Modern Dating: The Evolution of Courtship for Men and Women

[Batya33]

I think in general youth is a priority for people who desire a sex partner with physical features that are typical of youth.  And for people looking for arm candy since very often a youthful look is more highly valued as arm candy. And for men who want kids but not right away and want biological kids under 30 is preferable.  I think that's not unique to modern dating though.

[yogacat]

6 hours ago, mylolita said:

Hey @yogacat!

 

No worries - I really love you opening up this debate and your perspectives! I actually think we may be on more of a similar wavelength than it might seem! 

Perhaps it was your experience as an exotic dancer!

When I was very young I wanted to get into that area too but I recall my Dad coming over and sternly warning me that he'd send me to private school. 😱😂 

Thanks so much for your other thoughts. So interesting! I will comment on them later. I'm feeling a bit relaxed and a bit lazy. 😅 and it kinda zaps me feeling up. So I'm just gonna' sit back and enjoy.😀

[mylolita]

17 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Perhaps it was your experience as an exotic dancer!

When I was very young I wanted to get into that area too but I recall my Dad coming over and sternly warning me that he'd send me to private school. 😱😂 

Thanks so much for your other thoughts. So interesting! I will comment on them later. I'm feeling a bit relaxed and a bit lazy. 😅 and it kinda zaps me feeling up. So I'm just gonna' sit back and enjoy.😀

That is so FUNNY yoga! Really!!!!! 
 

I remember deciding I would either be a stripper, or a nun. HA! I meant it too. ‘suppose I wouldn’t have been the first secretly non-believing nun in the world anyway! 
 

And no worries! I’m in the UK here and it’s nearly half 9 and I’m just having a bath with too many candles and some flowers in a tiny vase on the bath rack! 
 

Been nice bouncing ideas! 
 

By the way, have you ever done the Myers Briggs personality test? I would be so curious as to what you came out as! I know no one is absolutely one set thing in its entirety and we are all multi-faceted but, anyway, I find that test fascinating and always have done! My husband says it’s pseudo science and, maybe it is; I don’t know anything about psychology to really know! I’m pretty obsessed by the idea of it! 

 

Enjoy your relaxing! 
 

x

[Shycarrot]

Such a fascinating topic that brings out a lot of issues !! 

Also I’d like to point out that the book Why love hurts by Eva illouz, gives a thorough explanation of the pitfalls of dating and relationship in the modern era, compared to the previous centuries. 

Like it has been said in this thread, women got access to education and are aiming to get into relationship with men with a similar or superior socioeconomic status. Plus there’s this social expectation that they’re supposed to date men the same age or older. 
 

As a result, many women compete for the same men and in particular those with a high socioeconomic status. 
 

Besides and due to the sexual revolution, sex is no longer tied to procreation nor marriage. The author argues that men invested sex as a tool to assert dominance over women, especially because they could no longer do so in others areas (women can work and even sometimes, get higher responsibilities jobs, they become more and more financially independents, of course feminism gave them access to more rights …). 
As a consequence, men overcompensate their masculinity and tend to have a higher number of sexual partners to assert dominance over women, and others men who have less sex. 


Finally, a huge emphasis is put on the youth and fertility of women, which implies they have a shorter time window to get into a serious relationship and start a family.

 

That’s why many men are afraid to commit, and it’s the opposite for women. 
(there are others reasons, but I forgot them, I should read the book again).

 

Interestingly, a few centuries back, men had to pursue women, were eager to commit whereas women had to hide their romantic feelings and were urged to stay « cold-headed ».( If I remember correctly, that was the case in England at least)
 

[mylolita]

🤪

[rainbowsandroses]

I have had a couple of long term boyfriends tell me that unlike other women they have met and gotten involved with, I never allowed my "baggage" to negatively effect my spirit.  In fact, many never even knew about my baggage even though they knew I had relationships prior to them.  I just chose to not discuss or not allow it to negatively effect "our" relationship.  Others may disagree, but I think that's important.   

Work through your sh** before getting involved again, release the hurt, release the pain, release the baggage and start fresh with every new relationship.  Easer said than done perhaps but I think it's important.

I recall one man saying that with me, he felt like he was 16 again, sneaking into the movie theatre and making out in the back row!  lol   Our relationship had sort of an innocent quality to it, which of course is associated with "youth," except we were in our late 20s!

I think that may be why youth is so valued.   It's that freshness, that innocence, not carrying around "baggage" from relationship to relationship, lack of trust and a distrustful attitude in general that negatively impacts every relationship you have.

Even more than beauty sometimes IMO.  Because as stated earlier, a woman can be even more beautiful in her late 20, 30s and 40s if she takes care of herself, works out, cares for her skin, stays out of sun etc.

It's funny in my neck of the woods (SoCal), the young women I encounter, 18 - 25, are often overweight, out of shape, unkempt and as such, unattractive.  I have heard several men comment on this too.  It's surprising especially since this is, well Southern Cali!!

Not sure why, my initial thought is that they believe their youth will make up for it and carry them through?   I don't know.

But it shocks me sometimes to see it.

To me age has always been just a number, with no more relevance than that.

Except I suppose if you want children, then it would matter, but other than that, one's age doesn't hold much value for me.

 

 

[boltnrun]

Too many young people are eating crap and spending their days either staring at their phones or attached to a gaming console. No, not ALL young people. But I bet those unkempt, unhealthy young people you saw were staring at their phones while sucking down a huge Starbucks drink full of chocolate syrup and whipped cream (disguised as "coffee").

It's not necessary to be slim to be healthy but it IS necessary to eat healthy food and exercise to be healthy.

And that is totally off topic and has nothing to do with "courting", sorry about that. 

[Wiseman2]

39 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

 that is totally off topic and has nothing to do with "courting", sorry about that. 

It's turned into a virtual coffee klatsch anyway, no one will mind. 

[waffle]

Let's get back to looking down on people whose bodies aren't what we think they should be.

[Capricorn3]

Teeny tiny friendly reminder .... please steer the ship back on course. Thanks 😉

[yogacat]

12 hours ago, mylolita said:

That is so FUNNY yoga! Really!!!!! 
 

I remember deciding I would either be a stripper, or a nun. HA! I meant it too. ‘suppose I wouldn’t have been the first secretly non-believing nun in the world anyway! 
 

And no worries! I’m in the UK here and it’s nearly half 9 and I’m just having a bath with too many candles and some flowers in a tiny vase on the bath rack! 
 

Been nice bouncing ideas! 
 

By the way, have you ever done the Myers Briggs personality test? I would be so curious as to what you came out as! I know no one is absolutely one set thing in its entirety and we are all multi-faceted but, anyway, I find that test fascinating and always have done! My husband says it’s pseudo science and, maybe it is; I don’t know anything about psychology to really know! I’m pretty obsessed by the idea of it! 

 

Enjoy your relaxing! 
 

x

Thank you. 🙂

Nun or stripper.  Such polar opposites, yet, depending on what triggers what part of your psych, they could be both… intriguing. Symbols of purity and the allure of… poles. 🙂

As for the Myers Briggs test, yes, I have taken it a few times and my type always comes out as IS something or another. I can't quite remember the exact combination, but it usually falls under the category of "Introverted Sensing."

So I was curious about this courting thing. I am not in the dating scene, so my perspective might be completely off. It's unfortunate that not too many men chimed in on this thread, it would be interesting to hear their perspective. 

Maybe it's because dating has become such a complicated and confusing dance these days?

But some aspects of courting still exist, in my opinion. The idea of taking the time to get to know someone, to show them respect and go out of your way to make them feel special and appreciated, can still be found in many relationships.

It's just harder to find because there are so many different types of relationships and connections being formed. From casual hookups to friends with benefits to committed monogamy, people are choosing what works best for them. And in many cases, it doesn't involve traditional courtship.

[MrMan1983]

20 hours ago, mylolita said:

Hi Mr! 
 

I feel this is true in some cases of course and I definitely can relate to the pursuit of perfection and its pitfalls myself in many aspects of my life; not just relationships! 
 

Thanks for chiming in! 
 

Are you single now or happily settled? How did the hunt go for you? 🥲

 

I am far from an English picnic so within reason, I wouldn’t expect it from my husband. There’s been plenty we’ve fought over; and fought very hard. We’re the same in many respects but in some areas, drastically different. It adds spark and push and pull but can also cause conflict if I don’t keep my emotions in check! 
 

I feel like on reflection, a good sign of a “forever” relationship is if someone’s personality and character strengthens and inspires where you are weak, and yours to them, vice versa. A meeting of minds as well. You have to be on the same page for the “Big Picture”. Ying to the yang, and all of that good stuff! Being best friends is also an essential I think. I’ve never had a female best friend in my adult life because my best friend is my husband! If you feel heard and understood by someone, and supported in the unique ways you need to be supported, the chemistry and the sensitivity and the energy and will to work through the hard times will come naturally! 
 

I’ve become so interested in long term happy couples that maybe awkwardly; I often ask couples I know what their advice/secret is! Yesterday; I had my Aunty and Uncle round who have been married for 53 years. I asked them, they both laughed! My Aunt quickly said, “A patient wife!” And then my Uncle, who is a retired tribunal Judge, added, “A patient husband!”

 

I thought that was so cute! And there is probably a lot of truth in just that simple, off the cuff statement. Even there, you could see their sense of humour bounced off each other and they didn’t even make any eye contact the whole time! Very endearing and really great to hear, I can’t get enough of that kinda stuff! 
 

x

Yes I love speaking with couples who have lasted so many years, my parents are in their 70s and been happily married since they were around 20, both my brother and sister have been married happily for 25 years now too. Hell even my nieces and nephews are starting to get married! So I have been surrounded by it however sadly never found it for myself and had a different childhood/teens to them. Interestingly they all grew up as Christians and bro/sister met their other halves via the church so there's something that can be said for traditional values sometimes whereas I deviated away from the church thing in my early teens.

In regards to your question I'm single, overly choosy, and admittedly unhappy with my current situation at the age of 41. I'm also feeling rather stuck/hopeless but at the same time in a dating hiatus because I got tired of  it (at least temporarily). The either me not being interested/feeling enough of a spark and having to let nice people down (which makes me feel bad) or the other way round happens and I like them yet it gets to 2/3 dates before they disappear or their other hundred options come into play and it started wearing on my mental health. The problem is I'm no happier sitting on the shelf either especially in my early 40s and not getting any younger.

I do have a couple of 'casual' options, one being a lovely girl in her 20s (spoke about her a while back on here) who I actually would date, we get on like a house on fire however as far as I can tell she's not looking for anything serious and that does not do me much good in the longer run outside of some nice company/fun from time to time.

Guess I'll get back on the horse again in a few weeks.

As @rainbowsandroses would say, time for a run I think!!

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Too many young people are eating crap and spending their days either staring at their phones or attached to a gaming console. No, not ALL young people. But I bet those unkempt, unhealthy young people you saw were staring at their phones while sucking down a huge Starbucks drink full of chocolate syrup and whipped cream (disguised as "coffee").

It's not necessary to be slim to be healthy but it IS necessary to eat healthy food and exercise to be healthy.

And that is totally off topic and has nothing to do with "courting", sorry about that. 

But it kind of does - being in good health - especially keeping fit -moving around/exercise - helps with so much including motivation to date/sex drive etc.  That stuff isn't coffee. It's a hot beverage and often has more calories than an entire meal I typically eat.  I add some milk.  No sugar.  My mom taught me that when I was young - back then you tried coffee much earlier!  She gave up sugar in her coffee.  

Also - when I met for coffee at a starbucks type place my coffee was around $2 because it was plain so if the first meet guy paid -it felt fine -often I'd simply say -oh I'll go up and order and ask what he wanted and pay if needed. No biggie. 

I am not athletic but am into fitness so if I were dating now I couldn't be with someone who didn't enjoy long brisk walks or hiking while on vacation/walking to explore - and that does require  a level of good health/fitness.

I agree that there are slim people who are unhealthy and people who are not and are.  

[boltnrun]

That's why the whole "Netflix and chill" thing is such a turn off for me. That's not an activity! It's not a date. It's lazy and uninspired. As part of an already established relationship? Of course, why not? But a new dating situation? Not for me. Let's go DO something. Not laze around on your couch. And if you want sex, try wooing me. Don't lure me onto your couch under false pretenses so you can try to "go in for a kiss". Blech. Let's go for a walk at a botanical garden or a hike to a beautiful waterfall or go see a live show and kiss me next to the waterfall or under the cherry blossoms or during intermission while we're sharing a cocktail. Be imaginative, not lazy.

[yogacat]

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

That's why the whole "Netflix and chill" thing is such a turn off for me. That's not an activity! It's not a date. It's lazy and uninspired. As part of an already established relationship? Of course, why not? But a new dating situation? Not for me. Let's go DO something. Not laze around on your couch. And if you want sex, try wooing me. Don't lure me onto your couch under false pretenses so you can try to "go in for a kiss". Blech. Let's go for a walk at a botanical garden or a hike to a beautiful waterfall or go see a live show and kiss me next to the waterfall or under the cherry blossoms or during intermission while we're sharing a cocktail. Be imaginative, not lazy.

The whole Netflix and chill thing are the lazy cousin of something a little bit less common: grabbing a milkshake at 11 o’clock at night.

Milkshake-dating is a special thing.😄

It’s not forced. You’re not meeting each other in the gym or being set up by your mom’s neighbors’ nephew. It’s just an idea that evolves organically.

It’s real, and it’s happening.

There’s nothing inherently scary about Netflix and chill. You’ve convinced her to watch a VH1 special rather than marathoning Friends for the third time. Way to go.

But a vortex of dates that don’t revolve around tequila and expensive dinners can leave you feeling like you’re grasping at straws. I've had many first dates and apart from one, they have been positive and typically at a restaurant. They offered, I offered to share some of the check, they decline.

Sure, those things are great. But what’s so special about pulling off a well-oiled date with a restaurant reservation?

I'd say out of 20 first dates I may have felt enough of a pull and similar visions with 2 of these guys.

In mastered conversation and speedy wine ordering, what value are you really showing her? That you can understand how deep the 41-item à la carte seafood menu is?

Wallets naturally aren't endless, and it probably can’t afford to keep taking Swedish twin blondes to Lobster anywhere.

The alternative, Netflix in Chill early on, is just a convenient 21st-century version of the quintessential milkshake at the local drive-in nearby with the possibility to snuggle right up and move right to some heavy making out sessions.

When I say casually dating, I don't necessarily think that always must include sex. But honestly, if you two have an amazing time on your first couple dates out, then the next natural chunk of time hanging out should leave room for coffee, I guess.

I was amused when one man tried to Netflix and Chill me on a date, I was like "he just tried to Netflix and Chill me lol" but we ended up going out publicly two times but have nothing in common and stopped chatting.

But yeah, Netflix and Chill for instance is a happy medium between going out and getting dressed up while still getting something you want afterward.
 

[Batya33]

18 minutes ago, yogacat said:

But yeah, Netflix and Chill for instance is a happy medium between going out and getting dressed up while still getting something you want afterward.

 I don't agree and why always agree to a restaurant? When I make new platonic friends who want to meet "for coffee" I often suggest a walk in our local park or along a nice trail which is often als very convenient for them.  You can meet at a museum, meet for a picnic, take in an outdoor festival or a farmers market, etc.  I had a first date at an outdoor art installation you walked through.

[Coily]

19 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Such a fascinating topic that brings out a lot of issues !! 

Also I’d like to point out that the book Why love hurts by Eva illouz, gives a thorough explanation of the pitfalls of dating and relationship in the modern era, compared to the previous centuries. 

Like it has been said in this thread, women got access to education and are aiming to get into relationship with men with a similar or superior socioeconomic status. Plus there’s this social expectation that they’re supposed to date men the same age or older. 
 

As a result, many women compete for the same men and in particular those with a high socioeconomic status. 
 

Besides and due to the sexual revolution, sex is no longer tied to procreation nor marriage. The author argues that men invested sex as a tool to assert dominance over women, especially because they could no longer do so in others areas (women can work and even sometimes, get higher responsibilities jobs, they become more and more financially independents, of course feminism gave them access to more rights …). 
As a consequence, men overcompensate their masculinity and tend to have a higher number of sexual partners to assert dominance over women, and others men who have less sex. 


Finally, a huge emphasis is put on the youth and fertility of women, which implies they have a shorter time window to get into a serious relationship and start a family.

 

That’s why many men are afraid to commit, and it’s the opposite for women. 
(there are others reasons, but I forgot them, I should read the book again).

 

Interestingly, a few centuries back, men had to pursue women, were eager to commit whereas women had to hide their romantic feelings and were urged to stay « cold-headed ».( If I remember correctly, that was the case in England at least)
 

This, I think gets to some of the elements that are very difficult to parse in modern dating and courtship (no, not some animal rutting). All of what we are facing is a relatively new paradigm in the history of humanity, in that women and men are being encouraged to be antagonistic towards each other. Like Social media, and other technology; we have not as a species fully adapted to the world in which we now live.

Throw in the complications of the last decades in the social sphere of men and women's interactions being scrutinized to find the merest excuse to deem someone not worth the time and attention. It's no wonder everyone dating is suffering from the lack of social guide rails.

Now, that's not me saying there need to be some rigid orthodoxy, as some would wrongly assume. But there is no simple direct way for courtship to proceed. Everything is fraught with social pitfalls now that didn't used to instill a timidity in interactions.

 

 

[boltnrun]

47 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

 I don't agree and why always agree to a restaurant? When I make new platonic friends who want to meet "for coffee" I often suggest a walk in our local park or along a nice trail which is often als very convenient for them.  You can meet at a museum, meet for a picnic, take in an outdoor festival or a farmers market, etc.  I had a first date at an outdoor art installation you walked through.

That's exactly what I cited as examples. I didn't say anything about expensive restaurants with wine or even cheap restaurants. I mentioned a botanical garden, a hiking trail or a live show (which can range from $10 per ticket up to however much you want to spend. Heck, the local university has performances that are free or nearly free).

I don't think it has to be either a $300 dinner or lazing on the couch with nothing in between. 

[yogacat]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I don't agree and why always agree to a restaurant? When I make new platonic friends who want to meet "for coffee" I often suggest a walk in our local park or along a nice trail which is often als very convenient for them.  You can meet at a museum, meet for a picnic, take in an outdoor festival or a farmers market, etc.  I had a first date at an outdoor art installation you walked through.

I don't know, they make a suggestion to meet at a restaurant, I must insist on something else? I suppose I could. Plus I like dates on the shorter side. So a 2 hour date might turn into a 3 hour date if you're going for a walk and I'm already struggling with the 2 hours. I like those things that you suggest and often come up during later dates, but for the first one, I prefer less complicated options. I think I would actually prefer a first date to be something simpl'ish like desserts. 

One date I suggested movies in the park on a warm summer night but he poo poo'd that idea.

[Batya33]

32 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I don't know, they make a suggestion to meet at a restaurant, I must insist on something else? I suppose I could. Plus I like dates on the shorter side. So a 2 hour date might turn into a 3 hour date if you're going for a walk and I'm already struggling with the 2 hours. I like those things that you suggest and often come up during later dates, but for the first one, I prefer less complicated options. I think I would actually prefer a first date to be something simpl'ish like desserts. 

One date I suggested movies in the park on a warm summer night but he poo poo'd that idea.

No not insist or demand - simply suggest in a lighthearted way.  For a first meet I preferred not to do a  whole meal although lunch during the workday was fine.  I liked getting coffee and walking and talking for awhile.

[bluecastle]

8 hours ago, Coily said:

All of what we are facing is a relatively new paradigm in the history of humanity, in that women and men are being encouraged to be antagonistic towards each other.

Curious what you mean by this. 

As I see it, men being antagonistic toward women is hardly a new paradigm. Historically, it has been the norm: men viewing and treating women as inferior, lesser, as objects, and so on. The difference is that this is now unacceptable—and that many women will be more assertive (as men have long been) in demanding they get treated as they feel they deserve. 

But I do agree that there's a lot of heightened sensitivity, raw nerves, and timidity surrounding all this friction. Optimistic view is: growing pains, an adjustment, etc. Less optimistic view is: the age of social media distorts and magnifies in ways that makes everyone a little batty. Verdict is out, I suppose. 

One thing I've found myself thinking of with this thread: For all the pitfalls of dating—and pitfalls are hardly new to dating—there are signs that relationships are improving. The divorce rate is down in the US, for example, and some have commented that may be due to people being more intentional in relationships—and waiting longer to marry. So while the rites and rituals of courtship may be all sorts of discombobulated, perhaps actual relationships are evolving to be more equal and fulfilling? 

[rainbowsandroses]

32 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

One thing I've found myself thinking of with this thread: For all the pitfalls of dating—and pitfalls are hardly new to dating—there are signs that relationships are improving. The divorce rate is down in the US, for example, and some have commented that may be due to people being more intentional in relationships—and waiting longer to marry. So while the rites and rituals of courtship may be all sorts of discombobulated, perhaps actual relationships are evolving to be more equal and fulfilling? 

@bluecastleI found this^ interesting so just now did a little research and found the below excerpt from an article on CNN.  May be of interest, it was to me especially what's highlighted in bold!  The last four paragraphs.

Marriage Rates are Up, and Divorce Rates are Down, New Data Shows

By Madeline Holcombe, CNN

[SNIP}

But in 2020, the marriage rate was down to 5.1 per 1,000 people, the data showed. The rate started to climb the next year, and by 2022, the number of marriages had reached 6.2 per capita and over 2 million in a year, according to the report.

Growth in marriage rates may be due to more than just rescheduling, said Marissa Nelson, a licensed marriage and family therapist in Washington, DC.

Being in lockdown together gave many couples a unique hurdle to overcome, one that made them get intentional about how they approached important things like finances, compromise and autonomy. Many people walked out of that experience with a better sense of what they need in a life partner, Nelson said.

Intentionality may also be behind declining divorce rates, she added.

In 2022, the divorce rate was 2.4 per 1,000 people. Although that isn’t the lowest it has ever been – in 2021, it was 2.3 – it continues a downward trend, according to the data.

Being stuck in a home together during lockdown forced a lot of couples to face problems in their relationship head-on, Nelson said. That might have caused additional strife, or it could have helped them lay better groundwork for a stable future, she added.

Another big change recently has been the way people enter marriages, said Ian Kerner, a licensed marriage and family therapist and CNN contributor.

“In my practice over the last decade, I’ve noticed a gradual shift from the ‘romantic marriage’ to the ‘companionate marriage,’ meaning that people are increasingly choosing spouses at the outset who are more like best friends than passion-partners,” Kerner said via email.

Doing so may lead to problems with attraction, but it also means those people are choosing partners based on qualities likely to promote long-term stability and satisfaction, he said in a previous CNN article.

“At its bare minimum, the concept of commitment implies the experience of being bonded with another. At its very best, it means being bonded with someone who is a consistent safe and secure home base that will be there for you in the face of any adversities,” said Dr. Monica O’Neal, a Boston psychologist, in a recent CNN article.

 

 

[Cherylyn]

Courtship exists dependent upon whom you're referring to.  Conservative,  traditional,  perhaps faith based (or religious) type people lean towards courtship with serious intentions towards marriage otherwise they're simply wasting everyone's time.  I think it's beautiful to get to know a person first,  study their character and envision a committed,  legal future together. 

However,  if you're outside the realm of the courtship ritual,  then it's a real game changer all around.  Many times,  there's no intention towards marriage,  some people play the field or sow their wild oats first before ever even imagining a more permanent relationship for the long haul.  They're not ready to settle down.  Then you throw in the demands of careers,  choices regarding pregnancy or terminating pregnancies.  That type of unfettered path will be the guiding force for so many people's lives.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

59 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

. As I see it, men being antagonistic toward women is hardly a new paradigm. Historically, it has been the norm: men viewing and treating women as inferior, lesser, as objects, and so on. 

Agree. However there is this neo-misogyny, dressed up as men's rights similar other hate groups dressed up as empowering rights: 

"The manosphere is a diverse collection of websites, blogs, and online forums promoting masculinity, misogyny, and opposition to feminism. Communities within the manosphere include men's rights activists, incels ,Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW), pick-up artists (PUA)" 

While this subgroup doesn't really impact modern dating, it's out there. 

[DarkCh0c0]

6 hours ago, yogacat said:

I don't know, they make a suggestion to meet at a restaurant, I must insist on something else? I suppose I could. Plus I like dates on the shorter side

There's no right or wrong.

If I meet the person irl and they asked for a dinner date, then why not?

Online is a different story because I didn't get that first impression before saying yes. But hey, it's fine to go to the restaurant too. I try to look it at it positively: I met with a stranger, we had a good meal, a good chat, and I feel X about it". The guy must be screaming red flags for me to leave a date very quickly. I've had 3 hour coffee dates with people I've never seen again, just like I've had 3 hour chats on planes with people I've never seen again. And if we happen to click, more hoorey!