Prufrock06

I think your concern is certainly legitimate, as it's a concern of mine (and something I tried to bring up in that threat about what gay guys want but didn't get the message accross as well as you have) as well. Media stereotypes were a big factor in keeping me in the closet even to myself. For the longest time, I thought that if I wasn't too feminine, wasn't obsessed with dancing and clubbing and the bar scene, wasn't Abercrombie & Fitch-looking enough, then I had no business being a gay guy or considering myself a part of that community. Of course, in hindsight I was dead wrong, but it took me along time to come to this realization. I used to watch QAF all the time and I'll still turn it on once in a while (mostly to drool over the cute guys) but I always found myself identifying with the married couple on that show as opposed to the club goers and the bedroom rotaters. Same with Will & Grace -- "I'm nothing like that so I can't be gay!" I would always say to myself, haha. I still think that most realistic, down-to-earth media representation of gay guys is on Six Feet Under, especially the cop Keith. But anyway, back to vanity: there's nothing wrong with taking care of yourself and taking the time to look nice and presentable. As you mentioned, you grew up with that ingrained in you, so maybe personal hygeine is more a product of your upbringing than your sexuality. Now that I'm confident, I take much better care of myself and I do, sometimes, pick out nice preppy clothes (that's my style, more or less) but I can still walk around during the summer with shorts and a t-shirt and not feel any less "stylin'". I feel like I would be this way even if I wasn't gay. "Why is vanity so prevelant in certain circles of the gay community? I try to be very open in who I could possibly be attracted to. There are certain things that I'm just not attracted to(too much body hair and morbid obesity), but they can be changed by simply getting a wax job and running on the treadmill...Otherwise, I am more than willing to give someone a chance as he could be the person for me. I'm not ugly at all(infact, people always say that I have a cute babyface...not bragging), but I know I'm not some huge gym stud either...Although I'm not really attracted to guys that are way too buff." Guys like us, who broaden our horizons and give almost any guy a chance as long as his personality is compatible, are certainly in the minority. In fact, I would argue that anyone in the 13-30 range who thinks like that, regardless of sexuality, is a minority in a sense. Our culture puts too much of a premium on physical perfection -- I'm not talking about looking cute or attractive or handsome, I'm talking about the kind of bodies you see in movies and on billboards, the kind that lead to eating disorders and other horrible issues -- and reading through your post makes me realize how proud I am (and you should be too) that I'm willing to look outside the lines when it comes to finding someone to spend time with in a relationship, that at the end of the day it's better to pass over perfection for someone reliable and honest and decent and kind and ___________ [fill in the blank with whatever adjective attracts you]. Perfect bodies are nice to look at in the context of pornography and private fantasy, but I think realistically it's important for gay guys to lower their expectations, at least to the point where they're not basing their desires on the hot bodies on QAF or America's Top Male Model or whatever. At least, I feel that's the only way someone like me, who falls into the cute/handsome category but by no means the ultra-hot-stud category, is ever going to have a chance in this seemingly cut-throat world of gay dating. I wonder, then, if this vanity is so seemingly widespread because almost every gay guy has some insecurities about the way he looks, the way he's presenting himself to a potential boyfriend/husband. It only looks like vanity when you take it on a mass scale -- when you bring it down to the individual case, though, I think most gay guys aren't vain so much as they are terrified of not looking their best all the time because that's what they think (and what culture has trained them to think) is what other gay guys are looking for.

That's so awesome, FoxLocke!! I'm sure writing that email and coming out to your cousin took a lot of guts but hopefully the dialogue between the two of you is paying off -- and now you have another outlet for support, and someone in your own family, no less! Writing to him and sharing your concerns with him was probably the best move you could have made at this stage! Yeah, I understand where you're coming from in regards to talking about how bottling up our sexuality reflects itself on our own personalities and attitudes. Though I never tried to kill myself, I certainly used to have frequent suicidal thoughts and ideations (I believe that's the term for fantasizing about what it would be like to kill yourself). I don't think I acted on those impulses because I was too afraid of going to Hell for killing myself and also afraid of what would happen to me after I died (if anything). I used to be such a bitter and angry person -- I was overweight, depressed most of the time, hated myself for being depressed and overweight and (most importantly) gay. It got so bad that a year ago, I was suffering from panic and anxiety attacks and ended up walking to the hospital at school at around 1 in the morning because I thought I was going to die from a heart attack. Of course, my heart was fine and the real problem was all this underlying stress and the supression of my real, honest (and most definitely valid) self. And since I started dealing with my stress and I used to see a counselor, I eventually learned to treat myself with much more respect. I lost all the depression weight, began working on a more positive attitude about myself, and eventually admitted to myself over the summer that I was gay and that was OK, that I could still be just as worthy a person as everyone else considered me to be beforehand. I'm glad you realize that you don't need to abandon your faith (which seems to be a really strong aspect of your personality) in order to be happy with yourself as a gay guy. Of course, there is always room for your own evaluation and interpretation of scripture and the Christian faith -- if others in the past have shaped religion to meet their own needs or to meet the changing times, then you should be able to do the same in order to adapt your faith to your own life, a life that mainstream Christianity (as well as other religions) certainly has issues with. Words of wisdom.

That's cool, mgirl. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were speaking in shades of gray instead of black and white. But thanks for clarifying. And it is important to note that what makes this all the more trickier and frustrating is that there aren't two poles to which people can gravitate, but all these spots in between as well. Thanks everyone for your comments and advice so far! Needless to say, I always feel better after sharing my thoughts and feelings with you all.

"All in all, physical aspects are essential but as I've said in many posts, when looks are taken away by age or accident we're left with the core of every person, who they truly are inside, their personality and that makes a lot of how a person is in the end result." I completely agree, and this is why I personally stress personality over looks -- even though my concern sometimes is whether other people feel the same way. I mean, a committed relationship means not bailing out when the wrinkles start forming or the hair starts thining. I've always felt that "dirty old men" are born because they can't handle adapting to the evolution of age; in other words, these men are in it only on a superficial, completely physical level and once that becomes "unappealing," the process becomes kind of developmentally halted. But perhaps my theories on "dirty old men" are best left in another post But anyway, I hope I'm not coming off as a wet blanket or someone fishing for compliments (and how could I, considering all you know of me is from these posts?) -- I was more interested in posing this as a discussion question even though it was sponsored in part by real feelings I have sometimes, which is why I regret giving the thread the title "what do guys want from me" when the real subject should be "what do guys want from other guys". I would consider myself the second "class" of gay man that mgirl speaks of, which is probably why I find it so frustrating to deal with this desire to start meeting people. I know at the end of the day these ideas of superficiality and desire for achieving perfection are rooted in stereotypes (though there are certainly cases like this in the real world) -- but knowing and believing are two different things. I guess I just need some work on believing that there are guys around there my age who have the same relationship interests as I do.

From what you've written, it seems like you need to listen to your head in this case. I get the sense that this guy is going through a rough period concerning his sexuality, and while that's a perfectly normal position to be in, it's not considerate of him to have to string you along in an effort to prove to himself that he isn't gay. He sounds really really confused and if it bothers you that much, then maybe a little separation is needed for both of you to maybe clear your heads a little (and for him to try and deal with his sexuality without having to emotionally harm you). Granted, you should be a little patient with him because he is going through a tough period -- but at the same time that doesn't excuse his manipulation of your relationship just to try and "convince" himself that he's not potentially gay. Hope this helps!

I'm in something of a mild funk this afternoon and figured this was the best place to voice some of my concerns. I've made one of my New Year's resolutions to start dating and meeting gay guys either for dates or hopefully an eventual relationship. So I guess my first concern is looking for any advice/suggestions on dating in gay circles. Are there any major differences in heterosexual versus homosexual dating? And so in thinking about this, I guess I've been thinking more and more about what guys want from other guys, what other gay guys find attractive and worth investing time in dating and a relationship. I was too closeted in the past to even think about flirting with another guy, let alone date one -- and so now that I finally feel like I have enough self-confidence to start dating, I have no idea where to start or what to do. I've thought about trying to meet people on the Internet or through some online community like facebook or myspace or one of those deals but when I scout through the pictures and profiles, I feel this overwhelming sense of dread -- like along the lines of thinking, "what could I possible have that would keep the interest of so-and-so" or "how can I compete with so many perfect specimens of the male form?" I mean, I consider myself to be cute and attractive but certainly not physically perfect, like I stepped out of an Abercrombie and Fitch advertisement. I feel like I have a great personality, I'm funny and easygoing and engaging once I get out of my shell. I guess I'm just concerned with what guys are attracted to, be they the physical or emotional/personality aspects, and whether I have the type of face/body and personality to even bother putting myself out there. And it's complicated because sometimes I do find these "perfect" guys attractive, even though I personally am more attracted to cute guys than flawlessly handsome guys -- but am I the minority in thinking that cute is better than perfect? I just feel like if I were dating someone or in a relationship with someone who was perfect in that way, I would spend most of my time feeling anxious and paranoid about whether I was good enough for this guy to be around or whether he would leave me for someone better looking (although not necessarily someone with a better personality). So I guess what I'm interested in hearing is what you look for in someone you'd potentially want to date or start a relationship with? What draws you to someone else? I probably should have posted this in another section of eNotAlone, but I wanted to get the gay male perspective on this issue since that's the focus group I'm operating in, even though I would welcome any advice/opinions from anyone. I know this sounds like ridiculous "woe is me" ranting, and I suppose in a way it is -- but I figured if there was any place I could get away with it, it would be here among all you nice people

bandnerd, This sounds so much like the situation I'm in right now that I wonder whether you're just another version of me from an alternate dimension, haha In my case, I've settled for now with remaining friends with him. As I've written elsewhere on this board (wherever I can seem to fit it in, haha), in my case the feelings are still there and the upset that happens after we spend some time together is still there, but both are muted for the fact that either my friend is straight or is too uncomfortable to even bother thinking about having a relationship with him. It's fine to still hang out with him, but I would take FoxLocke's advice and branch out and try to meet other guys who you are certain would be able to return your affections. I think you'll find this the safest way to "distance" yourself from him without avoiding him or not talking to him at all -- plus, it will be a great way to meet other gay guys and maybe channel your desires elsewhere.

jamie, I too am new to the dating scene and haven't been in any relationship yet, out or not, so I understand where you're coming from and also admire you for at least being farther along in the scene than I am I completely agree with novaseeker on this one. While it's important not to overanalyze your situation (that will only drive you mad), maybe he does think that because nothing really fun happened that New Year's evening, he's wondering whether you're not as interested in him as he is in you. I say this from what you mention about being the one who'se most "uncomfortable" with your sexuality in the relationship. I think if you give him a call, ask him what he's been up to and if he'd like to go out, there's nothing wrong with that at all. Maybe he just wants a hint from you that you're interested in pursuing a relationship with him and possibly taking your relationship to the "next level." Don't confont him so much as maybe curiously ask how he feels about the two of you over dinner or in some other neutral environment. Hope this helps you out!

I think you'll find that the more comfortable you get with yourself (you said you're at the 50 percent mark, which is great! the more willing and eager you'll be to engage with other people and make friends and not feel this incredible need to isolate yourself from other poeple. "She can think I'm gay all she wants.. I really don't care anymore! That goes for what everyone else thinks also!" Wow --that's so awesome that you're starting to think that way! It's a completely different attitude than what I've read in some of your previous posts and it brings a smile to my face to hear you tell us that! Who does care what people think about you, let alone what they think about you being gay!?! This is the kind of attitude that will help you through this periodic funk -- something that everyone goes through. "I am at a point right now where I am fine & content with being alone & by myself. I found that it's more relaxing not focusing on boyfriends or even having friends altogether. I've been trying to focus on more important things but why do I feel like I need more in my life?? Why does something not feel right but yet I feel so empty? I don't even know if this really have to deal with a gay issue but I don't know... I'm confused I guess.. I don't even know where I am coming from sadly.." Well, Kid, you're going through a transitional period in your life, so it's perfectly natural to feel this vaccum. You're getting ready to go off to college (where you will meet so many new and different people!) and you're busy dealing with these feelings so it's only right that you'd feel a little out of whack. But things are going to get so much better for you this year if you keep this positive attitude that you've seemed to start 2006 off with! And don't worry about feeling out of place with other friends. At grad school, all my friends are married women so whenever we go out for dinner or to a movie or for drinks or something like that, I'm left being the dateless third wheel and I believe you when you talk about how horrible that feeling is. Sometimes it makes me go home and cry too, wishing that I had someone to share an evening with! This sounds so pathetic, but sometimes it gets so bad that I cuddle with my pillow and just pretend that I'm sleeping next to someone who's in love with me....it ends up helping me go to sleep but of course, it's no substitute for the real thing... FoxLocke: that's cool that your campus has a GLBT alliance group. If it's anything like the one I'm a part of at my school (and I don't see why it wouldn't be that different), you'll find that everyone is really accepting and friendly and there are a lot of opportunities to meet new people and make friends. It took me a few meetings to start feeling comfortable -- I remember the first time I went was with someone from a support group that I'm a part of and I was so jittery and sweaty and basically a nervous wreck. But after the weekly meetings there are usually parties at someone's apartment/house and it's nice to unwind and dance (or in my case, watch people dance while wishing I was comfortable enough in my own skin to do so) and socialize with people. It's a whole new playing field to find attractive guys -- and in this environment there's no stress as to trying to decipher whether they're gay or not, haha. Of course, I'm about 3-5 years older than a lot of the guys in the group, but I'm thinking maybe that just adds more to my sex appeal as the mature, "older" grad student Kid, once you get off to your college, I'd seriously recommend looking into these kinds of group not only for support, but for a chance to socialize with your peers as well. In the meantime, as long as you're feeling relatively comfortable in your own skin, a bit of isolation and social downtime never hurt.

Wow. Sometimes the personal identification factor with you all and your posts is so on-point to the level of being disturbing, haha. Here I was thinking I was the only one who had this fixation on "The Right Girl" as a way of avoiding acknowledging my real feelings towards other guys. Like you, sexyguy, I was obsessed for a time in college with fantasizing over these idealized women. I would imagine myself married to them, living in a house with them, raising kids with them, growing old with them, etc. Of course, the one thing that was always curiously absent from these fantasies was being physically intimate with them, making love to them, holding them, kissing them, etc. etc. Often times I would have these shallow "crushes" on some of my girl friends just because they seemed to be the perfect "beard" (wow, FoxLocke, what a GREAT term for that!) to cover up what I really fantasized about at night in my private thoughts. Of course, looking back, forming a relationship with any of these girls would have a) been disastrous and b) ruined a perfectly good friendship and I shudder sometimes to think how things would have turned out if I'd tried to force myself into a relationship with one of them. Of course, unlike you guys, I haven't had any dating experience with the opposite sex, save for my date to the 8th grade dance in which we embarked on a two-week "relationship": when I asked her to the dance, she asked me back if we would go as friends or more than friends. I agreed to the latter just for the heck of it and of course we didn't even hold hands or kiss (or even dance that much, come to think of it) but just sat next to eachother in art class, haha. Ah well...at least I know now I'd be a much better boyfriend were I to be in a relationship with someone I really wanted to be in one with -- namely, a guy. But it's good that you're working through these issues, sexyguy. If you feel the need to embark on a relationship with a girl, just to see if the proverbial shoe fits, then go ahead, by all means. And if you'd rather start a relationship with a guy, do that instead. Just make sure not to cram your foot into a size shoe that clearly won't help you walk well or fit comfortably, to extend the shoe metaphor. If you want my honest opinion, it seems to me that you lean more towards wanting to be intimate with guys instead of girls and that you might be gay and are just hesitant to admit it (which is perfectly normal). Please don't take offense, because in the end the only person who can say for certain whether you're merely bisexual or fully gay is yourself. I'm just going by what you've mentioned in your posts. You'll figure things out eventually. At least you're making forward progress, which is always better than standing still or moving backwards.

"Belladonna, I'll buy your gaydar from you. I need it more than you do(lol). I always thought gaydar was intrinsic to gay people, but no such luck with me. The only way I know someone is gay is he makes a pass at me or just tells me. If a guy were making out with another guy I'm clueless enough to think they were straight and giving each other mouth to mouth recessatation...Well, not that clueless, but I guess you get my point" I'm going to outbit you on this one because I'm another one who desperately needs an education in how to tell if another guy is gay (if that's even possible), haha! I got my gaydar in the mail when I came out to myself this past summer, but it came with some assembly required and no instruction manual, so I'm out of luck I think. ANd I never give myself the benefit of the doubt when I think that some guy might be gay -- I always try and sabatoge the situation by focussing on the ways in which he's not gay. I, too, am clueless. Not sure if I can order a new one or what, lol Jinx, how much would you be willing to sell yours for? Or at least provide me with some tips on how to spot gay guys? But seriously, this lack of gaydar or malfunctioning gaydar (for both gays and lesbians) is frustrating to say the least and probably explains why so many of us go through these tortuous "straight crushes" in which we hold out hope that our crush is gay or lesbian when in fact there might be no such luck. You can either play off stereotypes or generalizations or look deeper into things like nonverbal communication and eyes with dilated pupils (wow...eyes have to be hands down the cutest feature on guys, IMHO). Either way, it seems like the best thing to do is work on a case by case basis. At least until someone invents a 100% reliable gaydar that you could buy at a hardware store or something like that.

From what you've written, it sounds like your mother is entertaining the idea that you are in fact gay. Though it's impossible to say for sure without being a fly on the FoxLocke family wall, it seems to me that it's possible your mother is exploring the idea and maybe coming to terms with the fact that her son might be gay. I understand how these recent developments might make you anxious/worried about what's going to happen -- whether she'll end up confronting you about your sexuality or just continue to hold out hope, but I think you should focus more on the positive aspects of these recent events: your mother is open enough to have a dialogue with you about topics dealing with homosexuality, she seems to share a fairly positive view of homosexuals as individuals, and most importantly, that she notices a positive change in your overall demeanor -- which is excellent! You can see how coming to accept yourself affects the way in which you present yourself to others. She's noticed this positive change in her son, and perhaps that will help her realize that your sexuality is an important, unchangeable aspect of yourself and that being accepting of yourself (and her being accepting of you) will have favorable results for the both of you. It's perfectly okay to be scared to come out to your mother -- but the way you're processing your identity and your emotions thus far makes it clear that soon you will indeed have enough personal strength to be able to confide in your mother. I agree with DN: you should maybe take these recent events and start to work on developing a sense of trust between you and your mother regarding your sexuality. No one says you have to come out tonight or tomorrow or a week from now, but if you work on having faith in your mother as someone who loves you unconditionally and think about how she might accept you and love you for who you are instead of just simply kicking you out on the doorstep (which, I repeat, seems HIGHLY unlikely given what you're written thus far), it will help alleviate some of this stress. Take it from me, it's so easy to focus on the negative outcomes, regardless of how preposterous they might be. That's what makes coming out such a terrible experience and is one of the reasons why I hesitated in coming out to my relatives over the holidays. This episode you mention about your mother learning that your cousin was gay happened years ago. People change -- you've gone from trying to exorcise yourself of your sexuality and feelings to completely accepting yourself for who you are. It sounds to me like your mother is changing as well -- so I wouldn't be too quick to use her reactions to homosexuality in the past as a litmus test for how she'll react now. Good luck!

"I wish we didn't have to plan this huge announcement and dread dire consequences just because we love other guys(or girls)." EXACTLY!!! This is why I find this whole coming out process so frustrating and probably why it makes it so hard. Heterosexual people don't have to worry about making grand announcements and proclamations. "Mom, Dad, I have something I need to tell you, and you might not like it......well, see....I like....the opposite sex..." The thing of it is, we don't want to make this seem like a big deal because it isn't. Being gay shouldn't be that big an issues and we know deep down that it isn't. And yet it's almost impossible to come out to someone and not have it be this big issue that people talk about, whether in front of you or behind your back. Just imagine how easy it would be to come out if you knew that the result would be more in line with telling someone you got an A on an exam or you watered the flowers or whatever instead of sounding like you were convicted of a capital crime. Granted, this isn't the way everyone reacts, but it's the way we THINK they will react, which makes it all the more complicated when deciding whether to tell a specific person about our sexualiuty. So I guess the main reason I avoided it was not so much the fear of their reaction as it was the resulting "spectacle" of "Oh my...Prufrock's gay! How can we think about Christmas or New Year's or enjoying each other's comapny when this big announcement has been dropped on our heads!" Sheesh...The only think that would have made it worse was having some New Year's Eve announcer standing in the living room making a countdown to my "Declaration" LOL.

"See with letters as you know, you are allowed to write out everything you want. You can edit a letter before you send it if it just doesn't sound perfect. You don't have the chance of anyone screaming or arguments really, BUT you do lose that in person "I love you, I trust you without question." element if you come out and they do accept, that is what they may feel most cheated by. This is where I can't quite put a finger down about what may be preferable and you'll have to decide yourself about what you'd rather cheat, yourself out of peaceful coming out, or them of a spoken felt coming out with obvious trust." This is a really good point, Jinx, and is the main reason why I'm vouching for going the letter route. See, the thing is they live in Florida and I live in Virginia so it's not like I can walk next door to talk with them or drive a few hours and spend the weekend with them. That's why I'm so anxious that I haven't done anything about it during this vacation, while I'm here in their presense. Considering that I'm not sure when the next time I see them is, or whether I'll even have time to visit considering I'd (hopefully) have a full-time job by then after graduating, I'd have a hard time approaching them outside of a family gathering, as Kween suggested. And I don't think I can let this eat me up until the next time I see them (possibly during the summer) -- which is why I'm so anxious to sit down and write a letter and so frustrated that I didn't do anything about it while I was here and could talk to them face to face. ARRGH!!! "I'm also wondering if you are subconsciously counting on them hearing it from your cousins first..." Good point Kween -- but I'd say I'm more worried than counting on them. If my aunt and uncle found out from them, it would certainly make my job easier and would take some of the burden off me. But then again, I feel like this is something they need to hear from me (either through phone or email) and not through hearsay. Even though I trust my cousins not to say anything, the situation must be just as awkward for them as it is for me. And again, I'd feel terrible placing that burden on them if I was ever brought up in conversation in dealing with the subject of girls, marriage, etc.

I too agree with the others in that you have had sex with this other person. The thing about homosexual sex is that we need to learn to redefine or ignore these traditional definitions like "virgin" "sex" "penetration" etc. etc. It's an interesting question: what constitutes "sex" between two people of the same gender considering that there is no traditional positive/negative, plug-in-socket connection, haha. Are you having sex if penetration is involved? But there are some gay men who don't have anal intercourse -- does that mean because there was no penetration involved, they haven't had sex yet? It's like that age-old question about whether oral sex is Sex or not. This reminds me of a scene in "Chasing Amy" in which the main character (who's a lesbian) explains to a straight male her definition of sex when he asks how it's possible for two women to have sex. I wish I knew the dialogue off the top of my head, but the gist of it is that the lesbian character explains that sex, as traditionally definied, revolves around penetration, but she has defined sex for her and her lover as something that goes beyond that. It's about the physical and emotional connection; the actions, in short, that you mentioned in your post, even though they don't adhere to traditional (read: heterosexual) definitions of sex.

Hey everyone, So it's my last few hours here with the extended family on vacation before heading back home (and then, two weeks later, back to school). I told myself before coming down here to visit that I was going to come out to the remaining family members who don't know I'm gay: my aunt and uncle, my two grandparents and my two cousins. Of these, I only mustered up enough courage to tell my two cousins. They are both cool with it and, as I've said in another post, after the initial shock treat me the same way they've always treated me. You would think my being gay was no big deal (and I know, of course, that it's not) haha. But then there was this relentless pressure and anxiety I had to tell the remaining four adults. I was going to start with my aunt and then my uncle. Both use the term "fag" liberally when talking about other gay men (one reason I hesitated to tell them) and both are fairly conservative. And yet one day we were talking about national issues and the topic of gay marraige came up. They said they don't believe in "marriage" for same-sex couples but do support civil unions and equal rights. Ok, I thought: I can respect that and that certainly made me feel a bit more comfortable about potentially telling them. Then, of course, came Christmas and I decided to postpone talking about it until after the rush of Christmas. But then our family seemed to be having such a fun time together, especially with my sisters and I and my aunt and uncle, that I feared bringing up my sexuality would put a damper on the rest of the vacation. It would, in effect, become the central focus of conversation. I should probably point out that my grandparents don't deal well with any kind of controversy. They are very introverted -- they don't talk about their emotions, don't communicate with one another on an open and honest (read: eNotAlone) level. This is why I decided to go with my aunt and uncle first -- especially my aunt, who is the exact opposite of them and seemed to me the most equipped to deal with the news. I'm frustrated at how difficult it is to try and relate everything to you all, given that I probably can't describe anything in such a way as to give you a clear idea of the family situation here. I guess I'm just frustrated and disappointed that I didn't have the nerve to tell my aunt and uncle about my being gay, especially when I had convinced myself that my sexuality was something I was beginning to be proud of. Everytime I had a few moments alone with them (in a car ride, sitting in the morning reading the paper) and I thought about telling them, I would get hung up on how this news would affect the rest of the vacation, especially considering my sexuality is not something my parents (though they know) are comfortable discussing among other people. It's gotten to the point now that my stomach churned this morning when I came really close to just telling my aunt -- but again, I just couldn't do it. I guess it's funny that I had an easier time telling my parents then my aunt and uncle -- despite their annoying tics, I really look up to them and admire them and I guess in a way I'm afraid of disappointing them, even though I know deep inside that it doesn't matter what they think or whether they approve or not! So now I'm worried about what to do once I leave. My two cousins know and I'm sure they won't tell the remaining four but I still hate that not everyone in the family knows about it. This whole idea of telling everyone about my sexuality runs counter to how I feel about the issue: I don't want it to be an announcement or a big deal, but I know it will be perceived that way no matter what. I've though about writing the four of them a nice, thoughtful letter -- I've always felt I'm better at writing my feelings than verbally speaking them when it comes to important issues like this -- but I'm also worried that they would be upset that a) I couldn't tell them to their faces and b) they are the last to know. I just want to get this out there and have everyone know and put this thing to bed but at the same time now that I'm leaving, I have no idea how to accomplish this. Do I phone them (I wonder how well I could handle something like this over the phone)? Write the letter? Not tell them at all? (I'm not too fond of this solution, because I love and respect them and they deserve to know and it would be more awkward to just show up at a family function with a boyfriend and make my "announcement" that way). It stinks that I'm feeling this way, considering all I've accomplished with myself and my sexuality over the past year (I just think sometimes: this time last year I had no plans whatsoever to consciously consider myself gay, even to myself!). I know I should be proud of having come out to myself and my immediate family, but this current situation just complicates matters and gets me really upset and stresses me out. Maybe things will cool down a little once I leave and get home, but I worry about the situation I'm leaving behind. ](*,) Thanks for reading through this and letting me vent

Thakid, I agree with BellaDonna in that I don't think any of this stress will be resolved until you develop a better sense of who you are as a gay male and get over some of these self-esteem and self-conscious humps. Ultimately, I feel that if you did this, you wouldn't worry so much about whether you appeared gay to others or not. Of course, I know this is a hard thing to do and God knows I'm still working on it myself, but I think you'll find that the more you develop a kind of inner pride about who you are and what you're attracted to, the more this will help you to stop letting other people's perceptions of you stress you out. Is this making sense at all? I really sympathize with your issue because I do deal with worries abou7t other people's opinions and perceptions but I do think it is possible to get over worrying about stuff like that. And talking about your thoughts on a place like here is a great way to work through something like this. I know where you're coming from regarding the problematics of not looking like a stereotypical gay male, but in a way my problems are a bit different. I'm pretty "straight-acting" in mannerisms, etc. etc. and I worry sometimes that maybe I'm not outwardly gay enough to get the attention of other guys. So whereas you're worried about trying to hide any outward sense of your sexuality, here I am wishing that I had some kind of big neon sign over my head with a big arrow pointing at me and flashing lights reading: I'M GAY AND I'M AVAILABLE. hahaha. But ultimately, it would be foolish for either of us in our opposite situations to change our mannerisms to hide or display what we are. I don't feel like I need to start wearing tight clothing, walk with swaying hips, etc. etc. in order to put my sexuality on display -- and you shouldn't feel like you need to supress yourself in order to hide your sexuality. "Be yourself." -- it's corny and overused but in the particular cases of us in this thread, it seems to work better than anything I could suggest. Hope this helps you out!

unicornq, I'm in a similar situation right now with a new friend I made that I have a crush on. Of course, I'm a bit farther along in the process than you are -- we see each other and hang out on a regular basis -- but sometimes our relationship can be frustrating (probably just on my part, since I'm the one with the crush) in the sense that I have these feelings for him that go beyond those I have with my other friends. So on the one hand, I'm tempted to agree with the other posters in that you should avoid this treacherous situation because it will be emotionally frustrating. And to a degree, I agree with them. But at the same time, I feel like these "crush" feelings that are so strong at the ouset get less difficult to deal with the more time I spend around this guy -- which probably sounds hard to believe. Maybe I just recognize the hopelessness of the situation (that I'm gay and he's probably not) and realize that I've made a new good friend so that I learn to turn off these feelings, or at least put them on mute when we're together. Of course, that process in itself is very difficult and stressful, but what you decide to do should ultimately depend on how well you feel you can handle your emotions around this girl. Maybe embracing the idea that things would likely never work out between you and your crush might help to put these "crush" feelings to rest and instead help you become willing to accept a new friendship?

bmwsv, That's really brave of you to be so open and honest about your sexuality, or what you see as a lack thereof. To be honest, I feel like society blows up the idea of sex to proposterous proportions to the point where it stress out people like you and me. I'm 23, I'm still a virgin and I'm part of a subculture that at times seems to stress sex and quick hookups over deep, interpersonal relationships and connections on both physical and emotional levels. Granted, this is just a small fraction of gay culture, but I feel at times that this is the only fraction that gets any "coverage" so to speak. Which for the longest time kept me closeted because I figured, well, if I'm not sex crazed, if I don't want to just go to a club and come home every Friday night with a different guy, if I would rather spend an evening cuddling or making out instead of dropping ecstasy and having empty sex marathons, if I was more interested in the idea of "making love" than "F'ing" -- then maybe I wasn't meant to be gay. ****Is this something anyone else on the boards has felt at one point or another? I'm also curious to know from the lesbians on the board: I feel sometimes as if gay culture puts more of a social emphasis on sex than lesbian culture. Do any of you think this way?**** In your case, it sounds like maybe there is some mental stressors you have that prevent you from enjoying any kind of sexual activity, whether it's masturbation or intercourse, or that prevent you from feeling that it's okay and healthy to be sexual. Perhaps it would be best to think about maybe exploring these issues in your past that you raise in your posts -- I'm not sure how keen you are on the idea of therapy or sexual couselling, but it's something worth considering and something that I personally found helpful in dealing with stressful issues. And if, indeed, you come to the conclusion that you're asexual, there's nothing wrong at all with that. I recently learned that sexuality is a very fluid thing and not something that should be considered etched in stone for all eternity. Best of luck!

Jinx, Why is it that I seem to begin every thread on this board with the phrase "I know exactly how you feel?" Trust me, it's not an understatement with this particular issue you're dealing with. I've been going through the same motions down here with my own family over the holidays and though it pains me that you're having a rough time in dealing with the stress of this week, at least you can take comfort in the fact that I and others here are going through the same crap. I came out to my two younger cousins here (ages 12 and 16) -- they were both shocked at the outset but now treat me the same way they always have. I was worried for a while that my one cousin (who's this kind of uber-masculine, sports kid) would feel bothered/threatened/annoyted by me, etc. etc. But their parents (my aunt and uncle) I still haven't talked about this to. Same goes for my grandparents. And it comes down to the same intolerance of gay issues that you mentioned in your post, Jinx. My aunt and uncle have no problem throwing around the word "fag" (as in this tv show we were watching and the guy on it -- who was cute, IMHO -- was twenty-something and living by himself with his dogs and he was nicely dressed and spoke with a lisp and my uncle goes "He's such a fag." practically every time the guy opened his mouth) and so I hesitate sometimes to tell them, even though I have a feeling deep inside that they won't be that bothered by it. Oddly enough, they both support the idea of civil unions and full equal benefits for same-sex couples. But another part of it is that I don't want this to become an issue that we have to talk about for the rest of the holidays; I don't want to have to make it an "announcement" but at the same time, how can something like this not be an announcement? It also doesn't help much that my parents don't like talking about this; other than my two younger sisters, I have little support on the family front. So I can sympathize with your frustration, Jinx at wanting to come out but not being able to, or not feeling like you can without everything going haywire. As for these feelings of anxiety and irritation you have, all I can say is: "Ditto." If only it were that simple to meet somebody and fall in love, huh? I get a bitter feeling in my stomach every time I see two people holding hands, hugging, kissing, etc. etc. (regardless of their orientation). Sometimes the feeling gets so bad that I wonder why I came out in the first place if all I'm going to do is end up alone because no one would want to fall in love with me or find me attractive, etc. etc. etc. It goes on and on and it's certainly toxic thinking. But then there are better days, where you feel filled with this powerful inner strength that you never knew existed before -- you start to believe that you are attractive, that you have worth and that you won't end up alone but just need time to socialize and meet people. These are the feelings that we need to hold onto, instead of ruminating over these negative thoughts. As other people have mentioned, it's perfectly natural to have these temporary feelings and it sounds like they are only aggrivated by your current stressful environment. And if your friend that you emailed never gets back to you, don't forget that you always have us here to talk with whenever you need to, whether it's on a forum or in a private message. We're all in this boat together -- the water gets choppy from time to time and seasickness is common but you're not going to capsize anytime soon. I don't think any of us will, gay or straight or married or single or male or female or whatever.

Good question! I can't think of any place off the top of my head other than bars/clubs and the internet where you can be certain that the person you're interested in is in fact gay, which makes it problematic for people like me who aren't too drawn to the club scene. I'm becoming more and more attracted to the idea of finding guys to date off the internet, although there's still a kind of stigma attached to it in my mind. The only suggestion would be to frequent places that interest you and just keep your eyes peeled, especially if you are not willing to go to clubs/bars or date online. Coffee shops are a good place to start and I could probably list more, but I don't want to sound like I'm stereotyping the places that gay guys frequent, because we all have different tastes and interests. If you're going to school, or you live near a university, joining some kind of organization might help. And even if you don't live near a university, volunteering or any kind of social groups might work. A lot of communities have local GLBT groups and things like that. But it is a really frustrating question. Anyone else have thoughts on where to meet guys if you're not into bars or the internet?

"It's all right man, only a small part of your dream needs to be edited." Exactly! I think a lot of these issues that people like us have with dwelling on this idea of the picture-perfect dream is that it's been ingrained in us to think that this is our ticket to happiness. But the more I think about it, the more I feel like this whole idea of a dream is really a mindset. I mean, how exciting would our lives be if they resembled a Norman Rockwell painting or a Family Circus comic strip? I used to want to live a cookie-cutter lifestyle but the more I think about it, and the more I develop my own identity (sexual and otherwise), the more I realize the problems with this -- the more I realize that I want to stake out my own plot of land in the world and do whatever I want with it. If I want a green fence instead of a white one, fine! If I want a husband instead of a wife, fine! If I want to adopt kids, fine! Just because we're GLBT doesn't mean that we can't own whatever parts of this dream we want. Granted, the circumstances will be a bit different and certainly outside of the "norm" but the more I think about it, the more disillusioned I become with this idea of the "norm"; the more I pride myself in coloring outside the lines, so to speak. It's okay to worry about this occasionally, but I don't think you need to be worried about ending up alone or not having whatever dream you want, FoxLocke. Just from reading your thoughts on this forum, you sound like someone that any guy would be lucky to spend his life with! Oh, and you should definitely write to your cousin and start some kind of dialogue with him and his partner. What a great resource to have, especially considering he's family too! I wouldn't worry about "inconveniencing" him were you to ask him to sit down and talk about your sexuality -- most gay guys would be thrilled to know that they were the catalyst for helping someone else come out of the closet!

Yeah, it's strange and horrible, that people we hardly know and sometimes will never get to know can have such a profound effect on our emotions so that when something minor goes wrong (they don't return a smile or wave, the signs point to their being straight or closeted, etc.) it does feel like a kick in the stomach as you put it, UT. I imagine that you are not the only one going through this, as I would be willing to bet that others in this forum (me included) and out there in the world have dealt with the same feelings of hopelessness that you're feeling right now. So, strength in numbers, as they say. Maybe it would help to sit down and think through to yourself why this person affects you so much so that you feel your heart is broken. In a way, this might help you sort out your feelings towards this individual and make the pain seem less powerful -- unrequited love is one of those jumbled kinds of emotions that is a lot better to cope with when it's sorted out and you can figure out what it is definitively that attracts you toward this person. It's always worse when even you don't know why you have feelings for this person.

Having played it straight (to both myself and others) up until late this past summer, I can sympathize with where you're coming from, and you're certainly not alone in your frustrations. I too am pretty "masculine" and all my friends are either girls or straight guys. Of course, I get along great with the guys I hang around and those that know about my sexuality don't have much of an issue with it. Still, it sucks not having any gay friends to interract with on a regular basis, whether it's for friendship or for dating. What I would suggest to you (as others already have in this thread) is to start to expose yourself to GLBT groups and events on campus. I recently joined a GLBT group for students at the school I attend and it's done a world of good for me, even though I think of the people in that group as aquaintances and not friends at this stage. I'm also trying to get more involved in attending extracurricular lectures and programs dealing with GLBT issues -- you'll find that a lot of the same people attend these meetings and it's a good way to get to know people. You shouldn't have to feel like you need to revoke your "straight license" in order to meet other guys -- although it is more difficult (at least, from my own personal experience) when you don't fit in to an predescribed, obvious stereotypes. Sometimes I feel a pressure to act more flamboyant or blatantly (read: stereotypically) gay and part of the issues I had with coming to terms with my sexuality was the realization that I don't have to fit into any particular mold to identify as gay -- much as you shouldn't feel the need to fit into any mold to identify as bisexual. You shouldn't feel like you need to abandon your "straight life" in order to meet guys who would be willing to have a relationship with you because it seems like that part of your life is important to you, in the same way that I wouldn't sacrifice my straight guy friends just to hang out with a crowd of anonymous gay guys in the hopes of feeling like I "fit in" more. It seems like some kind of compromise is needed for these two halves of your social life, and I think the best thing for now is to start to expose yourself in small increments to social events/situations in which the type of guys you're looking to date will congregate. Are you out as a bisexual to any of your friends or anyone in the straight crowd you hang around with? If not, it might be a more difficult proposition, but still certainly possible. Most GLBT groups on campus are known for their confidentiality, if that's something that would make you feel more comfortable when attending such events. Hope this helps!

"Whether this is a gay issue or not, this guy is a jerk." Agreed. I would try and find some new people to hang around. I'm not sure what your community is like or whether this is possible but from what you've told us -- it doesn't sound like a healthy relationship, what you have with this guy (regardless of how you would categorize yourself sexually). If you're feeling trapped, then there is no real choice but to avoid and "run away" as you see it. Although I don't think leaving your community for someplace new, someplace that wouldn't have the kind of psychological baggage you're describing should be seen in such a negative light as "running away" or "retreating" -- how about "moving" or "starting fresh"? But I also think you need to take some time and figure out whether you consider yourself bisexual or gay or merely a straight male who wanted to experiement with a member of the same sex. Once you get that figured out you will find it much easier to deal with the impressions and reactions of those around you.