Modern Dating: The Evolution of Courtship for Men and Women

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

Well, maybe there is part truth to that.

I saw a different atmosphere. Specifically, my female cousin that has always been overweight, had no shortage of attention from men. She is flirty, outgoing, and fun. I was a slim (still am) and have my own success in attracting males.

And everyone has choices in who they prefer to date. I totally get what you're saying, just different life experiences. 

Completely consistent with what I wrote. I agree. In my major city at that time women who were very overweight were at a disadvantage. Often enough they lied if they had a dating profile. Which made it worse. I don’t think it was right or fair. It was the reality in the way I described. I was overweight twice. For a few months in my early 20s because of a bad birth control pill I was on and while I was pregnant and for a couple of months after. Otherwise I’ve always been slim or thin. 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I dislike the phrase "sexual market value" as well.  As stated earlier, it's overly broad and highly subjective.  Imo.

I only referenced it in my post as it was in context with what was being discussed and Lolita's comment about it.

Oh yes I noticed that and I agree. It’s like when Samantha loses her orgasm temporarily in Sex And The City and given her goals in dating this was a complete tragedy lol 

[yogacat]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@yoga, I didn't interpret @diascomment to mean that a woman's inner beauty does not matter.  He was speaking about extremes of opinions.  Meaning that only outer beauty matters (which is one extreme) OR only inner beauty matters (another extreme).  

We (both men and women) need BOTH imo.  

My recent ex said to me (as well as other men I've had relationships with) "rainbows, you're beautiful inside and out" both were important to him.  One without the other and I would not have been the right woman for him (and vice versa as I feel the same about men).  

Re quoted above, beauty is subjective and who's to say that a particular man would NOT find an overweight woman beautiful?   It's so nuanced - to HIM she may be beautiful (for many reasons), who's to say?

The point is we are all attracted to each other for different reasons, what one man finds beautiful another man may not.  

This is true for women too, about men.  It is for me anyway and most women I know.  I suppose there are men and women who only care about outer beauty and men and women who only care about inner beauty.

Which imo is OKAY, to each their own, whatever works.

It's all dandy! 🙂

Besides, you can't possibly know about someone's "inner beauty" just by looking at them.

It takes at least a good conversation and quality time to get to know someone on that level.

Honestly I agree with you wholeheartedly. I was simply trying to interpret @dias comment's statement in a way that it didn't come across as placing one type of beauty over the other. But I agree, both inner and outer beauty are important in a person and it's all subjective. Thanks for your comment, it added some nuance to the conversation.

[Sindy_0311]

I think I'm more attractive now that i'm 40 than in my 20s because I have more experience, sexually speaking. Right after my divorce I used to date men between 25 and 35 years old (in fact they were all younger than me). Three of them weren't looking for a fertile woman as they didn't want kids, they just wanted to meet an attractive woman, who is taking care of her herself, had a great body, beautiful face, and was interesting to talk to... They would sometimes say how sex is better with older women because they have more libido and perfectly know how to please men. Some men also look for older women because they like how they treat them and "nurture" them... I'm 40 and really I don't have any difficulty finding someone to date, even casually. I have plenty of OLD matches with men between 25 and 45. I think It all stems on how you present yourself, if you have a great body, if you take care of your skin, have a sense of style and a young attitude. Marylyn Monroe was an Icon partly because she was looking and behaving like a little girl, so innocent and playful. You can be 40 and still be present on the market because of your young heart and the way you take care of yourself. 

For the notice, Dicaprio never got married with one of his young women, is it because as some point they are boring? 😆

[DarkCh0c0]

2 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

For the notice, Dicaprio never got married with one of his young women, is it because as some point they are boring? 😆

He's got mommy issues 😂

2 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I think I'm more attractive now that i'm 40 than in my 20s because I have more experience, sexually speaking.

I think the same too. I think when women mature they look so beautiful and wise.

[mylolita]

On 3/25/2024 at 11:08 AM, MrMan1983 said:

Can really resonate with this post, and that's from both sides. I've been guilty of being too picky to a point where I annoy myself for not being interested in certain people who have been keen on me, then boots often been on the other foot too so you end up in this situation where too many people are after some fairytale match made in heaven which results in a lot of people stuck single.

Hi Mr! 
 

I feel this is true in some cases of course and I definitely can relate to the pursuit of perfection and its pitfalls myself in many aspects of my life; not just relationships! 
 

Thanks for chiming in! 
 

Are you single now or happily settled? How did the hunt go for you? 🥲

 

I am far from an English picnic so within reason, I wouldn’t expect it from my husband. There’s been plenty we’ve fought over; and fought very hard. We’re the same in many respects but in some areas, drastically different. It adds spark and push and pull but can also cause conflict if I don’t keep my emotions in check! 
 

I feel like on reflection, a good sign of a “forever” relationship is if someone’s personality and character strengthens and inspires where you are weak, and yours to them, vice versa. A meeting of minds as well. You have to be on the same page for the “Big Picture”. Ying to the yang, and all of that good stuff! Being best friends is also an essential I think. I’ve never had a female best friend in my adult life because my best friend is my husband! If you feel heard and understood by someone, and supported in the unique ways you need to be supported, the chemistry and the sensitivity and the energy and will to work through the hard times will come naturally! 
 

I’ve become so interested in long term happy couples that maybe awkwardly; I often ask couples I know what their advice/secret is! Yesterday; I had my Aunty and Uncle round who have been married for 53 years. I asked them, they both laughed! My Aunt quickly said, “A patient wife!” And then my Uncle, who is a retired tribunal Judge, added, “A patient husband!”

 

I thought that was so cute! And there is probably a lot of truth in just that simple, off the cuff statement. Even there, you could see their sense of humour bounced off each other and they didn’t even make any eye contact the whole time! Very endearing and really great to hear, I can’t get enough of that kinda stuff! 
 

x

[mylolita]

22 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Bolded - There IS truth to this^^ (even the part about career) for some men, that is correct. 100%, not going to refute that.

But again it's subjective because there are also many men who do not value those things, not to the same degree.

I've met both, I've also talked with men in a support group I attended years ago and been on a few men's forums.  And of course the men I've had relationships with.

On the men's forums (not PUA but believe it or not some men even on PUA forums) do NOT want a woman 18???? or in their early 20s, they have BTDT and have no desire to be their "parent" or "teacher" (their words); they value and appreciate a woman with a certain amount of experience, intellectually and sexually.  For various reasons. 

Re sexually I don't want to throw out numbers (of sexual partners) because it differs for every man, some men don't care about the numbers at all.  They place no value on it either way.  And these are intelligent, educated, professionally successful men. 

Women are also fertile into their 30s and are also quite beautiful!!  Into their 40s and even 50s depending how she cares for herself etc.

But just here in my neck of the woods (SoCal), the number of utterly naturally beautiful women in their 30s and 40s is staggering!  

As such her "sexual market value" may be even higher than when she was 18, I've seen it!  And heard it from several men! 

That's my only issue with @mylolitacomment, the age factor.  Claiming a womans SMV peaks at 18 and goes downhill from there, as if it were a matter of FACT.

It's not.  NOT for all men and for me personally a man who believes it is and who won't touch a woman under the age of 25 and who thinks less of a woman who is not a virgin and not "pure," and/or who has had more than 1-2 boyfriends deeming her "damaged goods," I wouldn't want HIM and felt that way even when I was in my early 20's and supposedly at my "peak." 

I won't go into what I think of that mindset, it's just not something I can respect, personally.

 

I said generally rainbows, I think you have took my comment as completely and strictly black or white.

 

Generally, most women will be at their most desirable to the majority of men on a broad, general basis, when they are younger. I stand by that being a fact.

 

Of course you get fertile beautiful accomplished women in their 40s with zero baggage. Being an older woman is not some kind of death sentence to the dating world - but in general, you will find your options become more limited whether you can see this or not.

 

For example, when looking for a relationship, most people would prefer someone to not have a long history of failed relationships. Ideally, not be divorced. Ideally, be healthy, be mentally stable, have hobbies, be optimistic to an extent. 
 

As we age, we tend to simply accumulate “baggage”. We can become quite jaded, naturally. I notice a lot of the females here dating have said things like they don’t want to put in the work. Maybe when you start out in the race, your energy and enthusiasm and willingness is at its peak. As we gather negative experiences, take on other responsibilities as we age like careers, mortgages, children - this changes the time we can commit to finding love and also, it reduces its priority massively. 
 

If I were to become single tomorrow, my priority would be my children, not going out on dates. Single mothers, single fathers - are all likely to be older, 30s, 40s, 50s. It can generally complicate dating. This is just a fact! It’s not anti-feminist or anti-age or anti-woman. 
 

“Sexual market value” is a term of phase which describes how hot property you are in general terms in the open dating market. We can probably establish a male model who is 30 and runs a multi million pound company will have more options than a 18 year old boy or average looks with no job who still lives with his parents. Again, this is not a horrible sentiment or cold it’s just, reality. 
 

I never said all women over 30 are doomed. My own Grandmother married happily at 30 and had my Dad and his brother in her early 30s.

 

When we’re talking about millions of women, and what it means to them to be dating in todays culture - it generally gets harder as you age. Generally. People also get set in their single life ways. There are so many reasons. Some of them even financial. Maybe you’re 35 and have accumulated a property and savings and now you’re worried if someone is after your property and money rather than a relationship with you? 
 

Not many young people have to worry about already having kids as a responsibility, a busy career to content with, money in the pot to “protect”, failed relationships or divorces, or generally having had the years lived to have been knocked about a bit in this life. An accumulation of bad experiences can make people suspicious and cynical and less likely to take risks; especially in the relationship department. People get guarded quite often as they age. 
 

These are generalisations - there are exceptions to the rule. But; I stand by that they are general truths. 
 

It’s not toxic manosphere stuff or incel stuff in my opinion. It’s common sense! 
 

x

[mylolita]

On 3/25/2024 at 8:38 AM, DarkCh0c0 said:

What?! Are saying men don't fall head over heels when I tell them how full my calendar is? 😄

There's some truth of course to what Lolita says, but not everyone is able to get married early AND to the right partner. Lots of people are divorced or busy with life. That's doesn't make them loose all their value by 30.

Thank you Kwothe 🥰 it's good to be briefly back.

Are you married or single?

I think you two need to get together!!!!

 

😘 x

[mylolita]

On 3/24/2024 at 10:47 PM, yogacat said:

I didn't watch Orion Taraban's video. 

His views are fundamentally flawed. He has this mindset that men have numerous options and that women must resort to being promiscuous in order to ensnare them. 🤨 He also believes women must then make themselves "useful" in order to keep the man and benefit from his resources. This reductionist mindset reduces women to mere objects whose only desire is to exploit men. This is truly misogynistic.

Men are not inherently more desirable or sought-after. Women have just as many if not more options when it comes to relationships and dating. Paint women as desperate beings who must resort to promiscuity to secure a partner. Bleh.

Just thought I'd comment on that.😉

I too don’t agree with everything he says yoga and especially not the kind of, contrived putting out very early on! I think it does the opposite! 
 

I mostly agreed with his general statements on female and male approaches to dating being different, or needing to be different, and some of the opinions he has on “peaks” for men and women. I feel like I’m in a law of court here and I need to caveat everything with the word “GENERALLY” to cover my a** from when someone says “but I know a 50 year old female model who has men lining up for her and an amazing career and she’s better ever than when she was in her 20s and never got asked out; not once!”

 

Yessssssssss! All the hot older women out there - a big congratulations! 
 

But I’m bothered about reality and the facts of the matter and getting to the meat of the dating broth and my observation is, generally speaking, do it while you’re young or young-ish ladies, don’t dally; and men? You’ll be in a better position when you’re established, for example, in your late 20s to 40s. 
 

This explains why generally (generally generally woop woop!) women go for older men. It all correlates. There is something to this! 
 

It’s hard to hear. I wanna believe in all the Rose’s too, the dancing pansies and that it doesn’t matter how you look or if you’re a guy, it doesn’t matter what job you do or what age you are, you could be 60, go out, date! It doesn’t matter! But, aside from exceptions, in my opinion, this just isn’t the case.

 

For example, I have a boy and two girls. I have their genuine best interests of course at heart. This is testimony to how I believe these sentiments to be true. I would advise my girls to start thinking about what they want in a relationship and to start looking for that while they are young (head start at the very least) and my boy, I would advise him to go for a kind woman but that it’s important he makes his own castle so to speak, and work hard, and makes good at whatever he does.

 

I want them overall to be happy, and I genuinely believe this attitude brings happiness.

 

Yes it‘s not politically correct and yes, it is gender specific and, shoot me down cos I don’t quite care! 🥲 

 

Yoga! You have opened up a very vivacious and interesting thread babe and I salute you for the hot topic 🤣 I’m sorry I have waffled. I am on the alternative bench here but strange to note, a lot of the male users here seem to half if not fully agree with me! How interesting!!!

 

x

[rainbowsandroses]

31 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I said generally rainbows, I think you have took my comment as completely and strictly black or white.

Hey Lolita, good to see you back! 

Re^^, I took your original comment as black and white because imo that is how you presented it - as black and white.  With no other nuance.   

If I read/interpreted it incorrectly my apologies. 

In any event, I appreciate you clarifying because nothing is ever black and white imo. 😀

[mylolita]

On 3/24/2024 at 10:54 PM, rainbowsandroses said:

I agree with this^^ 100%!

To clarify because I suspect something may have gotten lost in translation, my heart and feelings have never been casual, including now.

Not to sound defensive but I am dating casually now until like I said, I meet a man for whom I DO have feelings and want to explore a relationship "with him."

Perhaps it will be with one of the two men I'm currently dating or another totally different man.

Other than a brief period around 7-8 years ago after my breakup with a long term boyfriend/fiancé, I have never casually dated. 

I'm trying it on now, because I'm in the process of healing from significant losses and not emotionally ready to jump back into another relationship which is what I've always done.  So this suits me, for now.

Plus I haven't met anyone special enough or that I have "feelings" for (other than a casual attraction) that would cause me to want anything more than casual. 

I'm not hurting anyone and I'm actually learning a lot about myself while doing so. So it's all good and positive! 

I think for a certain demographic of men like the men who frequent strip joints for example and certain men on the "manosphere" (not all men because such men have been evolving the last few years), YES they do prefer and value very young women (18-25 tops) and women who who are virgins.

I am not typically attracted or drawn to such men. Our values and mindsets differ too dramatically for me to ever feel an attraction to such men, beyond surface level. 

Fortunately, they are not the men I encounter or interact with in my daily life.  And when/if I do, it's a quick next. 

I do not discount your experiences Lolita however given what you described about your time and experience as a stripper/exotic dancer and that environment, and perhaps because of what YOU have observed in your own life since then, your personal views make a lot of sense and I respect them.

It's just NOT my world, what I have experienced or what I have observed and continue to observe in my life, that's all.

Hope that makes sense! 

 

 

 

I will say also rainbows that it is brilliant that this new approach has been working for you! 
 

Of course there are exceptions.

 

I would generally advise against this approach but again; of course it is each to their own. The key is that you are energetic and happy and excited for the future and you know what you want. 
 

I would dispute that all men who go to strip clubs have this “manosphere” mindset. A lot of women go to them too - and couples, who I also would dance for, as a married couple! Do they all think so badly of women? 
 

I would argue that I have seen and experienced both sides, therefore I’m not going to presume but I’m confident I do get the majority of men for the most part.

 

I have lived with my husband for 16 years, I know what keeps a relationship happy, what keeps us happy, what makes him happy. This is, in my opinion, exceptionally valuable experience and no small feat to be brushed off. This is why I am eternally curious to ask any happily married couple their advice! 
 

Secondly, I’ve talked to and seen men in a sexual way, thousands of them, over a 3 year period. What many women I think presume is that men there are only there for naughty dirty lap dancing. The majority of men there are actually lonely, and want a connection with a woman. Hence why the VIP booths are full of men talking to women, not half an hour of continuous stripping. It’s curious to observe and opened my eyes personally.

 

And thirdly, I believe you can have all the casual, kinky, deep and naughty sex you want, the best you’ll ever have - once you’re in a truly loving relationship! Because it takes friendship, deep connection and trust for the bedroom to be really something special!

 

Another unusual fact about me is that after we got engaged me and my husband had a year or two of naughty exploration going to private members clubs which were basically swingers clubs. We were cheeky together, and as a team. We’re still together now. Everything you read would point to this being the wrong kind of move. 
 

I’m also bi-sexual, and have had my sexual experiences with my husband with other women. It was just me who was with the other women, not him. Anyway; as a kind of self professed glamorous but ironically a tom boy; I feel like I get a glimmer into the male mind. Because, I see women in a way some women don’t. I see them sexually. Not, of course, in the exact same way as a man would - but I can relate. I think I have a glimmer into a certain part of the male brain.

 

I also find it a curious thing that the majority of men on this site often like, or agree, or at least half agree, with my comments. 
 

I feel like I know exactly what I’m talking about! 
 

People can of course beg to differ, and that is absolutely a-okay and their comments and opinions and experiences are valuable. 
 

But to dance on the line of devoted wife and traditionalist, and then, have that explorative trust and playful freedom we both agree and share as a couple, is very special, and very rare. And I think that’s really something. 
 

I think I come at this from quite a unique perspective. Whether people agree with me or not matters not a jot to me in the least - but what I’m saying here is the truth for me, from what I’ve observed, my experience, which, I feel is vast, and extremely varied, considered I’m only 34.

 

I mean, I don’t want to be cocky but, what I don’t know about men you could write on a pin head. 
 

LOL! 
 

Everyone is welcome to pile in and tell me I’m just a past sex worker, swinger, and long term married mother so what do I know 🤣🤣🤣

 

It’s a confronting mix. I get that. I’m assaulting the senses 🤣

 

x

[mylolita]

1 minute ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Hey Lolita, good to see you back! 

Re^^, I took your original comment as black and white because imo that is how you presented it - as black and white.  With no other nuance.   

If I read/interpreted it incorrectly my apologies. 

In any event, I appreciate you clarifying with more because nothing is ever black and white imo. 😀

Well of course not rainbows and anyone who thinks anything is 100% one way or 100% the other would be an imbecile. 
 

Not even in my opinion do incels and women haters think like this. There are grey areas to the whole thing. Sometimes, they have a point, Y’know? Other times, the feminist perspective has a point. 
 

But then there’s reality and the truth and how things really work and that’s what I’m concerned with. 
 

x

[yogacat]

13 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I too don’t agree with everything he says yoga and especially not the kind of, contrived putting out very early on! I think it does the opposite! 
 

I mostly agreed with his general statements on female and male approaches to dating being different, or needing to be different, and some of the opinions he has on “peaks” for men and women. I feel like I’m in a law of court here and I need to caveat everything with the word “GENERALLY” to cover my a** from when someone says “but I know a 50 year old female model who has men lining up for her and an amazing career and she’s better ever than when she was in her 20s and never got asked out; not once!”

 

Yessssssssss! All the hot older women out there - a big congratulations! 
 

But I’m bothered about reality and the facts of the matter and getting to the meat of the dating broth and my observation is, generally speaking, do it while you’re young or young-ish ladies, don’t dally; and men? You’ll be in a better position when you’re established, for example, in your late 20s to 40s. 
 

This explains why generally (generally generally woop woop!) women go for older men. It all correlates. There is something to this! 
 

It’s hard to hear. I wanna believe in all the Rose’s too, the dancing pansies and that it doesn’t matter how you look or if you’re a guy, it doesn’t matter what job you do or what age you are, you could be 60, go out, date! It doesn’t matter! But, aside from exceptions, in my opinion, this just isn’t the case.

 

For example, I have a boy and two girls. I have their genuine best interests of course at heart. This is testimony to how I believe these sentiments to be true. I would advise my girls to start thinking about what they want in a relationship and to start looking for that while they are young (head start at the very least) and my boy, I would advise him to go for a kind woman but that it’s important he makes his own castle so to speak, and work hard, and makes good at whatever he does.

 

I want them overall to be happy, and I genuinely believe this attitude brings happiness.

 

Yes it‘s not politically correct and yes, it is gender specific and, shoot me down cos I don’t quite care! 🥲 

 

Yoga! You have opened up a very vivacious and interesting thread babe and I salute you for the hot topic 🤣 I’m sorry I have waffled. I am on the alternative bench here but strange to note, a lot of the male users here seem to half if not fully agree with me! How interesting!!!

 

x

Haha, all in a good day of fun and debates.😉

Seriously, thank you for engaging in this discussion with me! I appreciate your perspective and always love hearing different opinions.

I get a lot of what you're saying and there are a lot of what you said that I agree with, I do, I really, really do. 😊

When you say 20 year olds going out with people in their thirties and such, I personally didn't find that appealing when I was that age as I was more interested in hanging out with people my own age. I felt like guys in their thirties were ickies if they went after me lol. That was just me personally.

That said, I am struggling to see how exactly your two examples fit in the kind of here....

I think you're maybe talking more about lifestyles and not so much someone's actual value as a partner in a forever sort of thing? I get where you are coming from, I promise I do. Cause I believe in working and settling and all that as well.

I don't quite buy into the concept of settling at an early age. I think that perspective represents a lot of uninformed norms vs. what may actually be the right and best thing for someone, which can actually be such a wide variety of things. For some people happily ever after might happen at 22, sure, but for others such things don't really pick until 35 or 40, also totally possible.

I also don't especially quite agree with it because it sort of implies that a woman must solely exist to have a man in her life, when, and better yet, how dare she, exist for things SHE loves as a person and finds rewarding? Because, if she doesn't she'll be some washed up old hag without anyone to love her? I think not! Which if funny, considering 50% of marriages end in divorce, that's a lot of women who may have wished they just chose their painting and writing and traveling over trying to shape shift to survive.

Please don't think that I am 100% against the idea of settling early, and I love a lot of what you wrote, especially a persons personal journey, no matter what particular age they might happen upon, I just don't happefully agree with some of what I think the implications of the examples.

[rainbowsandroses]

26 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I will say also rainbows that it is brilliant that this new approach has been working for you! 

Thank you Lolita, but my decision to casually date (assuming that's what you're referring to?) is not a new 'approach' necessarily. 

I'm enjoying myself for now, yes,  however still maintain the same approach I've always had - to date "one-at-a-time" when/if I find a man I feel is special and wish to focus on.  It's typically a mutual attraction/feeling, and we go from there to determine where it will lead.

I realize there have been many many posts so perhaps you missed where I posted that earlier?

But clarifying now.  I am casually dating now because I haven't found that man and I'm not all that interested in jumping back into another serious relationship right now anyway, for various reasons which I've posted previously.

So I suppose in that sense, it is working for me. 

And I appreciate your encouragement! And wanted to say I truly applaud you for being able to sustain such a happy and harmonious marriage for so many years (apologies I forget how many, 16?).

Congrats!  💛

[yogacat]

18 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I have lived with my husband for 16 years, I know what keeps a relationship happy, what keeps us happy, what makes him happy. This is, in my opinion, exceptionally valuable experience and no small feat to be brushed off. This is why I am eternally curious to ask any happily married couple their advice! 

I think it's great that you and your husband have a happy relationship.

I recall reading that you both opened up the marriage at some point? I imagine opening up the marriage could actually give you a wider perspective as to other relationships, and that opening the marriage is partially inspired by trying to be as adventurous as you can, and grab as many good things in life that you can.

But, isn't that in a way 'casual' too?

Alas, I have absolutely no judgement at all in this for you. Simply curious.

I think stability and the traditional family's importance is important in people's lives, but I just don't necessarily believe marriage is the only way for that stability. That there is so much more to offer people than settling early on.

But, I also see how the breakdown of marriages and people settling young, is a problem especially need to taken into account on the search for love.

So, I can't challenge the harm this system definitely causes. However, I am also just massively against marriage as a forced stability, it is also likely a forced career. Marriage has a history of being a career oriented vision. And while marriage is great for couples who have to deal with illness, with children, with a myriad of family and community pressure, with home ownership, and poverty which marriage really helps solve, the limited marriage debate at times falls into or is still a bit less like, actually, marriage, can't really be for everybody. Marriage being alternatively desirable than working, and that loop of confusion.

But I also see how marriages bring forth stability and good, rooted values and most importantly a good (hopefully good) environment for their children, which that mirrored in a community strengthens the social dynamics in that community. 

[mylolita]

Hey @yogacat!

 

No worries - I really love you opening up this debate and your perspectives! I actually think we may be on more of a similar wavelength than it might seem! 
 

The divorce rates! What’s the average age women tie the knot now? I bet it’s much later. Same for children.

 

One of the main arguments for the older woman being great and a better option is that they’re wiser, they know more, they have established themselves. So why do people who marry later, tend to divorce sooner? 
 

And, just because you marry early does not mean you simply settled and grabbed the first one that gave you a chance! Of course yoga I would always advise waiting until the right one comes. This is the priority. But my argument is - people don’t take this seriously at a young age. Hence the rush generally later on. 
 

Women are told now focus on your education and career in your teens and twenties. When were any of our young women told, hold up - that’s all fine and well, but if you want a husband and children, realistically, you should start dating with a serious mind set the sooner the better, and don’t spend all your time doing something else so the most important thing in life (love) is left on the back burner, ten, twenty years down the line. 
 

My passion personally was love, finding love. I am your typical hopeless romantic. I could have found love at 38. That could have been how it worked out for me. But then again, I’m only going to help my chances if I make big moves to put myself in that “healthy singles market”. I did that from the age of 17. I knowingly chose a college job whilst studying that put me in the centre where single men were - a high end cocktail bar! I waitressesd at 17 then was behind the bar at 18. There was no coincidence I was working a job where I got off my shift at 3am. 
 

I must have met hundreds and sometimes thousands of men by the end of the week (I worked 3/4 nights a week back then during college). It was like speed dating on steroids. People were actively there looking for something as well. Well, most of them. 
 

I was actually proposed to before my husband, strangely, when I was very young. It was a very heart felt, nervous, deep proposal by a boy when he was 15 and I was the same age. I said no and I never even went out with him because, I just knew he wasn’t right for me. I think of him from time to time because I genuinely feel guilty about that rejection. It took massive guts for him to walk me aside and he took me under a tree and, strange enough again, we were both not religious (atheists) so, again, quite unusual probably. Two proposals and no dates by 18 🤣

 

Anyway, what I’m saying is, at 17, I could have took the job at the library, helping 70 year old women find books on knitting and 80 year old men find what a mouse is on a computer. I could have worked in a quiet cafe. But I didn’t! It was a very purposeful choice. 
 

Can I pursue a career? Of course! Can I paint, write, enjoy hobbies? YES! I can do ALL of that and be happily married! And have children! I believe personally in spending the majority of my time raising them while they’re young, so I don’t work. But just because you’re dating or in a relationship does not mean you are kind of, bound to this man and you can’t do anything but cook. I have an extremely traditional role that I set out for and got my way with. I feel exceptionally privileged to be living the life I want and envisioned and out to get. To me, you don’t get more successful and lucky than that. And I count my blessings everyday.

 

Success to me is getting what you wanted, meeting the goals you set for yourself, and living life on your own terms. It’s exactly what I’ve always done and will continue to do because, that’s my personality. 
 

Whether I’m passive or not in the flirtation round or whether I know all men’s thoughts or whether I’m right or wrong really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. What matters is, I knew what I wanted, had a plan, executed it in my own unique way, that suited me, stuck to my principles and my morals despite all outside pressure, and just did my own thing, my way - like old Frank said 🤣

 

I mean, career aside, I’m pretty proud of that. 
 

Maybe in a few years time I can get a medical degree and all the women can clap me and say oh well done! One for the team! But I don’t care. I’d only have a career if I wanted one, not because it me what a woman is supposed to do. And at the moment, my “career” is - my children, my husband, watering this pot of great love I have in my life and bloomin’ doing whatever I want for the rest of it because I don’t work, don’t have a boss, have a lovely lifestyle and I can do, within reason, what I please! 
 

Women can take my advice or observations as they see it. It worked for me, it doesn’t mean it’s going to work for every woman. Not every woman is like me, and that’s very much a fact. Very much 🤣 I mean, we can see the void as we speak!

 

If you want unorthodox and alternative, okay, you can read my book on romance 🤪

 

Cheers again yoga for letting my blab! I like you! Keep on. 
 

x

[mylolita]

7 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Thank you Lolita, but my decision to casually date (assuming that's what you're referring to?) is not a new 'approach' necessarily. 

I'm enjoying myself for now, yes,  however still maintain the same approach I've always had - to date "one-at-a-time" when/if I find a man I feel is special and wish to focus on.  It's typically a mutual attraction/feeling, and we go from there to determine where it will lead.

I realize there have been many many posts so perhaps you missed where I posted that earlier?

But clarifying now.  I am casually dating now because I haven't found that man and I'm not all that interested in jumping back into another serious relationship right now anyway,  for various reasons which I've posted previously.

So I suppose in that sense, it is working for me. 

And I appreciate your encouragement! And wanted to say I truly applaud you for being able to sustain such a happy and harmonious marriage for so many years (apologies I forget how many, 16?).

Congrats!  💛

Yes! 16 years! Married for 10.

 

This 18 year old knew what she was doin’! Didn’t do too bad! He’s quite the catch and frankly, I don’t deserve him but, here I am 🤣

 

You know more than you think you do.

 

Don’t let people tell you youth means nothing, and that only the old are wise. I think it’s one of the biggest crocks parroted out there. 
 

But, I’m getting into my controversial opinions again… L M A OOOO! 
 

Casually date if it works best for you of course. I would always personally nudge away from that, but I don’t know you, your ins and outs and nuances and all of that; and wish you the best rainbows and hope, if you want, you do meet THAT GUY! 
 

(Who; by the sounds of it; definitely won’t be from the manosphere) 🤣🤣🤣

 

x

[rainbowsandroses]

25 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Don’t let people tell you youth means nothing, and that only the old are wise. I think it’s one of the biggest crocks parroted out there. 

I wholeheartedly agree with you!

I never thought youth meant nothing and typically don't allow what others think or tell me to determine my thought process anyway. 

I'm an independent thinker and always have been! 😀

You haven't figured that out yet?  Lol

I know what you mean though.

In my world, there's no such thing as "only this" or "only that."

Youth/a certain innocence and age/experience both have value and mean "something" each in a different way or sometimes in the same way.

One doesn't necessarily have more value than the other, IMHO! 

[rainbowsandroses]

23 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Who; by the sounds of it; definitely won’t be from the manosphere) 🤣🤣🤣

Lol, probably not! 

But ya never know cause the manosphere is evolving or shall I say 'devolving' as more and more men are recognizing how toxic it and RP thinking truly is!  

And moving away from it.

I've talked to a few, it's actually nice to see!

JMO of course.  I'm sure it still holds some value for some men (and women), in some form or fashion. 

 

[mylolita]

57 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I think it's great that you and your husband have a happy relationship.

I recall reading that you both opened up the marriage at some point? I imagine opening up the marriage could actually give you a wider perspective as to other relationships, and that opening the marriage is partially inspired by trying to be as adventurous as you can, and grab as many good things in life that you can.

But, isn't that in a way 'casual' too?

Alas, I have absolutely no judgement at all in this for you. Simply curious.

I think stability and the traditional family's importance is important in people's lives, but I just don't necessarily believe marriage is the only way for that stability. That there is so much more to offer people than settling early on.

But, I also see how the breakdown of marriages and people settling young, is a problem especially need to taken into account on the search for love.

So, I can't challenge the harm this system definitely causes. However, I am also just massively against marriage as a forced stability, it is also likely a forced career. Marriage has a history of being a career oriented vision. And while marriage is great for couples who have to deal with illness, with children, with a myriad of family and community pressure, with home ownership, and poverty which marriage really helps solve, the limited marriage debate at times falls into or is still a bit less like, actually, marriage, can't really be for everybody. Marriage being alternatively desirable than working, and that loop of confusion.

But I also see how marriages bring forth stability and good, rooted values and most importantly a good (hopefully good) environment for their children, which that mirrored in a community strengthens the social dynamics in that community. 

Hi yoga! 
 

It was never open in the sense that we went off and had relationships with other people.

 

Basically, to round it up - I’m a bi-sexual woman. I have no interest in women romantically, or for relationships. To summarise it for clarity, I’m probably something like 20% bisexual. I don’t need to be with women at all. I could never be with another woman until I die. It’s not a need.

 

But, me and my husband talk openly and frankly all the time and have done since we first met. We talk about it all. Anyway, my husbands always had a high libido. He chases me everyday, twice a day even. Three times a day sometimes! This is 16 years in. We’ve always had an amazing sex life! 
 

Anyway, we were talking one night, this was during the time I was a pole dancer at a strip club. I was with him and started that occupation whilst I was engaged to him, again; he’s very trusting and open minded. For a traditional guy. It’s hard to get your head around maybe if you’re not in it! We talked after I came home from the club and he told me a few of his sexual fantasies and I told him a few of mine, which involved women. His fantasy was seeing me with a woman, so strangely, they both matched up.

 

Now; my husband has ran and runs in some bohemian circles. He’s older than me by 9 years and was a fairly-ish established art dealer at the time and used to go to a private members club in Chelsea, London called The Chelsea Arts Club. You can’t just go in there. You have to be vetted and recommended by a member, you the bad you attend as a guest. Many celebrities go there apart from (hilariously, I’ll side track) they rejected Madonna. ANYWAY! People there are bohemian. People are high on drugs running around naked having orgies, whilst a Director will be sitting seriously in the corner discussing work and not batting and eye lid to someone finger painting another woman’s breasts. You had to be there really to describe it. I don’t have all day for this stuff 🤪 Caveat - I’ve never taken a drug in my life, never smoked, not even smoked pot, and neither has my husband.

 

So we’re attending these kind of parties and the opportunity is there all the time. We both decided it was okay, gave me the green light and over the course of a year and a half roughly, on and off every few months, we’d go somewhere naughty, a masked ball, the arts club, etc - and sometimes I’d end up with a girl. Sometimes my husband would join in but never fully, if you get my drift. It just didn’t work out that way and we were doing it as a couple, in a highly playful way, all whilst I was stripping as well three days a week. I’ve worked in some very extravagant strip clubs, as well, or if you want to sugar coat it, “gentleman’s clubs”. These are table service clubs. I could go into all that as well but again, how long do we all have here and, this is after watershed stuff ladies and gentlemen! 
 

MY POINT BEING DEAR YOGA! 🤣 Is that, after that year, I said darling, I’m over this now. I’d got it out of my system. So we happily stopped and hVe never gone back into that lifestyle since. That’s, 13 years ago now. 
 

We wink and joke about it from time to time. I sometimes say when the kids are grown I might want to go back. It’s by no means an essential part of our relationship, we have a phenomenal sex life just as it is. I will say, I feel I would happily be at home as a sex therapist, for example. Nothing you can say would shock me - HA! And I feel I get the dynamics sometimes between couples, it’s so vastly different from couple to couple but the bare essentials all remain the same. 
 

There must be trust. There must be mutual understanding. There must be utter honesty. There must be love. 
 

Then you can bend and twist the rules within your own universe as you both see fit privately. But, without the core foundation, it won’t work, it will actually make things much worse.

 

An example of our energy together would be, if we’re in a restaurant, and there’s a beautiful woman walking by, I’ll nudge my husbands foot under the table, he’ll roll his eyes and say, “Behave.” And then we have a knowing look and a little giggle like teenagers. 
 

I by the way love him more than anyone I could ever lay eyes on. I’m practically obsessed with him and would die a thousand deaths. 
 

I stand by my maybe unusual confirmation that - you can have all the kinky, experimental, outrageous and yes, casual sex you want, once you are in the loving confines of a forever, bonded relationship. Of course, depending on the couple. Experimental means many different things to many different people. 
 

Sex is so varied, and as it should be. To some couples, y’know, our situation would be hell on earth, to other people, heaven! Couples that really work find their own unique deep bond and do things their own way, and, it’s them against the world, really. 
 

All that ever matters to me is that me and my husband are good, the kids are good and healthy and happy - my immediate family are okay. The rest is just fluff and cherries on top.

 

I can and my husband has said, he would be with me if it meant there was no sex for the rest of our lives. It’s not all about sex, even though, it may seem that way. This is an extra part of our lives we have just, happily fallen into from knowing each other so well and being very compatible. 
 

Does that explain anything?

 

Probably not 🥂🤣 x

[rainbowsandroses]

@mylolita I'd like your opinion about something, it relates to the man I recently broke up with. 

Are you familiar?  I posted about him in my thread about Gabby Petito.

I don't want to hijack @yogacatthread so I'm gonna head back there to ask.

I figured since you've been in such a happy union with your hubs for 16 years, I'd ask you and am curious what you would have done and would do now if faced with the same situation.

Others are free to chime in as well of course.

Apologies to yoga for the quick hijack, back to topic! 

 

 

[mylolita]

17 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I wholeheartedly agree with you!

I never thought youth meant nothing and typically don't allow what others think or tell me to determine my thought process anyway. 

I'm an independent thinker and always have been! 😀

You haven't figured that out yet?  Lol

I know what you mean though.

In my world, there's no such thing as "only this" or "only that."

Youth/a certain innocence and age/experience both have value and mean "something" each in a different way or sometimes in the same way.

One doesn't necessarily have more value than the other, IMHO! 

But there is the majority, and generally speaking, which is where I lie.

 

So I still stand that, women have the most varied choice and the “best” options in their youth. Not all women, but most do. I would put myself in the youthful category. I think 18 year old me was a pretty decent version of myself. I don’t think 34 year old me has anything much more on 18 year old Lo 🥴

 

And it’s not just a looks and physicality thing either. I was so optimistic then. I had my whole life ahead of me. Anything was possible! You feel that with someone, that youthful energy, it’s infectious. You feel invisible and you think you know it all and you often look bloody amazing. A great combination. No health problems generally. No baggage. What a place to be in! To be young and looking out at all your opportunities? 
 

I think that’s awesome. 
 

Women in their 30s and 40s and onwards have a lot to offer too. But, the mistakes are there lined behind them. It’s something extra to content with. I think it does have an affect. It might not for you personally, but I think it can for a lot. Men and women, actually. 
 

I mean let’s put it this way. If you told me tomorrow, I would be single, and that, there was a magic wand that could make me any age I wanted, I wouldn’t say; make me 45 and single, fairy Godmother! I would say, Genie in the lamp, make me 18 and single! And I think with all that time there and youth, and all the advantages of youth, I’d have a much better chance of finding the right man, than if I say started at 45.

 

Not a popular perspective but it’s mine.

 

x

[mylolita]

Just now, rainbowsandroses said:

@mylolita I'd like your opinion about something, it relates to the man I recently broke up with. 

Are you familiar?  I posted about him in my thread about Gabby Petito.

I don't want to hijack @yogacatthread so I'm gonna head back there to ask.

I figured since you've been in such a happy union with your hubs for 16 years, I'd ask you and am curious what you would have done and would do now if faced with the same situation.

Others are free to chime in as well of course.

Apologies to yoga for the quick hijack, back to topic! 

 

 

Hi rainbows! 
 

I understand she was murdered tragically by her partner, was she? I’m not familiar. I’m British. 
 

Tell me about it rainbows and I’ll give my opinion gladly! Anyone else chime in I am hogging this now with my speed typing and big mouth.

 

x

[rainbowsandroses]

6 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Hi rainbows! 
 

I understand she was murdered tragically by her partner, was she? I’m not familiar. I’m British. 
 

Tell me about it rainbows and I’ll give my opinion gladly! Anyone else chime in I am hogging this now with my speed typing and big mouth.

 

x

My question doesn't relate to Gabby herself. 

My ex boyfriend (the man I recently broke up with) with whom I was falling in love (and vice versa), well actually he told me he was in love with me, was an ex-abuser (of women) BUT fully "recovered" if that's the right word.

I will head back there now, give me a minute. 😀

 

[mylolita]

4 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

My question doesn't relate to Gabby herself. 

My ex boyfriend (the man I recently broke up with) with whom I was falling in love (and vice versa), well actually he told me he was in love with me, was an ex-abuser (of women) BUT fully "recovered" if that's the right word.

I will head back there now, give me a minute. 😀

 

Oh! 
 

I remember your thread! I think I even commented rainbows! 
 

Well if you post there I’ll take another look!

 

x