My daughter is threatening to keep my grandchildren away unless...

[Jaunty]

7 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

Where is the benefit of rewarding this kind of behavior?

Letting something roll off your back is not the same as "rewarding."  The benefit would be continuing to have good relationships wth your grandkids. 

[Sweet Sue]

I didn't know she 'moved things around' for me until I received her text message just after New Years. All she said in her text was, 'Alex' would be at her house after all on the 30th. I did not know how she accomplished this. 

You are right, there is so much more to this story. 

Over the years, she has invited me to birthday parties, family gatherings, graduation and the holidays.

If I am able to make it, she is happy- and I do my best to make it. 

But life gets in the way and there are times I am unable to make it.

If I am not able to attend, she tells me I am going to disappoint her kids and threatens to keep them from me unless I attend - and goes as far as to say, "One day, you will have to explain to them why you missed '______' . 

She gave me an ultimatum and was extremely disrespectful to me when she didn't have to be. When I asked her for another day before responding with 100 percent certainty, she became indignant, and gave me the ultimatum. Then she blocked me on her phone and on facebook - how do I know this? I tried to call her and message her. She has probably blocked me at least a dozen times in the course of 11 years. It's ridiculous! 

I've never blocked her - not even once. 

It was never about picking her over my fiancee.

We had planned to go one way or another and I told her that on the phone a week before Christmas. 

Last Christmas, I went alone to spend Christmas with her. I won't even describe what that was like, but I did grit my teeth and stayed two days. She didn't disrespect me and was happy to see me I was happy to see how special she made Christmas for the kids. I saw things that disturbed me a little, but I won't go into that.

'Joe' enjoys making the trip up there with me and my daughter has expressed how happy she is that another male figure will be in Alex's life (my grandson). 

[Seraphim]

Well, your grandchildren are minors so the only way to see them is through their mother. So you decide if you want to see them and have a relationship. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Sweet Sue said:

Last Christmas, I went alone to spend Christmas with her. I won't even describe what that was like, but I did grit my teeth and stayed two days. 

Exactly. Joe was just the scapegoat in this scenario to get out of going there. You have several threads about your contentious relationship with your daughter. That's unfortunate but it's true the grandkids are under her supervision. 

[reinventmyself]

1 hour ago, Sweet Sue said:

Over the years, she has invited me to birthday parties, family gatherings, graduation and the holidays.

If I am able to make it, she is happy- and I do my best to make it. 

You never mentioned the distance.  How far away is she?

1 hour ago, Sweet Sue said:

But life gets in the way and there are times I am unable to make it.

of course, but you even make it sound like you don't go . . often.  The truth is - if you really wanted to see someone you will make it happen.

1 hour ago, Sweet Sue said:

she became indignant, and gave me the ultimatum. Then she blocked me on her phone and on facebook

But why does she do this?  From where I sit she seems awfully hurt. 

Again, I am not condoning her behavior, but hurt people hurt people.

From what you describe, you don't much enjoy going there anyway.  So, the hard feelings seem to run both ways.  

Looking at a bigger picture, what kind of relationship do you really want with your daughter and your grandchildren?

[catfeeder]

2 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

I didn't know she 'moved things around' for me until I received her text message just after New Years. All she said in her text was, 'Alex' would be at her house after all on the 30th. I did not know how she accomplished this. 

You are right, there is so much more to this story. 

Over the years, she has invited me to birthday parties, family gatherings, graduation and the holidays.

If I am able to make it, she is happy- and I do my best to make it. 

But life gets in the way and there are times I am unable to make it.

If I am not able to attend, she tells me I am going to disappoint her kids and threatens to keep them from me unless I attend - and goes as far as to say, "One day, you will have to explain to them why you missed '______' . 

She gave me an ultimatum and was extremely disrespectful to me when she didn't have to be. When I asked her for another day before responding with 100 percent certainty, she became indignant, and gave me the ultimatum. Then she blocked me on her phone and on facebook - how do I know this? I tried to call her and message her. She has probably blocked me at least a dozen times in the course of 11 years. It's ridiculous! 

I've never blocked her - not even once. 

It was never about picking her over my fiancee.

We had planned to go one way or another and I told her that on the phone a week before Christmas. 

Last Christmas, I went alone to spend Christmas with her. I won't even describe what that was like, but I did grit my teeth and stayed two days. She didn't disrespect me and was happy to see me I was happy to see how special she made Christmas for the kids. I saw things that disturbed me a little, but I won't go into that.

'Joe' enjoys making the trip up there with me and my daughter has expressed how happy she is that another male figure will be in Alex's life (my grandson). 

Sue, you sound completely tone deaf to what everyone here has been telling you.

Your call, but don't fool yourself about how 'sweet' that is.

[Sweet Sue]

Seraphim, I do want a relationship with them, despite the misgivings I have about their mother.

Wiseman, my fiancee was not the scapegoat. As I previously stated, we were already planning to go, either the 30th or the first weekend in January and she knew that. When I told her that I was pretty sure we could make it, she demanded I give her an answer that night. All I wanted to do was make sure he could still go- and he could! If he could not, I would have gone by myself like I did last year. A few hours is not going to make a difference and she knew that. There was no reason to get so upset with me on the phone like that - then to be blocked on both the phone and facebook. 

What do I mean by life happens? 

Yes, there are times when I have been unable to make the 3 1/2 hour drive to see her because of an illness. I have late stage lyme disease and if anyone has ever suffered with it, then you know how debilitating the symptoms can be. It causes brain fog, neuropathic pain, migraines, extreme muscle aches and much more. I am still receiving treatment and have made some progress. In the beginning I was practically bedridden. It was during that time that I was only to make it to a few parties- but by the grace of God. Her reaction was, "one day you will have to explain why you did not show up for Alex's birthday...." 

Then last year, both Joe and I attended her youngest daughter's birthday party. It was a lot of fun and was held at a picnic area. Some of my daughter's friends were present and were curious about meeting Joe. I thought everything went great! 

After we returned home, I phoned my daughter to thank her for inviting us. Her reply stunned me.

She said, "Joe drew more attention than 'Lorie's" party." I asked her what she meant by that, she said, "instead of focusing on "Lorie", everyone was more focused on Joe -they kept asking me questions about Joe instead of engaging with 'Lorie'. 

This summer I invited my grandson to spend a week with me. When I asked my daughter, she said no. I asked her why, and she said he has never been away from her that long. Then I suggested 3 days. Once again, she said no. I asked her why and she changed the subject. When I am on the phone with my grandson, his mom is listening in- and he's 12 years old. When they come here to visit, she doesn't let him out of her sight. If I take 'Alex' to the den to play a game of Jacks, she's watching the whole time. I have never had any alone time with him and that makes me wonder...why? 

[Sweet Sue]

Catfeeder- I get what everyone is telling me. I am well aware of how important a role grandparents play in the lives of their grandchildren. There is no misunderstanding there. They are my heart and I love them dearly. My personal struggle, Catfeeder is their mother. 

So, you're telling me, the next time my daughter invites me to any function involving my grandchildren and she yells, "you better be here or else you'll never see your grandchildren ever again!" that I should make the trip anyway? 

Would you do that? 

But where is HER accountability? 

 

[Tinydance]

I haven't read any more of your posts if you've made any others but I do remember your long post about "Joe". I obviously don't know much about this situation but to be honest it actually makes sense why your daughter might not like Joe. You said in your post about him that he's completely under the thumb of his mother-in-law and all his plans revolve around her and going to church with her. I did say in my reply that it's OK to help out an old relative but if he's doing it really constantly and only putting you second then that's not good.

I don't remember if you've mentioned it before but do you not drive? Like, if Jo isn't driving you, you don't have your own car/driver's license? What was the reason you couldn't go unless Jo was driving you? The thing is if you can't drive yourself then yes you are dependent on someone else's plans.

But I would suggest you think about whether Jo is really the right person for you and how he actually fits into your life and your family. Relationships are about give and take. If he expects you to always be OK with him doing everything for his mother-in-law then he also needs to step up for you when you have important plans. You obviously don't get to see your daughter and grandkids much because they're far away. And doesn't seem like they're willing to travel to you. So because it was for a special occasion and your daughter needed you to come then, Joe could have put "Carol" and church aside just that one time. Personally I think Joe let you down and in turn you let your family down.

Your daughter behaved immaturely and very over the top. However maybe she overreacted because she knows how Joe acts and she's sick of it. If you can actually drive then you don't need to always dance to Joe's fiddle and just do everything to suit him. Your grandson was probably really upset because he came home from hos father's just to see you but you didn't come. So your daughter cracked it. But blocking you and saying you'll never see your grandchildren again is immature and cruel.

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

Catfeeder- I get what everyone is telling me. I am well aware of how important a role grandparents play in the lives of their grandchildren. There is no misunderstanding there. They are my heart and I love them dearly. My personal struggle, Catfeeder is their mother. 

So, you're telling me, the next time my daughter invites me to any function involving my grandchildren and she yells, "you better be here or else you'll never see your grandchildren ever again!" that I should make the trip anyway? 

Would you do that? 

But where is HER accountability? 

 

Yes! Is it fair? No not at all. But you're basically threatening her too just indirectly making it a condition of you making the trip that you fiancee come too.  Where's your accountability? "No now I can't go because my partner can't drive me."  Huh?

You want fair or close -to your granchildren I mean?

[Seraphim]

The only people truly suffering in this exchange are the kids. 😓

[boltnrun]

8 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

But where is HER accountability? 

What does that have to do with your grandchildren? 

What's more important, sticking it to your daughter for "being rude" or spending time with your grandchildren?

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

 There was no reason to get so upset with me on the phone like that - then to be blocked on both the phone and facebook. 

Unfortunately you've been down this road many times before because of tumultuous relationship with your daughter.  Let the dust settle. 

[Starlight925]

10 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

So, you're telling me, the next time my daughter invites me to any function involving my grandchildren and she yells, "you better be here or else you'll never see your grandchildren ever again!" that I should make the trip anyway? 

Would you do that?

Yes, that's what we are ALL telling you.

Yes, spend as much time with your grandchildren as you can, regardless of what your daughter says.

They are only 5 once....then 6....then adults.

I've said this before, on this thread:  Don't cut your nose off to spite your face. 

I have no kids, but several nieces, and one great-nephew.  Two mothers of the group are super difficult, very much like your daughter.  Threats, "you'll never see Her or Him again", blah blah blah.

Guess how we all handled it?  We saw the kids anyway.  Those of us who wanted to engage with the children, did so.  

I'm so glad we did, as those who are now adults, I have a terrific relationship with.  

And spending time on the floor with my little 4 year old nephew, playing with his trucks, makes everything else melt away.

Don't let this eat at you.

[Seraphim]

I would have been happy to have grandparents being present . When I was 4 we moved 3000 miles from all family . My mother’s father died when I was 8 and her mom when I was 13. I miss them a lot and my grand-père died 49 years ago. They CARED so much for all their grandkids. My mother’s parents had me when I was a year old until I was two. My other grandparents didn’t give a crap about us and it was apparent and painful. 
 

This ISNT about you and your daughter this is about HURT children. My brother’s ex wife is a total b word and my mom said when it comes to seeing her grandchildren she would jump whatever hoops the ridiculous woman made because it is about her granddaughters not that woman . 

[reinventmyself]

11 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

make sure he could still go- and he could! If he could not, I would have gone by myself like I did last year.

So when asked, why didn't you just say yes in that moment, considering you would have been there either way?  Why tell her you would have to think about it and get back to her later?  Add in you would getting back to later for the sake of the bf, again. 

Saying yes would let her know she and her son are a priority.  Telling her you would get back to her later would make her feel dismissed.

She had to ask her sons Dad for a favor to have him on that day to benefit a visit with you and the moment she heard your hesitance, that would have been her breaking point.  Especially if this has been a pattern.

But you continue to be perplexed about why she's hurt and acts out.

[Sweet Sue]

To be clear, I did NOT need my Joe's permission to go up there.

We were already planning to go! 

I can't make that more abundantly clear.

Also, I was not made aware of that she even spoke to her ex-husband about asking to get 'Alex' for the 30th until New Year's Day.

All she said in a text message was that the 30th would work after all and that he would be with her for 6 hours -from noon until 6pm. I failed to ask her how this was accomplished.  I then told her that we would be there at noon and stay until 8pm and come back home. 

I was not trying to dismiss her, that was HER interpretation and I have no control over how she responds to my comment "We will be there from 12-8, I'm pretty sure we can make it, let me check with Joe". It was not about seeking Joe's permission, I like to confirm things with the person who will be doing the driving. It's common courtesy and I felt 99.9% sure we would be there on the 30th or the 7th.  Also, I told her that the first weekend in January would be better because he would be with her that entire weekend, allowing more time with him and my granddaughter as opposed to 6 hours. 

Reinvinventmyself- looking back, I really wish I had. Personally, that would not have bothered me in the least, if someone told me that, but then again, she does see 'things' very differently that I do and reacts harshly as well. 

Case and point: growing up, my daughter had a great relationship with my parents and we lived three hours away. She was also the only grandchild they ever had. Over the years, my parents were involved as much as they could. They were invited to birthday parties, her school functions, Grandparents Day, baptism, holidays and high school graduation- or simply visit on weekends.

Sometimes they would come and sometimes they wouldn't make the trip at all. Several of these were very important to us and their only excuse was that they just didn't feel like making the trip. I accepted this and moved on. I never put any kind of pressure on them or gave ultimatums. Instead, if my daughter asked me why, I would try to soften the blow with the hopes she would understand. 

More importantly, while they didn't always show up when we wanted them there, it never affected her love for them.  

Things are vastly different with her, as I have described in great length. I feel like she is trying to divide us. She has told me twice in one year, "Alex doesn't even care if you come up here -he doesn't care to see you!" Well, that won't stop me from visiting I can assure you of that! My efforts to rebuild and mend that fence have been in vain. 

But I am still working on it......

 

[Batya33]

Make it so you don’t need to confirm with a driver - and or have a backup way of getting there. I do that with almost every important plan if I possibly can. And it’s TMI because from your daughter’s perspective you were conditioning it on his availability. Was he going to wait in the car ?

[Starlight925]

1 hour ago, Sweet Sue said:

my comment "We will be there from 12-8, I'm pretty sure we can make it, let me check with Joe".

 

 

This, exactly:

45 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Make it so you don’t need to confirm with a driver - and or have a backup way of getting there. 

 

You can write 17 more paragraphs about the meaning of your messages to her, and her interpretation, but bottom line:

Just say "I'll be there at noon.  Looking so forward to spending time with you all!"

Period.  Less is more!

[boltnrun]

Your grandchildren don't know or care about all of this drama. They just wanted to see their grandmother and they didn't get to. 

[SooSad33]

18 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

If I am not able to attend, she tells me I am going to disappoint her kids and threatens to keep them from me unless I attend - and goes as far as to say, "One day, you will have to explain to them why you missed '______' . 

She gave me an ultimatum and was extremely disrespectful to me when she didn't have to be. When I asked her for another day before responding with 100 percent certainty, she became indignant, and gave me the ultimatum. Then she blocked me on her phone and on facebook - how do I know this? I tried to call her and message her. She has probably blocked me at least a dozen times in the course of 11 years. It's ridiculous! 

I do agree, it is ridiculous!  Never have I spoken to my parents this way .

That first paragraph is a form of a 'threat'.  - WHY is she so negative?  Is it her own past affecting her, to the point she is being so rude to her own mother? 😞 

Second paragraph, again, like a form of 'control', with a lot of negativity going on - anger like.  Blocking someone is childish, especially to a parent!

I feel there's a lot more going on, to where she has some kind of anger/resentment towards you.  

And this maybe needs to be dealt with from her end.. or yours. I'm not sure?  But, she does sound rather rude w/ outbursts towards you. 

If I were you, I'd be 'not bowing down to that behaviour'.  But EXPECTING a little more respect.

I do not know your backgrounds/ history, but there's problems for sure....  And you reached out here, for reasons.. right?  By sounds of it, things are now gaining on you in a negative and you're really hurting 😞 .

Take a deep look inside and see what's all been going on.  Maybe YOU need to look for some prof help - or suggest she does it.  This is not healthy for either of you .. and the grandkids.

 

 

[Sweet Sue]

SooSad33

I think you have a better grasp of this situation. 

You are right, there is a lot more than I could ever possible write about in this forum. I have had problems with her for most of her life. 

She was diagnosed with HDHD when she was eight years old. At ten, she was diagnosed with ODD-Oppositional Defiant Disorder. 

She was your typical strong-willed child. I read every book on the subject and took her to psychiatrists and therapists. I've been hit, slapped, kicked and punched. She has cussed me out and wished me death. I am not a perfect mother and never claim to have been, but I can honestly say, I have NEVER used the kind of vulgar language that my daughter uses on me when she is stressed out or angry. I have spanked her bottom- but only her bottom, when she was a child. 

Mental illness runs on her father's side of the family. His own family used to joke about how she was so much like 'them'. I didn't think it was funny. My ex-husband and I had very different parenting skills. I was more strict and disciplined, while he would rather look the other way at her misbehavior until it became too much for him- then he would buckle under her demands. He would not go to the therapy sessions, so I would go alone. 

The therapists knew I was being abused and would tell me to call the cops on her and I did. That costs me my marriage and he took her side. I was the one that she assaulted and he was comforting her when the cops showed up at the door. She was taken to a juvenile detention center and stayed the entire weekend. When she came home, she was a different person. It brought tears to my eyes. We hugged each other and she told me she would work hard at controlling her temper. She did try very hard but it wouldn't last. The divorce hit her hard. She wanted us to stay together. I think a little piece of her died that day. My ex-husband remarried 2 months later. That marriage would not last very long. Evidently she drove a wedge between her dad and his new wife and made life difficult for them. 

After high school, she started college and eventually married. Her father moved in with them, and helped with the bills. But there was always conflicts between them.

Moving this story along, she had her first child at 28 and four years later, she found herself in court trying to keep him. Apparently CPS was called on her for threatening her father's life with a knife (which was recorded on tape) and I could hear her screaming at him at the top of her lungs. I couldn't handle hearing all of this. I ran out of the courtroom in tears. I had no idea she was capable of such a thing - to try and murder her own father! 

She received a court order to attend anger management classes. Her attorney recommended her father attend anger management classes because of what he heard coming from him on the tape. 

She attended the classes as instructed, but I don't think it helped much. 

I have been in counseling for years. What I have been told by the therapists is to not tolerate any kind of disrespect. You don't reward bad behavior-  it only reinforces the negative behavior. 

I understand where they are coming from and I agree with them - for the most part.  Having a relationship with my grandchildren is of more importance to me than my daughter's disrespectful behavior. I just don't like her threats to keep them away from me unless I cave to every demand. 

I have boundaries and let her know what I will not tolerate - no disrespect. 

She is 40 and is a single mother of two children. She does not work and has not been gainfully employed since 2009. She graduated from college magna cum laude in 2019. She receives gov't assistance and I have been told by family members (her father's side) that she has no plans to work to support her children. Her father, who is an attorney, supports her children and is happy and contented to keep her at home with him and taking care of him as he is in poor health. 

I see her struggling as a single parent who receives only very little financial assistance from her ex-husband and nothing coming from the father of her little girl. This is very sad to me. She has very few friends and no social life. She sees her friends today- married and working hard at their careers. Maybe a little jealousy going on there.......I don't know. 

In one of my last text messages to her before I was blocked for the second time in two weeks, I told her that I love her and nothing would ever change that no matter what happens. I want us to be able to come together and try to work on our issues in a calm, peaceful and respectful manner. 

She did reply later to me that she liked that. 

I won't give up on her - she's my daughter and I honestly do care about her. I know that deep down inside she truly loves me and I have no doubt about it, despite what she says or does. 

And that's the short version! 🙂 

 

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

In one of my last text messages to her before I was blocked for the second time in two weeks, I told her that I love her and nothing would ever change that no matter what happens. I want us to be able to come together and try to work on our issues in a calm, peaceful and respectful manner. 

She did reply later to me that she liked that. 

You were blocked. IMO you blocked  yourself from seeing your grandchildren.  Obviously it's a given that this is a challenging situation. I think you're getting in your own way and if your priority is to see your grandchildren your actions IMO don't seem consistent with that priority.

[Seraphim]

I understand about raising a person with disabilities. Admittedly my son is not violent. Obviously, there is deep anger on both sides. However, THIS particular incident was about seeing your grandkids for Christmas. Not your history with your daughter. Christmas is now long over , so something to consider for next year . Keep in mind as grandkids become teenager they don’t want to spend time with “ uncool” parents and grandparents so your ability to see your grandson will be limited to the next few years if you are lucky . 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

. Her father, who is an attorney, supports her children and is happy and contented to keep her at home with him and taking care of him as he is in poor health.

It must be awkward seeing your grandkids if your ex is there. Just stay in touch with the children. Are they old enough to have their own phones?