cruisin

Hi there Turboz. You know, I just logged on to here because finding people who feel the same as me or worse! somehow makes me feel better and with your subject line I figured here was someone who was feeling even worse than I was. Heh look, I know it's the pits and you're feeling like hell. You're 22 and say you've never had a girlfriend. Well, that's not so weird. A lot of what passes for girlfriend/boyfriend is nothing at all. And you may say, well, I wish I had anything that passed as anything at all. But you can be sure you've automatically been editing out those other possibilities and rightly so. You're no doubt looking for more and just not wanting to settle for less, which is what the vast majority of people do. I didn't have a boyfriend, or what I considered one, till after your age. Yet, when I think about it, there were guys interested in me but to me they didn't even count. So in my mind I'd never had a boyfriend. And I hadn't because I'd never even bothered to take a friendship that far. I had male friends and you probably have female friends. So stop getting so Chicken Little about things! The sky isn't falling. And don't think I can talk because I'm not there. I am there, probably more so than you. I'm a lot older and I'm in big debt. I work hard at work and get recognition but it just doesn't seem to go anywhere big. It doesn't seem to pan out. And just being dumped recently, though I figure it was for the best, feels like my life is just one big mess. And here I sit with a big work project deadline upon me and I'm crying and moping around doing everything but working on it. Now, is that a mess or is that a mess? So what I'm saying, is, your post was like a mirror to me saying, get a f@*king hold of yourself, kid! And now I'm going to say it to you. I haven't read your other posts but others say you have a lot to offer. I think you know that and it sounds to me like you're really upset because you're not getting the recogition you think you deserve. Well, the rest of the world isn't out there to give you what you deserve. You've got so much of what a lot of people would die for already. It's likely that the only thing "wrong" with you is that you're carrying around this big sign screaming, "What's wrong with me?!?!" Do you know how that feels to people, especially girls? Well, it feels like one big downer. It feels like the guy is only focused on himself when the only way you're going to attract people is by focusing on THEM. You don't have to be up, up, up and coming on like Mr. Go-getter. Relax and be a little down, a little shy, a little insecure, whatever. But cut the "oh my God, what's wrong with me" lament. Nothing's wrong with you but you're whining like an infant. I went through that stage bigtime when I was your age and then I went to India. I was out in the sticks where there was nothing and people curled up and died in the streets. And this wasn't your homeless, us against them kind of thing, it was just the way life was because there wasn't much to help people. Those people just had it a little worse than the people I stayed with, schoolteachers who were educated and still couldn't feed their kids because the food just wasn't available. When they needed a major operation they had to take a two-day train trip in (and maybe have to sit on the floor the whole way) and then SHARE a bed with someone in the hospital. That's share a bed not a room! I wanted to whine about all my love woes but there was absolutely no way I could. There was just no comparison and though the people may have been so polite they would have let me even I realized just what a luxury my whinings were. Living there changed my whole perspective on life, but there are times, like now I guess, when I need to be reminded. I remember asking this teacher there if he would like to visit the States or Europe and he just looked at me like I just didn't have a clue and gently said, "You know, that's like asking me if I'd rather visit the Moon or Mars." I really felt how skewed my perspectives on life were, having only known one perspective. May I suggest you get out of your world a bit and stop focusing on what you don't have. Think of some of the things you would like to do that you can do right now or with a little planning, and start doing them. Put the girlfriend stuff on the shelf for now since it's bothering you so much and stop banging your head against the wall because you don't have what you want in that department. Start getting a hand on all the other stuff that's out there in life. Believe me, there is SO MUCH MORE than just girlfriends! Get out and experience something in this world. There are people all around this globe. Go out and find them and then you can come back to wherever it is you live and have the same old girls reject you again if you like. I think then you'll find you couldn't care less. C'mon guy, get a little humor in there, will ya. Oh, and heh, thanks for the reminder.

Dear confused_soul04, Now I'm the confused one here. Just who is this guy you're talking about and who are these people who keep "popping" up on Yahoo. Sorry, but I'm not real familiar with all the things done on the computer these days. In any case, I think you should stop talking to these faceless people. This doesn't sound like it's the same as posting on this board. There are a lot of wackos out there who prey on lonely people looking to socialize on the Net. If these people seem to know you and you think it's this guy you actually do see then you HAVE to talk to him about it. It's too weird and I don't think it's because he likes you. He may have serious problems. I mean, if it is him and he can talk on the Net but not to your face, then he sounds messed up. It's not like he can't even talk about the problems, like he's not in touch with himself. The only problem is, if you confront him, he most likely will just deny it. I think it would be better if you could abstain from the stuff you do on the Net and then he'll have no other outlet to get his thoughts accross to you than to actually tell you. There's no use in confronting faceless people on the Net either. It's one thing to be chatting with people just to chat. It's another when they know you and won't talk to you. Really, be careful here! The attention may be "awesome" but it's empty and potentially dangerous. Get out and meet some real live people!

Thanks Azn_lover, I enjoyed reading your post. Sometimes what we all need is just a good talking to, not listening but talking to. I especially liked the. . .You cant have a good time if your gonna just sit there and be love sick all day long..... Sometimes simple wisdom is best!

Dear reborn, Yes, I can understand this schedule-following thing. Although, in my case, the ex moved far away and is not in the city so his schedule looks nothing like it used to and so of course I can't picture myself with him. But, here, when I do things that we used to do together I feel awful and there are certain places I haven't dared go yet. Certain places, like restaurants, I'm going to go to with friends so that I can make new memories. Going alone kind of just keeps you in the past. But there are other things, such as walks and so that I can't do with other people and yet I must do them alone (like walking to the station) and they continue to hurt, even though I had done them alone before he was with me. It's tough and it makes me angry that my world became so colored by him and I can't even say that there were happy memories because when I look back on so much I have the awful feeling that I was being taken for a ride most of the time and that so much of what he was doing/feeling/thinking was kept hidden from me. I hope you get through the wedding day OK. You'll probably feel horrible when you get home for the day though. But then I guess you know that. I really think you have got to try to take your focus off what he is doing if at all possible. You seem to be dwelling on him so much and it sounds like your contact with him is really hurting you. Do you think the small talk is worth it? I was doing the same thing with the email but when I saw him the other day I couldn't. He tried but I couldn't. It seemed so farcical. He asked me small talk questions and I could only say, "What do you care?" All my resolve to keep the doors of communication open crumbled. I was surprised at the hate I felt wanting to seethe out in spiteful retorts. It made me rethink the "keeping in touch" idea. I really started questioning the good in it. Do you think in your case it's still a good idea? Only you can know. Please take care of yourself reborn. We're all there for you and praying you'll feel better and better as time goes by.

Dear gm38, I'm happy to hear things worked well for you and that meeting your ex helped. That was really thoughtful of you to write all that up in the hopes that it could help some of us and I for one think it does. I just saw the ex and didn't want to even look at him but I think really it may be the only way to get over things. I ran from discussing things. Well, actually, the timing was awful and he was already on his at least third or fourth beer. Email and phones don't give you a good feeling, an accurate feeling. Problem with me is he's too far away to meet. But maybe I should just say, ok, let's not talk and correspond until we have another chance to meet again and talk things over. If he doesn't agree to that then I can be free of him anyhow. Really, thanks a lot for your long post. I love long posts. Good luck!

Butter_fly, Bravo to you for writing here with your feelings. No need to feel silly. What you're feeling is totally normal. Millions of girls have the same feelings. And I was one of them. You're doing great, becoming more of the person you want to be, taking care of yourself and being assertive and gaining confidence. Slipups, tests of life will happen all the time. And they're going to keep happening even if you're a size 1 someday. Size 1, my God! You do make it rough on yourself with a friend that tiny. Oh, and salespeople, forget them. Some of them are just so petty and problematic. If the store doesn't carry your size, that's their loss. If some salesgirl seems to be giving you those looks, just say (in your head if you like) "Oh, honey, get real! Look around you sweetpea and see the reality. People come in ALL sizes, not just in those sizes hanging in your measly hole of a shop!" Remember stores are there to cater to customers, to SELL clothes, so if they can't sell you something it's their problem, not yours. Go to stores who are there for all sizes of girls. Feeling good about where you are now is ultra-important. It doesn't mean you have to like being where you are but you have the right to look the best you can and feel the best you can no matter what size you are. You say your friend wouldn't understand but she might. You can always try. At least she can know what you're feeling even if she doesn't really understand it. I don't think she's trying to hurt you by asking you to try on cool clothes. People of all sizes can look good, but it all depends on how they feel. She probably doesn't think you'd look bad in the clothes. So give her credit. Being naive is a good thing sometimes. Feel good and you'll look good. Ok, maybe not to all people and so many people are stuck with just one picture in their head of what looks good but again, that's their loss. Those ugly emotions, whatever, don't worry about them. They'll always rear their ugly head in the future. Just go, "Oh, you again. Get the heck out of here, will you!?" Don't worry about why they come back. They just do. Brush 'em off. You know what's important. Good luck to you kid. Remember, there's always more than what meets the eye. If there isn't, well, again, those are the people who need help.

reborn, we really seem to be following parallel paths here. The questions you ask are the ones I'm struggling with myself at this time so I don't know if I'm of much help. I was inclined to go with Knctrnl22's advice and say, go with your heart, but I don't know, email and phone calls don't really convey the true feelings. Jeez, did I ever realize that when I saw the ex the other day. It was the first time I'd seen him since he dumped me and though I thought I was somewhat cool with everything after talking on the phone and by email, when I saw him I couldn't even look at him. I think this is why people say to break off contact, at least for a while. It gives you time to get on your own feet, without him. I mean, he wants to call me and be friends and help me out with work etc, but inside, I'm thinking, what for, what for, what for? And with email then I think, oh, why not, and I feel strong but seeing him, I just crumbled. OK, it didn't help that I was deathly ill with a flu or something and in the midst of a very difficult work project, and that he (an alcoholic) was downing free beer after free beer in front of me as if he were just a happy-go-luck fellow out for the day. The alcohol is something I didn't realize he had a problem with and I also didn't realize what being with an alcoholic was all about. Slowly I think I learned but not without a lot of thinking it was all my fault. Ok, got off track there. So, what I'm saying is that, from this last meeting, I get the feeling that I'm more where you are now. You call it the acceptance stage but you're wondering just what you have to accept and what you'll have to work with if you do "accept it." I think maybe, as others have said, maybe what we have to accept is the fact that there is nothing salvagable anymore. That it's pie-in-the-sky thinking to be imagining we can have some sort of satisfying relationship with him again. And yes, seeing him again made me realize how much I miss him (when he was being nice) and believe me, he was being nice this time. But I have to think of all the times he wasn't nice, when he had me in tears and confused and feeling so very much alone even when we were "together." So maybe just do the cool shoulder routine. Don't jump though you're starving. What he's throwing you is poisoned meat. And don't wag your tail and cuddle up to him either. He'll just push you away again and again and break your heart over and over.

Dear calibabe007, I'm so sorry to hear you're in such pain now. I'm going through a similar thing. I ran into my ex the day before last (and that wasn't easy because it was hundreds of miles away) and seeing him (he had dumped me and taken off) really brought back all the pain. I couldn't even look at him. I felt so angry and hurt and humiliated, and yet, he was trying to be friendly. Then he called trying to make me feel better (or I don't know for what really) and that just hurt more. Now I'm back home and feeling so lonely. I sit here thinking I miss him so much and I guess I do but I think I also just miss what I keep thinking COULD have been when most likely it couldn't. But, like you, I've got to move on. I don't know if you need strength to do that. Like other people said, I think you just need time. You really sound like you have some sweet friends. I wish I had them too but I don't as I was always occupied with this guy. I don't know if it helps but just know that so many people are going through similar things as you are. Even if you picture yourself right back with this guy now, really back with him, not some dreamlike fantasy picture of him, I doubt you would be happy. The fact that he's gone means you weren't right for each other. Even while I curse fate at times I do try to think there is a reason for the things that happen so we have to just trust in whatever powers that be. Your guy sounds like he doesn't know at all how to be in a loving relationship. Don't think he's going to have that with someone else. If you don't lose heart, you'll eventually come together with a person who can do that. Another thing, I think the phrase "moving on" sounds like so much work and when you're heartbroken that's the last thing you feel like doing. But think of it as just remaining open to real love and a real loving relationship. Don't think you have to go out and act. Just be receptive and it'll happen. So many people get embittered and hateful because they've been hurt that they scare everyone off. Don't harden your heart. Just turn the focus off him.

JoeyTrot, I find your situation interesting. I agree with hoppy26 in that what you did sounds like it really hurt someone. At first it looked like you were understanding the consequences of your actions and were wanting to change but on second look it actually appears to me that you are now being driven by mere guilt. The idea of thinking you could even begin to make amends to someone by emailing her after dumping her is difficult to fathom. I ask that you try to put yourself in someone else's shoes, to empathize and realize that all your actions have consequences for others as well as for yourself. One must always strive for balance in these consequences. Many people on this board are at the other end of the spectrum from you. I am not saying one is worse than the other. You are feeling pain too but both your pain and hers could have been alleviated if you had thought of the consequences of your actions for BOTH of you, weighed those consequences and THEN decided on your actions. Call her if you are truly ready to empathize but only then, otherwise your actions are again, merely selfish but done in the guise of caring, which will likely cause further hurt for your ex. And Swing Fox, the difference between judging and critiquing a person's actions is often a fine line. With so many people extremely hurt by the very same path that Joey Trot has chosen, I would hesitate to be critical of a poster's choice of words. Many of these people are NOT judgmental ENOUGH and thus get themselves into these kind of unhealthy relationships, only to be hurt again and again. Some of them are at last finding their voices on this board. Remember, you are a moderator, but they, through the nature of this board, are often the wounded, trying to recover and learn through hearing and advising, though their advice may be misguided, even wrong. But this interplay is what is so important, not the correctness of their words. Your "advice" to hoppy26 to "consider" this "something" in the future means to me that he should censor the expression of his feelings. It's this self-censorship, this self-doubt and self-questioning of one's feelings that so often leads to the perpetration of toxic relationships. People fail to realize they have can have a say in things. And on the other side of the fence, people are spared the consequences of their actions because they are spared criticism, even when harsh criticism is called for.

Dear 2clueless, I'm sorry you're going through this. I know it hurts. Actually I'm there right now and just last night my dreams were full of the guy who dumped me a few weeks ago and though I know it was for the better it still hurts. If trying not to think about your ex makes you think about him more then stop trying not to think about him! You've got to grieve, even if you're better off without him. And the only way to grieve is to go through the feelings. It sounds like you're trying to be too stoic about this whole thing. But one thing I would try not to do is analyze. Don't kill yourself thinking, why, why, why???!?!? Just scream and pound things, cry your eyes out, stop trying to be so rational and collected about things. But the constant questioning is torture and meaningless. Of course it hurts. Not having this guy in your life has left a big hole, a big vacuum and often, the worse things were toward the end the bigger the emptiness feels because you were probably thinking about him, him, him all the time. Just think about yourself and doing little things to get you back living. I wouldn't worry about other guys now. It's way too soon. Just think about yourself. Today I got back exercising for the first time in three weeks and yesterday was the first day I didn't pig out on sweet things. I would advise against talking to this guy. That could be the worst thing. And besides, don't give him the chance to hurt you even more but saying he doesn't care. And if he does care you're going to be hurting more thinking you want to be together with him again. Stay away. Get your life on track again and maybe it's been off track for a long time, meaning that you may have been neglecting yourself when you were together with him. That's always a no-no. Don't worry about whether he feels pain. It's not relevant!! YOU, YOU, YOU. Start looking in the mirror and talking about how YOU feel, what YOU'RE doing, everything to do with YOU. Heh, good luck. I'm doing the same thing so know you're not alone.

I think you're trying to cover too many bases with one word. I would describe things separately. There's no one word that is going to talk about character and appearance at once. They may go hand in hand but they may not. You might say "formidable" but that can have negative connotations. I would start with talking about the person's "bearing" and about them having a "strong sense of presense." Hope that helps.

At first you said you want a word that means self-respect but then you seem to be looking for something else. Give me some more ideas of what feeling you're trying to get accross. I think you want to perhaps describe the character trait that would lead a person to be well put-together, right? Or do you want something that talks more about the personality alone, or the looks alone. Perhaps if you give me some sentences with the word you're searching for left out (of course) I can help. Why, by the way, are you looking for a word. Are you composing a poem?

mordero, Sometimes the one you want is the one who's taken because the taken one is the one you want. And the taken one may be playing the same game. Be careful here. Listen to the very good advice posted already. One, it's easy for her to play with you, flirt and come onto you because she feels "safe." You know it's a game. She's taken. That may be her way of looking at it. Some people like wanting what they can't have. When they get it they very often don't want it anymore. If she is not happy with her boyfriend she's free to leave him. If she isn't leaving him something's not right, with her or your perception of what she sees you as. Leaving him should have nothing to do with you and her. It should have to do with her and him! Don't just be someone's excuse.

Heh S4il, just got done replying to your response on another post. Thanks and maybe I can help you out here. OK, because I don't want to have to go back checking the numbers I'll just say, go with the most direct but not aggressive one, approach and hello. The head's up thing is OK but you want more than that. That would make you look cool and aloof and you want, I'm assuming, a healthy relationship, right, not some chick who's into playing games with you (well, games of a certain sort, Ok, but. . . The picture is too much. I wouldn't put it on a CD. That's overkill. I'd tell her you have it and you'll email it to her if she gives you her address. Heh, there's nothing wrong with being forward. I love guys who are forward. Problem is the forward slimy ones. Just be forward and friendly. If you're getting good vibes from her ask her if she'd like to meet up sometime to talk a bit. Tell her you'd like to get to know her better. Simple stuff is best. Too much thinking always looks planned and too smooth. Hope this helps.

Thanks people for your replies. kdreger, you had me laughing. Well, now you may say you're not a cruel person but I would!! Just kidding. Sometimes you need that kind of stuff, the scenarios of getting even. I mean, although I often sound like one I am no martyr. The thing is, knowing I'm very capable of doing those things means I never actually do. The problem I think with getting even is it also kind of evens you out, which means you stoop to their levels. You know, it's the "I don't want to lower my standards to meet yours" kind of way of looking at it. I don't think I'll follow your advice though I loved it, kdreger, but I could write you up a great, loved-to-have-sent-but-didn't email! I could have fun with that! But seriously, folks, S4il, I think you do understand what I'm feeling. And by the way, I found those caps very impressive. Yeah, the hole is there and I don't really know what it's about. Probably just habit but I don't like to shut people off. I like to remain open so that I can learn because how else can we learn if not from interacting with our world and everything in it. It can be dangerous and I'm hoping I have the clarity to recognize the danger in associating with certain types and the danger in associating to different degrees with different people. I don't really understand this guy's motives. Yes, of course I thought of him just wanting to use me as a life-line, which is OK in itself. I have always said that the most valuable thing you can possess are good friends. There is nothing more important. And I don't want to be a hypocrite and say I can't be a friend because he left me. That's where the disappointment of his cheating comes in though and I'm struggling with my own not wanting to be hypocritical and where do I draw the line. I guess it is drawn in degree of distance. Also, he could simply be lonely, or think he wants to keep his options open. But I think I can honestly say that he burnt his bridge as far as anything more "serious" goes unless I saw him totally changed already. I think being with him helped me to realize that I'm throwing myself away and though I never like to think anyone is better or worse than another, there are good matches and there are bad. So, it's like if I liked a married guy I would now instead of having an affair with him be able to say, "call me when the divorce is final" not the other way around. The only question I do have here is, would I be keeping him from committing fully to a new relationship by being there for him? Ah, heck, I'm not going to be his second-fiddle or anything. And if his new girl isn't up to her guy having female friends then that's her problem, not mine. As for the email as opposed to the phone I don't think it's because of the new chick. I think it's because it's long-distance and not his phone. (He's staying at a friend's until he gets his own place, I assume with the new g/f). I suppose he would keep things secret from her. I don't think many women would give a guy as much rope as I do, but then, you know what they say about long ropes, right? It's very good advice about thinking of the outcome though. And I want to try to think of myself. This has been my failing all along I think, not thinking about myself enough. But then again, if I had thought about myself maybe I wouldn't have gained so much insight into life as I have now. Of course, the way I did it was painful and I hope I haven't messed myself up too much in the process. You know I knew a Japanese woman here who lived in Manchuria and when they had to flee, they walked out of the country, through all of Korea to the south and boats that would take them to Japan. She walked the whole way with an infant strapped to her back and people were dying all around her, dropping like flies. But she was made of tough stuff and she's the tiniest little thing you ever did see. Well, I asked her how that experience had changed her and she said, "You know, nothing, nothing at all was difficult after that." The danger is that you lose sight of what's good for you and allow yourself to get in a very unhealthy relationship and put up with it. I used to do that but I think I don't know to the same extent and that is probably part of the reason he left. Well, thanks for your compliments about my strong determined mind and compassion, S4il. These traits have also been referred to as "square-headedness, stubbornness, obstinacy," the compassion more often than not as "foolishness or naivety" but I have always tried to strike a balance with both sides having equal say. I don't know. When I was younger I was different but now I have a lot more accomplishments behind me and I'm more aware of my strength as it is today. What is strength, really? I suppose you could say it was determination with heart. And when you're young there's a lot of ignorance and naivety about the world. So may people it seems get embittered. But I've never wanted to be like that, with, like you mentioned, venomous feelings eating away at me inside. I always wanted to keep the faith so to speak, not in a religious way but in a much bigger, I don't know, spiritual way I suppose. OK, I'm getting carried away here. It alls seems pretty silly to be talking this way when I know that I can be hurt watching the evening news and cry at television commercials. But then, I think that's necessary too if we don't want to live in armor. We just need to have better moves that keep us from getting hurt by certain people, right? No, I didn't return his email yet and though he had called a couple times early on and I talked once it was just chit-chat and no feelings expressed. But like you've said, they've got to be expressed. Yeah, the everything-is-fine attitude really annoyed me. I had composed emails with no feelings and some with nothing but anger but didn't send any. I think what I really need is to find some sort of decisiveness inside that allows me to say, this is acceptable, this is not. You know, I just thought about it, but that everything-is-fine atttitude was something that pervaded my entire childhood. Everything was NOT fine but we all put up a good front. Maybe now I'm finally, finally learning to say, "everything is NOT fine and if you want to have a meaningful relationship, any kind of relationship, then things have to be discussed." Yeah! I composed an email but didn't send it yet as I wanted to hear your responses and I also wanted to sit on it first. Basically, it's newsy like we always talked but I've also put stuff in there calling him on things, saying, look, you want to be friends, learn to be one. I don't know, it'd be hard to say what constitutes a friend by email by I don't think it can hurt too much. It's up to me to set the boundaries, right? Well, thank you for your help. It really helps to talk to people on this board and I appreciate your advice and concern so much! It's gold.

I know this kind of post comes up all the time but please give me some feedback. I'm feeling like a shmuck yet at the same time wondering if I'm not losing out on something by shutting doors. My b/f dumped me a couple weeks ago and I found out he'd been seeing someone else for months while continuing to see me as well. He says he couldn't tell me, couldn't break it off because I wanted to stay in the relationship too much. That isn't true. But he always seemed to do my thinking without asking me first. I realized how timid he was and probably this had me wanting to make him stronger, bolder, as I have learned to be. But sometimes I'm not sure, is it timidity or is it mere "using" of me. This had happened once before (his sleeping around) and I said, "fine" but he came crawling back and I took him back, only to have him go back with the new girl and eventually leave town to be with her. Apparently he doesn't see this as being bad at all. He thinks he had no choice but to do it this way. Now, I admit, I was actually hoping at some point he would find someone who would take care of him because I just couldn't play caretaker to him all the time like he wanted. Everything was about him, his life, his plans. I didn't fit in anywhere. Still, I stayed in it thinking (laugh, laugh) he would change and become more independent when he found himself. He was trying to (or so he told me) change his life. He was studying and planning on going back to school. I wanted to encourage him, always be the one to encourage and inspire. He was going through a major upheaval and I assumed the problems and stress were part of it. I still think they are but he couldn't handle it and he seemed not to be able to handle me not being there for him all the time. He wasn't there for me so if I were there for him, where would I have gotten my strength from? It seemed all very one-sided and I know it showed. So, anyhow, he took off saying he respects me and wants to be friends but we were just too incompatible. OK, fair enough. I didn't think so but it takes two to make a partnership. Now, I could have dealt with that if it weren't for this other woman and the fact that there was major overlap and right up to the end. The deception disgusts me. Now, I don't have major problems with someone having an affair as long as they're upfront about it. I think we all can slip up. But this deception is what gets me. Then again, are people ever upfront about affairs? I left him saying, OK, we could be friends but I got thinking later and my anger started churning around because of the feeling of being deceived. Now, I'm getting emails from him, just short chit-chatty things that are actually pretty boring and no word on what's going on with his new love and him of course. It feels like a charade. I haven't written back but I feel I have to respond. Now, my question is, do I put my pride aside and respond to his chit-chat with the same chit-chat on my part or do I tell him to stop contacting me because the way he ended things disgusts me. But I have to admit that we would not have worked out. I say it was because he wasn't committed to things but then again, maybe I was just too much for him to deal with. Maybe I made him feel inadequate though I can't understand why. I never ever put him down and I always encouraged him. Maybe, though, that very thing is what made him feel inadequate. He said he couldn't teach me anything, which is so wrong, but again, I can't help him if he doesn't get over what seem to be some severe self-esteem problems. Anyhow, we always talked and talked and talked and he gave me some good advice at times. It may have been the wrong thing to have tried to take it into a serious relationship but he was going through a divorce and on the rebound and he professed his love and on it went. Then again, I wonder if I can be friends with someone I know to be deceptive. But friends, I suppose there are many definitions. Just emailing someone isn't much but I like to be very honest and would feel this were a one-sided thing. I'm trying to think about myself for a change but right now I don't know where I am really. If I write back chit-chat like I feel so false because I don't feel light-hearted about the end of this thing. I'm still quite depressed about it. If I write back angry and shut him out I burn my bridges. Do you all suggest I just respond chit-chatty casual-like and forget the past as far as trying to tell him how much I hurt from what he did and just try to maintain the distance I probably should have always maintained with him but I didn't know the extent of his problems in the beginning. Or do I even try to be friends. He's an alcoholic and I didn't know that until about a year ago. I knew he drank but I didn't know really what alcoholism was about. He has other issues too and I guess five years ago when we first met I had a strong co-dependency streak myself that I really think I'm getting over. I didn't have any experience with alcoholics or drug users. My problems I think arose from being in an overly strict family and then having to watch my mother die of cancer. I don't think I'm overly compassionate though (except when it comes to starving cats, earthworms drying on the sidewalk and bugs flailing in the water -- all of which I feel compelled to rescue!) Oh God, I think I AM doomed after all! So, what do I do, do I just respond to this guy casually, or not so casually but strictly as a friend or tell him to F off? Now, at least I do now know what I'm dealing with and I can take it from there or do I stick with my anger and feelings of having been deceived? Those feelings don't feel very good but whenever I get an email from him now I find it distracts me from my work and I sometimes start crying. Is that because it's still raw for me or is it because I'm not taking this situation in hand, one way or the other? I hate ambivalence. Sorry this got so long. I look forward to all your advice!

LuckyDuck, Don't beat yourself up anymore. That's what you're doing with her. Don't do it without her. There's nothing wrong with you, nothing pathetic. You were doing the most natural and healthy thing in the world, loving someone. It's just you picked the wrong person to love. Don't jump ship, get new bearings and change course. OK, I know it sounds easy. It's not. It's probably the hardest thing you can do because you probably have to learn just how to do it, just what it is you have to do. But you'll never get in touch with that if you start hating yourself. Look, going through these things are going to teach you things you have to learn. So, learn from them, don't shut down thinking you're pathetic. Try to keep a sense of lightness about this hell you're going through even though that sounds like the most impossible thing. Look, don't worry if you slip up and call. It's human. It's how you learn. Yeah, I agree, it's best for you if you don't call but if you trip up don't beat yourself up on top of the pain of falling. Just get back on track and try again.

LuckyDuck, Did you mean 'scared' or 'scarred?' I think you meant scarred, as in what happens after you're wounded. If so, yeah, I was probably scarred for many years but through more and more fresh wounds I was probably opened up and vulnerable enough to get some healing time/experience in there too. It probably sounds preposterous of me to talk like I know your situation. But I really think I do. I can feel your situation because I was there, believe me. I remember myself, years ago, in what you write, and it hurts. It's your disbelief at what people can do to you that hurts me now. It doesn't hurt because I'm being wounded. It hurts because I remember how it was and it angers me to see another person, innocent, naive, with what sounds like a heart of gold, going through this because of another person's inability to deal with her own emotions. Yes, I guess I was scarred even later because I continued, after the worst pain was gone, to continue this pattern with other guys, saying that I was strong and could take it and I could be there for them and that they needed me to help them. I didn't want to blame them for their shortcomings, even if they were hurting me. And you're probably doing the same right about now, not wanting to blame but wanting to always be there for her. Sure, it's not her fault she's the way she is. She learned this somewhere, probably in her past as a means of coping. But she has to heal herself and you can't help. Many people who are unable to access their emotions never are able to. Don't play shrink. You'll need one yourself eventually.

LuckyDuck, I feel your desperation and it hurts because I've been there and also because I have a strong feeling that though you're reaching out for advice you're very unlikely to take it, because of that very desperation. You're panicking, "terrified" of losing her and yet you HAVE done the right thing by wanting a "time out." Unfortunately, I think you're using this timeout period merely as a ploy to get her to "wake up" to you. Stop throwing yourself at her. She's confused, out of touch. Look at her actions, don't take her words to heart. When someone says he or she loves you but does something that indicates otherwise that is NOT love. Repeat. That is NOT love! This is something you have not learned and you are going to keep on hitting your head against the wall so to speak until you do learn it. Let the other person learn this and then they can come to you and into your life. Don't think that by you being out of her life she's going to realize her true feelings for someone, you or otherwise. This girl sounds confused and out of touch with her feelings. Only SHE can get in touch with them. You can't help her. You can't guide her to her feelings. Please listen to someone (me) who's done what you're doing over and over again, trying to "help" a guy like I was a therapist or psychologist. I kept doing it until I got so sick of myself, so sick of the pain I was putting myself through that I was able to admit to what I was doing. Work on yourself and recognize what you're doing. You DO recognize that she doesn't really love you and you want desperately to deny that. Don't deny it, don't deny yourself! Listen to your feelings. You intuition is trying desperately to get your attention. Don't let your panic grab a hold of you and swing you around. Try to grab a hold of yourself, calm down and LOOK, really look at what is going on. This girl is, at this point in her life, not capable of truly loving. Let her go. It's a horrible feeling I know to "give up" on someone, to "write them off" but this is what acceptance is about. Accepting doesn't mean being happy with the situation. It means seeing the situation clearly, for what it is and basing your next step on that clear assessment. Be brave LuckyDuck. Be brave!

simply_lost, I think you did the right thing and should stick by your decision but I think that NOT because I think he did a horrible thing. It's your life, your relationship and you have to be in it with a person with the same value system as you. Now, I am assuming here that this guy knew you wouldn't be too tickled by him having phone sex. Thus the lying and trying to hide the fact. The most important thing in a relationship is honesty, I'd say it's more important than trust. If you know what you're dealing with you are allowed the dignity of making a decision on how you react to their actions, beliefs, values. If things are hidden you are not given that choice. I recently found out that my boyfriend had been two-timing me for months. It wasn't until he walked out that I found out. It was humiliating and disgusted me, not his deciding to leave me and not his finding someone else, but the way he did it. He wants to be "friends" he says but to me that is an impossibility. I entertained the idea but after a while, thought, "no, why would I want a friend who deceives people and enjoys it?" We don't have to stick by anyone and even though some people do it doesn't make them better people. A marriage perhaps has more at stake and people may make compromises or weigh all sorts of pros and cons and figure certain factors are tolerable in light of other benefits they have from a relationship. But, in your case, it's just a boyfriend. You're probably still young. There are so many people out there. Why stick around for one who doesn't even add up to much in your book. It'd make as much sense as staying with a job that didn't offer you much. Besides, what was this guy going to someone else for sex for anyhow? If you're his girlfriend and you're in an exclusive relationship, then, yes, that constitutes cheating and what more it shows that there was something lacking in his feelings toward you, so you probably wouldn't have worked out anyhow. Sure, there can be rough times but these I think should be about things that are highly uncharacteristic, real flukes. You're still getting to know this guy so you have to assess the situation (and what kind of person you think he is) by everything he does, now! It won't help you to get married and find out he was this kind of guy from the start. Don't be too sad about what you've lost. A person comes as a whole package and there were obviously some other things in the box that you hadn't seen yet. They came with the deal and yes, as other posters say, people don't just change. And besides, it's not our right to be trying to change people. That's a big lesson I'm finally learning. Let the guy go and he can find someone who's into this as well. You can find someone like yourself who's not. That's true support. If you're being "supportive" of someone who's trying to change to please you, then you're not truly being supportive of that person, you're being supportive of your attempts to change them only.

First of all, Jason2201, you're not pathetic. What you're doing is very normal and very understandable. My advice is not meant to shame you into thinking you have no control and you're weak or pathetic if you continue to see this girl. I mean, after all, you can do what you want. There's nothing that says you can't be with someone who is with someone else. We're not talking morals here and I never would do that either even if it the general society would say it applied. The advice is merely to help you see what you're doing and as someone who has been there (many times) I'm just trying to warn you because I know the consequences. You may not think it hurts you. You may continue in relationships that hurt because you develop a shell and say, "It's OK, I can take it." That's what I did for years, and the same pattern kept reocurring. Now, you could say, "So what? If the same thing keeps happening you'll get used to it and it won't hurt." Well, it does hurt and the hurt gets worse because the circumstances seem to escalate. Right now, you're young and maybe your pain and worrying doesn't mess up your life too much but later, when you can't work and you have to in order to pay the bill, the consequences of being in a relationship with someone who is draining you will become harder to take. It sounds like your definition of what friends do and don't do is different from hers. That's fine. Everyone has their own lifestyle and ideas for the lifestyle they want but the two don't seem compatible here so they'll lead to inevitable conflicts. You say you want to be her friend but not her back-up plan. Well, what you call friend and what she calls friend are not the same, obviously. Or she is trying to stretch the definition, catch you so to speak with her definition of friend, when really you are just a back-up plan. Again, though, you'll only be able to get away from this kind of thing when you're ready to. I just want to help speed up that process by warning you. If I had been warned that I would spend so many years of my life wasted on the same pattern when I could have moved on and really had a great relationship with someone perhaps I would have learned my lesson sooner. When you keep someone like this in your life it is impossible to allow someone who is good for you in. You may find someone else but they'll likely be the same or very, very similar. Take it from an old hand. It's not worth it.

Jason2201, This girl sounds like she is either the confused one or she is stringing you along. I would beware of her. You may be setting yourself up for some major heartbreak. I really think you should steer clear of this girl as she sounds like bad news. But, I know it's hard, especially at this point and with her saying all these things to mess with your mind and heart. Tell us some more (maybe it'll help you see things more clearly as well). You didn't mention if the original breakup a month ago was mutual. or one-sided. When you say, "she had changed," just what do you mean? She may have already had this other guy in her sights and used that as an excuse. Her saying she loves you. . . there are many kinds of love but does she say how she loves you? Calling you at 3 a.m. sounds strange. I hope she's being honest about the reason for calling you at such an hour. Has she been drinking? Has she had a bad night out with her boyfriend? Telling you that you're everything she's always wanted, then continuing to see someone else and keep you at a distance except when it's convenient for her sounds to me like she's just using you to boost her ego but she's not at all concerned about your feelings. Really, ask her the same questions you asked here, but in a stronger way. Don't allow people to be ambivalent with you. Allow actions to speak not words. Words are really quite worthless. You're hearing the words and then seeing the things she does and they don't add up. This is what's confusing you. It would confuse anyone! But it's only confusing if you take her words to heart. Don't! Don't allow this to continue. It will mess with your mind. Don't make excuses for her. Speak your mind. One of my favorite images is the child in "The Emperor's New Clothes" crying out, "But he has no clothes!!" Be that little child and stay true to what you feel and express it. Don't be a sucker.

Hello S4il, Just read your poem and thought I'd give your some feedback. Without saying whether I think the poem is good or bad, as that is something that is totally subjective and why a poem means something different to each person, I'd like to instead comment on whether I think this poem is appropriate for what you asked, "asking a girl out after being friends for a while." I'd say NO, don't, or you'll likely risk scaring her off for good. Just a part of that poem might be OK but if I were her, and you mention, caution, "letting down your guard" and it being "too soon" then if I got this I'd feel like someone was trying to hunt me down and tie me to him. You talk about you thinking "it's time" and such but the poem leaves little feel that there's room for what she thinks. If you're just asking her out, then I'd slow way way down. I'd just say my feelings for her and not my hopes and fantasies about "us." Not at this stage. Hope this helps.

Dear AsIaN_lOvEr_BoY, Hello there. I'm glad you found this site and I hope it'll help you some. It's a very good thing to have someone to talk to. I think the first thing I'd like to say to you is CALM DOWN! All your thinking and worrying is what's driving you crazy, not this girl you'd like to get to know better. Oh, but IS that what you really want? for her to get to know you better? It sounds like you've watched her from afar and set your sights on her but you probably don't know her much at all, thus your worrying if she'd like you because you're Asia, because you're not from a wealthy family etc. etc. Whether she likes Asians or not is not the problem. It's your worrying about it. Your worrying shows me that you have more of a problem with it than anyone else. Remember, a person who likes or dislikes a person based on race, social status, things that can't be changed about a person, are the people with problems. If you try to win their liking you will only be complicating things for you. You will be trying to hide from something that is you. And hiding from yourself will always always always! hurt you in the end. Heh, man, chill a little. Think what you want from a friend, what you're about. Don't just throw yourself at someone like you're in need of charity. And don't go "releasing your feelings" to her and trying to stike a deal with her. You're afraid she won't like you and so you put off finding out. That's silly. That should be your first priority. Move slowly. Be friendly. Be cool. You'll get vibes from her or you'll get a total snub, maybe worse. But, at least you'll know what your next step can be. Let her get to know you and let yourself get to know her. Then you can start to think. Not now, you don't know each other. Just seeing someone from afar isn't enough. If she snubs you she couldn't be your friend anyhow, meaning, not that you're not good enough but that SHE'S not good enough for you. I would think you have standards, likes and dislikes when you make friends. Well, it's no different here. Do the same things. If you're all hung up on this girl without knowing her, you're not hung up on her, you're hung up on something you've conjured up in your head. Sure, she provides the image and maybe some things you've gleaned about her from afar, but the rest you're filling in with your imagination, whether you realize it or not. Get the facts, one step at a time. Each of those steps will show you the way to the next. Stop your wild fantasizing. It will drive you absolutely nuts!

amelie, That was a beautiful post and I thank you. I would think that would take a lot of courage to do what you've done, to really take a hard look at your past relationships, with lovers and with your family and then to be open about them for the sake of helping someone else. I am really touched by the responses I see and I've gotten on this board. So many of them, most all of them, really seem to come from the heart with a genuineness and a desire to help others, even though the people writing may be in the midst of their own pain now. And the people like yourself, who have been there but are now in good relationships, that is perhaps even harder to do, to make the effort to help out someone who's there now though you're not. Thanks to reborn's post, I am looking into codependency through the book "Women Who Love Too Much." I don't have it yet but I have another book that is a compilation of letters from who people who read the book and wrote to the author. I see myself there so totally it's frightening. It's very enlightening. This last relationship was perhaps the worst because it went on so long and I was willing to perhaps sacrifice more and more to help him. There were, however, signs of my getting better. I was tired of it always being, him, him, him and I was starting to ask, "heh, what about me?" Oddly, or apparently not so, this is happening in all other areas of my life. I had always considered myself independent and assertive and I think I was but I made very little room for my needs. I put them on the backburner. Recently, though I'd been getting to thinking, really thinking, just what did I want. I think this was showing up in many ways and is really behind this last guy finally leaving. The relationship was going nowhere but I hung on hoping for change. Why was I willing to hope? I suppose that's the hitch. I suppose that's where I have to look. And yes, I think now that it's sick although when I was younger I was convinced self-sacrifice was the ultimate goal. I never thought of myself as a caretaker though. I don't think I'm particularly warm or mothering but I do have a lot of compassion. I guess what looks like tough love, if it hurts the person giving it, is also a form of addiction. Being with needy guys, messed-up guys allowed me to ignore my own problems. I didn't see that as a problem though because, I WAS STRONG. My problems were nothing compared to his. I could deal with them later. That was why everything was logical. But it wasn't that I had no self-esteem and it's really why when I heard of that book, "Women Who Love Too Much" and the term codependency, years ago, I rebelled and said, "Oh, no, that's not for me." I'm very independent. I wouldn't let any guy take advantage of me. I was tough. I could handle anything. (This is what I thought). My attitude was always, "Sure, go ahead. Hit me with your best shot. I can handle it." The other thing, and you have to laugh, is I was thinking, "Well, it's not really about love. I'm just helping out where help is called for." I couldn't understand how my past was tied to bad relationships. My parents, though not very warm, were loving, stable people. But the problem I'm only realizing now, was how we turn situations into what appear to be very different situations in our own lives down the road. My mother became ill with cancer when I was 14 and the next seven years, until her death, were living hell for me. But I was not allowed to consider them hell. Everything was about her. And no one asked how we kids were doing. Well, I guess we were doing pretty badly but we weren't even allowed to acknowledge that, to have it acknowledged. Those seven years were a constant clinging to every scrap of hope we could and then some and then some until the end and the end was not pretty. Up until the last moment I held on to hope. I never allowed anyone to see my suffering, ever. People must have thought I was the coldest person there was. Actually it was the complete opposite. I was so torn up inside, so utterly devastated that it makes me cry all these years later just thinking about it. But again, what was my pain compared to hers? You see, that was the hitch, the question that I then must have carried into all these other relationships with needy people, not guys who loved me but guys who were parasitical. You must realize that my mother's illness was some years ago and people didn't even mention the word "cancer." It was totally taboo. So not only the person suffering from it was not allowed any acknowledgement of their pain, but anyone else affected by the illness, such as the family of an alcoholic. And come to think of it, that's the way it was for alcoholics and their families too. Well, this is getting too long. I just wanted to say that I'm finally realizing things that have been getting in the way for all these years. And I suppose that just because there are a lot of books and help available these days it doesn't mean people are all OK and open and helping each other. It doesn't mean that things (wise words, doing right by people) are just naturally getting carried on down through the generations. I suppose this is one area, relationships, life for that matter, where we, so to speak, HAVE to keep reinventing the wheel. amelie, thanks again for your post. I'm glad you've come out ahead on this one. I have a feeling Im going to be close behind.