Bad Behaviour vs. Clueless, How to Tell the Difference….

[HeartGoesOn]

Unless I'm incorrect in thinking he was a member of the "pen thief gang," I would have dumped him after he stole your pink pens. Either way, Good riddance!

[katrina1980]

Naomi, I for one am glad you dumped him!

 

I posted this on your other thread but I am now convinced that he was consciously aware of what he was doing, and his reason for doing was to stir the pot, and cause drama/chaos.

 

He knows perfectly well how fiery and high strung you are (I mean no disrespect when I say this, I can be too), and would get pissed off, which was precisely his intention.

 

Why? Going back to your very first thread, he may be an adrenaline junkie, and when a RL is running smooth, he becomes bored or whatevs and intentionally does something to "stir it up."

 

Cause a fight, disagreement, drama, chaos.

 

Then once it's over which includes hot make up sex, things are okay for a while, but then once again he becomes bored and needs to stir it up and cause some drama.

 

So he behaves in ways he KNOWS is sure to do just that -- get you fired up, etc. Spending the night at his ex's place, stealing your precious pink pens, the power bar, mooching, grubbing, waiting in the car while you shop and pay for groceries for a party HE suggested??!!! Etc etc etc!

 

I am sorry but no man, unless he is "mentally challenged," is THIS clueless.

 

I and others suggested YOU were the one who was causing drama, but now after this latest incident, you were only responding to his BAD, inconsiderate, disrespectful behavior, and responding accordingly.

 

Which again, was precisely his intention.

 

I dunno, some people are just really screwed up in the head, what can I say.

 

But I know a few guys who are like this, and like you I just nexted them.

 

Lesson learned.

[Naomi99]

Naomi, I for one am glad you dumped him!

 

I posted this on your other thread but I am now convinced that he was consciously aware of what he was doing, and his reason for doing was to stir the pot, and cause drama/chaos.

 

He knows perfectly well how fiery and high strung you are (I mean no disrespect when I say this, I can be too), and would get pissed off, which was precisely his intention.

 

Why? Going back to your very first thread, he may be an adrenaline junkie, and when a RL is running smooth, he becomes bored or whatevs and intentionally does something to "stir it up."

 

Cause a fight, disagreement, drama, chaos.

 

Then once it's over which includes hot make up sex, things are okay for a while, but then once again he becomes bored and needs to stir it up and cause some drama.

 

So he behaves in ways he KNOWS is sure to do just that -- get you fired up, etc.

 

I and others suggested YOU were the one who was causing drama, but now after this latest incident, you were only responding to his BAD, inconsiderate, disrespectful behavior, and responding accordingly.

 

Which again, was precisely his intention.

 

I dunno, some people are just really screwed up in the head, what can I say.

 

But I know a few guys who are like this, and like you I just nexted them.

 

Lesson learned.

 

HOLY SHYYYYTE. You are right. I've asked him not to do things in my house before, and he will say "Okay," then completely disregard what I ask for and do it anyway. And then when I get upset, he will grab my face and kiss me all over and say "You are so adorable when you are angry. I love it." And it infuriates me to the point I don't want him in my bed.

 

Taking my apples so soon after the argument about taking my power bars WHEN HE WAS JUST AT THE GROCERY STORE. He knows we argued over that, so why would he replicate the same situation that caused an argument before? Because he wanted to get a rise out of me.

 

So many more situations where he pushed my boundaries, and upset me to the point I wanted to kick him out of my place, but he would start cuddling up and smooching saying he thinks it's cute when I'm mad. I told him please don't sleep on my side of the bed…I need that side because my dog's ashes are there, plus I like to be able to grab my glasses and kleenex if I need to. Well, guess what? I go to bed and find him lying on my side of the bed saying "ha-ha, I got here first. You have to sleep on the other side."

 

I was like, ?????? It turned into a massive 15-minute argument where he refused to budge. He kept saying "but I want to sleep on your side tonight. I like your side better. You sleep on the other side. Just this one night. Please?" Right I reached my point of no return when he grabs me and starts kissing me saying how cute I am.

 

I don't get it.

 

But Katrina, it fits everything you said.

 

Why would someone purposely irritate the person they supposedly love?

[Batya33]

This whole thing is just ridiculous. I mean he is. He's not clueless and I agree with Katrina and fudgie and the whole gang who responded like them. My husband has been known to hide a snack cake in the freezer but he is also the one who will not dare finish anything - especially a dessert - without checking whether I would like more or simply leaving half of what is left over in case I want some. And please - that is gross to sip from your coffee - that's what little kids do the first time or so they want to try coffee. Or of course if you said "you must try this" then sure. My husband sent me a news article the other day about a guy who shot his wife for eating his grilled cheese ( something like that ). A bit extreme.

[katrina1980]

Well, all I can surmise is that some people (specifically adrenaline junkies like I suggested he was -- from what you posted in your first thread) become bored easily and as such enjoy stirring things up, seeing their partners all fired up/angry.

 

It excites them, gets their adrenaline (and sexual juices) flowing, as indicated here by him announcing how "cute and adorable" you are when mad and how much he "loves" it!

 

Yeah you were definitely right to dump him.

 

If I have any advice, is that next time a guy tells you how "cute" and "adorable" you are after HE does something to piss you off, don't stick around for more.

 

Next him immediately, it won't get better.

[journeynow]

I thought about it for a few days, couldn't shake my annoyance, then broke up with him.

 

Good. Bottom line, you two are incompatible.

 

You know the irony? If he reached for his wallet and tried to pay, I most likely would have said, "Oh sweetie…it's okay. Just take me out to see Resident Evil tomorrow."

 

Don't do that! Learn the lesson, be preemptive, avoid the buildup of annoyance and resentment AND ACCEPT should someone offer to contribute. You want a team mate, accept a team mate. Practice, practice, practice. Don't play the doormat then get angry that you are being treated like one. Metaphorically, you'd been letting him eat your cake off your plate. So he didn't take you seriously when he did it literally and you objected.

[reinventmyself]

Some people just equate the intensity or the high of drama as love.

In those calm moments when they should otherwise feel contentment, they stir things up to create the dramatic cycle again.

It makes them feel alive.

[journeynow]

I think katrina1980 might be right, he pushes limits, it's what he does. He's the adventurous guy? Adventure is pushing limits, and he does it with people, too. I'm glad for you that you put your foot down and ended it. I hope you are able to shake free and put him behind you.

[journeynow]

I'm super sad this did not work out, because he seemed to be pretty much everything I wanted. I'm numb right now. Numb and sad over the breakup.

 

What qualities did he have that you wanted? He certainly wasn't "everything" you wanted, but some of what he had you liked. Those parts, those are about your values, so those are a part of you and are not gone. Just try to find ways to honor them yourself, as much as possible, even if you have to find new ways to do so. The ways he fell short are important, too, because they also point out your values, and those are part of you. Those values are worth highlighting in your mind, and honoring when you meet someone new. Because you want to find someone you are compatible with.

[Naomi99]

Yes, he was the adventurous guy, but now I'm seeing maybe his "adventurous" side is more of an "I'm too cheap to pay for niceties, so I will rough it and use Starbucks napkins for toilet paper" side.

 

Let's see, why was he everything I wanted? Well, he was extremely attentive and observant and seemed mindful in the beginning. No kids, no ex-wives, no crazy ex-gfs, barely any baggage. Super educated, hot hot body, great sexual chemistry, closer to my age than what I'm used to. Responsible, strong, masculine, not pretentious or arrogant. Makes the best of bad situations, pretty positive, helps needy people way more than I care to.

 

he is way more empathetic than I am…to everyone except for me.

[boltnrun]

But doesn't he also have a history of a lot of short-lived relationships?

 

Maybe all those other exes saw what you see.

 

When you say "helps needy people", do you mean he contributes to charitable foundations and does volunteer work? Or do you mean he gives a couple of bucks to the homeless guy on the corner?

 

I'm not sure he lacks empathy with you, but rather likes to rile you up. And is fine with allowing you to foot the bill for things he likes but won't buy for himself.

 

Out of curiosity, was it only food items he helped himself to? Or did he take toiletries, toilet paper, etc.?

 

I never buy cheap TP. I only buy the expensive soft cushy stuff. One of my male friends never had any and when he came over he always wanted to take a roll of my TP with him to take home, because when he DID get around to buying some it was the cheap scratchy kind. But since I wasn't dating him and didn't care what kind of impression I made on him, I'd just yell "buy your own!!"

[katrina1980]

Deleted....

[boltnrun]

beachlover, I am actually really scared for you now.

 

I mentioned this on one of your other numerous "what does this mean" threads, and honestly and truly, I mean no disrespect, but do you think or have you been diagnosed with some sort of social disorder or learning disability that would prevent or limit you from applying logic, care, and basic common sense to the decisions you make?

 

I mean it's just one thread after another, and in this particular case you are really jeopardizing your own well being by inviting yourself over to these guys' houses for a casual hook up during the first meet.

 

Do you live alone or with your parents? If you live with your parents, what do they think?

 

Do you have anyone to talk to about your feelings and decisions other than on this and other forums?

 

I hope my saying these things didn't offend you, like I said, reading all your posts and really am quite scared for you at this point.

 

Katrina, I think you may have posted this on the wrong thread...

[Naomi99]

But doesn't he also have a history of a lot of short-lived relationships?

 

Maybe all those other exes saw what you see.

 

When you say "helps needy people", do you mean he contributes to charitable foundations and does volunteer work? Or do you mean he gives a couple of bucks to the homeless guy on the corner?

 

I'm not sure he lacks empathy with you, but rather likes to rile you up. And is fine with allowing you to foot the bill for things he likes but won't buy for himself.

 

Out of curiosity, was it only food items he helped himself to? Or did he take toiletries, toilet paper, etc.?

 

I never buy cheap TP. I only buy the expensive soft cushy stuff. One of my male friends never had any and when he came over he always wanted to take a roll of my TP with him to take home, because when he DID get around to buying some it was the cheap scratchy kind. But since I wasn't dating him and didn't care what kind of impression I made on him, I'd just yell "buy your own!!"

 

 

He helped himself to anything and everything here. He used MY wrapping paper to wrap his christmas gift to me, and he used MY BLANK CHRISTMAS CARDS and gave them back to me as a christmas card from him!!! Can you imagine receiving a gift and card that is wrapped with your own paper and receiving a card from your BF that you picked out???? We are not married and we were barely BF/GF back then, weird. I remember being highly irritated back then but just thought he didn't have time to get all that stuff. Now I realize he's cheap. And I do not mean to be a terrible person, but his christmas gift was so embarrassing, I cringe and get a stomach ache every I think about it.

 

He even goes so far as to use my stamps and I want to slap him because I ran out.

 

The majority of his relationships were short-lived and/or long distance. Lots of cheating, which surprises me.. He seemed very loyal with me…like 20 phone calls a day and texts up to my eyeballs, always checking in, asking am I okay, telling me about his day, spending every free moment with me despite his free time being scarce. Even right now, it's been a few days ago since we broke up, and he is still texting me trying to weasel his way back into my heart.

[katrina1980]

Katrina, I think you may have posted this on the wrong thread...

 

Oops! And thanks! I deleted it.

[boltnrun]

He helped himself to anything and everything here. He used MY wrapping paper to wrap his christmas gift to me, and he used MY BLANK CHRISTMAS CARDS and gave them back to me as a christmas card from him!!! Can you imagine receiving a gift and card that is wrapped with your own paper and receiving a card from your BF that you picked out???? We are not married and we were barely BF/GF back then, weird. I remember being highly irritated back then but just thought he didn't have time to get all that stuff. Now I realize he's cheap. And I do not mean to be a terrible person, but his christmas gift was so embarrassing, I cringe and get a stomach ache every I think about it.

 

He even goes so far as to use my stamps and I want to slap him because I ran out.

 

The majority of his relationships were short-lived and/or long distance. Lots of cheating, which surprises me.. He seemed very loyal with me…like 20 phone calls a day and texts up to my eyeballs, always checking in, asking am I okay, telling me about his day, spending every free moment with me despite his free time being scarce. Even right now, it's been a few days ago since we broke up, and he is still texting me trying to weasel his way back into my heart.

 

And you still found him attractive and wanted to continue seeing him???

 

How about you politely ask him to stop contacting you, then block him?

[Naomi99]

And you still found him attractive and wanted to continue seeing him???

 

How about you politely ask him to stop contacting you, then block him?

 

Yes, because at that time, there were other qualities I saw that outweighed the bad ones. Now a month later after christmas, it's compounded and I realize he's worse than I ever imagined.

[katrina1980]

 

The majority of his relationships were short-lived and/or long distance. Lots of cheating, which surprises me..

 

This goes along with my earlier theory about him getting bored and need to cause drama.

 

Either he got bored and ended it...because instead of his gfs getting fired up like he wanted, they simply "played nice" and let it go, which caused him to become bored .... and cheated to get his adrenaline thrill that way .... OR they got fed up like you and dumped him.

[boltnrun]

So are you going to ask him to stop contacting you?

[notalady]

Cheating by him or women he'd been dating? A bit confused as you went on to say how loyal he is.

 

If he was the one that cheated, why did you even date him to begin with?

[Naomi99]

So are you going to ask him to stop contacting you?

No. I already told him I'm moving on right when he left my house. I'm done.

Actually going out to dinner tonight with a guy I dated a long time ago. It will be refreshing to have my own plate.

[Naomi99]

Cheating by him or women he'd been dating? A bit confused as you went on to say how loyal he is.

 

If he was the one that cheated, why did you even date him to begin with?

 

According to him, they all cheated.

I didn't say he was loyal. I said he seemed to be with all of the keeping in touch type behavior, there's no space to be even cheating.

[notalady]

According to him, they all cheated.

I didn't say he was loyal. I said he seemed to be with all of the keeping in touch type behavior, there's no space to be even cheating.

 

You said "he seemed very loyal with me". Maybe a miscommunication there.

 

Anyway, keeping in touch all the time and checking "are you ok" seems too much to me. But anyway, that doesn't prevent cheating, unless he's physically watching over them 24/7, which of course would indicate bigger problems lol..

 

Also I wouldn't take his word for it. I'm always skeptical when someone claims "everyone of my ex cheated" considering they are the common denominator there (eg that could be their erroneous impression, or they could be lying, or they could just be very suspicious person, or they just pick the wrong person every single time).

[tiredofvampires]

I think when you get to the point that you see your boyfriend's finger as "gross" when it's stuck in things, it's over.

 

I think he's been really ungentlemanly, but the worst thing I've read in this thread so far is him continuing to stick his hands in your plate when you've told him not to, and then joking about it. Like, he has no respect or regard for your wishes.

 

Good riddance.

 

I don't know whether he took out his food from the fridge because he couldn't part with it...or whether it was more like a "you've been possessive about your food all this time -- now I'm going to be" gesture.

 

The only thing I'd suggest is that you be very clear about what patterns you find upsetting, and I'm not sure whether you actually had a calm conversation about these problems and how you feel. Talking about how you were raised isn't the same as talking about the incidents themselves, and trying to come to an understanding about expectations. But if he isn't interested in respecting your wishes plainly stated about how not to touch your food, I think it's probably a lost cause.

 

I'm also wondering if you might have thrown yourself in with this guy knowing that eventually it would have to end, and that you didn't have a long-term chance of being happy with him (if he's moving); and so, you sort of set yourself up for whatever flaws to play out to get unbearable. I think in the back of your mind, your clock was ticking against him -- it wasn't a question of if you'd be done with him, but when. So in a way...I don't know if you were being completely honest with yourself. Or him. Hard to do when you're enjoying being adored.

 

In a way, it seems that the kind of guy he was, to ask you out to just go with him on a roadtrip, was your first sign. And you just wanted it to be this freewheeling time with no commitments and this hedonistic adventure. Well, you got freewheeling, alright. This is what's on the other side of freewheeling. It seems as though what drew you to him was exactly what doomed it, and you were sort of expecting a fantasy adventure for its own sake to translate into relationship material, and in that, you were miscalculating.

 

We only find out these things by hindsight sometimes, but maybe next time, if you're going for something based on sheer thrill factor, or "chemistry", be careful what you ask for. The similarity with the doctor is that there was a level of irresponsibility and immaturity in both cases -- not a mature and serious approach to grounding relationships, but rather, enjoying "highs". It's no surprise that they both end up being more like children.

 

So, "thrills" and great excitement/high romance/displays of storybook/movie level drama and intrigue is your kryptonite (the doctor was someone of prestige and status whose suave glow you could bask in; this guy was wildly exciting for being so spontaneous -- and neither of those promise stability), and just be aware that if you fall for it, you're on to something that's likely to end badly. I think you need a new gauge in assessing who to get involved with.

 

I am not with anyone now, but I do know that early vetting for me HAS to involve building a bond that is 50/50 emotionally trusting and pragmatically resonant. Both elements have to be there.

[catfeeder]

Clueless = change when behavior is commented on and person is asked to change. Bad behavior = no change if asked, "put up or shut up".

 

^^ Here is the distinction you asked for, Naomi. Sure, we all need to learn about a lovers' default behaviors and attitudes, and then we can decide whether it's possible to negotiate from there.

 

That's not the same thing as setting someone up. A setup is when we suspect something about a person and, rather than negotiating to fix it, or walking away based on a lack of trust or respect, we position them badly to 'catch' them in a fail.

 

I think you were still in the first scenario, the learning phase, but you might find it helpful in the future when you're really on the guy's side, to learn whether reasonable negotiation can help your relationship along. You already observed a hoarding mentality in the guy. You gave him the benefit of doubt by remaining with him only to further observe a total lack of generosity.

 

I can appreciate why that's just not fixable for you. The guy is 40, not 20. If he's still operating like a financially impaired 20 year old--with everyone and in front of everyone--that's probably not something a request for half a food bill will change.

 

My heart goes out to you for the disappointment, but you're smart and will find a better match for you. I'd just take some pearls from this discussion about learning how to put your observations on the table kindly and negotiate those.