bmwsv101

I have a question for you all. I just recently got into a pretty big argument with one of my best guy friends over a girl (I know, it sounds ridiculous). Basically, she's the girl I described on here before, "Erin" and he just recently met her. Well, since their meeting, whenever the three of us hang out, he flirts with her in front of me while knowing that I had a crush on her. But last week was the straw that broke the camel's back. We were all studying again, and he actually stooped to reading her poetry aloud, then later on, after I had gone, he walked her home and talked about relationships and then went home and emailed her another sonnet that he had written. Could that be any more cliche? Anyway, I brought it up to him that I thought his behavior was pretty inconsiderate and we got in this huge fight and didn't speak for almost a week. But today we met up and worked things out. This is due largely to the fact that in the future, the girls I like will hopefully be lesbians and thereforeeee have no interest in him, and that the girls he likes will hopefully be straight and have no interest in me. This is key because I still feel that Erin should have been off limits to him, at least while I was getting over her, and he feels that if he had really been pursuing her, that it would have been fine. So my question to you all is what do you think about friends who date their friends' exes, crushes, etc? It seems most of the women I talk to think that a friend who does that deserves to no longer be your friend, while the men I hear from think that if your friend isn't involved, then it's fair game. But what do you all think? And do you think this gender difference is just a coincidence might it actually mean something?

Political correctness may not be the same as acceptance, but I don’t really care about if my neighbors accept my lifestyle or not. I want to be able to legally marry who I want, adopt children if I want, and not worry about discrimination. Those people can think whatever they want to in their free time, as long as it doesn’t effect their decision making process when it directly effects me. It’s their first amendment right to be able to think what they want. A great example I like to look at is the history of African Americans in this country. Black people have been living in the South (in specific) for centuries considering slavery and all. Yet, just the observable act of them trying to live out their lives there didn't change anything. It took marches, and protests, and actual deaths before anything of significance changed. Do you think that if slaves had continued to just sit around following their master’s orders that slavery would have just magically ended? No. Unfortunately, not all of human conflict can be solved with a nice discussion over a cup of coffee. Even now, after decades of black and white people existing in the same neighborhoods together, if I were to go to certain areas in the South, as a biracial woman, I would not be welcomed with open arms. For further evidence, look at the Civil Rights movement of the 50’s and 60’s. Do you think the Jim Crow laws would have been reversed if someone hadn’t through political activism forced those Southern states to do so? What I’m trying to say here is that ignorance is not so easily relieved. Most of those that hate specific groups of people base their hate on ignorance, and are quite unwilling to let it go, no matter what counter evidence is provided. Just because I show up to a KKK meeting and prove to be a friendly and intelligent human being doesn’t mean I can stop that group from being a bunch of racist * * * * *s. And I think it’s unfair to those being oppressed to say, “Well, we’ll just wait to make real change that effects you until we’ve got all the bigots out their to agree to it and we’ll do that by showing them how normal and deserving we really are.” Why should they have to wait? And why should they have to prove that they are deserving of equal and fair treatment to anyone? As I’ve pointed out with the case of African Americans, it’s been centuries and we’re still suffering from inequalities. But without the political movements and activism to speed up change, we wouldn’t even have the progress that we have now.

The real question here is, "What is political, and what isn't?" Well, the realm of politics basically covers everything under the sun. Politics and government effect what foods you eat, the taxes on the clothes you buy, the price of gas in the tank of your car, and what kind of medication you can takes for certain illnesses, not to mention the "big" things like, who you can and cannot marry, whether women and minorities should be allowed into the white-collar work place, and when it's acceptable to go to war. So when people say things like, "you shouldn't let politics define your life," I think it's important to point out that as it is, politics defines all of our lives, whether we are aware of it or not. Being an activist or being political isn't about being some over the top freak. It's about saying, "Maybe I should play a larger role in the decision-making process that effects everything from the major to the mundane in my daily life." But yes, it can take some committment. It's all about how much you care, and how willing you are to sit back and let someone else make these decisions for you. While being an out and pround homosexual in your suburban area does have its benefits to "the cause," and will over time will hopefully help change the negative attitudes this country has towards LGBT people, you can't expect that alone to change the tide of this anti-gay backlash. The anti-gay groups happen to have the advantage in this battle. They have money, they have widespread political support and they have the ignorance of the American people. You keeping a rainbow sticker on your car isn't going to change that. So do whatever you feel fits you best, whether that's giving money, marching in protests, voting accordingly, etc. But if you find yourself disappointed in how your government treats you and your fellow LGBT community members, keep your complaints to yourself unless you're actually willing to put in the work necessary to make change.

It was just recently my brithday, so for this evening, my friends and I all got together for dinner, drinks, and then went out to dance. Well, of course, Erin was there, and honestly, I must have forgotten how fun and nice it felt to flirt with her, and watch her flirt with me. But of course, one of my male friends, who knows about my dilema with her, was I guess, trying to get a read on the situation the entire evening and his conclusion is that she's just a flirty person with people she likes. So it's not my fault for getting confused, she was sending those signals. But it's not like she only flirts with her girl friends, she flirts with guys too, so it tips the scale towards straight. So I'm pretty committed to just giving up all hopes of ever having a real relationship with her (aside from friendship, that is). However, I still have a slight issue. My friend (the one who was scoping her out all night), was doing some flirting with her - he says to see if she would flirt back, to figure out if she was straight. Before, he's also mentioned, in what I hope was a joking matter, that maybe he should "get with her" and then, after having sex with a man, Erin would realize that she wanted something different. Then tonight, when the evening was done and he and I went back to his apartment and found a couple of her things still there, I told him that I would take them and give them to her later this week, but he said no, that'd he'd do it. This is the second time he's ever seen her! Of course, as we were leaving and I asked him again about her stuff, he said that we could leave it at his place since we were going to try to see her tomorrow. To me, that just sounded like a cover up. I mean, the girl is cute, and flirty, and great and all, and he said it himself, it's understandable why someone would like her. But, being that's he's probably my best male friend ever, wouldn't him trying to date her, despite my efforts to not pursue her anymore, still be a really lame and shady thing to do? Bording on betrayal, even? I don't know for sure what he plans to do, or if he even actually likes her, but I can't help but feel upset just thinking about it. I really do care about this girl, and I guess right now, seeing her date one of my best friends just wouldn't help me get over her. I'm probably just feeling a little vulnerable or insecure over the situation...I'll just have to see how things develop. But in the meantime, I still feel like crap.

So lunch went fine. But I'm kind of tired of this. Tired of the emotional rollercoaster ride due to the constant "Does she like me? Was that a sign? What did that look mean?" questioning. I feel like if she likes me, she should do something to make it more obvious. But until that point comes, I think I shouldn't worry about it. I need to go after a girl I 100% know for sure is gay, or bi. With this girl, I constantly feel like I'm trying to convert her or that I'm always over analyzing things. And that's lame. I think it's about time for a nice simple relationship...but does that even exist?

So I had lunch with her yesterday and it was interesting I guess. We just sat and talked for about 2 hours and then I walked her to her apartment. I'm also supposed to be having lunch with her and several of our friends tomorrow, and on Friday, it's my birthday party which she will be at. So at least I'm scheduled to see her pretty often for the next week or so. After that it will probably be more of an effort to spend one-on-one time with her again (But since we haven't seen Brokeback Mountain yet, that's a good excuse too). Our conversation yesterday was pretty asexual. She did mention that guy she had liked but how hanging out with him now was weird since he acts differently. So I told her that she doesn't deserve to be around people that don't respect her and treat her like she's worthy of their time. I should mention that she's a pretty awkward girl. She's really cute, and smart and socially aware, but sometimes she's just awkward in social situations. Even though she and I are pretty cool, and I can handle silence when around people, and I don't flip out about her quirks, I don't know how to always read her simply because she's so...awkward. However, I'm starting to think that might actually be attracted to women too and has the capabilities to have relationships with women, but that she doesn't know it, or isn't ready to accept it. The more I observe how she is, I am starting to think that she and I will just become good friends, and one day, she'll be able to accept this other part of herself. I just don't want her to feel like I've forced anything upon her or that I'm preying on her, eagerly trying to convert the straight girl. That's one big reason as to why I've been so cautious. But I have dropped my share of hints at my personal orientation, from the fact that we discuss my love of "The L Word," and that I've told her that I would never date this guy friend of ours that I see probably every day because "we just aren't compatible in that way" even though we're best friends. I guess I'll see how lunch tomorrow goes...

So I ate breakfast with her at 9, then we went and got chai, then went to her apartment and just talked and watched a movie, and napped. Then then we read and did random stuff. After a while I got hungry again, since by then it was around 2 pm, and she made me some soup and then we sat at her kitchen counter and ate, and read the newspaper. It was all really weird. I felt like I was in one of those movies in which people are really quirky and do bizarre things and everyone loves how "unique" they are. Cause seriously, who invites people over to their apartment so they can end up taking naps? She and I are close and all, but I wouldn't have purposefully taken a nap in front of her just randomly like that. The day was weird, but good. She wants to see Brokeback Mountain again, so she said that she and I should go. We also talked about not having the urge to have sex (in the heterosexual sense of the word). Oh and I wrote her this funny poem while i was there, that was ridiculous but it had a few serious points to it as well. She said it was good and that she would write me one while she was at work this evening. I don't know if she'll remember to or not, but whatever. This girl has me so confused. I have no idea what to do. One of my friends says that if it was a slightly different situation and I at least knew that it was possible for her to be attracted to women, then all the things she's done so far would have been clear signs that she's interested. He has a point, but there's always that chance that she's just a weird and interesting straight girl who likes to take naps with her good friends. I really need some advice on this one.

I'm going to breakfast and then to hang out with her in about a half hour...hopefully all will go well

I think that's a fear of most people. No one wants to end up alone...it's scary. One of the best things in life is sharing experiences and emotions with other people. I agree with you though, I think LGBT people probably deal with this fear to a much larger degree than straight people. Not only do we have to play this guessing game, but we also risk being persecuted for it. It's a tough situation to say the least. So if I ever develop that elusive gaydar, I'll share the wealth I talked to Erin two nights ago, and I'm supposed to call her when I get back in town so we can hang out or something. Being that right now I'm visiting my father and his new evangelical family, I'm having a hard time resisting calling her every time I feel like I need political and moral backup. But considering that I'm only here till the 8th, I figure I should just hold to our agreement and wait till I get home to call her. But when I do call her, what do you think would be a good situation for us to be in (getting coffee, movie, dinner, etc?) for me to properly judge any signs she might or might not be sending?

I just remembered this thing that comedienne Judy Gold said in one of her routines. She mentioned that one problem for gay people is that they're constantly questioning the sexuality of everyone around them. See, straight people often live in this blissful world where the underlying assumption is that everyone is also straight. And lucky for them, over 90% of the time they're right. Unlucky for us, since we have to constantly search for the people that play on our "team." She also joked about gay people being attracted to every decent looking person of the same sex. While you might say that straight people are attracted to every decent looking person of the opposite sex, they happen to have odds and statistics on their side. Shucks for us.

Oh how I wish there were more precise distinctions! Like, maintain eye contact for "x" seconds and you're good! I'll have to keep the eyecontact, the mirroring and neck tilting in mind when scoping people out When it comes to personal space, I find myself very conscious of it. I barely touch anyone (except for those I'm really close with) because to me, touch means something and I don't want anyone misunderstanding how I feel about them (or maybe becoming clued in to how I feel about them). I think this tends for me to overanalyze how other people act in regard to personal space, because I'm judging them by my standards. For me, reaching out and touching someone that 1) isn't related to me, or 2) I haven't spent years getting to know, is not casual. It is definitely sending a signal. Like going out on a limb sort of signal. But that's me, not the rest of society obviously. So analyze this and tell me what you think: One day this summer, I was goofing off and acting like a little kid, trying to gross people out by clenching my fist and moving a vein back and forth accross a tendon in my hand (some girls can be easy to gross out). I was laughing and showing it to Erin, and she did the whole "eww" thing, and put her hand over mine to cover up the moving vein. Me, being as conscious about personal space as I am, immediately looked up at her, and I swear, she held my gaze (her hand on mine still). Then someone came up to speak to us, so we pulled away. I don't know how long the eye contact was, so I don't know if it was actually "lingering" but it was long enough for me to immediately think "Hey, what was that?" Oh and what about batting eyelashes? Is that something only done in old movies, or does it actually mean something if a girl bats her eyelashes at you? "Also, when she brings up a topic such as that one about being more pleasing and attractive, I'd say you could side with the women's side." You know, I can't even remember what I said after she made that comment. I probably just nodded or something...But I'll try and remember that for the next time. Thinking back on our time spent together, I think there could have been a few instances like that, where she might have been trying to figure out my stance on things, but I probably didn't give a very representative answer. As for letting her in on my orientation, I might just have to do that. Me being cautious and conservative (not in the political sense), I'd probably be a nervous wreck by the time I told her, but I think it would be worth it. I don't think she'd have some sort of negative knee-jerk reaction or anything, I'm just concerned that if she is straight and somehow puts it together that I like her, that she'll be weirded out. On Halloween, this guy we both know tried to hold her hand, and she let him since they were both really drunk, and she thought it was no big deal. But the next day, he left her a message kind of asking her out. She likes him as a friend though, not as a prospective boyfriend, and I think she hasn't talked to him since because she was worried about awkward moments or leading him on or something. I do not want that to be me. As I mentioned earlier, if she thinks a situation will be uncomfortable for her, she has no problem avoiding it completely. I had previously wondered about bringing up that day she was crying in the park. Obviously, it'd have to be just me and her hanging out for me to bring up such a personal topic. I feel like for those moments she was crying, that I saw her at her at one of her most vulnerable times and I didn't respond appropriately. Here's a question: what if she was actually interested in me, but due to my inexperience, I just didn't catch on quick enough? Do you think it's possible to get her to open up again? "Right now she seems like she really just needs someone to confide in, that agrees and accepts her, and holds no problems...That may just be what she needs first from you before anything else." I agree. I really think she needs someone who will just accept her and really work to understand all that she is. That is what I want to do, whether anything romantic develops between us or not. I think she works really hard to seem completely independent and like she doesn't need anyone, but I think deep down she craves whole acceptance of who she is. I mean, as complex as she is, whatever flaws she may or maynot have, I think she's a wonderful person (hence the crush). I wish she knew that (maybe minus the crush part). But it's not every day that you just go up to someone and tell them that you think the world of them.

Well, I'll definitely have to look into the communications classes at my school and see what's offered. Seems like a sound investment of my time either way. As for the story with "Erin"...here it goes. Warning: This will be long. We both signed up to be apart of this summer internship by this organization by the name of the Southwestern Company. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's a publication company that specializes in door-to-door sales. Yes, we were door-to-door salespeople. I don't know what we were on when we signed up to do this job, but I guess I can rest assured that about 3000 other college students agree to do the same thing each summer, so we're not alone. Anyway, as you can probably guess, how the summer job turned out was not expected. We were up to working hard and facing "tough" situations, but nothing like what we encountered. Working 86 hours a week, 14 or more each day outside in the extremely hot Texas sun, all by yourself in let's just call "questionable" neighborhoods, asking people that don't have enough money to properly clothe their children to buy a $300 dollar set of books from you, and of course, with the company asking things of you that were seriously cult-like, these were not things we expected. Oh and lets not forget the having to walk door-to-door just to find housing part. Anyhow, the very first week of our job was training, which was hard and we still were busy for 86 hours of that week, but at least we were with all the people who signed up to do this from our campus. So it was that week that I got to know Erin. You know how people that go through traumatic experiences together tend to bond? Well, that's what happened in this situation. In fact, aside from Erin, some of my best friends now were people I met during that program. Like I said earlier, I am not confident in my gaydar skills. Yet, after spending a week with this girl at "sales school" I was finding myself really hopeful, which is totally rare for me. We had a lot in common: politics, religious stance, and even social habits. On top of that, it was like this unspoken thing that she and I would sit next to eachother during all of our lectured training sessions and study our sales talks together when we had free time. I remember being kind of shocked at first when she would just show up next to me sometimes. We even made this kind of promise that we would stick through the program together and go on the Thanksgiving break trip together (the company offers the people that sell a certain amount a partially payed for trip to some location...this year, it was Cancun). We also wanted to room together for the summer, but we got assigned different roommates. So after that week, the real summer starts and it's hard. I mean, really hard. Physically and emotionally. I didn't get to see her much after that, since we only had team meetings on Sundays, but I'd call and talk to her sometimes during the week if I had time. Eventually though, my roommates and I decided that we had seriously had enough of this crazy job and we decided to quit and go spend the rest of the summer living with my dad and working there. Of course, I'm feeling guilty though since I've told Erin that I won't quit if she doesn't, and I also don't want to just up and leave without telling her that I'm leaving face to face. So one of my roommates, we'll call "Abby", and I decided to break the rules and go see Erin during the work day. We get there, and she knows something is wrong. We're sitting on the side of the street, and we tell her that we're going and she just starts crying. Me, being the dufus that I am sometimes, didn't know what to do, especially with Abby there, so I just stupidly pulled pieces of grass off of her back. After a few minutes we went to this park and tried to convince her to come with us, and she bawled. Like we went to the other side of the park to let her call a couple of her friends to get advice, and we could hear her crying from over there. Eventually though, she regained composure and had decided that she had committed to staying through the program and that she would. She hid it pretty effectively most of that day, but there were a few times I could tell she was pissed at me. For example, the company had scheduled an outing for that Sunday to go to the Dallas Zoo. Of course, my roommates and I would be gone by then, so I mentioned that we might go to the Zoo there. Then Erin said something along the lines of, "I hope you go to the polar bear exhibit, fall in and get eaten." Funny thing is, she sounded pretty serious. Basically, I referred to that day as the beginning of the end. I left, and she stayed to complete the summer. After we were gone, I pushed my roommates so we would send her cookies every couple of weeks. Aside from the random emails every once in a while, I only talked to her twice the rest of that summer. They were decent conversations, though every once in a while, she would get angry out of nowhere for about 5 minutes. She had me seriously wondering if the summer was a detriment to her mental health or something. She talked of feeling like a failure, and gaining weight from eating extra food to comfort herself. So when school started up again, I was anxious to see her. I didn't know if it would be all that great, but I still wanted to of course. Basically, things were okay though awkward at times when she would bring up that we abandoned her. You have no idea how guilty I feel about that. Sometimes I wonder if I should have just dealt with the evil summer job and stayed for her, though I know that sounds weird. Anyway, our friendship since then has been sort of off and on. I went for a month or two this fall not seeing or speaking to her at all because I felt it was pointless and I really didn't want to put myself through that. Then out of nowhere, I got invited to have breakfast with her and one of my old summer roommates. Now we have breakfast (the three of us) every Sunday when school is in session. Things are better between the two of us now, like a couple of weeks ago, I spent 8 hours with her studying for finals and it was fine, almost like normal. The problem though, is that I still have no idea if she likes me in more than a friendly way. I've learned that she's a really complex person and she's sooo difficult to read. I know from what she's told me that she finds is pointless to hold on to friendships that aren't fufilling, and she's said that if she didn't want to see or hear from me, then she just wouldn't answer my calls and she would pretend she didn't notice me when we pass on the street. She's very matter of fact about all of this. She's the type of person that feels she is her own best friend and that there are secrets and parts of herself that she will always keep secret. She characterizes herself as a romantic person, yet she just confessed to me that she might not get married, that she'd just adopt a child and raise him/her on her own. She also says very contradictory things that make it hard for me to come to some conclusion on her sexuality. She talks about boys sometimes, and I know she recently had a big crush on this guy in one of my classes, but then she goes and says something like she finds the vagina to be so much more beautiful and "asetically pleasing" than the penis. I know she's not homophobic, since we've talked about gay issues before. Just the other night when I was talking to her she mentioned that she saw Brokeback Mountain on its opening night, and that it was wonderful and that I should definitely see it. One of my gay friends humorously pointed out, "Hey, she's extremely liberal. She's a vegetarian. She loves cats. And she drives a manual Subaru Outback. Of course she's a lesbian." While I laughed, I only wish it were that simple. I'm sorry this post is so long, but as you can see, the history here is quite complicated. If you need any other examples of these conflicting things that she does, oh I've got plenty. (One interesting thing she suggested recently was that after spring break, we're to sit down and plan a 1-2 week camping trip to Washington State for this summer. Just me and her.) So let me know what you think. I really like her, and I when we hang out together I just don't understand how she has these issues with boys. How could they not see how complex she is and act accordingly? Granted, I don't have a full grasp on part of her, but really, sometimes I feel like I could do so much better than the latest guy she liked. I just want to say, "Hey, I'm right here. Right under your nose." But on the other hand, maybe she already knows that. So...what do you all think?

I'm actually on the LGBT campus center's email list so I do get notified about their events. Unfortunately, most of them are for people +21 (my school is big on drinking). I think I'll eventually be able to attend some of their functions, but in the meantime, do you agree with my mentor, that I just have to hang out with gay people and then I'll just "know?" Aren't there any sort of signs/clues that I can look for in the mean time? Oh and I think she meant that lesbians wear a lot of layers of clothes. That just seems so random though.

I seriously lack gaydar. Are there any ways to hone in my skills? Or are there specific things to look for (this goes for men and women)? You see, considering myself a part of the LGBT community, it's kind of imperative that I have gaydar. I'm only "out" with close family members and close friends. So while I'm working on the coming out thing (totally separate issue), I don't feel like embarrassing myself in front of some straight girl, especially if she's a friend. I'm only good at picking out people that are more obvious, not subtle ones. I have a gay mentor (seriously, the LGBT campus center at my university assigned her to me ) and basically all she's said is that it'll come to me the more I hang around gay people. She also randomly mentioned that lesbians are more likely to wear layers. I have no idea what that's about. On top of that, I'm just sick of straight girl crushes. I hate getting close to someone, naively hoping for something that won't, and can't, be there. I'm actually having a problem with that right now...I have this friend, whom we'll call Erin, that I'm on this rollercoaster ride of uncertainty with. We got to know eachother this past summer and ever since, she's been lurking in the back of my mind. I guess that probably has to do with the circumstances of how we met, but that's a story for later (that is, if anyone doesn't mind helping me sift through the history she and I share, and giving their take on the situation). So if anybody has suggestions, I'm all ears.

I guess things like psychology are best left to professionals. Thanks for all of your input. It's deeply appreciated