Bad Behaviour vs. Clueless, How to Tell the Difference….

[Batya33]

I agree to some extent with Naomi. There are certain things I don't want to have to tell someone -certain basic things that have to do with basic manners/politeness. If I have to say those basic things then it probably means we're not on the same wavelength. If there's any chance it was a misunderstanding and the person otherwise seems to be a thoughtful, good person then I would either cut the person slack or clear the air and let it go.

[katrina1980]

Here's the deal, for me anyway.

 

First couple of months, I am evaluating him. HE should be doing same with me.

 

If within this time, he is taking my stuff without asking, helping himself to food, etc, without asking, sticking his fingers in my food, telling me I look *cute* when I get irritated when he is disrespectful to me, etc etc etc, it's NEXT.

 

At this early stage, talking to him about this **** is a complete waste of time/energy.

 

He is a grown man for heaven's sake, this is his character!

 

You cannot change a man's character no matter how many *talks* you have.

 

Once IN a relationship, that is different. By all means, speak up!

 

But first couple of months? Nah, you're evaluating him, so just chalk it up to incompatability and next him.

 

Choose wisely from the get go (first couple months) and avoid frustration, dissatisfaction, disappointment, possible hurt and pain later.

 

You did the right thing Ms. Naomi!

 

Best of luck moving forward!

[Batya33]

Here's the deal, for me anyway.

 

First couple of months, I am evaluating him. HE should be doing same with me.

 

If within this time, he is taking my stuff without asking, helping himself to food, etc, without asking, sticking his fingers in my food, telling me I look *cute* when I get irritated when he is disrespectful to me, it's NEXT.

 

At this early stage, talking to him about this **** is a complete waste of time/energy.

 

He is a grown man for heaven's sake, this is his character!

 

You cannot change a man's character no matter how many *talks* you have.

 

Once IN a relationship, that is different. By all means, speak up!

 

But first couple of months? Nah, you're evaluating him, so just chalk it up to incompatability and next him.

 

Choose wisely from the get go (first couple months) and avoid frustration, dissatisfaction, disappointment, possible hurt and pain later.

 

So those first few months -am I right -you evaluate whether he has the basic stuff you need for potential long term/to continue dating. So that way the talks you might have once you are serious aren't about the basics -you are not teaching him how to be an adult -you are simply fine tuning and tweaking so that he knows your particular wants/needs, etc.

[katrina1980]

So those first few months -am I right -you evaluate whether he has the basic stuff you need for potential long term/to continue dating. So that way the talks you might have once you are serious aren't about the basics -you are not teaching him how to be an adult -you are simply fine tuning and tweaking so that he knows your particular wants/needs, etc.

 

Yup. You got it.

 

To clarify, once in a relationship, you've already determined he is who you want, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually (if that's important to you).

 

You've gotten to know his character (on a basic level anyway) and see him as someone worth pursuing long term.

 

Of course, as in any long term relationship, **** happens, so you discuss it, attempt to resolve it.

 

But during first couple months, you're teaching him how to behave like a grown up, like a decent, respectful human being?

 

Um no, not IMO anyway, just next him!

 

An exception to that would be a woman who's looking to take on a more *mother* type role, but Naomi does not strike me as being that type of woman!

[Seraphim]

I would think it is the way he is raised. Many people with Aspergers would never think to take someone else's food. My son has Aspergers and he would never do that. He was raised with manners . Just remember people are not just a condition. They are also their upbring and talents too. They are their own person.

[annie24]

Wow, I am just catching up with this. Funny that before, you were upset about him staying with his ex. Now, it is abundantly clear that he was just using her as his B+B. geez.

 

I thought about it for a few days, couldn't shake my annoyance, then broke up with him. After I did, he went into the fridge, took out everything that he brought from his home, which included a beer, a stick of butter, and an opened bag of lettuce. Wow. Just wow. He couldn't even leave a freakin stick of butter after all the coffee and milk and sugar and beers, breads, fruits and wonderful gourmet meals and homemade desserts he demolished while he was here. Really classy.

 

This reminds me of the Steve Martin movie "The Jerk." When his gf throws him out, and then he's taking the most random stuff on his way out the door. A chair, a random toy, etc...

[Naomi99]

I would think it is the way he is raised. Many people with Aspergers would never think to take someone else's food. My son has Aspergers and he would never do that. He was raised with manners . Just remember people are not just a condition. They are also their upbring and talents too. They are their own person.

 

I didn't mean to misdiagnose. I apologize. My experience with it is what I saw on Parenthood. TV is typically my source for information.

[Seraphim]

Yeah, don't use TV as a source for conditions. Remeber people are more than a condition .

[tiredofvampires]

I don't think I'd feel I'd done a relationship justice until and unless I had a grande sit-down to say something like: "It really bothers me that as a pattern, you don't seem to respect my boundaries. If I say, don't touch my plate, you continue to. If I say, please don't take this food, you help yourself anyway. I'd like to think that you are a generous person, but I'm starting to feel that it's really all about you and taking, whether or not others have welcomed you to. in a very general way, I feel disrespected, and in your actions, I see disrespect and using other people as well. I wonder if this is something you recognize in yourself at all, and if so, would you care to address it?"

 

Even if he can't and won't change, I'd want to lay it all out. That would feel like an important step towards closure, and finality of understanding.

 

It doesn't seem as clean, that you just piecemeal went about getting upset about this or that. As others have pointed out, there needs to be some heart-to-heart about what's not working, and yes, the specific instances where this is intolerable. And then to just see what his reaction is.

 

Maybe you just intuited that he was unfixable or unchangeable -- and that's probably right. But still, you skipped a major step.

 

Resolve to yourself that next time, you must be more upfront, and not in the sense of blowing up the way you've done.

 

Communication skills is definitely your growing edge. It's not either keep silent and fuming, or come out with a sarcastic and brash accusation. There's something in the middle ground, and it's the only place where you will be HEARD.

 

By the way, I wasn't saying that you've been possessive with your food -- I was saying that perhaps HE saw it as that, and also, he was angry. He didn't take the food with him for it's own sake. It was just a childish impulse, imo. He seems emotionally stunted. When someone breaks up with you, "let me leave my food with her so that she can enjoy it" is not at the top of at the dumpee's mind. Not to mention, he probably didn't like the idea of your throwing out his food the moment he left. Not much a gourmand can do with buttered wilted lettuce.

[Naomi99]

I don't think I'd feel I'd done a relationship justice until and unless I had a grande sit-down to say something like: "It really bothers me that as a pattern, you don't seem to respect my boundaries. If I say, don't touch my plate, you continue to. If I say, please don't take this food, you help yourself anyway. I'd like to think that you are a generous person, but I'm starting to feel that it's really all about you and taking, whether or not others have welcomed you to. in a very general way, I feel disrespected, and in your actions, I see disrespect and using other people as well. I wonder if this is something you recognize in yourself at all, and if so, would you care to address it?"

 

Even if he can't and won't change, I'd want to lay it all out. That would feel like an important step towards closure, and finality of understanding.

 

It doesn't seem as clean, that you just piecemeal went about getting upset about this or that. As others have pointed out, there needs to be some heart-to-heart about what's not working, and yes, the specific instances where this is intolerable. And then to just see what his reaction is.

 

Maybe you just intuited that he was unfixable or unchangeable -- and that's probably right. But still, you skipped a major step.

 

Resolve to yourself that next time, you must be more upfront, and not in the sense of blowing up the way you've done.

 

Communication skills is definitely your growing edge. It's not either keep silent and fuming, or come out with a sarcastic and brash accusation. There's something in the middle ground, and it's the only place where you will be HEARD.

 

By the way, I wasn't saying that you've been possessive with your food -- I was saying that perhaps HE saw it as that, and also, he was angry. He didn't take the food with him for it's own sake. It was just a childish impulse, imo. He seems emotionally stunted. When someone breaks up with you, "let me leave my food with her so that she can enjoy it" is not at the top of at the dumpee's mind. Not to mention, he probably didn't like the idea of your throwing out his food the moment he left. Not much a gourmand can do with buttered wilted lettuce.

 

 

I don't know if I have it in me to sit down and talk. He will be moving at the end of spring anyways and there is no way in hell I am moving with him. Pointless talk? If anything, it may be good practice for me on tactful communication.

 

It's been exactly one week and although I am enjoying my singledom, I will be lying if I said I'm wondering if things would have turned out differently if I voiced my dislike in a softer manner instead of a donkey-kick in his ear each time, "Please don't touch my plate!" "I told you quit wearing your dirty street clothes in my sheets!"

 

I've had plenty of boyfriends and none of them ever wore their dirty street clothes in my bed.

 

I mean, the things he's annoying me are things you'd warn a child about, not a grown man pushing 50.

[abitbroken]

I would think it is the way he is raised. Many people with Aspergers would never think to take someone else's food. My son has Aspergers and he would never do that. He was raised with manners . Just remember people are not just a condition. They are also their upbring and talents too. They are their own person.

 

Agree. And someone with Asperger's would seldom suggest you throw a dinner party in their honor. Everyone on the spectrum is different. there are attention seekers and people who want to hide under a rock, but by and large, I would say that its not consistent to want to eagerly meet ALL of your friends at once for the first time.

[Seraphim]

Agree. And someone with Asperger's would seldom suggest you throw a dinner party in their honor. Everyone on the spectrum is different. there are attention seekers and people who want to hide under a rock, but by and large, I would say that its not consistent to want to eagerly meet ALL of your friends at once for the first time.

 

Absolutely, I don't know many autistics who want to have parties and meet big groups of people or have anything directed towards them. My son can't even stand praise when it's due. And parties and meeting all of someone's friends God,no. He is extremely reclusive.

[annie24]

I don't know if I have it in me to sit down and talk. He will be moving at the end of spring anyways and there is no way in hell I am moving with him. Pointless talk? If anything, it may be good practice for me on tactful communication.

 

It's been exactly one week and although I am enjoying my singledom, I will be lying if I said I'm wondering if things would have turned out differently if I voiced my dislike in a softer manner instead of a donkey-kick in his ear each time, "Please don't touch my plate!" "I told you quit wearing your dirty street clothes in my sheets!"

 

I've had plenty of boyfriends and none of them ever wore their dirty street clothes in my bed.

 

I mean, the things he's annoying me are things you'd warn a child about, not a grown man pushing 50.

 

I think that just telling him what was bothering you might have been constructive, but then again, it might not have. It's entirely possible he's dated other women who didn't mind when he picked off their plates or jumped into bed in their clothes they wore all day. I kind of wonder how his exes were towards him in that regard. On the other hand, he could just be selfish and spoiled and even if you had told him, he might not have integrated it and then thought to split groceries from time to time.

 

It makes me wonder about what batya said about the man who shot his wife over the grilled cheese sandwich. Was it finally the straw that broke the camel's back??

[boltnrun]

My ex husband deliberately and repeatedly tried to get a rise out of me because that's how his dad interacted with his mom. But I was on to him. So when I had to work late and I called to ask him if he'd picked up the kids and he replied "Kids? What kids"? I'd just respond "ok, thanks!"...because I knew he wanted me to get hysterical so he could get his jollies and feel superior to his overly emotional wife. I refused to play along.

 

Guess what? He eventually gave up because he realized I wasn't going to play along and it took all the fun out of his juvenile game. His mom, sadly, never caught on and lived this dynamic with his dad until his dad passed away.

[Annia]

I think you did the right thing breaking up because as we could see from previous threads this relationship weren't making you happy and your "way of life" and values weren't that compatible, regardless if people here agree with the reasons or not.

 

However I think you have some things to improve and you could use this past experience to learn and improve the way you deal with relationship problems and communication issues. In your next relationship you need to learn how to communicate clearly and directly instead of just testing them or expecting people to know and understand how you're feeling and change automatically. People rarely change if you don't address the issues or if you yourself don't change your behavior. You also need to cut down the passive-aggressiveness. This applies not only to boyfriends but also to friends in general.

 

Something like this:

 

- You're not happy with something -> you tell them directly and calmly right away in the appropriate time -> you hear their side of the story and if they agree that they need to change that behavior or not -> you see if they change the behavior you don't like -> if they change, great, if they don't change you decide if you put up with it and let it go, or if it's a deal breaker to you and you break up with them/end the friendship. But if you decide to let it go and put up with said behavior, you don't passively-aggressively stand there full of grudges, you really let it go. And if you can't it's up to you to take some action and perhaps break up if you really can't deal with it.

 

This minimizes the drama and the grudges you hold and it allows you to make informed decisions about who you want by your side or not. Also you show people your boundaries right way and they don't need to guess or assume.

 

Good luck and keep strong.

[Annia]

We didn't talk about the recent friends gathering in specificity, but overall how we were raised differently, different values, and are in different planes in life with different goals. He mentioned that he had been keeping mental note in his mind about how much he spends when we are together because he doesn't want me to feel taken for granted, and that's why he made it a point to drive all the way out to my favorite bakery and buy me a box of pastries. And he realizes he's at my place 95 percent of the time, so he tries to be mindful of keeping his belongings tucked away.

 

He thinks he's doing everything he can, but in my mind, if this is his definition of "doing everything he can," that won't make me happy at all. Buying a box of pastries??? I don't' want to sound ungrateful because that was very thoughtful for him to do it, but turning a blind eye and not chipping in for an event that was thrown at your insistence should be a deal breaker for me. Just tossing over a $20 bill would suffice. I don't' want to be with someone who has to be goaded every single time it has to do with money. That is not a team player. That's a child.

 

Taking the fruit and asking for my power bars (previous posts) without any guilt or reciprocity in your late 40s, that is engrained and will never change. Neither do I want to play the part of someone's mother and teach common social courtesy.

 

But didn't he pay your part for almost all of your dates outside the home? Or you barely went outside of your home?

 

Not saying that I agree with his behavior... I'd never do it and even with friends I always bring something (bottle of wine, something for desert, whatever) when I have dinner at their place and try to help as much as I can. However, I also don't think it's healthy to keep score of which everyone of you does to the other or pays.

 

 

You guys just weren't compatible. He might think he was right and that his actions were normal or that relationship was fair because he payed for most of your dates, but in your mind it wasn't a fair relationship and it was wearing you out and neither of you were willing to compromise without resentment, so you did the right thing breaking up with him.

[tattoobunnie]

I have to disagree with everyone who said she should have communicated her needs more because even if she did clearly say, "I'd like you to do this," every single time she wanted something done, it wouldn't matter because the times she DID speak up, he didn't care. She asks him repeatedly to stop sticking his hands in her food and taking from her plate, he still does it anyway and even brags and laughs about it to her friends! She asks him to stay on his own side of the bed, he purposely goes to her side and whines for 15 minutes. And if she tries to tell him, "I don't like this," he just dismisses her concern, and makes her dissatisfaction fun for him. (I always hated the "You're beautiful/cute when you're angry" phrase in movies).

 

He's selfish and inconsiderate. Maybe some cluelessness may factor in if he grew up never being taught to consider how it feels on the other side of his actions. But that's not your problem. Good riddance.

 

It takes 30 days to create a habit. It takes 90 days for a life change. Things don't always sink in at first, especially if they are use to doing it. I know with me, it can take some things for me to wrap my head around something.

[nutbrownhare]

The comments about how adorable you are when you're angry is a fair indication of how you'd be feeling if you'd stuck with this guy. There are people who think relationships are all about conflict, especially if they're people who can't cope with intimacy, because you can be very close to the person you're fighting with - without feeling vulnerable.

 

Years ago, I'd been on a few dates with a guy... then one time I could sense he was trying to needle me, repeatedly, and in the end I snapped at him. His comment? "Hahaha - it's started! We'll be at it hammer and tongs next time we meet!" My first thought was "And you really think there's going to be a next time...?"

 

There wasn't. I told him gently at the end of the date that it just wasn't going to work. No need to go into details.

[Annia]

The comments about how adorable you are when you're angry is a fair indication of how you'd be feeling if you'd stuck with this guy. There are people who think relationships are all about conflict, especially if they're people who can't cope with intimacy, because you can be very close to the person you're fighting with - without feeling vulnerable.

 

Years ago, I'd been on a few dates with a guy... then one time I could sense he was trying to needle me, repeatedly, and in the end I snapped at him. His comment? "Hahaha - it's started! We'll be at it hammer and tongs next time we meet!" My first thought was "And you really think there's going to be a next time...?"

 

There wasn't. I told him gently at the end of the date that it just wasn't going to work. No need to go into details.

 

People who like seeing you angry or annoyed and think it's funny are just disrespectful. I hate when people don't take me seriously when I'm upset and believe me, I've had my share of people behaving like that. It's just rude.

[notalady]

The comments about how adorable you are when you're angry is a fair indication of how you'd be feeling if you'd stuck with this guy. There are people who think relationships are all about conflict, especially if they're people who can't cope with intimacy, because you can be very close to the person you're fighting with - without feeling vulnerable.

 

Years ago, I'd been on a few dates with a guy... then one time I could sense he was trying to needle me, repeatedly, and in the end I snapped at him. His comment? "Hahaha - it's started! We'll be at it hammer and tongs next time we meet!" My first thought was "And you really think there's going to be a next time...?"

 

There wasn't. I told him gently at the end of the date that it just wasn't going to work. No need to go into details.

 

Sounds like my ex, whom I dated for 6 months. He was expecting conflict and drama right from the start, he was ready to put me in that "drama queen, crazy female making mountain out of mole hills" box right from the start, without even knowing me. So any small thing like "hey next time can you let me know where you sat in the cinema, I couldn't find you for ages, easy enough to send a text?", was enough to trigger an "ah ha! Here she goes! See, all females like to make mountain out of molehills, drama drama!"

 

Suffice to say that didn't work out.

[reinventmyself]

My ex H came from a very large family. I was raised in a quiet, disconnected family with one older brother and a father who was always traveling for work.

 

My ex thrived on drama and stimulation. Growing up with 8 kids there was plenty of it

It took me years to figure this one out but he'd come home and I'd be home with our sons, quietly doing our thing and the calm would make him uncomfortable so he'd stir things up.

 

I pointed out him once, that the boys only cried (when they were little) when he was around.

 

His family was accustomed to teasing to the point of being mean. The sisters were the subject of misogynistic jokes.

He would say something to get a rise out of me and when he got exactly what he wanted, he try to force himself on me, he'd corner me, try to hug me and laugh because it was all in fun, right? There was nothing fun about it.

 

I learned to hide those vulnerable things about myself and try to not react to constant putdowns under the guise of `just having fun'

I ended up with an anxiety disorder because of this and variety of other things.

 

Why am I telling this story? Because there are just some people who get off working other people up.

It doesn't make sense to us but them, it's a normal way of interacting.

 

I divorced him 16 years ago and to this day he still tries to push my buttons. He can't help himself.

[boltnrun]

Yeah, I have some family members who think it's "fun" to taunt one another, get one another riled up, etc. Then they exclaim "Calm down!!!" when they get the desired result.

 

I have one cousin who taunted me over and over about something, to the point where I finally responded "I love you too, cousin!" This cousin finally apologized and said that's just how they are and they mean no harm. But, why is it "fun" to deliberately upset someone you claim to love???

 

One of my exes insisted that it is ONLY possible to have good sex if you get into a screaming fight first. Because then you can have "make up sex", which, to him, was the best kind. I never gave him drama so he dumped me for someone with whom he gets into huge, physical fights followed by passionate reunions. Ick. Not my thing at all.

 

Naomi, seems like this guy not only enjoyed pushing your buttons but knew exactly how. He did this deliberately, wanting you to get angry so he could (condescendingly, IMO) tell you how "adorable" you are when you're angry. And you played right into his hands by giving him the exact reaction he wanted.

 

As for the food-taking thing, he's just being lazy. Imagine if you two lived together, guess who'd be doing all the household chores???

[Naomi99]

I agree with you all about him pushing my buttons, to some extent. I'm not sold entirely on that idea. He does do a lot around the house like washing dishes, fixing my car, fixing the toilet, things like that, and I don't even have to ask him to do it.

 

He is pretty introverted and quiet, for the most part. So experiencing this annoying part of him the last month or so was really shocking, and even now I'm wavering because I wish he could go back to that same reserved and intelligent person I remember him as.

[Naomi99]

He's been texting me as if nothing has happened. Of course, I haven't responded to anything. He's still out of town.

 

He's texting "funny" gifs and memes. Have no idea what for…because they're not funny to me.

[Seraphim]

So,if you have no intention of continuing why not block his number?