the_tiger_striped_cat

Tu shey (ok I know the spelling is wrong on that one ) You are absolutely right, so I'll point you to actual arguments: xs4all.nl/~wijnands/nnq/nquote.html I agree. But even if it was only learning about how to please my partner, that's better than nothing at all right? I mean we are basically doing the same things right, except I have this "girl on the side". So I can still read relationship books (I'm on my 3rd), research on this forum, and wikipedia (just looked up attachment theory), and date in the same way you do. So if anything I can at least say that it's not hurting me. If anything, I also will learn how to please a women in the bedroom. But I'm actually learning more about that. I'm learning how to treat her. To realize that she's different than my last gf: she doesn't want sex as much. I'm realizing how to turn her on and how not to say the wrong things. It's interesting to think to myself, "Should I say this, or will she take it the wrong way." I'm actually learning A LOT. But I think I've established that it doesn't HURT me. But I know you're not saying it won't help at all. I mean isn't there SOMETHING, ANYTHING that I will learn? Is it COMPLETELY useless? Hmmm. I think I see what's wrong now. I think this is what they call in philosophy a philosophical primitive. This is a premise, maxim, axiom, or call it whatever you want. But it's coming down to the axiology (value) of the actual act. You and I disagree here. I say that the act itself is good thing, and you disagree. But both of our positions are groundless. Neither of us can back up this position, I mean how could we? The closest example I can think of is if you tell me I shouldn't do something bad (pick anything you want) and I ask you why, you can't defend that, right? Luckily, people can dialogue because this is a starting point. But in our case, you say "it's not good", and I say "it is good", I can't go anywhere. All I can do is hope that you see my case by saying that I still have an emotional attachment to this person, she is a close friend, but I just don't see a future with her. But if you still can't see that the act alone can be a great thing, the final thing I can say is that, EVEN IF I'm wrong, and it may not be good, you still haven't shown it is bad (and remember we arn't talking about the implications of the act, we are talking about the VERY ACT ITSELF). You might get just as stuck though--it may come down to a assumed premise. I don't think it's rare at all. And actually, this is a PERFECT time to test. Can you imagine the temptation I could have to have sex with my fbuddy when I'm actually in a committed, auspicious relationship? It would be far, far greater than if I was married and just happened to meet people. I mean I've had sex with her a bunch of times. Can you see why it's so much more tempting. If I don't give when I still have the possibility to have a booty call any second I want, then why would I when I'm married, and rarely talk to this girl, and don't have a fbuddy connection with anyone else anymore. Yeah, I won't. Sex between friends is ok if both are mature, and neither is in a committed relationship. It in no way follows that because I'm having sex sans love that I'll want to cheat when I'm actually in a relationships. A guy could have a hundred one night stands and still appreciate the horrors of infidelity. But EVEN IF I'm wrong here, I take this argument to be so marginal and insignificant to be worth the risk for the benefits that I've already discussed. Now don't introject your reasons with my situation. I don't have to be lonely at all and still have sex. I hope you don't disagree with that? Even if it surpasses it by some astounding margin, it doesn't follow that the intimacy is nonexistent. It's still very significant, still significant enough for us to cuddle, and joke around naked, and have make out sessions, etc. If I have a billion dollars and you have 500 billion, I may not have 500 billion, but HECK I have a BILLION dollars! I should snip this, but you need to read it over and understand that I agree with everything you just wrote here. Now this doesn't follow at all. Settle? How am I settling? I can pursue love as much, or even more than you are, and still have this FWB on the side. How does one pursue love? One goes out and looks for it, right? You go places, meet people, online dating, SPEED DATING, meet friends, keeping your eye open. I'm sorry, but this is most non sequitur part of your entire argument. You could be at home 24/7 perusing this forum for all I know, and I could be going out every night for all you know. I met two girls last night, and one I actually might see a future with if she wasn't so far away, I'm going to email her after this. But somehow because I have a fbuddy, I'm not pursuing love? I mean doesn't this seem a little absurd to you? I think I MIGHT see where you're coming from? You're outlook on masturbation, alcohol ( you are 21, so it's not legally wrong, right?), and all this talk of temptation makes me think that you are from some charismatic or non-denominational background. If not, you're probably religious. I maybe wrong. But even if you're not, I'll assume it for the moment, because it makes a good example. IGNORE THE REST OF THIS IF YOU'RE NOT CHRISTIAN: I have friends like you, my best friend actually. We have interesting discussions like this one. I can see where you're coming from, because you have to follow the bible. I used to be the same way, now I do consider myself Christian (although you might say that I'm not), and I didn't drink until I was 21. But after much soul searching I realized something. If Hell does exist, why would I ever choose a path away from god? God is perfect, he is great, everyone wants to go to heaven right? So why would I choose a path away from God? You have two ways of answering this question. 1) I didn't know what I was doing --- but then why would god punish me for something I didn't know was wrong. 2) I knew what I was doing, but why the HECK would I choose a path away from God? Well I must be evil and destined for hell, there is nothing you can do for someone like me--I was born destined for hell. This is a paradox that I have yet to have anyone resolve. It seems that we should want to go to heaven, yet some supposedly don't, and I see no reason why anyone would actively choose to go to hell. Now realizing this liberated my soul. I view the bible and salvation VERY different now, all because of this simple paradox. I don't view what I'm doing as giving into temptation. I can give it up if I want to. It's not tempting me. I'm just doing it because I like. Like I like to eat cookies. such a loaded term. I'm not faltering, I'm eating a cookie. One of hardest things for a person to do is become truly free. We are all products of everything that happened to us prior to this moment. Free will is either nonexistent, or severely constrained. Amish raise kids who think like Amish. Japanese raise kids who think like Japanese. You could be a Saint or a gas chamber attendant depending on your background. So you probably think this way because of the way you were raised. And I am not immune to this either, all I can do is survey different beliefs, try living like you (I once did) and try living a different and hopefully understanding both. Can you fathom why someone would masturbate? why someone would drink alcohol? why someone would like to have sex without love? Only when you walk 1000 miles in a man's shoes.... You really think it's infinity! Wow, that's crazy. Then I wonder why people concentrate on other things, or why people do settle. But you no what, my argument still works if you weight it as infinity. I wish I knew a little decision theory because then I could explain this better. But take both of us before finding love: Me: Some nonzero number of happy points (as you've admitted) You: Zero happy points Now neither of us know if we'll find true love so I'm ahead if we neither of us find true love. The only way you'll be ahead is if you find true love (infinite points) and I don't. If we both find it then we're tied. But as I've established, I am looking for love as hard, if not harder, than you. "Satisfaction" huh? Doesn't that sound a little subjective to you? Even a madman can be happier that because of all those 1000s of oil wells he believes he owns. I can have just as much, if not more satisfaction as you, there's no way to judge that. Sounds as if your reaching for explanations. I'll give you all of this, because it seems as if your trying to "play the odds" here instead of taking the best path. Because I can equally play the odds as well, as you mentioned. So can a watch. What this hypothetical couple was dating for years, and his watch broke and he got hit by a car because it was a second behind? Got you on this one! But I have to admit something HA HA. It was on Opera, and I'll get you the episode number if you want. And it's good for your body regardless of who it is, it could even be with someone you hate! Please stop saying that I'm lonely or just "in the mood" because it's patently false. I'm not giving in, anymore than you "give in" when you want a cookie. No it really doesn't. You should be confirming your knowledge and beliefs all the time regardless of how many people believe in it. If I experience a miracle and it makes me alone believe in God, or if everyone in the world says the world is flat, I should question my beliefs ALL THE TIME, NO MATTER WHAT. The number of people believing something give no added weight to an argument that is the entire notion of. The reason that appeal to popularity is fallacious is because it lends absolutely NO support to an argument, if it did then it wouldn't be a fallacy. Besides, EVEN IF I'm wrong, then you're stuck. You just accused me of an appeal to popularity at the beginning of this post (that I admitted to). So are you wrong here, or there? You can't win both ways! ???

Hey muneca, I think a big thing is that she is not at the same place as I am. She's not dumb, but I'm in graduate school and I'm used to meeting professional students. I like people at the same level as me that I can use to make an intellectual connection with. And I think I'm not a match for her because she's still hung up on her ex. She's basically waiting for him to work out some things with her life, and they have some problems, she's really not sure, and tired of being strung along. But I really don't know for certain, but she is mature enough to know that we are not going to take the relationship to that level.

Shy please don't be mad at me. And I'm not saying you are. I'm just saying that when two people have opposing beliefs, sometimes the discussion becomes a little heated. I'm sure we are mature enough to discuss this without letting it get out of hand. Here's my response: Sure I'll admit to that possibility. Can you admit that maybe everything is fine ? Or maybe that's how internet discussions go. Go to usenet, they do it all the time. So there's no comminalitys at all, in anyway, among any two people. We are all completely different. I hope you see my point. I never said it did. But even you admit that the physical act "is really good" I never said you did. This is non sequitur. I could mentally know the difference between the act and forming a love bond. It does not follow that someone who has a fbuddy at a young age is more likely to cheat on their wife. Or at least I've never ran into that study. Danger noted. But I still don't think it follows, I could view cheating with grave implications. My parents were divorced, I know how imporatant it is to find the right person and dedicate yourself to them. ??? Who said intimacy isn't there? If we both think it's fair, then why wouldn't it be? One might say that if you were in my situation you wouldn't be looking for someone else, you would say everything you just said to me, but that I deny. Let me paraphrase you, "Why look for someone else when you have sex right here?" But in spite of all these "dangers" I'm still--after all these potential relationship killers--still looking for true love. Now that's dedication! I may not be saying my virginity, but I am saving my soul. Ok, that's good for you. Maybe it's just a different way of looking at things? Can you agree with that? Or are you still touting your objective, brute fact viewpoint. How about if you were as tempted as much as I am to waver but still looking for love? Maybe you can perdict the future . See below again, you're missing the point. Lets add it up: 1 sex with bliss = 1000 happy points 100 times sex without bliss then sex with bliss = 1000 + 500 happy points See I'm ahead. I know you'll want to dispute my weight of "happy points" but I think I'm being conservative. This is a bad exampe, but I hope you see my point. You make it sound as if you are in a utopia and I am in a distopia after we find love. Do you really think that after all the sex and finding true love that it will be horrible? Will it be half as good? I mean what would it be? I bet it's going to be almost as good after I'm married as after you are, if not better. I will perform better in bed and I can give my wife better pleasure than if I wasn't learning. You know I change my mind! I think that if you taste enough gelato you be come a conassour (sp?) and you can learn to make itactually make it! Not only do you have the pleaure but you are able to give it to others (and that's far more important). We're talking into the millions of "happy points" here . You ever see the timex commerical where the guy doesn't bump into his future wife because his watch is a second behind. The commerical says, "he should of had a Timex." You're right, I this relationship COULD mess things up, but so could wearing the wrong watch and I don't think theres a significant difference between the two examples to warrant a change. Not gluttony, gulttony is excessive eating and drinking (I'm serious, look it up). But gluttony is bad because eating and drinking is bad in excess. But 1) I'm not "pigging out" (remember the thing about waiting long amounts of time), and 2) sex isn't bad for you, doctors recommend it 4 times a week. And you think speed dating is wrong! Oh my gosh, we have to talk about this one! I think it's better than you think. Appeal to popularty is an appeal to popularity, no matter how you say it. Are you saying that people should of thought, "hmm so many people have slaves, maybe slavery is right." Appeals to popularty aren't even meant to get you to think. And why the straw man? I never said sex can't be used BOTH of the ways you listed. Maybe a little bit of column a and a little from column b. I'm out to go party, so I'll talk to you tomorow. Going to a party to meet lots of girls. And hopefully true love . Wish me luck!

People will say that you are able to control those thoughts and feelings but I don't believe it. There is only so much you can do. It's true that some are better at moving on than others. It took me 13 months and I still think about her, but then again I was in hell seeing her every single day! Get some sun, get some excercise, it will help. Some say it will hurt less and less every day until one day you don't feel it. Maybe. But I think that takes years. The other idea is that the only cure for a woman is another woman. And I believe it. You'll need time to heal and youll need time to find someone else, but aside from the pieces of your heart that you let her keep, one day you will be whole again.

The thing that kept me alive was hope. When you think you can't go on anymore give it a couple of years. Not being alive sucks. I'm still not happy, im just killing time. And it's slow time too, you basically just go through the motions. But even remembering back at those times, screaming out to god, I know I didn't do it because hope kept me alive. And you have it in you too, you'll probably say it's gone. But I couldn't see it either at the time. But it was there. Trust me, when your out of the dark waters, you'll wonder why it was so hard to cross.... don't do it man...

I BET YOU 100 dollars everyone on here is going to say, "just be yourself." And they will give good reasons too. There are books on scoring a man, but you're so young that I don't think any of them would work. Trying to think back when I was 13 it was very hard to attract the opposite sex, I was so clueless. If you see a cute boy you should at least hang around him. The way girls showed they liked me back then were to try and spend time with me, sit by me, stuff like that. Maybe you can give us some more info? Why do you like this guy?

It's been pretty much established in relationship lore that "we need to talk" is not a good thing. I'm not saying it can't be, but the odds are not in your favor.

If there was aything I was least qualified to comment on it would be this, so I'll only say my gut reaction. After a quick glance over your post it seems as if you are repressing homosexual feelings. The mention of the gf, the "i love" coment, and referring to your parents all seem to hint in this direction. But I may be totally off base, so I'll let someone tell me I'm wrong if I'm just reading into this. Sorry I couldn't be of much help.

HA HA! YOU GUYS MAKE ME LAUGH! How about a power sander! HA HA JEEZ. joking joking But thanks for your advice Raykay. I think I want to spend the money. Like many women this girl doesn't real have mind blowing orgasms and if it is possible I want her to have them. I scoured the internet for reviews on the Rabbit Habbit and they have all kinds of stories of girls who had problems coming now having powerful multiples with this thing (one blog entry said the girl discovered female ejactulation!) The girl I'm with views mastrubation with Taboo, but said she would be willing to do this for me. Well since her pleasure does turn me on, we'll just say she's doing it "for me" . But I hope she gets the mind blowing orgasms that others have experience. I wonder if having enough powerfull orgasms will make her receptive to them in the future--sorta like learning to use a muscle (like to move your ear). What do you think? Thank raykay!

How so? Some may say I'm actually learning more about it for my future partner. Ha ha. You act like I'm a sex addict. Why commit. Because I missing love. That's a great reason to commit right? Believe it or not, I don't objectify women. I don't even look at them that way. I happen to be with a friend and we both like to have sex, so we do. The leopard has no spots, your just seeing floaters. I would argue that I'm actually more commited than you are. Not only do I have a gorgeous girl thats a friend that I care about deeply, but I am still mature enough to realize that she is not the one. I need something more. Something that I am willing to wait for, something that makes me not get attached to this girl. So it's ok if I wait long periods of time. Well we are sorta doing that actually. I AGREE COMPLTELY. You know I give up meat every once in a while, or I'll abstain from various foods, and when I have a hamburger after not having one for a months, MAN IT TASTES GOOD! But neither of us know when were going to find someone to love so now is not the time to abstain. We're both looking, and I'm going speed dating in a couple of weeks, so we may not have much more of this. And believe it or not, I'm not a sex fiend, I don't go to bars looking to get laid, I go a year between sex if not more. So it's ok to hold off on the Mint Chip, but that's because you know you can have it. But when I was in Italy they have this stuff called gelato, you can't find it in the states and I HATE IT because it's sooooo goood. But you better believe when I was there I was eating it every chance I got because I knew I wouldn't have it again for a long time. Boy this ice cream analogy really works well! Well actually you haven't proved any of this. And appeals to popularity are the most common logical falacies: once upon a time EVERYONE thought it was ok to own a slave. I think that's more because I want it more than she does. But how many happily married guys don't complain about that. Actually, she is happy, we had great phonesex yesterday, and she'll be in town in a week. yeah I do have a problem about getting defensive. I'm sorry. I'll try and work on that. Ou contrair, it won't be any harder than before, and not only that, but my soulmate is really going to be happy in bed . But I have a great idea. This will be a perfect experiement to archive. I'll tell you what. If it ends badly I PROMISE to post on here as a deterant to anyone else in my position. And if it ends well I won't rub it in, but I hope you don't mind if I post up a comment that I found love, because I'm sure I wouldn't be able to contain my happiness.

Your way off base. None of it was true. I'm not close to 30. I hope not!

Who said I keep failing? Ever wonder hear of talking hypothetically? Tickle don't get mad. I post all over the place here. I've switched names so many times in the past. Just because I'm curious, just because I say different things doesn't mean I'm having problems. The reason I'm so confident after some of the things you've responded to here is because you have no idea how wrong you are. Just keep reading.

yeah I hope to give my girl some of the mind blowing orgasms that are talked about in the reviews. Expensive, but hopefully worth the price.

I understand and agree completely. But become liberated and realize that sex is more than "just a tool" it's something really great. I know you want to believe that sex is pointless without love, but that reasoning is a groundless bias because you happen to be with your gf. If you were 30, single, and lost love a few times with no love in sight you might think a little differently. Sex without love is not perfection, but it's still really good. So you agree with me then?

Topic says it all. What's the best vibrator? I've heard the Rabbit (not sure of the specific name) rated highly. Many reviews from link removed seem to swear by it.

Why settle? That's an easy one. Why would I not choose perfection? Doesn't that sound absurd--not choosing perfection? So either I'm very, very wrong here by not chosing perfection or you're missing the point. I think it's the latter. The fact is perfection isn't easy to obtain. Of course I'm looking for it as dillegantly as you are. But you act like we live in a perfect world. If it was that easy to go out there and grab perfection we wouldn't have this forum now would we? You're right Haagan Daz (sp?) is better than generic, but while I'm wating for the next Haggan Daz shipment generic--under certain circumstances--can be a HELL OF A LOT better than nothing at all .

im really not trying to be a jerk by pointing this out. But just so that you don't make this mistake again. You mean "here" not "hear"

I HATE this saying. As if the world were perfect and every breakup makes absolute sense. Sometimes an ex becomes an ex for one reason alone: circumstance. The world is not fair. If it were it would be obvious never to reunite with an ex, but it's not that easy.

guys I'm much older than you think I am . You like sweets right? Or maybe you two are the type that like salty things. You don't need this do you? Have you EVER ate junk food? There's no real reason to eat it, it's not healthy. Yet you do. Are you "giving into" your physical desires? Well sex/masturbation can act IN THE SAME WAY. Sure I could give either up at ANY time, but don't you see, you don't need to view sex with this stigma or constraints. The act alone can be a wonderful thing. And I agree completely that once you have the spiritual connection it is sublime, but the simple act can be as satisfying as eating a cookie--but much, much more special than eating a cookie! I mean don't get me wrong. I used to think just like you, but I realized that sex is what you make of it, you don't have to give into a constrained ideology that sex is ONLY special under certain conditions--just change your mentality (but your current situation with masturbation shows that you probably wont). I can still believe AT THE SAME TIME what a wonderful thing it is to make love to a wife, and ALSO how great sex is alone. The perfection of making love to someone you love doesn't make sex a horrible act, it just means it's not as great. But it doesn't mean sex still can't be really really really good with someone you still care about. You two are acting the same way a teenager acts when they are told by their parents (or at church) that masturbation is wrong. They act the same way. "Your body is a temple, you shouldn't do that, you only use your body in that way when your in a special relationship" But in actuality, there isn't a SINGLE sex/relationship expert that would contradict ANYTHING that I've said here, and I'm sure I could find hundreds of resources if you want me to. Just ask.

Every couple argues. And many think they have good communication. But most don't know what "communication" means. Communication is saying: "It hurt me when you did this" "I'm sorry that you felt that way, I didn't mean that" ..... There are better examples in "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" I can't really comment on your most recent argument, but I can say that you should work on expressing your needs to him properly. And hopefully he's open enough to work with you on communicating properly. Bad communication ruins relationships, and it's something that few ever really master, but those who do have great lives.

Sex is something mastered after doing it A LOT!!! He'll probabaly screw it up worse than you, but don't worry about it. Use protection (don't let him inside you without protection, as good as it may feel for him), make sure he's worth it (not trying to use you), and don't worry too much.

I disagree in part. I think part of it MIGHT be your fault. Has she ever showed a side of infidelity for the 14 years you've known her? I mean, if she was the cheating type, it's funny she didn't cheat on you a long time ago. This happens ALL THE TIME. Couples lose the spark, they drift apart, the women are silently sizing up there men once they have drifted sufficiently apart, and slowly hate them more and more. You might have been emotionally married years before you got the paper, but she probably divorced you emotionally months or years ago. It's a horrible lesson to learn. You have to realize that you too have to work to keep the spark in your relationship. You should have been having an affiar with your wife periodically. I don't think she would of wandered if everything was ok at home. If that's not the case, or if everything was ok, then maybe you married the wrong woman. But maybe too little, too late. Or maybe not, assuming you want to work on it. First off. Do you see any love left for you. It sounds like you have your work cut out for you. If she says she wants to be with him then it's giong to be hard. Do you see any love left for you. You can ask her, but women are good at saying "no" when they mean "yes" or "maybe". There's a book called "how to get your lover back" Darnit, I forget the name, it's something like that. It's good for people in your situation. But all this assumes that you can still win her back. If she's set on being with him, all you can do is wait and hope that it doesn't work between them. Affair relationship usually fail, so you have that going for you. Now although 80% of the couples who try and reconsile before/after impending divorce are unable to make it work, many couples are able to survive infedility. Whatever happens, divorce isn't the end of the world. I didn't read your entire post (it's so long!) but if you do have kids from this relationship work extra hard on them. I still have issues from my parents divorce. But like I said, you can still bounce back even from something like this. GOOD LUCK!!!!!

talk about the ex too much in a post and how you've moved on and I worry about you being in denial and jumping into a rebound move too quickly into a "better" relationship and I it seems like you have more growing to do. What happened to all the "i'll never love again" feelings. Were you just wrong back then? Just some things to think about

How many of you guys/girls masturbate out there? Why do you do it? Shouldn't you be looking for husbands and wives instead of doing that? This is my point EXACTLY. We have human desires. And if two people are mature enough (Switch sorry to say but if all of yours end badly, they were never mature bro) to understand their own feelings and realize that they are not right for each other, but still enjoy each others company, then these people can pull this "relationship" off as great as I am doing right now. I admit that NONE of these work out in the end. But why would I expect it to? Do you actually think that people can go on like this ad infinitum? All this about looking for another relationship, or looking for a husband/wife: do you really think that we aren't doing that? I'm going speed dating in a month! I'm sorry to say, despite some people's "it never works" attitude, I'm testament to the fact that it does indeed. I couldn't have proved my point more succinctly Switch

You have no excues not to take new pictures if you need to. The question is if you need to.... You want me to show you pics I have . And yes i've been to online dating sites. NUMBER ONE MISTAKE! YOU ARE NOT A FEMALE. I'm telling you. Go to hotornot. Guys with girls in the pictures get the best rating. It's pure psychology, and I have refrences upon request. If you don't get results, then you need new pics. Ipso facto. Hey, you asked if something is wrong with your pics. I say hold out. If you dont attract any girls, let alone the right kind of girl, then something about your profile needs to change. Yes there is, and you're still missing it . j/j