Batya33

When it comes to love - watch the feet not the lips- what he does not what he says. Assume he is sincere in what he said, but what is truly relevant is what he does that shows love.

I followed most of the "Rules" and the "he's not into you' since approximately 1982. The rules was published in 1994 or so by the way. Nothing to do with books - those books just confirm what is generally the case with few exceptions. I think there is nothing wrong with a man who doesn't ask me out - nothing obnoxious. I do think people let themselves be lead on by members of the opposite sex by ignoring or choosing to misread signs of non-interest. In my experience (and those of everyone I know) most men, with few exceptions, will ask you out on a proper date if they are available for a relationship and emotionally available. I know of no happy healthy long term relationships where the woman did most of the initial pursuing - that is, asked the man out on most of the early dates - the first month or so - made most of the plans for the couple, etc. It is very hard to ask someone out - no doubt - as I have done it and were it effective would have done it more often (I now have a boyfriend) - but most men (not all, I am sure there are a few exceptions) - who are emotionally stable will find the courage to ask a woman out for a cup of coffee if he is that interested. Of course the woman should behave in an approachable and friendly way to ease the risk, etc. If a man is that terrified to do this in these circumstances either he has significant social issues in general (and is not ready to date) or he is not interested enough to risk feeling scared. Again I am sure there are men who are available, interested, and for some reason insist on the woman doing most of the pursuing - (that man wouldn't be my type, but that's ok) but I have never met any like that. In addition, I think men are very flattered by being asked out and pursued - that's not the issue - I am talking about the effectiveness of pursuing a man with whom you think you can see yourself long term or at least for more than a fling. If all one wants is a fling, then why not be up front and do most of the pursuing.

My point was for her to shift focus from victimhood and pining to creating a safe "nest" for this child - my point was not to place blame or get her to admit a mistake.

Sounds to me like the excitement is all - or mostly - physical/sexual. Do you feel excited/enthusiastic when you talk to her? When she confides in you? I think sexual excitement is mostly between the ears, so that if you are truly passionate about someone you can kiss exactly the same over and over again and it's still exciting. No, it might not be as exciting as the first few times but because the relationship develops into more facets and levels, it doesn't have to be - it is not the focus. Of course, spice it up if you like, but the best situation would be if you are not such an "excitement" junkie and focus more on getting to know her and seeing if you enjoy the (possibly quieter) passion and excitement from feeling a connection.

It is always possible to get pregnant unless you are abstaining and it is common knowledge that pulling out is not an effective method of bc and neither is the sponge. I hope you get past this "victim" stage soon for the good of your child. You had the choice all along not to get involved, not to stay involved, not to risk pregnancy. Don't you want your child and future child to have a role model who takes responsibility for her actions? Please focus on what is best for your child, whether you choose to terminate the pregnancy or otherwise. Right now you don't have the time to indulge yourself with romantic notions of what could have been or what could be with this man - you gave up that luxury when you chose to risk pregnancy.

I would stop focusing on the man and focus all your energies on how you are going to provide for the best interests of the child now that you have chosen to get pregnant in this situation. Your child deserves at least that much, in my humble opinion.

" Of course they do. It saves their pride. I find it fine to say to myself - ok, he's not that into me - doesn't mean he's not great for someone else or a great person. Look, you want to hear that it's ok to ask him out. Of course it's ok. I am just quite certain from your description that it will be ineffective because my guess is he is not interested in a relationship with you or by now he would have asked you out on a proper date. He may very well say yes and go out with you a few times, maybe even be intimate with you and date you for a few months. But when he meets someone who knocks his socks off, he will pursue her. I would invest my time in a man who is willing to put in the effort of risking rejection (as I have done) and asking you out at least to have coffee. He clearly knows you are interested by now - you've contacted him, etc so there's little risk if indeed he is interested. All I can tell you - when you meet someone who is that interested you will say "aha - this is the way it's supposed to feel!" Good luck!

I find that often lawyers are targets of negativity, generalizations, etc. I am sure there are other professions that similarly are targeted but of course since I am the one being targeted I guess I notice it more ;-). It's easy to lash out against a group of people who in general are financially successful or, if they do public interest law, at least know they have decent earning potential if they choose to go private. Maybe to some that financial success seems unfair or that it was unfairly achieved. Who knows. Also of course "bad" lawyers are often profiled in the media - it makes news - so people might generalize from what they read or see.

Knowing yourself is not the same thing as set in your ways. I know 20 year olds who are rigid and 40 year olds (like me!) who are constantly learning and open to learning (especially from my significant other, a very wise and insightful person indeed).

You act like you're the victim but please keep in mind that you chose to see him and chose to be intimate with him. The "but I'm in love" doesn't take away from your choices. This is a good thing - since it is your choice, you can choose to make better choices. Is this all worth risking an STD and pregnancy?

I think it is a shame when people label someone who is non-assertive/wishy washy/doormat-ish as "nice." Often that is not based on niceness at all - it is based on insecurity or a need to manipulate as in - I will say yes to everything you want and then I will use it as a form of control. To me a person who is nice is nice to himself/herself, is reasonably confident and assertive and is giving from the healthy sense of caring not from insecurity. If we referred to the doormat types as "doormat guys" instead of "nice guys" then it wouldn't suggest that the women who don't like these so-called "nice" guys are the ones with the problem. Thanks.

It sounds like you jump in very fast because you need to have a boyfriend and become intimate before you have developed a solid sense of trust and intimacy - emotional intimacy. Why the rush? If you really think about it my guess is it is not from how you feel about the other person but how you feel about yourself - vulnerable and needy without someone you can call your "man" or your "boyfriend." This makes you vulnerable to men who take advantage of a needy person as he may be doing and after awhile they will see you as clingy.

Here's the real problem - you are vulnerable because for some crazy reason you think you have to have someone in your life to be a worthy person. Of course you can see your ex as a friend - and no, don't be manipulative and tell your bf about that - meet him in a public place and hear what he has to say. Then, if you decide to give things another shot, break up with the current boyfriend first and take at least a few weeks off with dating no one, being in contact with neither of them - be with yourself. If you don't feel fulfilled on your own you will risk making poor choices in a mate because it will be out of need which is not a basis for a long term relationship. As far as the immaturity - this is who he is. Accept it or not. He may "grow up" over the years, he may not.

Call it biology or whatever, but I am not attracted to a man who is not confident enough to ask me out for at least a drink or cup of coffee. I also tend to doubt his sincere interest in me if he is not willing to do that. I may be a professional "by day," but when it comes to relationships I am pretty traditional - I want the man to be "stronger" than me and ready to be assertive and step up to the plate - no "yes men" or doormats for me, thank you! I have no real problem getting up the nerve to ask a man out - I've done it several times and if I thought it was effective in finding a long term relationship, I would have done it more often. Take "FWB" as an example - typically, the woman ends up getting attached or wanting more, or agreed to be involved in that situation with the secret hope that it would develop into more. So, in that situation ostensibly the man and woman call each other 50/50 - when either of them wants sex - but more than likely it ends up being uneven because the woman wants more.

Good point that the pursuit takes different forms. I guess for these purposes I would define "pursuit" as the man calling the woman and asking her out for a date - I do not know of any healthy long term relationships where the woman did most of the asking in the first month or so of the relationship. As my mother used to say, half kidding, "you have to chase men and then let them catch you." I think a lot of confusion results from women who claim not to need the traditional or conventional path of dating - letting the man pursue - and make excuses as to why the man isn't pursuing (he's very busy, he's shy, etc) - but in reality end up feeling uncomfortable if they need to be the aggressor, do the asking, the planning (and I suppose the treating). I see this also come up with women who claim to be ok with casual sex but secretly expect the man to then ask them out on a proper date or pursue them as if they wanted more than just sex. These are some of the reasons I think it works out best most of the time if men do most of the asking out in the beginning and women respond with enthusiasm, etc so that there is less of a risk of miscommunication in the beginning. True, this puts more of the onus on the man but if the woman is behaving in an approachable way, the risk of rejection is less.

I meant doing most of the pursuing in the beginning - and by that I mean most of the asking out and initiating telephone calls in the beginning - I wouldn't consider writing to someone online to express interest much of a "pursuit" at all and certainly not "most of the pursuing" if the guy responds with an invitation for a date. I realize I didn't define "most of" the pursuing. As far as bringing up the exclusivity issue - for me it has just so happened that where I am the one who brings it up first, the relationship usually doesn't work out. Typically I have brought it up first where the man wanted me to sleep with him, something I will not do outside of an exclusive relationship. Having said that, I would say it depends on the circumstances. If the couple has been dating for awhile and the man hasn't brought it up yet I see nothing wrong with raising the issue. I would wonder a little if the woman brought it up right in the beginning.

Just keep in mind that the closeness you feel with this person is based on typing and talking - it takes consistent time in person to know whether that closeness translates into real life compatibility. You can talk till you're out of breath but until you are in each other's presense and see his body language, vibes, energy, the way he treats people - his family, waitstaff, co-workers, bosses, the elderly lady ahead of you on line - the way he treats you in person - what he is like - in person - when he is ecstatic, sad, mad, annoyed, edgy, etc. - he is virtually a complete stranger to you as far as knowing whether the two of you have in person chemistry and compatibility. That he is moving here puts incredible pressure that is not needed. Please reconsider - it is so worth the $ to meet in person several times over the next few months and see what you have in common. I know of so many stories - including my own - where typing and talking were irrelevant to whether you clicked in person. Added to that all the safety issues - you have no idea if he is who he says he is - and you're taking unecessary risks here, in my humble opinion. I hope when he gets here you meet him in a public place and do not let him come to your place or get in your car until you've been out on at least a few dates.

I think it's interesting how initiating contact on line is seen as analogous to a woman asking a man out on a date. I personally don't see it that way at all - if I spoke first to a man in public and then he asked me out, I would have said that he initiated asking me out. I agree that no one should "chase" - the woman should meet the man half way by saying yes to the date, being appreciative about the date, saying thank you and being a good listener, all of that encouragement. Playing games like making the guy wait days before you return his call, pretending to be busy even if he asks you out in advance - just to "play" hard to get I personally find silly (even though I am sure I have done it at least once in my life and it has been done to me!)

I would say probably many in answer to your question but I wonder (don't mean to steal your thread!) how many long term healthy/happy relationships/marriages result from the woman doing most of the pursuing in the beginning - not just asking out for the first date. Of course, please don't answer my question if you find the OP's question more interesting or relevant, it's just that I had posed my question to the OP in a different thread she started. My answer to my own question is I know of none.

I don't buy all the cliches "when you're not looking, it will happen . . " etc-[ I know plenty of happily married couples who were proactive in finding someone - either through on line or getting involved in a hobby where there was a high likelihood of single men being there. What is good to know is that the people you believe would be right for you at 26 may very well be entirely different from the people who will be right for you in 5 or 10 years. Definitely true for me as well as for several of my friends who got married in their 20s and are now divorced. I would avoid abstract notions like fate and soulmates and other cliches and focus on the concrete- you are the common denominator in all your relationships. Consider whether anything you do might be an issue and consider whether your criteria for a mate are realistic and reasonable. For example, at 26 I would never have imagined I would be attracted to a significantly overweight man but at 36, I sure was. At 26 I was ignorant of the importance of chemistry and physical attraction in finding a mate - i was just so focused on getting married and picking mr. right on paper - at 40 I know that chemistry and physical attraction are essential to a long term relationship. There are other changes I have experienced which impact who I am attracted to and even who I want as close friends. So, don't sabotage yourself by having such a chip on your shoulder - if at all possible. It is not a competition. One of my friends who got married a few weeks ago -first time - will be 40 in a few weeks - barely dated after college, joined a dating site in early 2005, met the love of her life a month later.

I think most men are flattered by a woman who pursues them in the beginning. I also think few of those men are going to choose that woman to be in a long term relationship with. If he is already interested, he most likely will ask you out unless he is unavailable or has serious emotional problems (and then, why bother?) - if he is not interested you pursuing him will flatter him and maybe result in a brief fling but that's probably about it. Of course we're all human and it is very "human" for "most" men that they prefer to be the main pursuer in the beginning - if the woman takes that role away their interest level might be the same but they may end up a little confused about the woman (i.e. wondering if perhaps she is desperate, or too aggressive for them, etc). So, I have always preferred to let the man do the asking and planning in the very beginning and once we are an "item" I am of course happy to meet him at least halfway. I also have no issue with you asking him to participate in a group outing (if he calls you) or to mention a movie or party you'd like to go to. The men are telling you to ask him out because that makes it a lot easier for the man. If you think about it in the long term though, if making it easier now risks that he may be turned off/not interested in a woman who does the pursuing you will not get what you want. Instead, ask men "how many men do you know in happy long term relationships where the woman did most of the pursuing in the beginning (or throughout)." That's the relevant question in my opinion.

I know of many people who come on very strong on the first few dates - they get caught up in the romance/puppy love, etc and then realize just as quickly that that is all it was. This is why a thick skin is essential for dating.

Same here - I would date someone who was the same religion as me (I am not Catholic) even if he was a different race.

I agree with the age difference issue and even with e-mail and texting etc I still think the best way to ask out a woman you have sincere interest in is to call her on the phone. In part, had you done so you would have a quick answer to your question.

Most men I know express that opinion when they want to flatter the woman but be off the hook as far as having to tell the woman that she is not the right match for him. I think this is the same guy you posted about on another thread where you described him as very shy but in my opinion he was not shy at all, just, unfortunately, not "that" interested in you to ask you out. I have heard the whole "educated, successful professional women are intimidating." I am one of those. I don't think I have ever intimidated a man who was a good match for me. If you truly believe you come accross as intimidating, I would consider whether your body language is friendly (not flirty, just not cold) and whether you are judging your impression by the impression you give off at a bar. I find that a bar is typically a bad place to make the right impression because if you are drunk well, then, you might give the wrong impression and if you are not and the man is you might come accross as uptight. In any event, most guys who already got the woman in question to kiss them would have no problem asking out the woman since the most important question - attraction - would be answered for them. Moreover, he works at a bar and flirts a lot I am sure with many of the customers - not an example of a guy who is intimidated or that shy that he can't ask out a woman who is as available to him as you are (since you kissed him).