cruisin

Heh Kinatra, Thanks for that great mile-long message. I printed it out at work and read it well but actually I didn't really read the very last part, with all those compliments till later. Is that how old people are around here? 18? Wow! For the record, I'm NOT in my late 20s. Glad you like my writing. What pressure! Well, I liked the part in your message about you thinking my BF was an ass. That went over real well with me, smiles cracked and all. But later, with that, "he did nothing wrong" . . . hmm.. . don't know about that. No, really, I understand about all the breaking up and finding each other and looking for "the one" (most definitely a Hollywood concoction) and maybe I didn't explain this in my post but he was carrying on with another woman for months and all along I thought we were really trying to work on things. I'd found out earlier and got it out of him, calmly said "if that's what you what" and was prepared to break up, but he came crawling back, literally, drunk like you wouldn't believe. Said he needed help and I said I was there for him. I always had been. But sometime soon after (I learn three months down the road) he said he got thinking, no, he preferred the other and went back. But this was done without clueing me in. And there was no "it's over between you and me." He was even more WITH me, you can say, though I felt there was this lightheartedness, a lack of his usual constantly rehashing things. I welcomed it though and didn't think anything of it. He was easier to be around. He was nice, almost considerate, light, almost optimistic. I really thought things were finally going well. Then I find out when he leaves town, and then only by acting like a sleuth, with radar going full force, did I get it out of him that he'd been planning his life with this other person all along. Now, I think that qualifies for a$$ho/e status, don't you? In any case, I am moving on. I can't be held back any longer by this guy. It would have been nice if I could have known that a ways back and maybe been working on things with a little more substance then they turned out to have. Heh, thanks again for writing. I wouldn't mind talking to you by email if you have an address. The answer/reply format is very good but a lot of it on this board is just about talking, isn't it?

I like that post by kinatra. It's true I think about having to look at what role you played in the breakup and that if you look hard enough and allow yourself to admit it you'll probably see where you were not right for each other. If I had read that earlier I couldn't have even entertained the idea of it but maybe now I can (though I still don't really want to). My ex called today to chat (or for whatever reasons) and I did and then he said abruptly he had to get off the phone and that was it. I felt so used, and so so stupid for having talked to him about things I was doing. But what the heck, his lack of consideration is one of the reasons we just weren't right for each other if I really want to admit it. He may be doing it innocently (one of my say-it-to-you-drop ridiculous excuses for him) but innocent or not, the end result is the same, someone would be likely to get hurt. Anyhow, I'm getting off the subject (you) there. Look at the facts sometime when you're able. If you were meant to be together you would be. Don't be a hopeless romantic. That's living in a fantasy world. Remember, Romeo and Juliet may be a great story but, don't forget, they're both dead! By the way, kinatra, I loved that Helen Keller quote. Thanks for sharing that.

I just thought there would be many of you who would enjoy this poem I found in Anita Liberty's Book, "How to Heal the Hurt by Hating." It's a great book, an irreverent account of her being dumped by her boyfriend for another woman. The book is sharp and I got some good laughs out of it. This poem is how she ends the book. I felt so good after reading it I thought of all you out there who may feel the same and wanted to share it. I'm going to hold it up as my role model! Enjoy!! ************ "Alone at the Top" I'm rich and famous. I want for nothing, because I have it all. Jealous? You should be. That's why I am where I am. To make you feel bad about yourself and how little you've accomplished. To make you realize the fact that you haven't realized your potential. I have a cool life now. Eveything is within reach and someone else reaches for it and hands it to me so I don't have to strain myself. I live this life to spite you, despite you, in spite of you. And now you're just a face in the crowd of upturned faces pointed in my direction. Because you see me now and know that you f*beep*ed up. How does that feel? That was my goal. To make you regret your decision to leave. You are not forgiven. You are not forgotten. You are not for me. See ya. Wouldn't want to be ya.

reborn, Sorry for the delay in replying but I was unable to log in. Now that's fixed. Thank you again for writing. It is so nice to check my mail and find there's been a reply and such an interesting one at that, not only warm and encouraging but one that gets me thinking. Here you are, hurting bad and you're trying to make others (and me) feel better. Now that's class stuff! Yes, I definitely think you're on to something when you think about a situation and ask, what was this supposed to be for, what was my lesson here? have I learned it? Those kind of questions I thought I was asking but maybe more often than not I'd think I hadn't found the answer or else I'd learn the wrong thing and these things would happen again and again. But, I must say, I really don't like the idea of thanking this guy. I know what you're saying, don't get me wrong. But I'm going to change the rhetoric. I think it's important, especially in a situation like so many of us on this board are in, where we're emotionally bruised, beaten up, broken, yet somehow still yearning for people who have treated us wrong, to think too many nice things about those people. I think the gratitude should be directed to fate or a higher power for bringing this opportunity into our lives for our spiritual development. And then, if we've gotten that far, to be asking such questions, we should thank ourselves for taking advantage, or at least trying to take advantage of an opportunity to learn. I think, again, you're very right when you said this situation I was/am in touched on something inside of me, something that needs to be strengthened. Yes, I can see how things have come up before, similar things, no, actually much worse. The stupid things I did when I was younger, the losers I got involved with. I would be embarrassed to show them to any of my friends now. But this last guy was the hardest test. I was kidding myself. He had me fooled, my family fooled. But you know, he may have had me fooled but there was so much I just was sick and tired of. Things that didn't jive. Things that were uncalled for. He knew I was very strong but he still tried to break me. I guess he got some sort of pleasure out of bringing down "strong prey." And this dumping and two-timing was his grand finale. But really, I think what I needed to learn to do was to put my foot down and say, "This is unacceptable behavior!" Simply say it. Be outraged. I was making excuses, rationalizing anything he did. But deep down I wasn't happy. Not really. Denial, rationalizing. It had gotten so easy. I do it in other aspects of my life but there too I'm doing it a lot less. Like in my earlier post I think it's all about asking, "What do I want?!!" and really coming up with answers not whimpering "Oh, I don't know." and accepting that as an answer. Well, this is getting very long. I better stop. Thanks again for your reply. I find your thoughts and advice pretty cool, deep and philosophical, wow! Anybody who would try to crush your ego is nuts I'd say. I do not think this fella who has hurt you understands his loss. But then, that's why people dump people. They are incapable of understanding just how valuable that person is. There is breaking up and there is dumping and incompatibility does not warrant dumping. But I wouldn't go thinking you're going to make him understand. I used to do that. Wasted effort. You know, you should think of yourself as a fine wine. An equisite wine that would have a connisseur in the throes of delight. But somehow, the label on your bottle gets switched and you are sold dirt cheap. You fall into the hands of a drunken wino who guzzles you from the paper bag, belches, throws the bottle in the alley and slumps down into a stupor in the filthy street. Now, realize, this is not what really happened. You're still you, still here, not used up. You're still there and there are those who would be very happy to find you if they just knew where you were. Put your radar out for what you want, not what you had!

james_cfh1, I've been in the same situation although I'm ashamed to say that I did take them back. Like others here have said, it wasn't the same. I thought it could be but now I realize it wasn't. The problem wasn't on my side though, meaning, it wasn't just my inability to forgive. The problem was that he was never really sorry for what he'd done. I thought he was. I thought he had seen the light. Oh boy, was I wrong. He was just seeing a way to have his cake and eat it too. Only now am I finally coming to realize that he never ever had respect for me. He said and continues to say how highly he respects me and though I say, "well, you certainly don't act like it." my problem is that I'm actually believing he DOES respect me. Of course he doesn't. But this is something so hard to understand because I DO have a lot of self-respect. Or I thought I did. But thinking you have self-respect and actually having it are different and so in a way I guess I'm like him. Thoughts are not enough. You've got to WALK THE TALK!

Dear reborn, Thanks so much for your kind reply. It really helps to hear from others who are in the same, or similar, boat. I know that book you mentioned. In fact, I think I may have read it, or read through it a bit in the bookstore, but I can't remember it well, and it looks like I still haven't learned my lesson so I'm going to get it and read with perhaps a mindset more conducive to helping myself change. I think you're very right about something in my past that is making me get involved with the wrong people. At this point, I am not only hurting from what happened, I am hating myself for having allowed it to happen. I mean, it wasn't like there weren't warning signs this would happen. No, what am I saying? Similar things happened over and over again and yet I stayed with it, stood by him, always thinking I had to be there for him no matter what. I didn't matter. I could handle it, and on and on. People talk about me being the most important thing but do you realize how alien a concept this is to me? I think I even say it to people though and in some situations I can do it but when it comes to certain situations, like this, I know that inside the statement is not registering at all. It's like I've been brainwashed and no doubt have been. My entire upbringing was about putting your own wishes, own desires, own wants and needs on the backburner, no, not even on the backburner, they never were even allowed. It was about thinking of others, never about yourself. I rebeled in many ways but I think this one area, when it came to coming accross needy people and me thinking I HAD to help them, has stopped me from having a healthy happy relationship and has done more to keep me from being happy than anything else. I AM much better than before though. In fact, I know for certain that I am much different from when I met this guy. I think part of the reason he is going out of my life is that I was not giving him the codependent routine he wanted. I don't think he's healed though because of the way he is back drinking but I can't care. I MUSTN'T care. I have to only care from afar and in a clinical way, like a psychologist. At least they get paid for it! Well, thanks again and I hope you too, reborn, find your way through your troubles. Reading lots of things is a very good thing. I'm doing the same (well, I've ordered the books and they're on the way). It angers me in a way that I have to do this, spend money and study and search for ways to cope and talk to friends and go through all this trying my best to continue to work, all because of him and my getting involved with him. I think this feeling may be a sign of true progress though. When I finally realize how much I am being hurt, held back, and disadvantaged by becoming involved with someone like him, I'm far less likely to continue it or to do it again in the future. Here's to a new ball game!

OK dextro, you made me smile. Nothing like shooting from the hip, is it? You're right, I'm being a total walkover. I'm kind of sick of the Mr. Nice Guy(Gal) stuff myself. I don't know why I do it. Upbringing I guess. Habit. It gets good reviews. . I don't know. Well, there was a lot of affection there on my part, at least there used to be. It got kind of hard to continue amidst the increasingly regular diet of less desirable behavior that was coming my way (I'm having to be real careful with my words here, otherwise I'll get all these *beeps* strewn accross my post.) I think I will pass the baton to the new chick. See how long she sticks around. Perhaps what this guy needs is a few less good people in his world. That might shake him up enough for him to change his ways. Oh well, thanks for replying.

Dear Everyone, I know this topic must have been brought up a million times but please help me with some advice if you will. I could use some personalized attention as I'm feeling pretty bad, drained and confused. My b/f of 5 years dumped me to go off with someone else (who'd he already been seeing without my knowing) but said he wants to be friends. I can't ever do this unless I'm the one initiating the breakup (and not a dumping). I never have done it and somehow feel that it serves little purpose other than to perpetrate "partial" relationships, neither I nor the dumpee I feel can truly enter into a new relationship as a whole. If they feel they need to keep a friendship with someone I think it signals that something is missing in the other relationship. I mean a friendship to me is different from just being civil to each other after a split. I can never move on unless I stop seeing and talking to the person I was with. Otherwise I am just using the ex to fill a gap in the new relationship or I feel (if I did not want the split) that I can't commit to the new relationship. So, this guy wants to be friends and I reluctantly agreed just because at the time I was in such a state of shock. I had to be strong, couldn't break down like I wanted to because I have to hold together to work and make a living. Now, he is calling me and leaving phone and email messages with offers of help, and just chitchat, and I get the feeling it is more for him than out of concern for me. I get the feeling he misses me. Which I guess is natural but he dumped me for someone else so shouldn't she be comforting him? I have always felt compassion for him and stuck by him, even knowing it was not reciprocated on his part and there was a lot of shit to stick by him through. He is divorced, a rash type who is disatisfied with what he has made with his life so far and is always trying to improve but can't seem to deal with long processes and the drudgery usually needed for such endeavors. He also has a drinking problem. So, these phones calls are the worst for me. They make me think he needs me and wants to talk to me (we always talked a lot) and so I once again want to respond to them. But at the same time, since I was dumped, they really hurt me. I think if I tell him to leave me alone he'll be hurt and believe it or not, I don't want to hurt him. I mean, it's just not in my nature to hurt. But I'm hurting and don't want to hurt, or maybe I'm just so used to it I feel I can take another blow to the heart and deal with it. You know, kind of a, chin up and "hit me with your best shot" kind of attitude. Then again I think also my hurt pride is getting in the way of things here, because deep down I'm afraid that if I tell him not to call because it hurts me he will stop. Then again, I think he'll stop because he doesn't want to hurt me but will be hurting himself and around and around it goes. So you see, it seems like a merry-go-round here. I'm the one who was left and yet I'm STILL making excuses for him and worrying about hurting him, and worrying that he needs someone who knows him so well (me). Can someone give me some advice here? I mean, after all, he says he's found The One, though I find that very hard to believe. He is drinking heavily and acting rash, which he does in his most confused times. So, I want to help him but at the same time I want to hate him. I am really the one that needs help now it seems and this is getting me quite exasperated and drained. I am a real fighter, stick-with-it type, the one who sees someone/thing in need and when everyone else looks aside, I'm there to help. I feel it's my strength but in times like this I feel I'm only hurting myself.

Myknosis, It's hard to understand what's going on in anyone else's relationship, let alone one's own at times! but when somebody leaves it's a horrible blow to anyone, especially when it's sudden and unexpected as you say it was with you. It's not right to do things that way. I feel for you when you say how hard it was for you. I know it must have been, especially when you go on to say you wanted to show that you were someone worth having. Of course, you were someone worth having! I mean, she didn't leave saying you were a good-for-nothing. She said she wanted to find herself. Please don't start berating yourself. I know it's something we all do though. But stop it. I think when people do this, which is really what this guy did to me just recently, that it's a sign of a lack of regard for the other, especially when the breakup is done so heartlessly, so cruelly. I don't mean a lack of regard because you're unworthy but probably just because the person leaving in this way is quite selfish. I'm trying to not be too harsh because I don't know the whole situation of course but from what you describe it sounds to me like you're throwing yourself away on someone who just doesn't appreciate you. If it were just a matter of incompatibility then there's no reason for the abrupt manner in which she dumped you. People leave relationships all the time, there are breakups all the time but most of them are done with a lot of respect, talking and a general mutual agreement, even if one party doesn't want the breakup. People who dump people have other problems. This is where I'm saying it's sad to see you trying so hard. It's probably not you at all so please don't think that. It hurts so much probably because it all seems so illogical. It is! So please continue to stay strong amidst your pain!

Myknosis, You ask how you think your ex saw you and yes, from what you describe I'd say she was very impressed. Who wouldn't be? That's why people come together, are blown away by each other. Because everyone is on their best behavior and only showing the good, strong, positive aspects of him or herself. My guy of quite a long time, with whom I'd been through so much with, just left me for someone else and he did that amidst lots of criticism of how I should be more this, more that. I didn't say anything but I could say the same for him. But whether it'd be nice if he smiled more or was more optimistic, more positive, more whatever, that's just it, we're humans and have faults and down days and rough times and weaknesses and I mean, thank God we do. Can you imagine how hard it would be to be with somebody perfect all the time? So, what I'm saying, is that you sound like you're harboring all this hope of getting back with someone who walked out on you, who didn't stick with you and obviously you're not some slacker. But you are human, so when the "faults" come to the surface, even if your ex was back with you, would she stay. Do you want to be with someone who doesn't stick with you through the not-so-strong, not-so-pretty times, but you have to keep maintaining a facade of perfection for?

ahh melissa, I'm in the same boat right now and though sometimes I feel really Ok and able to say it's best, he wasn't right, it was meant to be, it is STILL hard. I'm trying too to just do something more productive than sit around moping and going through the motions. But maybe that's just what you have to do. Coast along in energy-saving mode and let time heal things. What others said about not losing yourself is important. I'm realizing that now because I have no one to really talk to except by email. Because I was always with him and we talked a lot I allowed my circle of friends to be reduced to mere nodding acquaintances at work and so, not people you can call up and chat to in troubled times. There's only so many times I can call my family (who all live halfway 'round the world too). Keep you chin up. I'm trying to do the same. So what if the tears start to fall at times. Remember, you've got to be able to cry to really laugh again sometime too. I'm going to think of it as money in the bank!

Dear Nannie2003, I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through, and believe me, I know exactly how you feel because I have been there, almost in the exact same situation. Although you are likely not to believe me now, please listen to what I have to say. My hope is that it'll help you to get out of this situation and your heartache sooner than I did. You asked how someone can go from a "loving, caring, supportive" person to someone who totally turns his back on you in a cruel and heartless way. The answer is, and I know you may not believe it, but this fellow was NEVER, EVER, EVER a loving, caring, supportive person. However, he did and can do and will continue to do an impression of such a person, and his performance will be worthy of an Emmy. Please, please believe me because it took me 5 years to realize this, 5 years of seeing the same guy to it twice to me and learning he had done it many times to his ex-wife and once to the girl he is now setting up with. It is a chain and it doesn't end because it is never about YOU, the person he is currently with. It is about him and his sickness. From my experience I still don't know if it is something people do intentionally or deliberately or just something that clicks in their head and they go into a kind of temporary insanity and do it. Whatever the case, it doesn't really matter, because the end result is the same. You will be hurt. He is not hurt. I stayed with this guy through thick and thin, big-time thick and thin, because I thought his problems were related to things outside of him, his situation, his environment etc. etc. etc. But I see now that they're not and I'm not just saying this to make myself feel better. He will always be like that. I hear him talking about the new girl he is taking up with, the one he dropped me for, and though, in the initial shock of it, I started to blame myself and think she may be good for him, I got a hold of myself and really listened to him. There is no mention of love or affection even for this girl. I was on the receiving end of the same thing she is now and you were, the promises of marriage and happiness and how very very much he loved me. But something even then was making me doubt (the fact that he had dumped me to go back to his ex once before and then came back to me when she dumped him) but man, oh man, was he ever convincing. But he couldn't maintain it, couldn't maintain the convincing act because, after all, it was an act. Though I stayed with him, it was hell because I knew he didn't really care for me. But I attributed it to his stress and divorce and all sorts of things, but never to the fact that he just can't truly love a person. And now he's doing it again. Guys like this are sick but nothing is going to change them. They can continue and probably will be able to continue when they find a woman willing to be abused over and over again. This guy's first wife was unable to get out of the relationship for 17 years despite his leaving her numerous times, running off with others when she was pregnant even and things like that. So really, what it comes down to is, is this what you want in life, Nannie2003? Is this the kind of guy you want to expend your love on? Your love is a very valuable thing and not to be squandered on just anyone. I'm afraid our upbringings may teach us to give and give and spread love and that is a good thing. But remember, there are degrees of love and caring. There is the compassion you can show for a stranger on the street and then there is the compassion you can show for someone who would lay his life down for you. Learn to distinguish between people and then respond appropriately. It's something I'm finally figuring out myself and let me tell you, your love is needed by a lot of very worthy people. This guy is NOT one of them.

Dear drebar1, Thank you very much for your reply. Before I signed on I wondered if anyone would make sense out of what I'd written and here you are saying you could have written it yourself! That sure made me feel better, just your saying that. I'm also glad to hear you think it's not the behavior but the screening that has to change. In fact, I just got home after talking to an old dear friend who's going through very bad times and I think my talking with him really helped. It's the SAME kind of thing I did with the other guy all these months and years but that guy took it, used it and (though I wasn't looking for a thank-you) turned around and acted like I'd done him harm. Unbelievable! Now that is just not normal behavior but it's hard to think you can diagnose someone as mentally ill when they're out walking on the streets, but then again, where else would they be as long as they hadn't done something illegal?! That gives me pause for thought though . . . I actually recently saw his drinking escalate into shoplifting and now, that IS illegal! I really really couldn't believe he was doing this but it was true. Yes, getting back, the screening process must be where we go wrong. I have the feeling it has something to do with somehow equating criticism with intolerance or rejection. We may have learned at some point in our lives, no matter how wrong it is, that to say I don't want a person around me means I have rejected him or think myself beyond or better than him and somehow that is a big no-no subconsciously and so we fail to keep them away. And this last guy of mine was a real charmer. He's gone and charmed someone else and I just hope he'll keep charming them or they're really going to hurt as well. Over to you . . . you sound very capable and so I'm a bit perplexed but you saying you're terrified and don't know what to do. But when you say you're keeping sight of your needs and wants you sound like you'll be ok. All I can say is have more faith in yourself. You certainly sound like you have reason to. I'm not the same person I was when this guy first came into my life and I doubt you're the same person now as when your ex came into yours. Could it be that you are no longer in the rut but still feeling you are? I hope this is the case with me too. I guess time will tell. My worry is wondering why I miss him but I guess any change is hard to take. Your reply really did help me. I feel like blaming myself less. I was starting to think I was screwed up. I was starting to buy into his criticism and, you know, he really poured it on in the end. Yes, nasty, is a good word for him, needy and nasty, but so cloaked in a seeming rationality that it's easily bought into. I need to recognize that there are such people out there and learn to close off to them while keeping open to others.

This is the first time I've posted here and I've been scanning the Break Up forum because that's what just happened to me, quite an ugly ''dumping'' scenario that was full of lies and deception. It's very painful but reading about others' pain has helped, and I hope that doesn't sound like I enjoy others' pain. I think you all know what I mean. Anyhow, I have a question that has arisen from this last relationship (of some 5 turbulent years that had me sticking by the guy no matter what). I sensed there was a lot more going on than what met the eye. He had a drinking problem though and had been through a divorce recently and, to make a very long story short, I always was I think trying to ''fix him,'' trying to help him, seeing all his disrespect, coldness, distractedness, whatever negative came along as due to the stress of a very difficult living environment etc. etc. Anything nice he did I jumped at as a sign he was ''getting better'' and I stuck with it. Finally, to get to my question, the dumping on his part was cruel and heartless and I too could see that as his ''not knowing better'' or something like that. But what I'm starting to think is that there seems to be a pattern here and that is that instead of just steering far clear of someone who I very well see through as not being what I want, I steer FOR them. This guy came to me after his divorce and was in a lot of pain and I was there for him. I tend to be the compassionate type, but usually more with starving or injured cats I find than guys! I am very independent, even in the extreme perhaps, capable and professional. But it seems to me, AT LAST!!, that I am simply being used by people who to me seem like they really need help but to themselves probably don't see it at all like that. Relationships end with them criticizing me, blaming me for not being compatible and yet all along I feel that I have done everything to try to make their lives better and they have done everything but for me. Has anyone else seen this pattern come up in their relationships that soured? I don't think I have low self-esteem or low self-respect. But I'm starting to wonder. It seems I pick guys who I think need helping, and I'm going, ''it's OK, it's OK'' to all their shortcomings, transgressions etc. and then I'm dumped in the end. People say I deserve better and I agree but am wondering why I stayed in this last relationship so long. Any ideas what it is I have to wake up to?!