My daughter is threatening to keep my grandchildren away unless...

[Sweet Sue]

So, this story began last year around Christmas. I have an adult daughter who is 40 years old and lives 3 1/2 hours away from me. I also have two precious grandchildren. A grandson 12 and a granddaughter who's almost 4. 

My daughter called me up and asked me if I was planning a trip up to see them for Christmas but reminded me that my grandson would not be with her during the Christmas weekend because he would be with his father. After discussing several possibilities with my fiancee 'Joe', his work schedule and church/family obligations I called her back and told her that Dec 30 would work out for us. She told me on the phone that the 30th wouldn't work either, so could I come another time. Since I was planning to make this trip with my fiancee, I asked him if he could make the trip with me- the first weekend in Jan. He said that would work for him. A few days later, my daughter called to tell me that Dec 30 would work out after all because her ex-husband told her he would let him come to her house but just for that day. I was thrilled and told her that as far as I knew, I think we could still plan a trip on the 30th, but that before I could definitely say with 100 percent certainty, I would need to check with my fiancee to be sure he had not already scheduled something for that day and that I would give her an answer the next day. 

That's when all hell broke loose! My daughter became belligerent and told me that I didn't 'need' to check with him and to just give her an answer - NOW! In fact she said, "Give me your answer right now! I need to know tonight! If you don't come on the 30th, don't bother coming at all - and if you don't come on the 30th, you will never see your grandchildren ever again!"  then she hung up the phone before I could even respond.

So, the 30th rolled around and we never made the trip. 

New Year's Day I reached out to her and wished her a Happy New Year and never got a reply. Later I would find out I was blocked on facebook too. 

Yesterday, I made another attempt to reach out to her, not to berate or scold, but to find a way to reconcile. I sent her a long text message. I sent a text message to my grandson too. His text message to me read; " Granna I don't want to have anything to do with you anymore. I expected you to come see me on the 30th and you never showed up. You picked 'Joe' over me."

That broke my heart.

Today my daughter responded to my text and was appalled that we did not show up to her home. She said that she had gone to a lot of trouble to get her son and prepared a holiday feast. The kids were extremely disappointed that I  picked 'Joe' over them. I continue to disappoint and that I don't show up for all her holiday dinners, family gatherings or social events. 

I told her that the reason we did not come was because I don't reward bad behavior. I was given an ultimatum to 'come on the 30th or else..." and as much as we were looking forward to the trip, her showing me such disrespect on the phone that night was when I made the decision I would not make the trip after all. She even took it a step further and said to me, "the next time 'Joe' comes with you and he doesn't stick around for the entire time of the birthday party, he is never allowed to come into my home ever again." 

This is deeply disturbing to me. It breaks my heart. It was never about picking one over the other- only she sees it that way. 

I am at a loss......
 

 

[Batya33]

Why didn't you go on your own? It can be complicated to schedule with a partner.  And he's not their grandfather/parent.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry this happened. Hopefully you can make amends. Seeing your children and grandchildren should Not be contingent on Joe's availability. If he can't make it, so what? You can always go on your own.

If your daughter is hosting you and they are only available at certain times, that is what you need to work around. Not Joe's schedule. 

[Batya33]

I had two friends who acted like you did - and I didn't love it.  When I had a baby/toddler I rarely got a sitter and my husband traveled a lot.  When my friends did I accommodated this. Two of my friends with no kids did the following.  One tried to pressure me into leaving my sleeping baby alone in the apartment, taking the elevator down multiple flights so I could see her boyfriend again who picked her up downstairs - I'd met him many years earlier.  She couldn't understand why I wouldn't leave my son "for just a few minutes" and didn't accept my first "no, I can't leave him alone." 

The other woman had a new and serious partner and wanted to meet my husband and I for dinner without the toddler. Obviously I understood that as he didn't belong in a fancy restaurant. I told her we were only in town for the summer and I wasn't comfortable leaving him with a sitter I didn't know. I suggested either they come over and we do take out (baby would go to sleep) or husband and I could take turns going down the block to hang out then have dessert at my home.

She said no, and she refused to reschedule, refused to see me on her own, refused to see me with the child at a casual place. Both prioritized their partner over their close friendship with me and the accommodations I needed at that time (well in the first example not an accomodation -who asks a mother to leave her sleeping baby alone in an apartment??).

You're doing the same thing -you're prioritizing your partner over your grandchildren.  Over your relationship with your daughter who's a single mom and likely really stressed trying to schedule everything and you cancel because this man who has no relation to her or her kids can't make it?  

[Seraphim]

She has custody arrangements with her ex, that controls what her son does and why. His father gave up a day with him so he could see you. 
Also mid January isn’t Christmas anymore. 
 

Also your grandson is growing up and he can see what is happening. Kids will also side with their parents . They have to live with them and are reliant on them for existence. 

[boltnrun]

Yeah, my brother chose to "right fight" and now two of his three children aren't speaking to him. I have to wonder if he feels it was worth it to place so much importance on being "right".

Do you feel it was worth losing your relationship with your grandchildren in order to punish your daughter for being "rude"? And why did your grandchildren have to be punished as well? They didn't do anything wrong. 

[Kwothe28]

I dont like her emotional manipulations. But this is on both yours and hers bad communications. If you know that she has a problem with your fiance, why even bring him into a conversation? And why not reaching out to straight things up and going on the trip if it was OK for you? Because now it seems that she waited for you with grandkids and you didnt show up. Dont get me wrong, her communication also was awful. But yours should be way better as well. This could have been straighten out very easily with phone call. And now you have way worst situation at your hand. Where you turned out to be "the bad guy". 

Sometimes our principles shouldnt take a priority. For example when they hurt us in a long track. Sure, you stick to yours. And look at where it got you. 

Another thing is that with his side not accepting you and your side not accepting him, you have an uphill battle. That I am not sure its worth in the long track where your own family wont talk to you because of it. 

[Starlight925]

She emotionally manipulated you, but I suspect there has been other trouble in your relationship with her stemming from years back.

So, to present day....why didn't you go alone on Christmas?  Or on the 30th?  Why do you have to go with Joe?  Why do you have to acquiesce to Joe and his schedule?

These are your grandchildren, for heaven's sake.

You can be right, or you can play with love on your grandchildren.  Your choice.

[Coily]

11 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

 She even took it a step further and said to me, "the next time 'Joe' comes with you and he doesn't stick around for the entire time of the birthday party, he is never allowed to come into my home ever again."

This level of friction doesn't exist in a vacuum. I think it's insensitive to both Joe and your Daughter to do this schedule dancing. They are clearly not wild about each other, why damage three relationships over what should have been a simple trip.

Sometimes doing the right thing is taking the loss and planning to win the big picture scenario.

[Sweet Sue]

Joe wanted to go and so we made plans to go together. I only hesitated to give her a reply because I wanted to check and make sure Joe could still go with me and drive me up there. There's nothing wrong with making sure my driver is available. I could have given her an answer in less than 12 hours, but she demanded and answer at that moment or else...........I would have gone up there by myself if I had to. She stated that I don't need Joe's permission. I was not seeking Joe's permission, I was only asking for a little time to see if he could still make the trip with me.

That is not the issue...

The issue is her abusive disrespectful behavior and ultimatum, then angrily hanging up on me. The way I see it as manipulation and control. If there was only a way for me to see them without her drama, I would do it. 

I believe that showing up as planned would have only reinforced her manipulative behavior. It would never end and only get worse. She'll see it as "I can disrespect my mother, make her submit to ultimatums and she'll still come up here to visit." 

Where is the benefit of rewarding this kind of behavior?

Now, she is giving me another ultimatum. Unless my fiancee spends the entire visit in her home, he will no longer be welcome if he gets up to leave and go somewhere else. 

Who holds visitor's hostages in their home? 

At the same time, I missed spending the holidays with my grandchildren. 

 

 

[Seraphim]

You have made your choice , that it is Joe, so don’t be surprised. Unfortunately, the grandkids suffer the most . 

[itsallgrand]

Kids don't understand nor care about adult drama, they just care if you are there. They grow up fast and what happens now could determine a lot of their feelings toward you as they get older and can choose to see you on their own. 

What's the main goal and priority here? You won't change your daughter . 

[Starlight925]

You still don't get it.

She might be manipulative, gaslighting, insert any psychological word here.

YOU alone chose to make this about Joe and his schedule, and YOU alone chose to miss the holidays with your grandchildren.

She can be all these things, and worse.

You chose to make this about her and her behavior, rather than seeing your grandchildren, and now you're bemoaning the fact that you didn't get to see them, and you may not, for a very long while.

She can be a horrible person, AND you can go, grit your teeth, and hug your grandchildren.  Two things can exist at once.

My mother was one of the most difficult people on the planet, but since I loved spending time with the rest of my family, I gritted my teeth, for yeeeears.  

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

That's when all hell broke loose! My daughter became belligerent and told me that I didn't 'need' to check with him and to just give her an answer - 

When children's feelings are involved it's important to be straight forward. Hiding behind Joe as a scapegoat won't help. Even your grandchild saw through that and called you out for blowing him off. It's very sad because this thing with Joe isn't turning out to be much of a success anyway. 

[LootieTootie]

Is this Joe guy really worth the hassle?

Your family doesn't like him. His family doesn't seem to like you too. He keeps telling you he can't move because he feels obligated to take care of his mother in law. And you are still probably doing his laundry... right?

Oh... and you don't need Joe to drive you. There's ways to get somewhere without relying on someone to drive you.

 

[MissCanuck]

You are just as much of a drama queen as you say your daughter is, Sue. 

 

[boltnrun]

So again, you are choosing to "right fight" rather than spend time with your grandchildren.

It's apparent they realize they're less important to you than a petty squabble with their mother.

I guarantee you won't be lying on your deathbed celebrating that you sure showed your daughter! And celebrating that you lost your relationship with your grandchildren.

[Coily]

47 minutes ago, Sweet Sue said:

The issue is her abusive disrespectful behavior and ultimatum, then angrily hanging up on me. The way I see it as manipulation and control. If there was only a way for me to see them without her drama, I would do it. 

I believe that showing up as planned would have only reinforced her manipulative behavior. It would never end and only get worse. She'll see it as "I can disrespect my mother, make her submit to ultimatums and she'll still come up here to visit." 

Where is the benefit of rewarding this kind of behavior?

Now, she is giving me another ultimatum. Unless my fiancee spends the entire visit in her home, he will no longer be welcome if he gets up to leave and go somewhere else. 

Who holds visitor's hostages in their home? 

At the same time, I missed spending the holidays with my grandchildren.

She's 40, not 14. You aren't rewarding her behavior, you are damaging the relationship with her and your Grandchildren to prove what exactly? That you are still in charge? That she needs to be taught a lesson? That rearranging the time your grand kids get to spend with their father is less important than Joe, some guy they don't really know is?

If a stranger is disruptive to a household, while maybe an extreme way to put it is not unwarranted.
Her house, her kids, her rules. Simple as.

[Seraphim]

Maybe she got mad because her kids were getting upset. Grandma is coming/ grandma isn’t coming back and forth. That is very upsetting for all concerned at holiday times . She also had an ex partner to contend with, not just her input . 
 

Like Coily and others have said , at the end of the day they are her children and unless she is driving they aren’t coming 3.5 hours to you soooooo…plus 12 years old he now has his own perceptions and he feels let down. 
 

Once your kids leave the house you are no longer “ teaching them lessons” . You don’t control adult kids. 

[Kwothe28]

22 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Once your kids leave the house you are no longer “ teaching them lessons” . You don’t control adult kids. 

Also if your kid is acting like that, that means you have done a very poor job as a parent. Sure, kids arent solely decided on parents genetics and raising them. But most of the stuff comes from home. 

[Batya33]

It's convenient you throw in Joe is your driver. Throw money at the problem.  Pay a neighbor to drive you.  Take public transportation part of the way.  I don't mean to spend your money but for goodness sakes my mom doesn't drive and she would take a close to 3 hour trip upstate to see her grandchildren AND stay over -by public transit - because my dad drove and he worked.  She worked part time.  She went in bad weather too.  She didn't wait for my dad to drive her.  For sure it was his grandchildren too and he loved them so so he would drive us there when he wasn't working but she didn't let transport stop her.

[Wiseman2]

15 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

. I sent a text message to my grandson too. His text message to me read; " Granna I don't want to have anything to do with you anymore. I expected you to come see me on the 30th and you never showed up. You picked 'Joe' over me."

Sorry to say, but you did this to yourself. You're not a victim here and your daughter isn't the problem. 

[Andrina]

I'm sure your daughter reached her boiling point because of the past build-up of all the stress your decisions in being with a less-than-ideal partner has caused within the family. Give her a break for not acting as cool as Mr. Rogers would have. I know plenty of people, including myself, who can stay even-keeled for a time when battered by the same stress over and over. But at some point, it becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Just as everyone can see your man makes his mother-in-law the priority most of the time, even when it harms his other relationships, everyone can see that you make him the priority at times it's not warranted. People, of course, have many priorities in life, but when the balance is not healthy, your loved ones become hurt and they lash out in anger. In this instance, prioritizing time with your grandkids should have outweighed anything or anyone else.

[catfeeder]

If seeing my grandchildren mattered enough to me, I'd have accepted the very first opportunity that I was offered to see them, and I'd follow with a message to my (un-related) partner, "I'll be traveling to X-town on December 29th and staying at X hotel to see my grandchildren on Dec 30th. I would love it if you can join me, either for the drive or the next day. "

Your daughter has been a flake for years, and your focus can either be to make her your primary barrier to your grandkids, OR, you can minimize the importance of daughter's antics in order to remove any unnecessary barriers to your grandkids.

Instead, you've chosen to insult both your daughter and your grandkids by using Joe as YOUR OWN barrier to your grandkids. That's really sad. You can fool yourself about your motives for that if you wish, but now you have the consequences of that choice, and even more unfortunate, so do your grandkids.

[reinventmyself]

I have adult sons, one with small children.   They come first, always.  

My sons father once strong armed the boys to show up for a dinner (with his then girlfriend and her family)  His tone was that they should feel obligated because it was the holidays, after all.

They stated it perfectly.  "that's not MY family, it's just your chick at the moment" And they didn't go.

I rarely if ever involved my sons in my relationship.  They have absolutely nothing invested in it.  Nor would I expect them too.  I do expect them to be respectful, but that's about it. 

I've been to more holidays, functions and events alone for the sake of my sons.  They didn't ask to be part of a divorced family.  I often feel bad for them having to make choices to please their parents who ultimately disappointed them by not staying together.

You should have honored your daughters wishes.  I don't condone the words she used to express her disappointment, but it appeared she moved things around to accommodate you.  

"I continue to disappoint and that I don't show up for all her holiday dinners, family gatherings or social events"

It appears there is more to this story other than this isolated incident.