toonsy

That's hard for you I am sure. 4 years and you have not built any friendships other than with her? A very difficult thing in letting go is when you dont have a support system or something to "pour" yourself into. You have a challenge in your sitch but you can do this. You need to let go in order to create the room to receive great things. I speak from personal experience and my own journey - and it is not easy but it's a great thing you can do for yourself, and her. Feel free to email me.

You have "no friends" or "family"? Did you relocate for her or something?

No one knows what the future brings. You live life, grow and learn all along the way. But one thing that people know about me is that I realize that very few times in life do you meet people that really touch your life. When you do, you treasure that and not take it for granted. The comment about "not that into her" came from things he said about that relationship, and the things he said to ME while dating her. For me personally, If I was thinking of another man, flirting with another man, wanting to 'see' another man and fantasizing about another man while dating someone it would mean to ME that I wasnt that 'into' him. I suppose it's all that that made me say that. But again, it's not WHO he's with -me or her . As i've stated i've never been insecure or jealous or obsessed with his relationship with her nor expecting he and I would get back together one day even if a hope lied within me. But I think a better point you make is that he is "not able to be on his own". The best thing he could be doing for himself would be to work on what he needs to, take care of about himself, deal with his stresses and work on things he needs to. He seems to be going through some "issues" (I didnt really get into detail about that in my post) and he will not deal with them if "burying his head in the sand" as someone said. You can still care about someone and it not matter WHO they are with .

No, I see your confusion..... I have to make it clear, we have been broken up since July. We never "got back together" again at all nor did I expect it necessarily. So, this is not a "break up" or rejection issue or someone choosing someone over another. We both started dating others post break up....me first actually. He went back to her again, yes. But it was not about choosing her over me. The issue is because of her we cannot be in contact because she is insecure about me. The lack of 'face to face' is a hardship for me if it were anyone. Be it a friend, a relative you wont see for a while......anyone that means a lot to you that you have to be separated from. Yes there are feelings there but above all we have always expressed that it's important that we are in each other's lives even if we never "get back together". Our experience and connection we shared was/is really quite special. So not having that "face to face" goodbye (even if a temporary one) is just difficult. I have been in a position like this once only flipped. I was friends with a guy (we never dated) and his girlfriend was insecure about me.....just because I was of the opposite sex. He and I were best friends! Eventually it caused so much tension between them that I voluntarily told him I would not be in contact with him anymore so that they can aleviate the tension between them. It was VERY hard for him and I to do. We were great friends!! I felt a loss with that too but at least we said goodbye face to face. And actually.....they didnt last. So we are still friends! The hardest part is not about who is with who or if we get back together again (even though i do want that if it is meant to be one day). Its about losing someone important to you in your life. They may be together forever, who knows! And if he contacts me one day and she is secure with it I see us being good friends! It's the 'not knowing' if i will ever hear from him again that is hard.

Happythoughts - I am 34 BTW. He will be 37 next month (could be a MLC thing). This "rebound safe girl" just turned 26. Thanks all for your thoughts and words. Who knows what will happen over time. But this is about me now, yes. Just not easy.

OH yeah..and BTW - he didnt choose her over me. We broke up before he started dating her Dave. We were both starting to date others. 8)

Super Dave: We did not get back together when they "took a break". No one needs to blame HIM in this when I was a willing participant. I did not think we were getting back together in fact I stated to him that I didnt want to just "get back together" and it would be a mistake. Safety net? Yeah, you're likely right. And when I called and left that VM (as you can see) I said that as well. I appreciated everyone's responses and I think I have done all the right things this far and now the only thing I CAN do is NC. I never expected that we would just get back together again one day. I knew it would take time even if the situation presented itself. If I ever hear from him again I still believe this. I would not just jump back in. The "game" has changed yes. This was just a surprise and it's hard to get used to new surroundings. I wish I had the face to face though - and yes you're right it would have likley made it harder for us both. I think though that that is what is making this harder for me.

By the way......would LOVE some comments, support, input...... Thanks.

Well, it's been a while since I've posted mainly because my sitch was pretty predictable and I was really dealing well with everything. But within the last week I had a blow that I am having difficulty with.. In a nutshell, we brokeup in July though still very much in love. He'd never been in love like this before and it created fears in him that he might get hurt - but he knew i was "the one". He was under a huge amount of stress from work and a course he is taking until November. We agreed to see others for a while, take a step back and just see what happens. I contacted someone first, he flipped and got very scared and clingy. The night before a previously planned trip (which he was afraid to go on with me by the way because he said it would be too hard to spend 5 days with me and then have to come home and 'let me go' to another man) he was out drinking and called me. We got in an argument. I said to friends that night "Mark my words!! He will meet someone tonight! It's predictable, he is upset with me, scared I have met someone, scared to go on this trip and then come home to "let me go", drinking.... I just know it will happen." Well, it did. And WAY TOO predictable!!! It ended up being his best friend's girlfriend's friend. (And 10 years younger than him). Well, I have never been threatened by it. I see it for what it is. (rebound) We maintained email contact once a week, or once every 2 weeks at his request. He said it was important for us to communicate and try to build a friendship. We were not allowed to see each other though (her rules) because she was so insecure about me. I was honest with him, my other guy didnt make me happy since i was pacifying my emotions and I broke it off. I told my ex that I still felt for him and hoped over time we might try again if our paths crossed. He flirted with me via email, even wanted to see me once. He told me he "thought of me" and I could tell he was really torn about things. But clearly he was 'not that into her'. He said i could call if I wanted but i never did. Just emailed occasionally. One day he contacted me and asked me to come over and watch a movie. He said they "were on a break" and he wanted to see me. I went over and never asked what happened. We started talking more and seeing each other more - but not "back together". One night I talked to him about things. I told him I hoped we could just keep seeing each other, no pressure, and over time discuss what we wanted. He liked that idea and told me "just so you know, things are done with me and 'her'. It was a "break" in the beginning but we have sinced talked and I am done with it. I was pretty much helping her and supporting her....and she was ungrateful." He also said that recently he was around his family and he told them he broke things off with her. They said they always like ME.....and he told them that we recently started "dating" and "seeing" each other again. I thought that was pretty significant that he not only told them, but me. We spent time together over 2 weeks. Each time he seemed to pull closer and closer. I had to leave town for business about 3 days after the last night we spent together. While gone (about another 2 days), I emailed him to say "hi". His response is what shocked me....... He said he had been talking with 'her' lately and they were trying to work things out. She told him that she was totally uncomfortable about me and he said he couldnt blame her (even though we only emailed rarely). He said he was very sorry and didnt want to hurt me but said he felt he needed to give it an honest try so as not to have any regrets later. He said we could no longer be in contact though it pained him to do that. He said it was NOT due to a lack of feelings for me, in fact quite the contrary. He said he could not give me what i wanted or deserved at this time and was truly sorry. He said he wished me the best and that I am a wonderful woman and he doesnt want to hurt me. I called him. We talked for a while. i was calm. He admitted that he's learned so much from me and continues to learn about what he needs to do in a relationship. He said the feelings he still has for me and "clouding" his thoughts and thereforeeee cannot be in contact with me while trying another relationship. It was too hard for him. I asked if he loved her and he said "no......I cant say that I do. I dont know what i feel and I need to figure that out. I owe it to her to give it an honest try. She has growing up to do and learning to do that I am not sure she will......" I told him that it must be 'fun' being a little family (the 4 of them) and he admitted yes. He said lately it felt "awkward" to hang out with his buddy and his g/f without 'her' around. I asked if this was "goodbye" and he said he didnt know. He didnt really know what was going on and he needs time and space to figure things out. I asked him "....do you know in you heart that you and I will not have a chance again? Have you let go? If you have, please tell me." He said "....I cant say that, no. I dont deal in definates. You never know what can happen but it's not fair for me to ask you to 'wait and see'." I asked if we could see each other once i got back in town, just to say 'goodbye' face to face. He said he couldnt handle that right now. He was so sorry but he just couldnt do it, it would be too hard. I never cried. I was in shock. I kept my cool but told him again that I loved him and hoped one day we might have a chance again as well and I understood. He needs to take time and find what his heart needs and wants. I'll give him the time and the space though it hurts. He said he appreciated that and he hurted too. I sent him an email that night telling him again that it was hard. That i never though even for just a short time would we be 'out' of each other's lives. (We have meant so much to each other that we have always said we would never do that. ) But I told him I hoped it wasnt forever and time will tell. The next day I was at the airport to come home. The hurt was starting to well up in me. I texted him "I still want to c u, i am sorry but i do. you are eliminating me out of respect for her and i should be able to c u face to face." He replied "im sorry, I cant handle that right now" I flew home. Hurt and sadness grew. I started to cry for the first time. It seemed so unfair. I called him (shouldnt have I know) but i knew I would get his VM because of the time of day. I was crying.....but let some things out. Told him I was hurt and angry, that I never thought we would be 'here' and eliminating each other from our lives because we always agreed we meant too much to each other, that though I have given time to him to sort things out I cannot be his 'standby' for when something better doesnt happen.......that this really hurts me and I should have the right to see him face to face........it was not fair he did that with me so far away.....". Now I am dealing with such a feeling of shock and loss. I never knew if we'd get back together - i've been pretty honest with myself about that but I never saw this happening. What do I think is really going on? I think he is still very much in love with me but is not ready to experience all those emotions again just yet. He is still very stressed out. (in the last 2 months while dating her he has been sick 3 times). I think actually him eliminating me for her sake will probably make things even worse between them. I think she used 'me' as the reason as to why they werent getting along but now that I am gone there will be nothing to blame things on anymore. I also think he'll grow resentful that he had to 'let me go' for her insecurities. She's 10 years younger, he's been supporting her, and she is very insecure about me. Not a good foundation there. And frankly he didnt have too much to say as to why he was giving it another try other than he needs to "be sure" there is nothing there. I think he needs to make a clean break with me in order to explore another relationship without me 'there' to see if he still returns to me. Is there anything else there between them? If he gives it his all and still wants me and thinks of me......then he will "know" for sure to return to me. But as it was he was being pulled 2 ways emotionally it seems even though I was not instigating any flirtation and totally respecting his relationship with her. Long story, I know. I am just dealing with a feeling of "loss" now. It hurts not having seen him in person to talk if for the last time. I dont know when or if I'll ever hear from him again. He DOES need to do this, I agree. i hurts though. All my friends say ".....i'll bet they dont last another month. She is so insecure and young and he didnt have any good reasons as to why to go back to her frankly other than to just 'make sure'.....He clearly has not been able to let go of you and came back to you already......and admits his feelings for you still.....this will likely just prove it to him more that you are "the one" and that might be why he's doing it........" They are all likely right. And still I do not know if we ever WOULD be back together. His fears of feeling 'so much' are things he needs to work through. It's not up to me. He's 36 only been in love twice. Once in a marrige (6 years ago) and me. He said he loved me more than he ever felt before and it's overwhelming and afraid he'd lose me one day. I suppose we've all been there.......it's something he needs to work through. But.....this is a feeling of loss. I dont know if i'll hear from him again. It's a terrible feeling.

And the number one thing?? Do it with NO EXPECTATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!! No reply, no reaction...nothing!!!

I say 'no' on the small gift. Mailing something is more effort than an email, so it shows effort on your part. If anything.....just an email. Just 2 words. Happy Birthday.

I have a question...... What about good old fashioned heart to heart honesty? It sounds like you have already asked her to 'get back together' and her answer was that you hurt her too much. There is your answer! What does it mean for the long run? Who knows... What you need to do is regain her trust and rebuild a foundation like you would with anyone else that you would have hurt. What if it was a good friend? How would you go about repairing the relationship? Time and patience. I dont think she was out to hurt you, I think she was acting on the knowledge she has and the honesty she has already given you. She said she does not want to be with you (at least for now) so she really didnt do anything wrong by accepting a date. Maybe it wasnt the best ettiquete to do it in front of you, but she WAS honest with you. If you are not ready to give up, then be a friend to her. DO NOT pressure her. Only time can heal wounds (some maybe not) but that's all you can do. If you choose NC for your own healing then maybe that is best. You might need to separate yourself from her for a while so that your own emotions will not affect your friendship. I say.....be honest. You told her how you feel and she told you as well. Take it as exactly that. Being 'friends' with an ex can be challenging espeically if you want them back. I know.....I am in a similar situation. But I was honest with him about my feelings and told him I will not pressure him. If and when he is ready, willing and able to be together again we will. In the meantime we are trying to rebuild a friendship. No expectations. No pressure. For me that means that I do not fool myself that all will work out in the end. I still keep strong everyday, emotions in check, and put myself first.

I have to agree Tiredman. There are those unique situations. I am dealing with an ex with hidden abandonment issues. My going silent would make him "shut down", if i ever left the bed at night, he woke up horribly upset and feeling denied. I keep in contact once a week or 2 via email. He is even seeing a new girl. We keep it friendly. The contact is at his request. I could go weeks if i needed to with NC, so I know that I dont need it. I am emotionally sound with the situation. If anything, NC is for your own good. Get yourself centered and strong. The reaction of the ex? Never predictable.

Day 10 for me, but I would only send emails during work....so once Friday is over I dont worry about it until the next week. Kind of a mental and emotional vacation for the weekend. My ex wanted to stay in contact. He is seeing someone else but still really wanted to work at friendship. She however, is not comfortable with us seeing each other so we dont. I dont call him either - out of respect even though he says that I could/should. He did come see me over a week ago (yes we had sex, but mostly talked and laughed and caught up with each other)...but since then she asked to go "exclusive" with him. So now he says he'd feel 'weird' about seeing me as he doesnt want to 'cheat on her with me'. Hmmm......doesnt sound as though he's all that "into" her, huh? Anyhow, I sent him a letter telling him my feelings and that I choose to give him time. Others here might not agree but I believe in being honest. As long as you are emotionally mature about it and in control of yourself then speak your truth! I also told him that I hope to be friends too in the meantime. "My heart will tell me when to let go......" i said. I did not tell him I was going NC however. I have decided to go 3-4 weeks with no contact. I've gone 1 1/2 weeks before no problem. Kind of seeing if he'd initiate any contact before I did. He only did on my birthday. Even though I dont think he's all that into her, he does have a bit of an issue with initiating contact with me. So do I think i'll hear from him during these next few weeks? No, i dont. This will make him think though, maybe even 'miss' me. NC is for healing, yes. It's also a tactic - dont let anyone tell you different! In my sitch my ex is really the one that needs the healing (PM me if you want the details). He may not however. In fact the longer he is seeing this other girl he is burying his feelings and fears. If that will be his ultimate choice then I will let him go. For good. Is NC hard for me? Yes, but because I love him - not because I really want to contact him. I am not obsessed about what he's doing or how he feels. I know how he feels. But in the end we have NO control over what they choose. Right? Do NC for you, them, both of you, or for whatever reason you choose. But if you are doing it for positive results (whatever that may be) then do it right even if it's only temporary.

Scorchio: I have a friend who asks me all the time "how can you stand the fact that he is with someone else? Doesnt it drive you CRAZY??" I reply to her this: No! I see it for what it is. And frankly, him being with someone else could very much just prove to him all the things he is missing with me. It might seem good in the beginning but newness wears off. They WILL compare you to the new person. You would, wouldnt you? My ex seeing another girl is actually a chance for us. A chance for him to go out there, see others and then make an ultimate decision to come back to 'us'. And the fact is, he's been divorced over 5 years. He has never said "i love you" to anyone in that time but me. So think about it.....why would this girl be any different than all the others in the last 5 years? I know its hard but try to flip your way of thinking. See this as a possible thing to your favor. The worst thing you can do is to let those thoughts overrun you. Why? Because it will affect your attitude, who you are......and you are letting the situation control you. If if you DO ever have contact with her, trust me, it will come out in the way you act or speak with her. So not only is this destroying YOU, it will also affect and destroy any chance you 2 might have together. I have stronger days than others too. For me, it's only been about 2 months and I made the decision to go NC a week ago. Everyone's sitch is a little different and if my ex contacts me i will reply in kind. But I have decided not to initiate contact with him for at least 3-4 weeks. If I do not hear from him it will sting a little, yes. But I am also giving him the opportunity to miss me. And frankly, I am letting him be with her. Sounds crazy, huh? In the end I know that if he chooses to not come back, he will regret it in the long run. But I WILL be happy because I have done all I can and done right by myself. Be loving from a distance. Leave the door cracked if you have hope for reconciliation, but be sure to work at YOU everyday. PM or IM me anytime if you ever just want to talk. I IM to others a lot and it helps.