Prufrock06

Hmm...nice suggestion but I'm not sure if that invitation would be too blatant or obvious? I was planning on seeing the movie regardless of whether I find anyone to go with -- maybe I'll just write about my reaction to it in an email if he doesn't end up tagging along. I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the movie, FoxLocke, as I'm looking forward to seeing it ("the gay cowboy" movie as it's referred to here during family dinner discussions I read the short story years ago -- way before I began to recognize my sexuality -- and the fact that Jake Gyllenhall's in it certainly makes seeing the movie that much more urgent, haha But since I can't have Jake Gyllenhall (and since you probably won't share him with me, FoxLocke, haha) I'm back in the real world dealing with this issue -- which has thankfully taken a break for a couple weeks as I'm away from him and on vacation over the holidays. I think I've decided for now, after much consideration of opinions from all of you posters and from my non cyber-friends, to just appreciate the new friend I have and try and tone down these feelings I have for him. Maybe towards the end of next semester, as I get ready to graduate, I'll think about sitting him down and letting him know that I care about him on more than just a "friends" level. But who knows, maybe I'll be back with some complaining, advice-seeking post a few weeks from now when the feelings I have for him once again become much too unbearable, haha! I still think about him from time to time and will probably sit down and write him a nice email in a couple days just to see how his holidays are going -- he always responds with these nice, long emails that are always great to read!

Interesting -- and truthful -- cycle that you've outlined, pianoguy. I can totally relate in the sense that I get up to the middle of step six (I have yet to experiment with Internet dating but find it much more promising than the typical club scene). I agree with the other posters on this thread in that the cycle seems to become a problem around step three, which is trying to decipher whether your crush is straight or gay or bisexual or closeted or whatever. You're not alone in your frustrations in that regard and I feel like I should agree in saying that it's best to date people whom you're absolutely certain about their sexuality -- but that's easier said that done. I wish I could just "get over" my friend but I fear like it will take something like me graduating from school and moving away to break these feelings. It's great that you're keeping your options open and dating online, even if it's not working out as you hoped it would be. You're not going to find Mr. Right on the first try and it would be foolish to settle for anything less than what you're looking for/what you're happy with, even if you feel this pressure to have a "make out buddy," because that won't solve any of these feelings and might only make them worse. The best thing to do (and again, it takes a lot of work) is to train yourself to appreciate the new friends you're making without letting your emotional feelings for them overwhelm your interractions. With my friend, I've decided to settle for just enjoying our friendship and letting whatever happens happen. FoxLocke is right in saying that it should be up to them to make a move, especially when we've let them know about our sexuality but not our feelings for them. We've put ourselves out there, so to speak, and that's all we can do without feeling like we're putting the friendship in jeopardy, I guess.

Yeah, I have no plans to spontaneously kiss him -- I was just using those instances as a reference to describe how I feel for this guy. I agree with you both, pianoguy and FoxLocke, in that kissing as a way of deciphering someone's sexuality/interest is a risky, potentially disastrous move. It's interesting that you use the term "sexual tension" in your last post, FoxLocke, because I feel sometimes like the tension is much more emotional than it is sexual. I mean, don't get me wrong, I find this guy absolutely gorgeous on a physical level but I find myself much more attracted to him on an interpersonal, emotional level. It's like when everyone talks about two people "gelling" because they have a lot in common -- that's the kind of tension I feel in this situation: that there's such great potential for a romantic relationship of some kind if only I could figure out what the heck is going on, haha! In the past, when I was closeted not only to others but to myself as well, my crushes were always these one-dimensional physical attractions. But with this guy, the attraction (and the tension) seems (at least in my mind) to work on multiple levels than just sexual. I guess once I started discovering this "evolution" in my attraction to guys from the purely physical to the physical and emotional I started thinking that this might be more than just a phase. Anyone else ever notice this/feel this way? P.S. I hope I'm not coming accross as insane or obsessed -- it's just that this issue has been pent up in me for a while and other than you all on this board I haven't really be able to talk about this with many people on a level I feel my peers (read: gay guys) can identify with.

Your feelings are perfectly understandable. And while I don't think these issues of overcompensation and perfectionism are problems that only gay people deal with, I think gay guys like us certainly have this idea of trying to compensate, or "make up for" the presumed "fault" of our being gay, being outside the norm, if that makes sense. I've always been something of a perfectionist: always tried to get straight As in school and was disappointed when I got Bs; never got into trouble or colored outside of the lines like all my friends did. Hopefully you'll find, like I did, that coming out helps to quiet down a lot of this pressure -- the more you see yourself as perfect in your imperfections (not to suggest that being gay is an imperfection -- I mean it in the general sense of society's views of it as something of an imperfection), the more you'll find these feelings loose their power over you. And you'll find that there are people out there in the world who don't care much for perfectionists and who'll appreciate you for the way you are, "warts and all" as the saying goes. I try not to let my sexuality guilt-trip me into overcompensating, and it is hard sometimes not to feel that way, but it seems to me that in coming out to yourself, you've taken that first, "one-step-for-man-one-giant-leap-for-mankind" step. And you've also recognized this relationship between your sexuality and your feelings of overcompensation, which is another plus. -- a fellow "alien gay man"

"Or he could be straight and just being really open and non judgemental...Not trying to rain on your parade, but that is always a possibility." This is always in the back of my mind and is something I always bring up to my friends when talking with them about this -- but they seem adamant that's not the case, to the point where my sisters get mad at me for not thinking that he might be bisexual and is fond of me. It's weird: sometimes I have a hard time conceiving of someone else having lasting feelings for me, so perhaps in a way I'm self-sabatoging this whole issue. I feel like it's just a matter of time before my desire to tell him my true feelings for him will overwhelm my desire to keep the friendship in the safe place it's at now. I've never had a crush on another guy this intense: probably because its the first one I've had since accepting myself and coming out to others and the one in which there seems to be some sort of potential. But then I kick myself in the rear and say, "It's too good to be true. Life doesn't work out that smoothly." Perhaps I should just follow your footsteps, FoxLocke, and remain friends with him and wait for him to make the next move (which was my original plan after telling him I was gay). But then part of me is getting slaughtered daily by this curiosity of what might be -- for instance, yesterday evening when I saw him to his car, I shook his hand when what I really wanted to do was hug him and kiss him. It reminds me also of this time we were taking a nearly empty bus home after a performance and it was the two of us sitting side-by-side in the dark and I just had this urge to lean over and kiss him on the cheek, just for the hell of it to see how he would react (this was before he knew I was gay and no, of course, I didn't follow through on my impulse, haha). Sigh...I could go on all day about this guy. At least I know one thing for sure: I'm completely smitten.

registered, I suppose that prefacing it in that way would make it sound less like a blatantly intrusive question and more like a question I should ask out of personal feelings? I wonder if I asked him whether he was gay or straight or bi in the context of me having feelings for him would bring out a more honest response than if I just asked him to ask the question?

Yeah, we've talked briefly about my sexuality one time last week when he came over to my place -- that was the evening/morning we sat around drinking and talking until 4 in the morning. He talked about how he'd never had a really good friend who was gay and that he assumed he would meet someone like that during college. He also doesn't have a problem with the two of us hanging out together when I asked him whether he was bothered by the fact that I was gay (under the curiosity that fairie mentioned about straight guys being uncomfortable with gay friends). He also said he didn't want to exhaust the topic (homosexuality) in one evening, which I assume means we'll talk about it in the future. Of course, once he figured out I was gay and single, I figured he would make some kind of move -- but perhaps he is just hesitant to do anything about it? Or maybe I'm just consumed with wish-fulfillment. He's never told me out and out that he's straight, but I've inferred that this is what he wants me to think from some things he's mentioned (ie. "I like foreign girls" -- then again, contrast this with one time he said "if I told my grandparents I was gay, they would kick me out of their house" when we were talking about our grandparents' "primitive" ideas on things like politics and sexuality). Still, I wouldn't know how to broch the subject -- I guess I should preface it by telling him that I think he's a great friend but I'm attracted to him on a deeper level than I am with my other friends? Sometimes I worry about screwing up this new friendship, and other times I think: what do I have to lose? I guess a part of me too is worried about finding out definitively his sexuality because then I'll have to take all these feelings and flush them down the drain. Still, it's a bit confusing (which is no surprise).

So yeah, I'm looking for any and all advice on how to interpet/deal with this situation regarding the "straight-seeming" crush I've had on my friend for the past couple months. Forgive the length of this post but I feel the need to be detailed about this in order to (hopefully) get the best advice. I met this guy a couple months ago and we quickly became friends. I would always run into him during the week at the gym and we would smile at one another in passing, say the occasional hello -- that's about it. I noticed him from the start and thought he was really cute, so much so that whenever I saw him running around the track I would always smile and think to myself "Yes! He's here today!" Well, one day after finishing up a few laps on the track (with him running too, but not with me) I cool down by making a few laps around the track. Then he comes up to me, says hello, and begins walking with me. We must have walked around the track for 20 minutes or so, just talking and going through the traditional introductory material but also hitting on deep points that seemed un-ideal in a first-meeting (such as his heritage and my heritage, views on foreign issues, etc.) Then he says he has to go but invites me to this lecture at the student union later that evening -- so, not wanting to pass up on the moment, I end up going. The room is crowded but he's saved a seat for me and when he sees me, he smiles and pats the seat next to him. When I settle down next to him, he says he's glad that I could make it. So after the lecture, we end up walking back to our dorm rooms and continuing talking about almost everything under the sun -- he looks at me with his big, gorgeous eyes and smiles constantly when talking to me and when we get to his dorm, he asks to exchange phone numbers so we can hang out again in the future. He calls me on Saturday (our first meeting having been on a Tuesday) and we go out to dinner with his roommate and hang around his room for a couple hours drinking and talking. And so its continued for the past couple months. We meet up at the gym and the two of us eat dinner afterwards, he invites me to parties and events but always seems to gravitate towards me, as if he's really interested in what I have to say. We see each other at least twice a week and talk occasionally online, etc. The dilemma (of course) is that I don't know whether he's straight or not. There are many signs that he is (and that he likes me) but I always seem to undermine them by thinking that his online facebook profile says he's interested in women. On the other hand, he looks at me and smiles at me in a way I've never encountered with my straight friends; he touches my hand or arm on occasion (such as when we were at a comedy show and were talking about how everyone is always so eager to meet the celebrity -- he pulls my hand out of my pocket and shakes my hand to illustrate this point); we talk for hours just the two of us, whether its in his room or in mine -- sometimes until 4 in the morning; one time at a football game (neither of us really like sports but we went anyway) it was cold and he asked if I wanted him to hold me (as a joke?). He doesn't really talk about girls a lot and even at parties, he seems more interested in talking to me than in macking on girls in the room. All my friends have met him and are convinced that he's gay from the way he acts (he's like me: not very effeminate but not very stereotypically masculine either, if that makes any sense, haha) and the way he looks at me, but I guess I still just have the doubt that a) he's gay or bi and b) that even if he was either of those, he would be interested in someone like me. He's recently found out I'm gay and while I was terrified he would ignore me or avoid me, he still hangs around me like he always did before he knew, still invites me out to do things, etc. One time he was out for a walk around campus late at night and called me out of the blue and asked if I wanted to meet up with him because he had no one else really to call. To put the capper on it, I had him over to my house this evening with some of my other friends and we all had a good time. He looked at me a lot while we all talked and when everyone around the table was talking, often times it was just the two of us holding a completely different conversation than everyone else. He made a passing comment about Johnny Depp being hot and a reference to legislation in favor of homosexuals. I gave him a nice card for Christmas, with a nice personal message talking about how it was my last year of college and I hadn't banked on making any new friends but thanked him for proving me wrong. He got me a present: a book about the Velvet Underground and when I called him on the phone after he left to thank him, he mentioned how he remembered that was the first band I told him about the first time we met and how he found it in a museum in Philly and picked it up for me. I told him the gift meant a lot to me. So, I know this post is going on and on and I hate to sound like someone who says "Ohhh! He touched me! He must like me!" but I seriously don't know how to deal with this and I'm curious about your interpretations. As I've said, everyone whose met him thinks he might be gay or bi and is attracted to me but maybe doesn't know how to express it. He's a freshman and 18 years old and I wonder sometimes if maybe he's just not ready to deal with this -- as I was at his age. But god, I have this amazing crush on him that really gets to me sometimes, especially during the moments when I think he's straight and that nothing is ever going to come to pass of all this. I mean, regardless of his orientation, I've made a great new friend and for that I'm thankful -- but still, sometimes I can't help but dream about being in a relationship with him.... Should I tell him that I have a crush on him/am attracted to him as more than just a friend? I'm not too sure how he would react or whether this is even an appropriate thing to do. Should I ask him point blank if he's maybe bisexual? We're both heading out of town for the holidays but we don't live far from each other at home and we made plans to get together after the new year before we head back to school. So I dunno...it just frustrates me when everyone I know whose met him or who I tell this long story to says that he's gay or bi and then I get mixed signals like the occasional reference to a hot girl (he's apparently never been in that many relationships and is a virgin, whatever that means). Is he just a very sociable, friendly person and I'm just looking into things too much because I'm new at this whole gay thing and am anxious to be loved/in a relationship? God, I think about him all the time -- I remember the first time I felt that it would never work out I cried myself to sleep -- but we always end up doing something a few days down the road and I'm getting better at not letting the ambiguity get to me. I just wish I had a chance with this guy and knew for certain his feelings for me (if there are any beyond friendship)... Okay, my sappy schoolboy rant has concluded.

"I can relate to how your feeling Foxlocke ALOT! I'm actually feel like I'm about to explode, I'm becoming extremely depressed.All throughout high school, I was quiet & had hardly any friends & no one to relate to. While all of the straight kids had fun & date, then being able to tell their friends about it etc etc. I couldn't really participate in that though I liked to.I spent most of my time being quiet & withdrawn because I was afraid people would find me out in one way or the other. So hardly anyone gave me much thought or attention & I felt lonely & depressed during school. Never having a boyfriend or anything like that.." It's rough, I know, to be in the position you're in right now. I had this exact same high school experience and spent a lot of my time being "quiet and withdrawn" as a result of many things, my feelings for other guys included. Being in these constantly fluctuating moods is emotionally draining, to say the least. One minute you're proud of yourself for admitting to yourself that you're gay and thinking you can live a successful life and the next moment, seemingly at the drop of the proverbial hat, you become all doom and gloom and wish you could change or take it all back or whatever -- who knows how many times I felt this way (in fact, I still do sometimes, but never as much as I used to before coming to terms with myself). In a way, I don't think that you should completely sever ties with your family once you move off to college; distance yourself, yes, but completely disappear from their radar, I dunno... -- but I DO think that you have the right attitude in thinking that college will be a fresh new start; a new environment where you don't know anyone, no one has any preconceptions of who you are or what you're like, so you can be whoever you want to be. Being in college now (but on my way out the door after one more semester), I only wish I had come out or been honest about my sexuality when I started school instead of now, when I'm finishing it. So this whole "new start" approach is a great one to take, especially considering that coming out in general is kind of like getting oneself together and starting anew. At least, that's the way I feel for the most part after three months. Also, the "I Don't Care" attitude that FoxLocke talked about was, for me at least, an important part of getting through this whole emotional mess in the sense that once you let loose of some of your inhibitions/constraints, you're surprised at how much untapped personal strength you discover in yourself. Of course, this is not to say your approach to this issue should be entirely reckless and without any thought -- but to a certain degree, not caring about others' reactions to your sexuality can certainly make dealing with the issue a lot less burdening.

ThaKid, I was in your shoes a few months back, when I hadn't come out to my close friends and was still only entertaining the notion of doing so. I was mostly afraid they would drop me not so much because of my sexuality (they are all pretty liberal minded) but because I had led them on so many times about girlfriends, sexual experiences, dates, etc. etc. -- all of which were nonexistent and made up on the spot. I remember a friend was driving me back to my dorm a year ago and she asked me how many relationships I'd been in. I quickly responded with three and then she asked me their names. I panicked and said the first three names that came to my mind: Alexis, Christina and Maggie. LOL! Of course, my excuse for not going into too much detail was that I was bothered by it and because I considered it private, painful information. Having friends constantly pressure you about going on dates or hooking you up with a girl can certainly add a whole source of unwelcome stress on you while you consider coming out to them. I used to have anxiety dreams about this one girl I told all my guy friends I had a crush on: in the dream, we had made plans to have sex and I spent the whole day shopping for condoms and filled with the most intense dread and worry that I wouldn't be able to perform because I wasn't aroused by women. I feel like sooner or later you're going to have to come clean to them, if only to alleviate some of this stress that's bothering you. Working on your self-confidence is the best thing you can do at this stage, especially if you're not yet prepared to come out to them -- I used to feel the same way you do (and still do, occasionally, though I've gotten better at it). Coming out to close friends is a scary thing -- but once it's over with, it's like someone's released a pressure valve and all this blocked up air comes rushing out and you can breathe again. Is there one friend in particular you think you could talk to first? Someone who you could trust not only with your sexuality but with keeping a secret until the time came where you had enough strength to tell others? If so, this friend might be the best person to start with. Good luck! Hang in there and stay strong!

Wow Jinx, I completely understand where your coming from with your post! Even though we're in different stages of coming out, I can still sympathize with this turmoil that happens in social situations with friends or with family who don't know your orientation. For example, I was at a party the other night with a friend and one of the guys there went on about how so and so and such and such was "gay", so and so acted "like a straight up fag" etc. etc. etc. I didn't really get mad and my friend (the "straight" guy I'm interested in) looked concerned about me taking offense -- but I had to say to myself, I guess this is what happens when you're not flamboyantly gay and you don't wear your sexuality on your sleeve. I also wondered: what's the point in coming out to this total stranger, especially considering I'll probably never see him again for the rest of my life. Still, perhaps telling him I was gay would have shut him up or made him think twice, but I didn't want to go through the trouble of pulling something like that. It's always difficult not knowing when to keep quiet and when to stand your ground, especially when family is involved as is the case with you and FoxLocke. I know I'm not looking forward to the holidays this year and dealing with the standard homophobic talk from my uncle (who, funny enough, asked me if I asked for a lapdance on my Christmas List -- what should I say? Yes, but not a lapdance from a girl? All I told him on the phone was a hesitant "No..." and then we both laughed). Sometimes, if it doesn't bother you so much it's worth tolerating or having a good laugh about. But if its something that constantly eats away at you, then I might consider speaking out in some manner, if only to defend yourself. "Then there is always the woman I was interested in before whom swore she was straight. Well, we had been very on and off on our socializing, and after awhile I threw my hands up in the air and gave up so to speak and decided to leave it up to her unless she was right there up close to talk to. Now she has taken to making an effort about speaking to me, actually just the other day, I seen her and she showed no sign of planning to talk so I went on walking. Next thing I know she is up beside me, it kind of startled me because usually I can hear people walking up behind me. Anyhow she initiated short conversation and then floated off in her own direction. She has done this many times since then. Then I caught her looking at me one day when I was reading, and then she looked away. This look, catch, look away, try again has gone on so many times I don't know what to think. Its odd, like this is some game about closer I get she pulls away, I pull away she moves in. Puzzles me. " These straight crushes are always tormenting, aren't they? I too find myself concerned about how to broach the topic of asking someone their sexuality -- I mean, is that considered the polite thing to do? My friends think I should just out and out (no pun intended) ask my straight-seeming friend if he's gay but I just don't see how someone can drop a question like that and not expect some ramifications. "Friends is fine with me, but it is indeed the oddest friendship." Perhaps that should be the motto for all straight/straight-seeming crushes, haha. I hope things work out well with you and this girl. Seems to me like you might be right in your assumptions that she's not completely straight, but she might have a hard time coming to terms with it or even entertaining the notion which, again, is typically of those kinds of crushes. Please keep us all posted!

Thanks everyone! These responses have been tremendously helpful! It's good to know that I'm not alone in these feelings -- not that I ever suspected I was, but sometimes it's nice to hear from other people who've experienced the same feelings. To answer your question, FoxLocke, I've often wondered too whether it has to do with these whole picture-perfect American Dream. Being an English major, I've always been into analyzing and reading into things -- perhaps too much for my own good. Which probably explains why I spend so much time analyzing my fears about being alone or being excluded from any stereotypical sense of American "happiness." I think there's a lot at work here in the sense that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people are immediately excluded from this white-picket-fence scenario. Do you remember any Norman Rockwell paintings of two married men or two married women sitting on some 1940s front porch, holding hands and watching the sunset? ;-) Society engrains in us from early childhood (unfarily, before our sexual identities have developed) that the nuclear family/the suburban lifestyle/fill in the blank with any picture-perfect image you want that this is what we need in order to be happy. Sometimes I feel like society "markets" this product in the same way a car company would market a hot new vehicle or a fast food chain would market their latest stomach-boggling sandwhich. But if we can learn to avoid the temptation of these marketing strategies, then we can learn to be happy with what we have or learn to yearn for the things we want instead of the things we're TOLD that we want. If only it were as easy to shrug off societal advertizements of the American Dream as it is to shrug off sugary cereal commercials, haha! At the end of the day, though, I think people like us can acquire our own sense of happiness and cultivate our own dream. Allow me to throw in a literary reference: the message of Voltaire's Candide is to "cultivate your own garden" and I think in a sense this applies to what we're talking about. The dream of two kids, a wife, a car, a dog, a house with a front yard, a 9-5 job with weekends off -- this is all someone else's garden and not our own. Our own gardens involve our homosexuality or bisexuality and so we need to learn to make our own dreams based on who WE are (gay) and not who society ASSUMES we are (straight). I do think it's possible to be gay and live a perfectly happy, successful life that would rival anything Norman Rockwell could paint. When I started to believe that is when I knew for sure that I was coming out. It's just that occasionally, these common fears we all have make me wonder and worry...But I suppose these emotional blips are to be expected from someone who's only recently comes to terms with their sexuality.

Every once in a while -- maybe it's after hanging around my straight crush or my married friends or hearing about a good friend of mine falling in love -- I'll get these intense feelings of loneliness and worry about never falling in love, never finding the right guy to spend the rest of my life with, etc. etc. Sometimes I feel like I'm just the gay best friend, you know? The novelty toy who gives warm hugs and good advice that's never really reciprocated. For example, a month or so back I went to a party with this guy I had a crush on and took a picture of him with this girl from one of his classes. I went home that night devastated and thinking that I was going to be the guy who always takes pictures of other people but never have people to take pictures of me with someone I love. It doesn't happen very often, but when it does, it can be quite emotionally draining. It's all very depressing, self destructive thinking (and yes, I do have some self-esteem and self-efficacy issues, but I'm getting better with those -- coming out has certainly helped in that regard) and seems rooted in this deep fear I have that there's no one out there to love me or no one who would be willing to receive my love and that I'm going to end up old and alone and wishing I'd never come out as gay so I could pass for straight -- that way I'd have a wife and kids, at least. Even though I know most of the time that this isn't true, it's still kind of difficult to convince myself of this once I get swept up in these feelings. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, but I wonder, if or when you do feel this way, how do you cope with these feelings of loneliness and hopelessness? Why also do you think these feelings are so common among people like us (as I've looked through numerous profiles of my gay peers on the internet where they describe their fears as "being alone")?

I do belong to one of the GLBT groups at the campus where I attend graduate school. I joined during the middle of the fall semester after I started coming out to some of my friends. I also joined a GLBT support group at the campus health center and it's been a great help in dealing with particular issues I have as well as learning how other of my peers deal with their own sets of problems. I guess I'm more concerned with the process of meeting gay guys, not just as as friends or networking but more with the intention of dating and starting a relationship. I'm going to be graduating this May and will be out in the "real world" (whatever that means) so I guess this is why this issue is of some concern to me now. I'm not really a mainstay of the bar/club scene although I would eventually like go occasionally to have a good time, or if I was on a date -- but not to find someone to hook up with. I've never been to a gay club or a gay bar and I guess in a sense I'm intimidated by these environments for the feeling I get that they stress hooking up as opposed to meeting people and/or having a fun time. So I wonder where us non-hook-uppers would gravitate to if clubs and bars aren't necessarily our primary watering hole? It seems like if you're not in an environment that's exclusively designated for gay people, then it becomes difficult to meet gay people outside that environment. I, for one, don't want to feel like I have to go to certain "gay-only" environments to meet other guys. I dunno, maybe that's the wrong attitude to have?

I suppose my experience with sexuality and religion is a bit different from some of the other posters in this thread. I wasn't raised under any particular religion, but rather under all of them, so to speak. My father is a Muslim and my mother a Methodist so the way my sisters and I were raised religiously speaking was that all religions are inherently the same at a fundamental level (an ironic use of the word, I know) in the sense that they all stress a believe in a higher power, a higher calling, a higher purpose, whatever that power/calling/purpose may be: Jesus, Allah, Krishna, Yaweh, Buddha, etc. etc. etc. So every weekend my father would take us to a different place of worship: sometimes we went to a synagogue, other times to a mosque, numerous churches (Catholic, Methodist, Unitarian). Most of the time, however, we alternated between a local Unitarian Universalist church and a community mosque and it was in these two places that I cultivated some sense of spirituality and faith. But to be honest, I tended to gravitate more towards the Unitarian church for many reasons: one of which was the way in which their faith and community openly embraced homosexuality -- something I found pleasant even though at the time I was still denying that I was gay myself. I suppose in a way during my youth my adamant support for gay rights and equality was the result of a kind of repressed recognition that I was gay myself. Anyway, contrast this with the mosque and other places where homosexuality was either a) not discussed or b) decried in the same manner that other posters have talked about. Though I don't belong to a particular religious faith as of today, I still have great respect for all religions, despite the movements of fundamentalism that plague ALL of them, not just Christianity and Islam. I guess my own personal faith is rooted more in spirituality; in the idea of something out there greater than myself that I accept I have no way of understanding completely and that religion and faith is a means of interpreting that "greatness" and applying it to our daily life. Some days I would call myself an agnostic, but for the most part, I feel I've lived too long and seen to much not to think that there is SOMETHING (whatever that may be) that's at work here in this crazy thing called life. In the context of my sexuality, I suppose this open view of faith and religion made accepting myself easier perhaps than some others who have been raised in a specific religious environment that constantly criticized and shunned homosexuality. Most of my issues with suppressing my true feelings and desires were the result of social phobias, not necessarily religious ones. Though I was terrified of telling my father I was gay given his religious background -- however, he is a very open-minded, liberal Muslim (ie. he drinks liquor and eats pork and doesn't necessarily pray all the time -- he's more into spirituality which I suppose is where I get that from). He does not agree with homosexuality on religious and moral principles, but he made sure to tell me that he separates that from the fact that I am his son and he loves me, as I'm sure I've mention in earlier posts. But I feel like embracing my sexuality and learning to live as a proud gay guy has definitely aided my own sense of personal spirituality and faith. I feel more connected to myself on a personal and spiritual level -- I feel more fulfilled, more positive about my presense on this earth, which is exactly what I think religion is supposed to do. I've always believe religion is a very personal matter in the sense that everyone has issues with their faith at times, everyone questions their motives and beliefs. That, however, is all a part of having faith -- I've questioned my beliefs at times, made changes, compromises, etc. etc. I don't think of faith as something that's static, that can never be changed. It's not carved in stone like the Ten Commandments but rather it's fluid -- it shifts and changes and morphs the older we get and the more life experience we gain. I have no doubt that ten years from now, my faith and religious beliefs could very well shift in any number of directions. I could become an atheist or fall in love with a Christian and convert to Christianity (or fill in the blank with any other faith or denomination). And being comfortable with that shifting nature of faith, with the idea that it's ever changing, makes me more comfortable about my sexuality and helps me to think that I can be a perfectly happy, perfectly successful gay male despite societal pressures and stereotypes or the constant damnation of homosexuality by preachers of all faiths. Wow, this was a great question! Made me think about myself a lot! Hope it helped give you the perspective you were looking for!

"From the age of 12 until seven months ago I've been repressing my sexuality. That was 12 entire years of refusing to acknowledge something vital and intrinsic to myself as a human being...But I had to define myself for myself or else I would have gone stark raving mad. So basically, that is the jist of why I am so ambivalent about it. I'm so afraid of dissappointing my mother...I honestly do believe that she will love me, regardless, but I don't want things to change between us." I understand exactly where you're coming from. Fear of disappointment is a big part of this whole coming out process. I know that inside, my mom is probably disappointed and in denial because she never wants to talk about my sexuality at all, not even to see how I'm doing in regards to having come out, etc. etc. It seems like after I came out to her, that was the end of the discussion and we put it in a mason jar and sealed the lid so that we'd never have to worry about the issue. At the same time, there came a point where I realized in coming out to my parents the following: I'm 23 years old, dammit! I've been a good son -- I've never gotten in trouble with the law, I make great grades, I don't do drugs, I don't get random women pregnant (for reasons much more obvious to them now than back then, haha) -- and I deserve to be comfortable about myself, to not go "stark raving mad" over something as simple as my sexual preference. So I guess I just convinced myself that the time was past for my life's goal to please my parents and to shut off my sexuality in order not to disappoint them -- I really feel like I've made the right choice in coming out, regardless of whether they like to talk about it or not. I just wish I could make them see that by being myself, and accepting myself, I'm on the track to living a fulfilling life. Seems to me that that should be what a parent wants of his or her child -- I know that's what I would want of mine. If you believe that your mother will love you regardless, and you have such a close relationship with her, then odds are your assumptions are correct. Of course, I know that believing something and accepting it are two completely different tasks. But you are an adult, and entitled to live the life you want to live and to make your own decisions and create your own impact on the world. In short, you're entitled to "define yourself for yourself" and whenever you do choose to come out to your mother, just remember that it's another moment of you taking your own life by the reins, which can be a scary thing, I know. But don't they always say that difficult and scary things are the best at helping us grow? "P.E. every non athletic gay kid's worst nightmare come true" -- LOL! Amen.

brahman: Thanks for the compliment, I think. Although I'm not too keen on these relationship roles like dominant and passive because they remind me too much of traditional, outdated male-female roles (male being dominant, female being passive). Thanks for your input, everyone. I guess I just get frustrated sometimes (like tonight, for instance) and lovesick and hung up on the idea that there are so few gay guys around my age interested in relationships that I wonder, why even bother? It's probably one of the main reasons (along with some of yours, Jinx and FoxLocke) that I stayed in the closet for so long: because I figured there's no way I could compete with a subculture that seemed so dependent on quick, emotionless sex. For instance, one of the reasons I like this message board is because I feel I can talk about being gay and gay issues, etc. without having to descend into such rote topics like "name/age/position/length" or other such message board topics that seemed more geared toward sex instead of relationships. When I was surfing the internet searching for a message board that dealt with issues that I was concerned about, all I could seem to come accross were forums and posts and posters with nothing but c**k on the brain. And I guess to some extent I understand that this emphasis on sex is a result of cultural repression, but I guess I'm just not into the politics of being gay so much that I feel the need to relate on that level. I guess I feel like finding someone to love, someone who loves me -- in other words, finding a soulmate -- is more important than this philosophy of "sex for sex's sake." It's gotten to the point where I even tire of porn because it seems so emotionless -- lately the "money shots" for me have been scenes of kissing or sweet-talking or cuddling instead of anything more traditional and graphic. God, I'm such a romantic, lovesick sap! ;-)

I've found myself in a bit conflict as of late as to the whole question of relationships. Other than fooling around with a few friends during middle school (all under the umbrella of "experimentation"), I've never been in a relationship with another guy. Hell, I haven't even kissed another guy. Pretty pathetic, huh? But of course, like a lot of other people, I find myself yearning to be in a relationship and my fear is that other gay guys are only interested in hooking up. I don't have any conflicts with the idea of hooking up, I personally just don't have the emotional composition to fit in with that kind of culture (I've always believed that sex is something intimate, something to wait until after a few dates before enjoying) I fear sometimes that I'll be at a loss when it comes to dating and relationships because no one is interested in cuddling or romance or intimate interpersonal connections or anything that doesn't involve sex. I realize that this is merely how my perceptions of homosexual culture have been shaped my popular culture, but sometimes I worry that my preference for relationships over hooking up will affect my "marketability" as a young gay guy. Does anyone else out there yearn for a deep, personal relationship instead of just a random hook-up? What are your opinions on relationships vs. hooking up (or in combination)? Is someone at a loss/gain because they value one over the other?

Hmmm... Funny enough, I can remember the first guy I ever had "those" kind of feelings for. He was in my seventh grade art class and I remember thinking about him in a sexual context and thinking to myself, "hmmm....this is strange." Of course, I thought it was just a one-time feeling, so I didn't contemplate it so much. Until I kept thinking about him -- and then about other guys in my class. More and more often. Not to mention the cute guys in movies and television shows, which I would try and watch "in secret" so that no one else would know I was watching the show to oogle over whoever happened to be my crush at the time. I always thought of it, though, as just a phase -- something else that every other guy in school experienced but didn't really talk about, like masturbation. And my thoughts and feelings were so repressed, I guess, that I never gave it enough thought to consider that I was different. Certainly I was different in other areas: I hated sports, enjoyed reading, I'm biracial, etc. etc. Not that these qualities are signs of homosexuality; I'm just trying to make the point that whatever difference I felt, it was more social than sexual. The feeling of sexual difference didn't come until late in high school/early into undergraduate college when I began to recognize my feelings for other guys my age as something unique only to gay guys. Of course, at the time, I wouldn't dare imagine identifying with such a group -- I still, right up until I began to accept myself as gay, believed that my "difference" would evaporate once I found the right girl. And now here I am, fresh out of the closet, somewhat comfortable with my "difference," and hoping to find the right guy someday.

"So far the only soul I've told is my dog, and he still loves me unconditionally..." FoxLocke, that is EXACTLY the first person (er, animal) I came out to as well! LOL! It's nice how dogs don't seem to care about the sexuality of their owners -- all they care about is having someone to love them and play with them. Sigh...if only people were like that. "I told one of my child hood buddies and he said that he knew when we were kids...I asked him how did he know? And he replied that he thought it was odd that I wanted to play strip poker with other guys. Over the years I rationalized that incident as childhood experimentation...But it was basically me being gay." LOL! Been there, done that. And yeah, I rationalized it as childhood experimentation as well but in hindsight, of course, I know better. And here I thought I was the only one who had those kind of devious plans for engaging other guys in a game of strip poker or truth or dare, haha I agree with other posters: there's absolutely no need to rush anything. And coming out to close friends is a great way to "practice" for coming out to your mom -- and the more you come out to people, the easier it gets. I know, I thought it sounded ridiculous too, but it's really true. That's not to say you need to come out to every single soul you know in order to feel like you've "completed" the coming out process (some people say that process never ends) but the repetition certainly makes it easier. Other tips that worked for me: try coming out to yourself every morning and evening when you look in the mirror, doing something casual like shaving or brushing your teeth; make a list of people you are thinking about coming out to, how you plan on coming out to them (email, phonecall, in person, letter, etc.), and ideally when you'd like to come out to them (not when you HAVE TO come out to them). It does seem to me, however, based on what you've said, that your mom might be getting an inkling about your sexuality, esp. if she's been asking you that question a lot lately -- which could, when you think about it, make this process easier for you.

James, You seem to be in the same kind of strange transitional (read: Twilight) zone I was in this past summer, which is when I finally accepted to myself that I was gay and that I could still be as happy as any of my straight friends. Having only been out with myself and others for a few months now, I can understand exactly where you're coming from and why you're feeling conflicted. It seems to me, though, that you are beginning to take the first steps to coming to some conclusions about yourself: whether you're bisexual or gay, only you can know that for sure, regardless of the advice we give. I too used to have that "missing" feeling you speak of -- like you're not experiencing life 100% the way everyone else around you seems to be experiencing it -- this was one of my (many) motivations for coming out and accepting myself for who I am. None of us deserve to have the metaphorical volume on our lives turned down low because of who we find attractive, who we want to fall in love with, etc. So take the time to process how you're feeling, ask us any questions, whatever you need. Everyone in this thread is right: there's no set timetable for you to decide about your sexuality. And take comfort in the fact that you're not the first person to feel this way, you're not the only person feeling this way now, and you won't be the last person to feel this way. Best of luck!

"Unrequited love is a real *****." I don't know what word you had in mind to fill in those asteriks, FoxLocke, but I can think of about....oh, 10 or 20, haha. I'm sorry that things didn't work out with your crush, Kid, but at least you're in good company! Crushes can be unbearable things -- I've got one right now for one of my friends (a relatively new one I made after coming out to most of my other friends) and sometimes it just pains me that he's straight (or at least, I'm pretty sure he is...) and even though we hang out all the time and he has no issues with my sexuality, I still feel like we get along so well that it kills me sometimes that there will probably never be anything more to us than just friendship. That being said, you and Jinx bring up an interesting topic: interpreting other people's facial expressions/stares/mannerisms/silent treatments, etc. He did sit down next to you, which is a sign for me that if you were the person he was having an issue with, why would he have sat next to you to begin with? My thinking, based on what information you've provided: he was having a bad day, personal issues, something like that to occupy his mind so he would stare off into space or be disinterested in any kind of conversation. Sometimes I can get like that -- zone out and not be in the mood for any kind of conversation or interraction with other people while at the same time just craving their company, if that makes sense. That could be what happened in this particular instance but you won't know for sure until the next time you see him, in which I agree with Jinx that you should show some interest in how he's feeling and whether everything is ok. "So here I am, alone with no boyfriend again.Trying to figure him out is confusing & I wish I didn't fall so hard for this guy.This sucks... I never get the guy I want." Awww....I know how you feel. I fell hard for this friend too, and I'm still trying to pick myself up off the ground and get moving again. Things like this certainly do no wonders for our self-esteem. I'm sure you have so many good things going for you, so many good qualities that other guys out there (who are probably thinking the same thing you are about themselves) wish they could find in a boyfriend. So, cliched as it sounds but meant genuinely: Keep hope alive!

Wow, thanks everyone for the kind and helpful responses! I think I'm going to stay away from making any official, Christmas-dinner type "toast' if you will and probably just think about bringing it up ONLY if it gets brought up first (as in "have you met any girls lately?" or if my uncle decides to take me to a strip club -- which he took me to on my 21st birthday -- in which case I would tell him not to waste his time anymore, haha). That way, I'll feel like I'm being honest about myself without necessarily throwing it out there like some kind of blatant display (ie. "Oh, Prufrock's gay -- let's spend the rest of the holidays focussing on that!") And thanks, James, for bringing up the idea that Xmas is stressful for everyone -- makes me think I should wait until AFTER the 25th to bring this up (if that's what I decide to do). Ultimately, I guess I won't know how to handle the situation once it arises, but I will most definitely keep all of your posts in mind, not only for their great advice but for their votes of confidence as well As for trying to get my parents and I to have a more open dialogue out this, I think it's best to play that by ear as well. I understand that they need time to "cope" with this news (although there are times when I really don't buy the whole "mourning process" argument); I guess I'm just frustrated that we all can't just talk about this nonchalantly the way they talk with my little sister about her boyfriend. P.S. Mgirl -- My username is from one of my favorite poems, "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" by T.S. Eliot. That's also where I get the verse in my forum signature from.

lilkat, I agree with the other posters in that you are most certainly not overreacting. Is this the first time you've moved in with a girlfriend? Regardless, I can imagine how complicated it can be sometimes to be in those kind of situations, especially if cohabitation is new to both people involved. Still, I think the best thing for you and your gf would be to have a deep discussion about this -- I know that sounds like obvious advice, and perhaps it is, but it seems to me the only way to get to the heart of the situation and to keep it from screwing with your mind, especially since you have no 100% certain idea how she's feeling. "after about 2 or 3 weeks it changed from people she knew to people she did not know hitting on her. They would talk and it would all start with people saying she was cute or hot" -- As an aside, myspace can certainly be a frustrating enterprise. Having a space and having browsed through countless others, it seems like everyone is quick to post about how "hot" someone else is without it necessarily meaning anything. I'm not saying that your concerns are unwarranted, but to a degree I think myspace (and other web communities like it) is a lot of reckless flirtation that shouldn't be taken to heart so much. If you are concerned about your gf's activities on myspace (as you should be), I would worry more about this one friend that she is communicating with regularly than with all the other random posts complementing her on her hotness. Hope this helps! Best of luck!

Recently got off the phone with my family and I'm in a bit of a funk. I was talking with my sister and my Dad was sitting next to her working on his laptop -- I had her ask him, just as a point of interest, how I should let my grandparents and maternal aunt and uncle know that I'm gay. BACKSTORY: My immediate family knows about my sexuality but not my relatives who we are going to visit -- and have always visited since time immemorial -- this Christmas. They do not know yet and I've been thinking these past couple weeks how to tell them -- if I even should. My Dad seems concerned as to why I should make it "such a declaration." In a sense, I agree with him, but at the same time, how would such news end up NOT being a declaration, regardless of how I tell the rest of my extended family? I'm worried most about the reactions of my Uncle, my younger cousin, and my Grandparents (esp. my Grandmother who, just like my mother, is adpet at taking complicated issues and sweeping them under the proverbial rug instead of talking about them openly). The only person I would feel absolutely comfortable telling would be my Aunt -- but then again, if I tell one person, I feel compelled to tell them all. I feel like it would be even more complicated for my immediate family to know my sexuality and my other relatives being "in the dark." But now I'm in that typical emotional cocktail of anger/sadness and I guess I'm just looking for some support/similar stories/advice. Other than my close friends and you kind people on this forum, there's really no one I can talk to about these issues. The fact that both my parents seem keen on not talking about this, or even asking me how I'm feeling or doing since coming out makes me angry to no end. My Dad (a journalist) wants to know my opinions on current events dealing with GLBT issues but he never asks me "So, how have you been getting along since coming out?", "Any luck meeting people?" etc. etc. And my mother can't even go into talking about anything remotely related to homosexuality without shutting down. Which I find funny (in both instances) because at the same time, our everyday relationship is the same as it always was and they stressed (but only when I first told them) that they loved me and didn't think less of me. Still, I know I can't count on them for any support this holiday season in regards to my extended family, which is another thing that upsets me. And of course, along with this anger comes the typical catastrophizing: maybe I made the wrong choice in coming out, maybe I'm just going to end up alone for the rest of my life, maybe I shouldn't have done this, etc. etc. -- all of which (save for the fear of being alone) will dissipate in the morning but as of this writing are boiling in my mind and driving me crazy! I guess the bottom line is: I wish my parents were more willing to talk to me and ask me about my personal feelings regarding my sexuality instead of refusing to talk about it in any deep, interesting way. Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with this or what to do regarding Christmas with the extended family? Thanks for reading through this rant!