardless of what advice you are given here. View 2.) Now by saying that, I don't mean to be her doormat. And I also agree with some previous posts that you don't want to completely fawn over her because that is a turn off. But you know what, at least you laid it on the line for her, and told her what was in your heart. I'd rather lose someone by wearing my heart on my sleeve, then to get involved in games where I have to worry about what and what not to say. If I have to appear as something I am not to gain the attention of someone, I don't want them! The other downside of the games, and make no mistake they are games when you have to strategize how to get someone back, is that even when you get them back, you then have to remain in character. Do you really want someone for which you have to think of ways to make them pay attention to you? Point 3.) Love is black and white! View 3.) True love is black and white. It's not something that is artificially created or twisted in painful treatment from someone that you probably would give the world for (even though she doesn't deserve it). It's not clouded in indecision and doubt. It's not clouded in game playing and strategies to make someone pay attention to you. Here's the best strategy, be yourself. Because if you are always your true self you won't have any regrets if a relationship should go bad. I can live with losing someone because they didn't feel as strongly as I did for them; but I couldn't live with losing them under false pre-tenses. Her treatment of you is clouded in greyness, even the way she seems to be holding onto you, leading you on, and keeping you as the back up plan, should her grand scheme blow up in her face (which it undoubtedly will). With that being said, is her treatment of you black and white in regard to her love for you? Point 4.) Sometimes life pushes us in directions that we should've found for ourselves. View 4.) In the future, whenever you see someone pulling back from you like she has done with you, walk away from the relationship. Don't ever try to make someone love you, and don't EVER try to fix something that you didn't break! Of course every relationship has issues. But I bet you wouldn't have thrown the relationship away, yet she did. She took the one thing that was most precious to you, your love for her, and she tossed it aside like yesterday's trash. I think that speaks more to who she is as a person and has nothing at all to do with you. It seems her solution is to just blow something up when she isn't happy with it. Worse yet, after she blows it up, she totally leads you on to keep you hanging on, even though she doesn't want you. And make no mistake, she doesn't want you, the same as my EX doesn't want me! If she really loved you and wanted you, she would go through hell to try and get you back. So unless she lays it all out there for you, and professes some new found love for you, stay away from her; otherwise she will keep you on the string (regardless of how much you profess you are healed) and she will continue to hurt you. Point 5.) It always rubs me the wrong way when people tell me that NC is to heal myself. Maybe that's what it is for some people, but not me. View 5.) NC is a test. It's a test to see her true feelings for you. If you go 100% NC and she isn't contacting you, she has given you a look into her soul and true feelings for you. Think about it like this. If you were worried you could really lose someone special in your life, and you really cared for them, and thought you may have made a mistake in ending the relationship, you'd do everything possible to make contact and let that person know that you were sorry and that you were wrong. When she "turns you off" like this, she doesn't look real worried about losing you. You're the back up plan, that's why she is stringing you along. No one deserves to be anyone elses back up plan, espcially someone like you that gave your heart to her, and laid it all on the line. When she threw your relationship away, she crossed that line; and speaking from experience, once that line is crossed the relationship is over. You can't put the genie back in the bottle, no matter how hard you try. And the easier you make it for her to hold you, or worse yet, to come back to you, the more she will actually lose resepect for you. Crazy, but true! Don;t mean to sound negative or harsh, just tryin to give you a fresh perspective.

No, don't, cotact her, it will set you back, as someone has previously posted. You are likely to not get the response you envision from her and it's going to make you more depressed. Take my case, it's been every bit of a soap opera! After the last breakup with her, I sent my usual email and then made 1 call and she greeted me coldly! I was hurt, and still am. But I went total N/C for 3 months, and the strange part is that I was feeling great and the thoughts of her and I together started to grow more distant. I thought, "she let 3 months pass and didn't contact me at all. Well I guess I know where I stand as far as importance in her life". Surely if she cared for me she wouln't have let 3 months pass! Well one night the phone rings and it's her. She said she just wanted to see how I was doing. So I kept the conversation to out careers, no personal stuff at all was discussed. We say goodbye and I hear nothing more from her. Three weeks pass and I stop at the mall store where she works, just to say hello and see how she was doing. We talk for about 10 minutes, again mostly about superficial issues. We say goodbye and then two more weeks pass. During our conversations, she told she was up fo a Manager's job. So I let the two weeks pass and I called, said hello, asked how she was doing, asked how her daughter has been, and asked if she had gotten the job she interviewed for. I was met with one word answers! I never did anything to this girl, in fact, I treated better than anyone ever has (her words, not mine). Feeling like an idiot on the other end of the phone (ever try to have a conversation with someone who is giving you one word answers?), I say, "well I just called to see how you were doing, take care", and then I hung up. Her calling me actually set me back. The strange part is that life in general has never been better, I've formed a partnership with 2 friends (all of us Recording Engineers), one of whom has 2 Grammy's and 19 Gold and Platinum albums, and I have 2 gold albums. Yet, with all of this to be happy about, I still feel empty inside. The sad part is that I would've traded it all for her, would've given her all that I could; yet she couldn't conduct a casual two minute conversation with me. Honestly, I don't think you ever really heal from relationship that you invested so much of your emotion into. You simply go on living life and deal with things the way they are. It's been a month since my "one word answer" conversation with her. It will be the last call I ever made to her. For in my eyes, here is a girl I did absolutely nothing to. She sabatoged the relationship (her words also) and then I let her be. She's the one that called me after the 3 months, yet when I did the same in return; I felt treated with disdain and coldness. As much as it hurts not having what we had, it would hurt even more to be with someone, who truly didn't want to be with me. I hope she doesn't call again.

I know the proverbial logic of, you shouldn't harbor feelings of hate for the Ex, and that for the relationship to end both parties were responsible. Well in some cases that may be true and both parties may be responsible, but there are many cases where one person and one person only is responsible. I'll pull no punches, I harbor hate and disdain for my Ex. I hope her life continues the way it does before she met me, fits of depression and mounting financial debt. I hope she loses her car, her house, and everything precious to her. Given her history, there's a pretty good chance I'll get my wish. Call it petty, call it bitterness, and it certainly may well be; but I have no feelings of guilt for feeling this way; for whatever hardships she will face will not be brought about by me; they will be brought about by the poor decisions she has made her entire life and the ones she continues to make. Why such bitterness? Well it's a very long story. But to cut to the chase I was involved with a woman who had been dating a guy for six years, who treated her like dirt, brought about unspeakable horrors to her life, and tore apart her self worth. I showed her nothing but love and was always a positive force in her life. For my reward, she developed a pattern of breaking up with me and going back to him, then running back to me. To let that happen is totally my fault. But, I fell for the psycho babble of how she doesn't think straight because she was formerly in an abusive relationship; and I wound up cutting her slack, that I would've never done for another girl. Yup, I know I was the rebound guy. In my defense, after the third time she had come back to me, and then started to flake out once again, I flat out told her to go away, leave me out of the drama that is her life, and to never contact me again. I also told her that the Ex abusive boyfriend and her deserve each other, because he's sick for treating her that way, and she's sick for continually going back. For 4 months there was NC between us, then I get a phone call to "see how I was doing". The conversation was kept strictly to our careers, hers and mine, and no personal details about relationships was discussed. She had told me that she had interviewed for a Managers position and she sounded excited that she may get it. Well I let 3 weeks pass, and I make a phone call to her, in the same manner as hers to me. I had no intention of trying to get her back, I simply asked her how she had been doing and asked her what had happened with the job. She didn't get the job and I got one word answers, felt like an idiot trying to turn it into a conversation, so I said, "sorry I won't call anymore, I just wanted to see how you made out with the job. Bye". So it was okay for her to call me and I actually carried on a normal conversation with her. I was nothing but good to this girl, and even though she may not want to be with me, which I can accept; I'm not the one that called her after 4 months of NC, and I never chased her or hounded her. Yet for my contribution to her life, and I think the biggest one may have been to have finally broken up her sick, twisted, relationship with the abusive Ex. All I received in return was coldness and disdain; from a girl I did absolutely nothing to. To quote her, "you are the greatest guy, you treated me better than anyone ever has". I was good to her, and to her 12 year old daughter, and always made it a point to as how her daughter was, regardless of what was taking place between us. So yes I am bitter, and I hope her life continues to be the living hell that she has built it into. I guess the saying is true, "there's a fine line between love and hate". I don't need any advice about working on myself, I'm jsut fine, just ticked that I invested so much time, effort, and emotion, into a woman that never really deserved it. And though I am bitter, and most certainly will get my wish to see her miserable, and have every intention of dangling my success in her face; it's really just a hollow victory. Because in the end, no one wins.

Thanks for the replies. I think the glimmer of hope lives within everyone on this board, whether they want to admit it or not. The amazing thing is that she does nothing but disappoint me now, and I still have feelings for her. It's downright maddening to me, and I hate myself for it at times. How could I possibly love someone that has treated me so badly?! My biggest mistake with her was giving her too much leeway because I knew much of the details of her abusive relationship. Under normal circumstances I would've never let a girl come back after the first time she left me; I don't know why I let her troubled past cloud my judgement. This is a girl that called me crying, weeks after she dumped me at Christmas time, and tell me I was the greates guy in the world and that no one had ever treated her as well as I did. I didn't bend over backwards for her or anything, I simply treated her the way you treat someone you love. I don't know, maybe it is the fact that she doesn't like herself, something she'll readily admit; and that for me to love her, in her mind meant that there must be something wrong with me. The only positive to come from the cold response she gave me was that it was a jolting reminder of how cold and detached she is able to become when she gets depressed. Even though I knew nothing would come of my phone call to her, I really expected a friendly voice, not the bitterness and contempt that was shown. She said, "you don't have to call"; and I told her, "okay, I won't call you again, I just called to see how you were doing". I guess the coldness of her call really is a metaphor for how she treats relationships. She sabotages everything good in her life, with the exception of her daughter. I guess I was just another actor in the drama that she calls a life. This one has left a scar that not even time will heal. To have everything you ever truly wanted ripped away from you with such little regard for your feelings is very difficult to make sense of and deal with. I guess I'll never learn the real reasons or her true feelings. I wish she would've never called again. I had written her off due to the 4 months of no contact, and then she cracks the door open, I come in a little, and then she slams it back in my face for no reason whatsoever!

Been throuh everything posted here and then some. Seen the girl I loved, planned a family with, planned a life with, out of the clear blue, leave me to go back to an ex boyfriend that was abusive to her. Not to toot my own horn, but professionally I've accomplished things that he could only dream of, am better looking than him, was a better lover than him, and most importantly showed her something he was incapable of, LOVE. Talk about an ego blow! During the first breakup, yeah there were more than one after this, I told her that I could understand her going back to her ex husband because he was a genuine good guy. Told her that as much as that would've hurt, I could've accepted it, and given the fact that they had a beautiful 12 year old daughter, I would've understood it. We got together for another month after this, and again it fell apart. The mood swings from her were severe, she'd shift from conversation to conversation. Oh yeah, don't forget to let me add that she was on medication for depression, something that came about while she was with the dirt ball, abusive, ex boyfriend; just another legacy he's contributed to her life. It's not about him though, it never was. It's about her and the decisions she has made for her life in the past, and the ones she has made in regard to our relationship. Both times that she broke it off, I totally turned her off. My philosophy is that I don't want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me, regardless of how much it hurts to be without them. Both times she contacted me again. The third time we got together my tolerance level was very low, and when she started the BS again, I met her halfway and beat her to the door; this was a movie ending that I was much to familiar with. When she came to pick up the remainder of her laundry at my house, I packed everything she had given me in a bag and included it with her clothes. She was falling into another one of those, "I want to be alone", "I'm depressed", moodsl something she had a history of doing. Her idea was to pick up her laundry, leave the door open, and then call me in a couple of weeks when she was feeling better. I was tired of being the bait on the hook and beat her to the punch by telling her that her and the ex abusive boyfriend deserve each other; because he's sick for treating her the way he does, and she's sick for always going back. Oh yeah, don't let me forget this little tid bit. She was with the scum bag a week after she broke up with me the second time; something I didn't find out until the very end. I also told her, "the next time you get depressed, don't call me!" She turned to me and said, "I will never call you again"! Four months passed and slowly the pain began to subside as each day would pass. And then it happened a phone call from her to see how I was doing. The conversation was kept to her career and my career, no personal info was discussed beyond the proverbial, "how have you been doing?" I let 3 weeks pass, and I stopped by her work to say hello. She works as an Assistant Manager for a store in a mall that I pass on my way home from work. We talk, nothing about us, but more about how her daughter was, how my job was going, and about her opportunity to get a Manager's job that she's wanted for the longest time. We say our goodbyes and 2 more weeks pass with NC. I call her to see if she's heard anything about the job, and she is giving nothing but one word answers; she didn't get the job, and she obviously doesn't want to talk to me. She said, "you don't have to call", and I responeded very non-chalantly, "okay, I won't call you anymore. I just called to see how you were and see if you had heard anything about the job. Bye". It seems I'm treated with a double standard. It was alright for her to call me to see how I was doing. I wasn't rude when she called, I talked with her. Yet when I extended the same courtesy to her, I was met with one word answers. I had left her on her own for 4 months, she was the one that called me. Even when she called I gave her space. I never asked her back, wasn't pursuing her after the break up and wasn't pursuing her after she contacted me. I asked nothing of her and was no stress to her. So why was I met in such a cold manner, with one word answers? What surprised me is at the least I expected her to be cordial; a simple, "I'm doing fine and how have you been" , would've sufficed. Was it anger, resentment, the depression, that accounted for such an awkward one word conversation? This girl broke up with me and I gave her what she wanted, space. She's the one that called me after 4 months to see how I was. All I did was the same in return, some 5 weeks later. Why was I met with such coldness? I didn't do anything to her to warrant that.

This is a letter I wrote to a friend on here that is going through a similar situation. There are a few here that already know my story. Thought this may give some the insight of the futility there is in trying to win someone back, and how that love turns to disdain; not in all cases, but in some. I tried 3 times with this girl and it always falls apart. I walk away (total NC) and she winds up calling and we start it up again. It's a train not worth riding, it's a train that offers nothing but pain, and most importantly, it's a train that never finds a destination. Hey, I have thrown in the towel with *****; it's just too emotionally draining to live the psycho drama that is her life. After her one phone call, I stopped by her work a couple of weeks later to say hello. She manages a store in the mall that I pass by on my way to work. We talked about 10 minutes, nothing about the relationship, just small talk stuff like, how's the job going, how are your parents doing, ect... She told me the Ex boyfriend (probably her current boyfriend knowing her) had won his lawsuit for $8500 against her two brothers, that had beat the h*ll out of him when they found out that he had hit her. The one brother is very successful, a Chiropractor for one of the professional laccrosse teams, but the other brother is a mess (on and off of drugs) and had to declare bankruptcy. So now the successful brother is footing the bill for the other. Strange thing for her to tell, considering she knows what a dirt ball I think the guy is, and knows how much dis-respect I have for her continued involvement with him. I really thought she would've called back by now. It's been exactly 2 weeks since I stopped at the mall to see her. But, my phone hasn't rang once. Also, maybe I was seeing things, but I had been visiting my Parent's, who happen to live not to far from her abusive Ex, and a motorcycle drove by with a blonde on the back that looked a lot like *****. Maybe it wasn't but it sure looked a lot like her. I wish I knew for certain it was her because the disgust factor I have for the way she conducts her personal life would've climbed 10 fold! I just can't do it anymore, can't invest the emotions in a woman that by all accounts has no idea what she wants in life. Don't try to put yourself in situations with your Ex, or think that you are going to spark some deep interest that you are certain she has. That stuff is like a whirlpool, and before you know it you are sucked into it. I don't want someone in my life that I have to convince to want me. I'm certain, had I pursued ***** after her phone call, or after my visit, I'd have her back now. But what would be the sense of it. Has anything really changed? Nope! It would be the same pattern, she'd come back for a month or two and then the mood swings would start again, she'd want to be alone again, months would pass, and she'd call me up again. The reason I know this is because it's a pattern that she had with the Ex for 6 years. I just can't let someone do that to me. I wouldn't respect myself and the person doing it definitely wouldn't respect me. I'd be lying if I wished her well. Honestly, I hope her life tailspins and the $10,000 of credit card debt she has continues to grow. I hope she remains unhappy and never finds peace. They may be mean things to say, but they are honest and I have no guilt for having those feelings. Afterall, I won't be the cause of any of her woes, in fact, I offered her a life she always dreamed of and she tarnished it and threw it away. I hope she lives to regret it and that it haunts her until the day she dies. Professionally, I have something breaking that is potentially very big. I worked in the music industry (Recording Engineer) for years and have recently formed a partnership with two other guys who have shared the same profession, one of which has 2 grammy awards and 19 gold and platinum albums. I have a couple of gold albums myself. Make no mistake, though I am doing this mainly for myself, becuase it's something I love to do, I absolutely want to dangle it and rub it in a few peoples faces, especially my Ex. I had been away from it when I was dating *****. In fact, there was a 3 month stretch where I wasn't working when I was with her. She resented me for not working. Why, I don't know? She sure as hell borrowed money from me to pay her bills (which she did pay back). But, I was at a crossroads professionally. I would've taken any job to have a future with her; as much as I loved the music industry, I would've walked away from it if it meant keeping her. I guess that's what hurts the most, I was willing to give so much, yet she wasn't willing to give anything. This venture will take a few months to get off of the ground, it's currently being formulated now. But make no mistake, I will dangle it front of her face; not to get her back into my life, but to show her what her life could have been. As petty as that sounds, it's how I feel. Maybe it's just the culmiantion of the frustration, the disappointment, and the realization that things are finally over. Hope you are doing well...

Well, I guess you have to some times beat something to death before it just withers away and dies. I've received a lot of great advice here the past 8 months and thank everyone who has taken the time to read my story and reply to my posts. Who would've thought that total strangers could offer you more compassion and caring than someone you not only offered your heart to, but a future brighter than anything she could ever have imagined. You guys and gals have been great. After 3 1/2 months, my ex-girlfriend, who vowed to never call me again, picked up the phone to "see how I was doing". The conversation we had was kept extremely light and really only focused on our careers, what she has been doing and what I've been doing; no discussion of our personal lives at all, such as are you seeing anyone, or what have you been doing with your free time. The call lasted about 10 minutes and when she said, "well I just called to see how you were doing"; I used it as an out for our conversation and said, "well it was good hearing from you, take care", and we said goodbye. Though I initially was flattered by the call, I didn't know whether she was throwing out a feeler to see if I hated her, or just a lonely soul looking for peaceful voice in a sea mayhem, which is her personal life. At the breakup, I told her, "next time you get depressed, don't F'ing call me". I was sick of being her crutch everytime she got lonely, and doubtful, of her decision to cast me from her life. But as I started to think about it, it began to really anger me that she would call me for something as frivilous and stupid as that. This is a girl that didn't want me in her life, and suddenly after 3 1/2 months, she has a concern for my welfare?! Ten more days passed and there was no more contact between us. I was well into getting over her before her phone call, there were days that would pass that she was totally our of my thoughts. After her call, I felt like I took a step back. I didn't chase after her or call her, I never did during the relationship. Why do you call someone who you dodn't want in your life? So today, 10 days after her call, I stopped by at the mall store where she works. When she turned and saw me, she was surprised to say the least. She said, "what are you doing here"? I said, "I was on my way home from work and just stopped by to say hi". She greeted me with a very casual hug and half heartedly said, "it's good to see you". The conversation again was light, no discussion of who is dating who or anything like that. What struck me odd was she made it a point to tell me that the abusive ex-boyfriend, who her brothers had beat up, got a court settlement of $8500 from them. In addition to that, the Ex had made her Mother testify in the case. She made it a point to tell me that she had called the Ex when she discovered her Mom was being drug into it, and ended the conversation in a screaming fight. Why she told me this is betond me, she knows I think her Ex is the scum of the earth for physically and mentally abusing her, and ny the way he conducts himself. During our conversation, she made reference to an expensive candle she had bought me. I said, "yeah, I still have that candle". She said, "you should use it". I said, "I do use it"! Then she threw a line from left field at me, she said in a sarcastic manner, "yeah, you probably use it with all of the girls you bring over there". So I shot back in my best, sarcastic, humorous, way by saying, "totally". Well I got a look and an eye roll that would've stopped a clock. But then we just rolled the conversation onto another topic. At the end she said, "well I should get back to work". So I abruptly cut things short by saying, "well it was good seeing you, take care". She offered the same, "it was good seeing you too" line. Why did I stop to see her when I know there is zero chance of repairing the unrepairable? For my peace of mind. I don't want her checking on me or keeping me hanging on. Knowing her somewhat, I knew it would draw a final line in the sand and end this back and forth game. She doesn't want me, I doubt she ever did, but for whatever reason she keeps coming back to me. She's come back 3 times, and I've never been the one to instigate the comebacks, she would just slowly creep back into my life each time. What did I hope to gain? Closure, a chance to hopefully stir up old emotions that I hope will haunt her for years to come. Call it petty, but I do want her second guessing her decisions again, even though it's something that I'll never know the answer to. Knowing that she won't call again, because it would be a certain sign that she wants back, something her pride and ego couldn't tolerate or admit. And more importantly, knowing that it's "game over" for me with regards to initiating anymore contact; things have finally come to a sad end. I just didn't like the open ended nature of her phone call, and wanted to close that avenue off without blatantly telling her not to call me. I figured any emotion or anger I showed over the turn of events between us, would've looked petty on my end. So now I've handed the hot potato back to her. If you don't want any more surprise visits then don't call me to make yourself feel better when you get depressed or lonely. That was the first I had seen her in 4 months, and have the feeling that it will be the last, as there is no reason for either one of us to contact each other again. So the game is over for me, I just don't have the energy or the time to invest in a relationship that I already gave everything too. In addition, just the short conversation we had was a cold reminder of the chaos and turmoil that she would suck me into. Am I sad? Yes! Sad that she threw such a bright future away. But hey, that's life, and I certainly don't want a relationship with someone that repeatedly pulled me in and then pushed me away. I'm fairly certain that's the last I'll hear from her, and this thread will be the last you'll hear of me. Thanks for all of your input and support, and good luck to you all.

Wow Dan, I would've responded earlier but I've been living at work, doing 60+ hours. This reminds me of the first time my Ex left me. We had discussed marriage, having a baby, and buying a house together. Out of the blue, she leaves me to go back to her Ex abusive boyfriend. To show a window into how cold this woman can be, here is an excerpt from the letter she sent me: I didn't plan any of this - it unfolded, as you say, while I was seeing all the things I worked so hard for with him. I never led you on - I wore my heart on my sleeve at all times, letting you know everytime I thought of him when we were together. And in the end, whether I got back with him or not, it was not fair to keep having such feelings for someone else while I was with you. So contrary to your put-down of me not being a strong person, worthy of any kind of respect from you, my leaving you was the strongest thing I could have ever done. I did it out of respect for you, because you deserve someone who will give you 110%. I was smart enough to realize that all the flip-flopping I was feeling and showing was not normal. I was trying and hoping that my thoughts of him still were just transitional and I would go away, but they didn't. I kept trying to convince myself that I could just "snap out of it" like you demanded. But I couldn't. And now no matter how soon the "invitable", that you so insultingly warn me of, comes - I will have lost you forever. If that's not strength of character then I must be a total phony. And maybe that will appease your sense of vengence for "using" you. You were used, but not intentionally. I have nothing but the utmost appreciation and gratitude for your kindness, generosity, and genuine caring for me. I will always remember how special you made me feel, but I was not secure. If I had feelings for him now, what would I have done after you proposed? The guy she writes about, physically abused her, pushed his way into her Parent's house and trashed it, sued her 2 brothers because they beat him like the dirt ball he is, when they found out about the physical abuse. In addition, she had 2 abortions while she was with him, that have scarred her beyond anything I or anyone else can do to fix her. Dan, I felt like my soul was ripped out. In fact, as long as she is in my life, it's something that I will never be able to forget. It's also the reason why I haven't and won't contact her again, after she broke 3 1/2 months of NC. Dan, your Ex like mine is just plain bad news. The only solice I take from both out experiences is that they are going to make any guy they are with as unhappy as we were. Their behavior towards us had absolutely nothing to do with us. It didn't matter whether you showed emotion around her, or was clingy or needy, that's all BS stuff. Had you acted another way she would've found something else to not be happy with. These women are broken. They are the definition of self destructive behavior. It doesn't matter if they are with us or someone else, they will sabotage the relationship eventually. I don't want to be with a woman for which I have to strategize my conversations, my phone calls, and my interactions with her. People on here that are doing that are setting themselves up for big disappointment. Here's the bottom line. Be yourself, act naturally, and never be afraid to tell someone how you feel about them. If they take your words and feelings, and use them against you, they aren't someone that you should devote any more time or emotion on. These are not only the wrong women for us Dan, these are the wrong women for ANYBODY. These relationships are always about them, never about the other person. You just can't get love from someone that cares only for themselves. These women will hurt you in the blink of an eye, and hurting someone so easily just doesn't fall under my definition of what true love is about. Yes I wanted her, yes I wanted a family with her, and yes I would've given the world for her. But look what these women have done. They took good relationships and mangled them to a point where they can never be fixed again. Even though my Ex called, and obviously misses me, and obviously wants back. This girl would've never called to just see how I was, It was her way of opening the door again. But with that being said, nothing has changed, she hasn't changed, and neither will yours ever change. These are lost causes Dan. These women are in patterns of destructive behavior. They are like whirl pools that slowly suck you into their psychosis. Someone who loves you should build you up, not tear you down every chance they get. It hurts Dan, but I don't want her anymore, not like the way she is. Short of a complete epiphany on her part, I don't want someone who can't commit to me totally. Let her go for good, like I have vowed to do this time. I appreciate all of your advice and caring, and don't want to see this woman who has caused you nothing but pain, remain in your life. Good luck dude, it's your call, but these 2 women are broken!

Thanks Dan, thanks Napoleon, I see both points of view. I agree with both of you to just sit on my hands for now and see how it plays out. I'm of the mindset that I've been the one that has bent over backwards to try and make this thing work. For whatever reason, whether it be her abuse issues of the past, her depression issues, or her hang up on a dirt ball that caused her life nothing but turmoil. I know I can't save her, and the fact that she so easily casts me and him off for that matter, scares the hell out of me. She would pick up and put down the dirt ball that abused her at will, so this was not a behavior that was exclusive to me. It is a behavior she seems to repaeat with whoever she is with. I guess it hurts a little more when you've done nothing but show kindness to somebody and they mistake it for weakness. Never have I shown her a weak side of me, never have I groveled to her, never have I asked her back, never have I cried for her, and never have I let her know just how much she really hurt me through all of this. Napoleon, I agree, one phone call doesn't cut it; I'll take 2 as a reasonable attempt to open the lines of communication. Dan, you are absolutely right! I know I have to flip her mindset if there is ever even a remote possibility of this thing ever starting to get back on track. I hope I have done a little of that by disappearing from her life for 3 1/2 months. I've never had anyone I've parted with in a relationship, wait such a long period of time to re-initiate contact. I don't really feel it's my place to call after the one petty phone call she made. I figure if she thinks I'm worth it she will work for it, and will persist in calling again and maybe pushing things forward. I also don't want to get into that trap of if she calls, of not eventually laying the cards on the table. Otherwise it really just lets her off the hook and allows her to keep one foot out the door. I don't want someone who always has one foot out the door. I want someone that wants me as much as I want them. I'm not a doormat, I've never been; and that is what frustrates me most about this relationship. Even though I've shown great strength throughout, she actually tried to paint me as needy, which I took great offense to and blatantly pointed out to her. Thanks for the advice guys, please keep it coming, it's one of the things that really helps me out. I know Dan and I ahve very similar situations, so it is a great help to hear his perspective. Napoleon

Still confused as to why she "just wanted to see how I was doing". Damn I feel like I got knocked back a few more steps again. I had pretty much written this woman off. Why these constant games?! Sorry, just on a rant, the whole thing frustrates me so much. She has brought things to a point where it makes it damn near impossible for me to initiate any kind of contact with her because I feel it would be taken for granted, as I think I have in much of our relationship. I don't want to play these petty games with her, but I don't want her limping back half heartedly either. Confused as to how to lay it on the line for her. I played it too cool when she called, kept the conversation strictly on work. I should've flat out asked as soon as I heard her voice, "why are you calling me"? How do I begin to lay the groundwork to give this thing one last try? This last breakup was the longest we've gone without contacting each other. I honestly thought she had written me off a long time ago; I was more than stunned when she called. How do I play this guys and gals? I've never chased her during this entire relationship. When she said she wanted to be alone, I let her be alone. Do I call? What do I say? Do I sit on my hands and wait for her to call me? Don't know which way to go on this one. Advice much appreciated!

After 3 1/2 months of no contact, she called me to see "how I was doing". This is a woman who angrily had professed that I will never call you again! Why after all this time would she suddenly care about my well being? At the breakup I told her to go the F away, that she was a sick F for going back to a guy that abused her, and that she was really sick doing it only a week after she sat there crying on Christmas, because she thought that was the night she was going to get a proposal from me. I specifically told her not to call me the next time she got depressed. This all wasn't done to be mean, I had just rached such a level of frustration with her that it just brought things to a head. She was constantly pulling me in and then pushing me away. Things would be sailing along, and then she'd have a bout of depression and push me away. I'd leave her be by not contacting her, and then she'd call me back up to get back together. But in retrospect, all of her attempts to come back, and for that matter, her demeanor in the relationship, all seemed half hearted to me. I had repeatedly told her, that I don't want someone who doesn't want to be with me. When I step back and look at her words and especially her actions, this woman could've never loved me. Then why would she call after all of this time? She knows I've always loved her and always will. She also knows that she is flake and can't make her mind up whether that involves me or the abusive Ex she somehow floats back to. At the breakup when I told her that he was a sick F for the way he treated her, and that she was a sick F for going back, she proudly professed that, "well I'm not with him anymore". Oooohhh a whole month she had made on her own. It was sort of like a drug addict telling you that I haven't used in a couple of days so thereforeeee I've kicked the addiction. She hasn't called back in 5 days now and I won't call her. I gave it my best shot everytime and made it too easy for her to come back each time. The creepy part about it is that she started treating this relationship the same she did the one with the abusive Ex. She would basically cast him off for a couple of months and then she'c call hi, to "see how he was doing", and things would start up again. She started putting me in that role. Now she flat out told me that she is bad with relationships. Fine, then leave me alone. Why did she suddenly have an interest in my well being. When she called I kept the conversation limited to careers, what she was doing and what I was doing. She obviously wnated to keep the convesation short, so when she put a closing line out there like, "well I just called to see how you were doing". I said, "okay, well it was good hearing from you, take care and bye". Is this just yet another little mind game she is playing with me. She knows I would never want to be just her friend. Why did she crack the door open again with the phone call?

Urban, stay tough my man! Don't contact her, please don't contact her. You are going to make yourself look needy and pathetic, and she will lose respect for you the more you hang around. Let her go! I'm not saying let her go forever, but let her go for now. Let me tell you something. If she really wants you, and really wants to have you in her life, she will make contact with you again. You will not lose her over a mis-understanding, or for the fact of you think she is waiting for you to make the first move. In fact the opposite is true. If you contact her, you're not going to get the response that you want. It's not going to help you move on, it's going to hurt you real bad. Trust me on this one, I speak from much experience. I broke off all contact with my Ex for 3 1/2 months. This girl emphatically told me that she would never call me again. Guess what? She did two days ago. She didn't want me in her life, so I granted her wish. All the time I beat myself up thinking, "wow, I must've not meant anything to her, she won't even pick up the phone to call me". And guess what, that was the exact right thinking. I was okay with that. I looked at this way. If I meant so little to your life, that you can't even make the effort to pick up the phone and call me, then you aren't the person I thought you were, and I definitely don't want someone in my life who doesn't want to be there. She took me for granted Urban, just like your girl is taking you for granted. For you always being there, and excusing her poor behavior towards you, she puts no value on you or the relationship. Sadly people want what they can't have and in her present mind, she can have you whenever she wants. You need to take that away from her, and you do that by controlling your behavior, afterall it's the only thing you ever have control of. Turn your back on her, do not be her friend under any circumstances (if you still hope for a romantic re-connection), and grant her the gift of life without you. Think about the worst that could happen; she never calls you again. Do you really want someone in your life that won't even make the simple effort of calling you on the phone? Don't be her doormat, she willl use you as much as you allow her to. Stay strong!

DO NOT CONTACT HER! If you do you are going to make yourself look desperate and needy, two things that will scare a woman away for good. Don't worry about what was said last or who should've, could've, or would've done this or that. Any negative feelings she has for you will get erased by your absense in her life. It's just like that Cinderella song, "don't know what you got, until it's gone". Let her miss you. She can't do that if you are always there. The longer you hang around, the more respect she will lose for you. Trust me on this one man, I speak from experience. I'm caught up in my own little drama. I have a girl that swore she would never call me again, call me a couple of days ago, after 3 1/2 months of NC. I doubt my situation will ever resolve itself the way I want, but at least I can leave with my head up, my respect in tact, and the fact of knowing, that for her to swallow her pride and pick up the phone to "just see how I was doing", means that she must be missing me again. I don't know if she'll ever call again, that's just how she is. Her logic follows no reasoning. The only control I have are my actions towards her. I refuse to be a doormat everytime she gets lonely and starts doubting her decision to walk away from me, something that she has grown very good at doing. Look out for yorself, by confusing her to no end. Go NC and give her, her wish. Let her experience life without you for a while.