Can't Get Anything Right

[TambienLluvia]

Or so it seems, with regard to dating lately. I know it's a numbers game, it's hit or miss, there's plenty of fish in the sea, blah blah blah bring on the cliches. They're not not true, I'm just saying. I do think the dating/mating market is a mess, or a total disaster at the current moment. I think it's gotten worse and worse with the advent of dating apps. I am super fascinated by intersexual dynamics and evolutionary psychology. I've studied a lot about this in recent years in an attempt to better understand not only myself but also women and the female dating/mating strategy. In a way, maybe it's only made things worse for me, I don't know. 

It'll be hard to make a simple post that's comprehensive enough to glean much from. Suffice it to say that I've had a lifetime of dating and relationship experience. I mean, since I was 15 to now in my 30s. I've had many, many girlfriends over the years. I've sort of experienced all the different styles and phases of things. Everything from the casual ONS encounters to full on multi-year long committed monogamous relationships. However, that seems to be dwindling. It's like I've reduced my success... after the Army, I had a 4yr relationship. Then a 1-2yr one. Then a 2-3yr one (lived with). Then it just became a series of 6 months here, 9 months there, almost a year there, nothing nada. 

There's just so much I'd have to write to give a whole complete picture of who I am, the type of women I have dated, why things ended, and what events in my life and circumstances have shaped my dating approach over the years. I do not like to play the victim or have any kind of "poor me, it's just bad out there" mentality. However, I think it's still fair and safe to say that the "game has changed", and/or the market is completely skewed towards the top. If you look at evolutionary psychologist or biologist types who study and research this stuff, it's incredibly insightful and fascinating. For example, the online dating market (apps) is overwhelmingly male. The ratio is something like 2 - 1 male to female. So, there's twice as many men as there are women. And women historically and naturally have been much more selective about who they choose to date or sleep with. Although that has loosened up quite a bit since the 60s, women naturally have always been the gatekeepers to this initial encounter whereas men usually are the ones who initiate the marriage type relationship. 

I digress. I don't know what it is about me, but I somehow turn people off or push people away and I don't know how or why. Most people don't like conflict or confrontation, especially women, so when a seemingly great date with a woman ends with her ghosting me, I never know what I said or did wrong. 

For example, was just recently talking to a girl who checked a lot of my boxes and was super into me, it seemed. I mean, we were talking almost all day every day across multiple methods i.e., sending videos back and forth + texting, you name it. Whatever, it was cool. Our conversations were wonderful and always filled with all these smiley emojis and great communication. This was all leading up to our first date a few days ago. 

Like, everything was flowing so well. Great vibes. I know what "low interest" from a woman looks like, and this was NOT it. She was absolutely displaying all the signs of high interest, and I reciprocated. She said how excited she was for the date, how she went out and got a new outfit and got her nails done and stuff. 

I went against the "just grab a drink or coffee" advice for a first date. We went to a decent sushi restaurant, and she loved it. We had an amazing time, great conversation at the sushi spot. I asked if she'd like to keep hanging out and she excitedly said yes. I did invite her back to my spot, but she said let's just stay public for the first date, which was totally fine. I know everyone is different, but sometimes girls jump all over that invite and happily come back to my place and we have a good time. So, it's not like that has never happened and is some weird left field question. I seriously liked this girl and had no intentions of anything "just casual" and had zero expectations of anything intimate taking place.

She said let's go grab more drinks at another nearby bar. OK cool, let's go! I paid for the entire meal, as usual. As we were leaving the sushi spot and began to walk, she's all on me like, "Let me lock arms with you or let's hold hands" and I thought that was so sweet and cute. We just went to a nearby spot and ordered more drinks. She previously asked me to bring this fun little "icebreaker" card game thing to our date, so I did. We had more drinks and amazing conversation. I thought she was really fully present and engaged in the conversation. I never felt for a second she was losing interest or was uncomfortable or anything. If she was, she put on a good show. We agreed to end the night. The $26 bill for drinks came and she said, "I got this", so I thought that was extra nice of her. 

I walked her to her car. Previously in the night we had discussed things like dating tempos, styles, communication frequency, all kinds of things like that. She said she was big on communication. I asked if I could kiss her and she said, "Yes of course" with a smile. Small kisses on the lips, then one for her neck and a quick hug and we parted ways for the evening. When I got home I called her to make sure she got home safe. No answer. I immediately felt a knot in my stomach. Something was wrong. The way we were conversing and communicating, there was no reason she'd not answer or at least text me something nicer than she did the next morning. 

I woke up to the cold, emotionless and non-emoji text of "Hey! Woke up to your phone call! I did get home safe passed right out." 

Right away the knot in my stomach got worse. Isn't it funny when you can tell when someone is upset or something because of their grammar? Their use of punctuation or periods where there never was any before? I pick up on stuff like that. And the lack of emojis or any kind of "feeling" to the text. What did I say or do wrong? What just happened? We were having such a good time. What the heck? Those were just thoughts in my head, but I didn't say anything. I just replied with the cute sort of style we had previously been using with one another, "Hope you slept well and didn't have any crazy dreams 😃"

And that was that. No reply from her. Nothing, nada. No social media contact. I knew she was going on a little hiking trip, so I didn't bother her one bit. I wake up this morning and check IG, I see she's unfollowed me. Didn't block me but removed any following. Again, what in the actual heck?! So, I finally reached out with a harmless sort of, "Hey, I'm confused, what did I do or say wrong?"

I understand woman are fickle as the saying goes. Can go from hot to cold in an instant. Can be confusing and expect men to just read their minds and "figure out" what they want or are trying to say. It's really frustrating. She said she valued communication, so I figured I'd at least hear SOMETHING. She did reply saying certain things made her feel uncomfortable and she will call me to explain later this evening. We'll see if that even happens. If it does, props to her for having the balls to at least tell me and to communicate it IRL via the phone. No one would ever do that anymore these days. I'm nervous but curious what exactly I did wrong. It's so hurtful and confusing to be having a great time with someone and then for them to just sort of cut you off, semi-ghost you and never understand why. I mean, I may have done everything right and she still just "didn't feel a connection" like I've heard before. OK that's fine, whether that's a lie or not, it's hard to tell. Some girls don't want to hurt your feelings, so they just say things like that and it's not actually the truth. 

She said, "I do value communication and boundaries. Sorry you felt ghosted that wasn't my intention, I was just separating.

I hear your side- I'll reach out later once I have time to share my side"

 

I can't wait to hear the latest critique on who I am as a person, and what I did or said that made her so uncomfortable. Maybe it was the kiss at the end of the night. Maybe it was the 3 drinks I ordered to her 1 at the second bar. Maybe it was something during our conversations. I don't know, my mind is running a million miles an hour trying to figure it out. It really sucks. And it's like, I've seen this movie before. At least some version or variation of this. I know I am a deep and passionate and sometimes "intense" person and maybe not for everyone, but I've had my share of girls fall in love with me before. I have had girls go way crazier for me sometimes than I am for them. LIke a full reversal of interest levels. So I know I'm not completely "unlikable" or something. It's not like I don't have friends or a social life or an ability to exist as a normal human being in this world. It's not like asking for a kiss at the end of a great first date is super weird or out of the question. I was trying to be a gentleman and at least ASK! Literally the LAST thing I ever want to do is to make a woman feel uncomfortable, ever. I can't stand it when I hear stories of things guys do on dates sometimes that creeps or grosses a chick out. I really try to steer clear of anything even remotely awkward. I try to match energy and intensity. If she's touchy feely, I reciprocate. If she's practically already on my lap and jumps at the suggestion to go back to my place or something, I reciprocate. I don't force anything. I try to let it all happen naturally. I know better than to try to pursue a woman who's not reciprocating or shows any indicators of high interest. And like I said, I've been on the receiving end of plenty of interactions of women who are very eager to be in my presence. 

 

I'm not going to blame the girl here, or women in general, or entirely lay the blame on me. I just have to say when you are someone who keeps having experiences like this, it's really frustrating and depressing. Honestly, it makes me really sad. Sometimes I've almost gotten to the point of tears. I feel them welling up in my eyes sometimes when I get these kinds of messages from girls. Like I said it pains me that I've done something wrong because I want so so so badly to make them feel comfortable and smile and happy and be excited to spend time with me. I've been successful plenty of times before, so I know the formula works. I'm not unattractive, I'm not a weirdo. I have my own place, a good job, a dog, friends and family, college education, hobbies/passions, do martial arts, drive a Porsche (not that it should matter), have goals/dreams for life, want a family someday, am socially adept and have high EQ. I don't do drugs or drink in excess. I don't get in trouble with the law. I take the lead, I plan the dates, I pay for everything, I don't act pushy or awkward. I match her energy. If I feel like a kiss, I ask permission. She could say no, and I'd respect that. I literally go out of my way to try and "do everything right". I have good hygiene, upkeep, fashion sense, good conversation skills, smell good, white teeth, full head of hair, good head on my shoulders, etc. 

Yet somehow I am doing something wrong. I guess we'll find out tonight what specific thing I did wrong for this most recent woman. I'm telling you ladies, it's hard to make you happy sometimes! I say this in jest, with a chuckle. I know it's a cliche, but it's true. Men are pretty simple to please. But you do 1 single tiny thing wrong or say something wrong during a first date and BOOM you're immediately disqualified and rejected in the woman's view. I get it ladies, you're picky and choosey and you should be. But come on, give a guy a chance sometimes. You probably discard and throw away so many good men just based on some tiny innocuous thing said or done that's perfectly normal for a dating atmosphere. No wonder there are so many single people, not getting married, and no one is having kids and the birth rate is declining. It's going to be a sad day when there's no one to take care of us in our old age. It's a real concern for society. I'm not saying we should all just "settle" for the next thing that comes our way, but let's all try to take a step back and maybe stop throwing away potentially good relationships without giving them so much as a second chance. 

We live in a "grass is always greener on the other side" dating world these days. And with the plethora of men for women to choose from online, of course they're even more picky. I recently found out that the majority of our human ancestry always comes from the female side. That means that an overwhelming majority of women throughout human history have reproduced, but not the men. I think it's something like 60% percent of women have reproduced but only 40% of men have. Like our human genealogy is predominantly female. That just means men have been slowly weeded out from the dating pool and evolution since the dawn of time. I just think that evolved mate preference behavior is on hyperactive overdrive these days. 

The dating market has become like the economy where the rich get richer. Like, the "haves and have nots" disparity is increasing. Men at the highest levels, the upper echelon, have their pick of the litter. Something like the top 10-20% of men have access to 80% of the women. Women tend to date and marry "across and up" the social hierarchy whereas men date and marry "across and down".

This dynamic is becoming more apparent and harder to ignore as we watch society suffer the consequences of alienating or isolating more and more men from the dating pool and access to potential female mates than ever before in human history. 

Rant over. I'm just sad and depressed. Rejection by a woman to a man is something I don't think women will ever truly understand. And that's OK. I think some psychology Ted talk explained it well, about how when a woman rejects a man, it cuts deep because that is indirectly telling us "You are not deemed worthy to reproduce with and your genes shall not carry on and see the light of the next generation".

[boltnrun]

I've been rejected plenty of times and I'm a woman.

I invite you to read the multitude of threads on this forum written by women who are having trouble finding a man who wants a relationship or even a date with them.

It's a myth that every single woman has dozens of men clamoring to date them. If that's true I wonder where they are.

And no, I am not getting communications from men and rejecting them because they aren't "across and up" or don't meet some unrealistic standard. And I have friends who are in the same boat, pretty, smart, fun women who haven't had a date in years and no, they are not rejecting. They just aren't getting asked.

It's happening both to men and to women. 

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, TambienLluvia said:

I did invite her back to my spot, but she said let's just stay public for the first date

She did reply saying certain things made her feel uncomfortable

Yes this is too intense and unfortunately puts you in the "just another guy looking for a hookup" basket. You can philosophize about the dating market, evolution, etc. But things are still the same as far as women being cautious about one night stands.

Err on the side of being more patient, paced and gentlemanly and  less "intense" and intimating.  Make yourself stand out from the crowd. Not by getting dinner but by slowing your roll so they can warm up to you better.

[boltnrun]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Yes this is too intense and unfortunately puts you in the "just another guy looking for a hookup" basket. You can philosophize about the dating market, evolution, etc. But things are still the same as far as women being cautious about one night stands.

Err on the side of being more patient, paced and gentlemanly and  less "intense" and intimating.  Make yourself stand out from the crowd. Not by getting dinner but by slowing your roll so they can warm up to you better.

I agree.

Plus referring to women as "girls" and "chicks", having multiple drinks, expecting she'd want to go back to your place on the first date just because other "girls" have been eager to sleep with you right away (which is what women think is expected because that's usually how it goes. Hopefully you didn't mention that you're used to other "girls" jumping all over your invite to go to your place.)

Or maybe it's none of that.  Maybe she met someone else while you two were doing all of that electronic communicating or an ex contacted her.  

I guess see what she has to say.  But don't take whatever she says to mean she speaks for all women.  Others might love your approach.

[gamon]

I see 3 potential areas of concern.

You said you don't drink in excess yet you said you had 3 drinks at that one bar, and it sounds like there was a lot more than that throughout the nite.

3 drinks is excessive for the ENTIRE night yet you see no problem with it.

As posted above inviting her back to your place on the first date makes you look like you're out for sex and nothing more, it cheapens and can even ruin the entire experience especially given the buildup.

The third area of concern is you see nothing wrong with the first 2 areas of concern, make me wonder what else is going on that you are completely unaware is unusual and offputting to the women you date.

I too have had a lifetime of dates and long and short term experience and have never, ever had a woman go ghost on me like you did.

I've had a few rejections, been broken up with a few times- usually it's the other way around, but in all cases, I'm not left wondering why. I'm not perfect and I get why I came up short. Pun not intended.

You may have some work to do on yourself.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, TambienLluvia said:

Previously in the night we had discussed things like dating tempos, styles, communication frequency, all kinds of things like that. She said she was big on communication. I asked if I could kiss her and she said, "Yes of course" with a smile. Small kisses on the lips, then one for her neck and a quick hug and we parted ways for the evening.

I mean for me this would be a big turn off and borrrrrinngg.  Were you on a date or interviewing someone to be a dating or life coach? Who isn't big on communication LOL.  Why focus on vague "dating tempos" and "styles" and instead talk about whether you want to share chocolate pudding for dessert, what was your first concert/show/live performance and what band do you most regret never seeing.  Or trade travel stories, travel dreams, what you think of places that sell pumpkin lattes in August.  Etc.

You seem uber focused while on a date on the project of dating and not on the person and uber self-absorbed with does she like me? please let her like me!!!  

I have several friends and family members who have gotten married in the past 9 years - two of my family members -one in her teens, one in her 20s, my  friend in her 30s remarried a guy she met through an online site after her divorce, my friend's son in his 20s married in the last 5 years, etc etc. 

I dated on and off from 1979-2005 and married in 2008 -we were 42.  I met men through online dating sites, social events, religious retreats, work, volunteer work, club med, through friends and work colleagues, etc.  I originally met my husband at work.  

Your date reminds me of a guy I met out of the 100 men I met through an online site.  We met for coffee -coffee lasted 3 hours -we had really Deep Talks mostly initiated by him - he was very into that sort of thing - analysis, big life questions etc.  It was interesting.  He walked me towards home and I was going to stop off at the grocery store to pick up a few things -he asked to join me and I made it clear that I was looking forward to seeing him again and I didn't shop on the first date (I felt that it was time to part ways for then -and I didn't really want him tagging along at the supermarket after 3 hours of talking).

I flirted, made my interest clear. He never called me.  I suspect that all those Deep Talks really didn't translate to a fun evening such that he wanted to see me again for dating purposes as opposed to all those deep topics.  I love going deep.  I love deep conversations - but three hours with a brand new person where it's that intense - it's a bit much.  I think you're a bit much and likely come across as self-absorbed and too much into Dating Theories as opposed to the individual person you're hanging out with.

On our second first date my future husband and I talked about: (we'd dated in the past so it was our second first date -except at the time we didn't really consider it a date!) - how silly it felt to get holiday cards only with photos of our friends kids and no personal note, fun anecdotes about his family members and friends and what they're up to, the fabulous chocolate pudding he insisted on sharing with me and the neighborhood he was living in for the summer which we both thought was really cool and interesting.  Sparks flew. 

It really can be that simple.  And I'm all into deep stuff and analysis and when it comes to our first date I love remembering that we talked about that and not analytical intense deep stuff.  That came later.  

 

[jul-els]

You’re moving fast and setting your expectations high. A recipe for disappointment, as you’re finding out. Slow down, keep your expectations low. You might be surprised. And if you’re not, it won’t be such a big deal.

[Kwothe28]

I am also overthinker. To the point nothing really surprises me anymore. Which is pretty good when it comes to bad stuff. When you already predicted "Armageddon scenario", even if it happens you are somewhat prepared. Doesnt mean you wont get hurt, but you "roll with the punches" at least. But its bad as you can ruin a good thing sometimes. As you always "overanalyze" certain situations. For example your analyzing of messages was on point now but could just mean she did just fall asleep and saw in the morning. 

Anyway, I would stop wondering "What I did wrong?". Not because there arent some stuff that you couldnt fix (yes, calling her to your place on first date sounds like you want a hookup even if you dont want just that), but because those reasons she would give you are sometimes so ridiculous that they would just leave you more confused. Half of the time they dont even have nothing to do with you. I was once on a date with the girl that I was sure she likes me. Like 100% sure. She didnt want anything to do with me then and even had the gal to bring her best friend along. Do you know the reason why she did that? Because few days before our date she made up things with her ex-boyfriend. But hey, apparently it was too much to just tell me that, even though I would understand the situation. So I had to find out after our date and not from her.

You are doing yourself a diservice with questioning. When they like you they are willing to overlook even big red flags. When they are on the fence, its "one strike and you are out". You dont know that girl. It could be anything. Also, somebody who "values communication" would not just delete you on Instagram. But could just tell you that she just didnt feel a connection between you and got it over. She is also full of BS. You seem like somebody who knows your worth. That is good. That would help you move on. And instead of questioning look at it through another perspective. You had a nice date. She didnt want second and didnt appreciate what you have to offer. Some other girl will. Leave it at that and no bad blood. You asking explenations from her would just lead to God knows where. No need to complicate stuff like that. 

[catfeeder]

Ugh! I'm so sorry, and you're right, this sucks.

Nobody comes away from rejection feeling fabulous, but those who over-invest really kill their own confidence.

There are reasons why it's not wise to bond through messaging prior to meeting (aka fantasy-building) or to turn a first meet into a full date, much less a marathon date.

It's not just about slowing your roll so you can quick-meet more people during the week, which minimizes the importance of any given outcome--so you won't scald your psyche and your wallet after every bad match--but also, you won't over-saturate any good matches you do meet.

Have you ever had a wonderful time with a friend or a small child, but the moment you leave them you're exhausted? That kind of exhaustion can make you less likely to want to be around that person again any time soon.

Over-investment rubs people raw. It might feel good at the moment, but then there's a scab and pain.

Pull back. Meet potential dates first before diving into a full date, which can come off as over-compensation and can scream, "I don't do this very much, so I'll treat this total stranger to a pricey dinner!"

I mean, if you do that, most women are going to enjoy themselves. It doesn't mean they'll want to do it again with you.

So whether the 3 drinks bothered your date or not, it's more likely that she sensed an over-familiarity, which you built from the messaging, and a premature investment that made her uncomfortable and made her not want to live up to it.

And this doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. You're probably just coming on a bit too strong.

Consider using apps to speed meet over coffee. Then everybody gets a breather and time to process. Either can invite the other to a full date after that. If the answer is yes, the other responds, but if not, no response is necessary.

...and nobody gets traumatized by rejections because they're not really rejections, they're just lack of pursuit, and onto the next.

Head high.

[DarkCh0c0]

8 hours ago, TambienLluvia said:

I did invite her back to my spot, but she said let's just stay public for the first date, which was totally fine.

Ouch... This is a red flag for so many women including myself. I'd probably stop seeing you too afterwards no matter how much I like you. Same for the drinks. If a man drinks too much in my presence on a first date, then he gives off some non-stable non-serious vibes ("does he always drink like that? Is he an alcoholic?"). The kiss could have not worked for her as well (the feeling/chemistry of it).

Listen, I get it. You chatted a lot and video called a lot. But, this online chatter makes you build a story or profile in your head about this stranger that is often not true. And now because of it, you are deceived that all of this build up didn't pan out (naturally so).

You want to take things slower next time. And, drop the negative mindset about dating and women!  Dates can feel it! Cause, I get it, you are tired and discouraged. You're blaming the market and some stats on why you can't find a date. But the answer is not out there. It's in yourself.

Have you gotten therapy before to help you reflect on the past relationships? Or, how about a dating/relationship coach? I'm sure they would be able to give you better feedback than most of us. Dating books can be helpful too.

As for your lady, who knows. Maybe if you get to clarify your intentions based on what she said, she might be swayed. But if it's a chemistry thing, that's life. Can't do much about it. If she doesn't show up, consider it a fun and done night.

[smackie9]

When I see long posts like that, as a woman I see you are more than intense, your vibe is just too much. You over analyze get too excited and start to expect things to launch 🚀 just because she is being attentive. 

Here’s a tip. The less desirable you are the more desired you will be. Pull back, be a little aloof, then tease flirt a little, then divert your attention, be relaxed. Combine that with spontaneity, being bold. You are right about “asking “ for a kiss it is a turn off. Also most mature women see it a red flag being ask to go to your place so soon. It’s not worth the risk so don’t take it. Another note, mass texting etc before the first date is a warning to slow your roll and don’t count that as dating  someone. Kool it on alcohol consumption one or two is fine for a whole evening….you are not in your twenties anymore. It’s different because of age, not dating apps IMO. If you want to be perceived as marriage material be that guy. 

[SooSad33]

20 hours ago, TambienLluvia said:

I digress. I don't know what it is about me, but I somehow turn people off or push people away and I don't know how or why. Most people don't like conflict or confrontation, especially women, so when a seemingly great date with a woman ends with her ghosting me, I never know what I said or did wrong. 

For example, was just recently talking to a girl who checked a lot of my boxes and was super into me, it seemed. I mean, we were talking almost all day every day across multiple methods i.e., sending videos back and forth + texting, you name it. Whatever, it was cool. Our conversations were wonderful and always filled with all these smiley emojis and great communication. This was all leading up to our first date a few days ago. 

 

IMO, it's all in the 'hype' of it all.  Is like you build up this excitement & anticipation, then when the day comes that you actually 'meet' for the first time, result could come across as lower than one expected... Something just didn't measure up.

Is not necessarily YOU.  She just didn't 'feel it'.  Is okay... We won't with everyone we meet.

 

20 hours ago, TambienLluvia said:

I have had girls go way crazier for me sometimes than I am for them.

Take this into account for example- reverse the roll.

 

20 hours ago, TambienLluvia said:

it's really frustrating and depressing. Honestly, it makes me really sad. Sometimes I've almost gotten to the point of tears. I feel them welling up in my eyes sometimes when I get these kinds of messages from girls. Like I said it pains me that I've done something wrong because I want so so so badly to make them feel comfortable and smile and happy and be excited to spend time with me. I've been successful plenty of times before, so I know the formula works.

Yes, because you are a sensitive soul..... As for this formula.  There is none, imo  😉 We're all different.. If it didn't work out, you have to accept that.

 

20 hours ago, TambienLluvia said:

Yet somehow I am doing something wrong. I guess we'll find out tonight what specific thing I did wrong for this most recent woman. I'm telling you ladies, it's hard to make you happy sometimes! I say this in jest, with a chuckle. I know it's a cliche, but it's true. Men are pretty simple to please.

Again- does not mean YOU did anything wrong.. And no, men have their own specifics as well... Some are 'easy' yeah.. and some are ignorant! ( goes both ways..).

 

20 hours ago, TambienLluvia said:

But you do 1 single tiny thing wrong or say something wrong during a first date and BOOM you're immediately disqualified and rejected in the woman's view. I get it ladies, you're picky and choosey and you should be. But come on, give a guy a chance sometimes. You probably discard and throw away so many good men just based on some tiny innocuous thing said or done that's perfectly normal for a dating atmosphere. No wonder there are so many single people, not getting married, and no one is having kids and the birth rate is declining. It's going to be a sad day when there's no one to take care of us in our old age. It's a real concern for society.

Yeah, society today.  The world is at our fingertips.... doesn't change our preferences.. AND this adds to the stressors of 'meeting & dating' - can be a whole mess!

And I repeat what I stated a the top of this:  She may just not have 'felt' a good vibe.  

 

20 hours ago, TambienLluvia said:

It's a real concern for society. I'm not saying we should all just "settle" for the next thing that comes our way, but let's all try to take a step back and maybe stop throwing away potentially good relationships without giving them so much as a second chance. 

I understand YOU are hurting.. But so much judgement & assumptions isn;t necessary.  You have NO idea what the other side has experienced in their life.

I was pretty okay in my 20's- 30's, but life threw me a few hardballs, which ended up causing major stress onto me 😕 .  I got to the point of needing therapy to work through a lot of it!

Yes, everyone's life is different, so no one can pass judgement.  As you really don't know!

Wouldn't it be awesome to just come across some decent local lady who IS all into you naturally?  No online dating crap....

OR, is it just time to lay back & breathe for a while, on your own?  No dating, no expectations?  Have you been single a while ( w/o searching)?

 

[Tinydance]

I actually don't think you necessarily did anything wrong. You said on your date with this woman you'd been having a few drinks at a few places. I'm not saying you were blind drunk but maybe you were both tipsy? Obviously you liked this woman and you really wanted her to like you too. Maybe due to the alcohol you thought it was going a lot better than it really was. Or maybe because your date was drinking she acted happier and more into it. In reality maybe she actually wasn't really feeling the chemistry romantically. Maybe she was still enjoying your conversation and the food and drinks. It doesn't mean she thought there was anything bad about you. In most of my dating experience I didn't think there was anything particularly wrong with the person but I just "wasn't feeling it".

My experience with dating wasn't always that great either. It's true on dating apps I got a fair few messages but when I actually went on the dates it was very 50/50. Half the time I got rejected and sometimes the people were actually rude.

I don't put fake, enhanced, or old pictures on my profile. I went for a walk with one guy and we only walked about an hour or less. I was trying to be really friendly but he actually began taking out his phone and kept looking at the time. I said if he needed to go it was no problem. He basically lied that he wasn't feeling well and also that he was going to move back to his home country. I said OK no problem. I said nice to meet you.

I thought that was it but after I left he called me. I thought it was just a butt dial so I ignored it. The next day I actually got a text from him. He said something like: "I hope you're OK that I wasn't interested. Honestly I didn't feel well and I'm upset about COVID". Something along those lines. It's like, dude, you already rejected me to my face but then you also call and text me to reject me AGAIN. This is considering I just smiled and said no problem and good to meet you, all the best. ***!!

One thing I did find off putting though is when guys straight away asked me to go to their place the first time we met. It does actually come across like you only want sex so I think it's probably best not to do that. I don't think just talking online really counts as meeting and meeting in person is the first time you actually met.

If you've had long term relationships before like 4 years, 3 years, I don't think there's anything wrong with you. 3 - 4 years is a long time and someone liked you enough that they wanted to spend those years with you. Even being with someone 9 months is still not short.

If you're finding online dating draining and disheartening then maybe you should try meeting women in real life. You could go to singles Meetup groups where you're not actually on a date. You can take the pressure off yourself and just meet different people and enjoy the activities. You could join all sorts of groups or classes really. Or you could go out with friends to different events and try to meet their friends as well.

There is a lot of rejection in dating and in particular online dating. Although I wouldn't necessarily call that rejection because you're meeting complete strangers. You both don't know each other so it's not really rejection just to see how everything goes. Attraction and connection can't be forced and it's probably just realising that the romantic spark is just not there. Like what are the chances you'll completely match a total stranger or they you? The chances are not impossible but they're kinda small.

Also I think you're acting a bit over the top with wanting to know what you did "wrong". I don't think she also owes you to explain what you supposedly did. Though she probably should have messaged you and let you know that she wasn't interested as a courtesy. I actually found it a bit off putting if after a date a guy asked what he did wrong. Because in most cases they didn't do anything but I just wasn't physically attracted to them or I just didn't feel anything. It made me feel awkward and I didn't know what to say. 

Also you need to remember that what is "wrong" to one person is not wrong to another. That's why compatibility in a relationship is important. Even if someone thought there was something "wrong" it may just be a personal preference and that's all. 

For example, my best friend is shy, quiet and introverted. She doesn't get along with other people who are the same and prefers people who are outgoing and talkative. Everyone she had relationships with were social and talkative and so are all her friends. Sometimes she'd reject guys because she said they're "too quiet". Whereas I actually don't have a problem if someone is a bit quiet because I'm really talkative. If the person is more quiet then I end up dominating the conversation and I actually like it lol I love that I get to talk and they're just listening.

Being quiet for example doesn't mean the person is bad or has nothing going for them. In fact they might be a good catch. They just don't have a loud, booming personality.

 

[Wiseman2]

On 10/1/2022 at 5:26 PM, TambienLluvia said:

 we were talking almost all day every day across multiple methods i.e., sending videos back and forth + texting, you name it. 

 I did invite her back to my spot, but she said let's just stay public for the first date, 

Actually there were only two mistakes here.

One: trying to build rapport with texting all day everyday for too long before meeting.

Two:  asking her to come to your place on the first meet.

If you correct these two factors you may do better.

After exchanging a few messages, invite them for a brief coffee/drink. Yes. Meet ASAP. And Yes. Keep the first meeting brief. 

Do not try to build a relationship through texting or everything all at once on a first meet dragging out for hours.

End the meeting with asking them out again...or not. But remember... texting is not dating and first meets shouldn't be marathons.

[Coily]

First of all I hear you, dating right now is pretty bad, well okay it's a raging dumpster fire.

That said, you need to consider your behaviors in dating, and consider if you were on a date with you what could be off putting? As others have pointed out, asking her back to your place; probably isn't who you are wanting to develop a long term relationship with.

It all comes back to put out what you want to attract, but make sure there is room to breathe and grow; not a one track existence. It's is increasingly harder as you get older to find someone who wants to grow a relationship, and while normal it's makes it dang hard.

Other than "stop thinking about it" when it comes to your date, that's the best advice i can give.

[Cherylyn]

Don't pay attention to what you've studied whether it's on the Internet or books because it doesn't always apply.  Often times, the information you've learned is too generalized.

Men don't always initiate the marriage type relationship.  Often times women will let the man know  she won't waste her time on a relationship without a committed future.  If she doesn't tell the man,  then often times they'll discuss what their future goals are in the relationship and they're on the same page. 

If you sense that you somehow turn people off,  do self examination to figure out how you can improve your personality and character.  I agree, most people do not want conflict or confrontation but most people are open to having a lucid conversation with you preferably in person or phone call. 

Unfortunately, something gets lost in translation with texts,  reading too much into it if it lacks emojis and it can be perceived as curt.  This is why in person is best and second best is a phone call with a real human voice, not voicemail nor playing tag.

You move too fast.  You need to pump the brakes.  

Don't go against meeting for coffee for the first date.  Get acquainted first so the woman can pick up either good or not so good vibes from you.  Take it slow. 

For you, I'm glad the sushi restaurant went well.  She was excited to hang out with you UNTIL you invited her back to your home.  At this point, you are perceived as too eager to jump in the sack with her.  Most women don't like that vibe.  Most women are wary and don't wish to risk placing themselves in a vulnerable situation in a strange place with a man whom she doesn't know well.  Think about it.  As a woman, we often think of date rape.  You need to put yourself in a woman's shoes.  Granted, I'm not implying that you would commit date rape.  I'm just telling you that you demonstrate yourself as a red flag to a woman.  She thinks you are a risk for her and no woman in her right mind continues dating a man who gives her bad intuition.  She is listening to her gut instincts.  Most women prefer to play it safe and prefer zero risk.   It's better for you to err on the side of caution despite your experience regarding enthusiastic women.  You say you had zero expectations.  Well, she didn't like your offer and she didn't want to take risks regarding any expectations whether you had them or not.  No way.  She found you disrespectful and you scared her off. 

You need to take a long time cultivating, nurturing and maintaining a rapport with a woman.  Slow down! 

Perhaps drinks loosened her inhibitions and she locked arms and held hands with you.  Don't get too excited.

Don't ask to kiss.  Again, move slower.  Get to know a woman first before getting physical.  Both of you need to learn each others personality and character. 

It was good that you texted regarding her safety after she came home.  Not everyone replies.  Perhaps the liquor made her drowsy and she went to sleep so she didn't reply to you immediately which was her actual reason.

Don't read into someone's grammar and punctuation.  Some people are fast at texting and then hit send.  Don't care about emojis.  Not everyone partakes in emojis.  Your text:  "Hope you slept well and didn't have any crazy dreams" sounded dumb.  You should've written this instead:  "I'm glad you came home safely.  Thank you for a pleasant evening.  Take care."  Be gracious and kind; not goofy and weird otherwise you're a turnoff.   It's no wonder she ghosted and unfollowed you.  Behave yourself.

She told you that you made her feel uncomfortable and she'll explain it to you later this evening or at her convenience.  In the meantime, don't bother her.  Either she'll take the time to explain it to you or she'll move on.

On a date, act like a gentleman.  Don't talk too much.  Later, don't text too much, don't say or write anything strange.  Always exercise discretion.

During the date,  be genuinely curious about the woman, ask her questions about her and always be gracious without prying too much.  Remain respectful always!  Let her carry the flow of the conversation.  Insert some occasional wit or an intelligent sense of humor but don't over do it.  Women will feel a connection if you make them feel comfortable and safe with you.  Don't make women feel nervous.

It takes a long time to build trust.  Yes, communication is important but do it with skill and grace.  Don't be over zealous because it's unnatural and you'll scare women away.  They need to perceive your self confidence without being cocky.  Be humble.  Exercise respectful boundaries. 

Blame is good because it teaches you to readjust or reprogram yourself so you make yourself appealing and attractive.  Also, not every woman is a good match.  I know it's sad and frustrating but it's not the end of the world.  Keep trying.  Keep trying to be a better person.  Back off.  Be nice without over doing it and if you're unsure, do, say and write (text) less!  Don't be perceived as desperate.

You have a good background.  If you feel like a kiss, wait.  Don't be so eager for a kiss.  Doing everything right means don't do anything wrong.  Watch your behavior.  Act like a supreme gentleman but don't be fake.  Be sincere.  Exercise self control.  Be self confident without being cocky.  Remember to be very humble and modest.  Don't rush into anything. 

It's not hard to make ladies happy.  I've been married for a long time.  We have two sons.  My husband and I live a very established life in the suburbs. 

Use common sense when it comes to ladies.  Have class.  Show class and everything will work out for you. 

Owning a house and raising children is becoming more expensive.  Not everyone can afford it.  (We have zero debts, btw.)  It's not for everyone.

Men reject women who aren't for them.  Women do the same.  It works both ways. 

A second chance is too much work.  Often times women don't want to teach men how to behave properly.  That's your job.  If you can't get it right,  practice until you get it right.  Have very good manners and you will improve.  Change your attitude and behavior. 

When my husband and I were dating, we were in the upwardly mobile set.  We both work hard.  In my case, I married up.  He earns a higher income than mine.  I supplement my husband's income.  We do well together.  We're very comfortable.

I'm sorry about your rejection.  However, all is not a lost cause.  You can still improve your lot in life.  It's not completely abysmal for you.  Be a better person and you will see.  You will have positive results.  Stop trying so hard.  Back off and allow the date to flow on its own without over doing it with your behavior and attitude.  Also, ease up on texts.  Keep it nice and BRIEF.  Don't be cutesie with emojis.  Don't stress.

Women have been rejected, too.  It cuts deep for them as well.  Men have told women they're not worthy or more cruel words than that.  You don't know the half of it.

Improve yourself and it will be a new day.

 

 

[tattoobunnie]

On 10/1/2022 at 5:26 PM, TambienLluvia said:

...Rejection by a woman to a man is something I don't think women will ever truly understand.

Um, welcome to the club.  Rejection is rejection...did you honestly think the movie Fatal Attraction isn't based on actual scenarios?  

On 10/1/2022 at 5:26 PM, TambienLluvia said:

it's a numbers game

Yup.  That's it.  You can be sad about it all you want, but it only takes one to make it right.  You are the common denominator in why they didn't work out.  Not saying you are always being something wrong, but they just weren't the right fit.  Trust me...I didn't get that honestly till I was 31.  So hang in there.  Chin up; You may think this is a blow-off statement, but one day you will, and you will realize how relevant that statement is.

[catfeeder]

21 hours ago, tattoobunnie said:

ou can be sad about it all you want, but it only takes one to make it right.  You are the common denominator in why they didn't work out.  Not saying you are always being something wrong, but they just weren't the right fit.  Trust me...I didn't get that honestly till I was 31.  So hang in there.  Chin up; You may think this is a blow-off statement, but one day you will, and you will realize how relevant that statement is.

Really good point. Reframe rejection as "The limits of another's ability to view you through the right lens." ...or as trying to connect two puzzle pieces that don't fit. You can see that both are equally valid--they just don't belong together.

It's a level playing field. We each have unique value, so the dating 'game' is to keep trying out matches until you find the right fit. 

If you use every wrong match to sink yourself into an emotional hole, you're missing the point, and you're doing the opposite of building resilience as a life skill. The goal is NOT to tap-dance for the masses like you're selling a product. The goal is to relax into Who You Are, and when you strike simpatico with a person who owns the right lens to appreciate you, you'll thank yourself for being you.

[Cherylyn]

There's always room for improvement.  I've always looked at failures as harsh lessons learned and wisdom gained.  I've learned to improve myself by working on interpersonal skills and dynamics.  Or, if I perceive certain personalities and characters not meshing with mine,  I no longer put forth the effort to merely rely only on hope and prayers for unreasonably hopeless and senseless relationships. 

Think long and hard first.  Then put your new habits into practice.  Usually, women will respond positively if you exercise self control,  err on the side of caution,  remain well mannered,  humble,  modest,  POISED,  very respectful,  kind  and considerate.  Be careful with what you say,  never interrupt,  think before you act and be careful with what you write (for example,  text).  It's not that difficult.  Never be perceived as odd,  strange or weird because it is looked upon with disdain. 

 

 

[LikeWater]

On 10/1/2022 at 4:58 PM, gamon said:

I see 3 potential areas of concern.

You said you don't drink in excess yet you said you had 3 drinks at that one bar, and it sounds like there was a lot more than that throughout the nite.

3 drinks is excessive for the ENTIRE night yet you see no problem with it.

As posted above inviting her back to your place on the first date makes you look like you're out for sex and nothing more, it cheapens and can even ruin the entire experience especially given the buildup.

The third area of concern is you see nothing wrong with the first 2 areas of concern, make me wonder what else is going on that you are completely unaware is unusual and offputting to the women you date.

I too have had a lifetime of dates and long and short term experience and have never, ever had a woman go ghost on me like you did.

I've had a few rejections, been broken up with a few times- usually it's the other way around, but in all cases, I'm not left wondering why. I'm not perfect and I get why I came up short. Pun not intended.

You may have some work to do on yourself.

I've never heard of a single person, AT A BAR, thinking 3 drinks is too many.  You gotta be just anti-alcohol to possibly think that, but why are you at a bar, then?

3 drinks would barely even be 'pre-gaming' to most people.

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, LikeWater said:

I've never heard of a single person, AT A BAR, thinking 3 drinks is too many.  You gotta be just anti-alcohol to possibly think that, but why are you at a bar, then?

3 drinks would barely even be 'pre-gaming' to most people.

I've never finished one.  I've felt buzzed/tipsy from half a beer.  I am not anti-alcohol.  I'm pro not getting drunk for myself and pro other people not getting drunk if they're going to drive.  Doesn't make me anti-alcohol.  I used to enjoy wine tastings and my half glass of wine with a meal.  I think 3 drinks is too many for someone like me and many people like me.  I've been to countless bars and clubs and consumed no alcohol.  I wasn't there to consume alcohol.

[LikeWater]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I've never finished one.  I've felt buzzed/tipsy from half a beer.  I am not anti-alcohol.  I'm pro not getting drunk for myself and pro other people not getting drunk if they're going to drive.  Doesn't make me anti-alcohol.  I used to enjoy wine tastings and my half glass of wine with a meal.  I think 3 drinks is too many for someone like me and many people like me.

I don't know where you're from, Batya, but here it's legal to drive with two drinks in you.  I understand some people are way more prone to alcohol's effects, and admittedly I've always had a higher than usual tolerance, but calling 3 drinks too much when you're at a place made to drink is pretty absurd to me.  Just my opinion.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, LikeWater said:

I don't know where you're from, Batya, but here it's legal to drive with two drinks in you.  I understand some people are way more prone to alcohol's effects, and admittedly I've always had a higher than usual tolerance, but calling 3 drinks too much when you're at a place made to drink is pretty absurd to me.  Just my opinion.

Here it's legal to drive at a certain alcohol level not number of drinks.  I would not be able to drive if I had one drink.  Or possibly less depending on what was in it.  To me a bar is not a place made to drink.  It's a place to meet people just like a restaurant or cafe or ice cream place.  I have ordered wine or beer at a bar, and also at a restaurant.  I went to bars when I was pregnant and when I was at work events and had a non alcoholic drink that looked like a drink.  I've never once gone to a bar with the purpose of drinking alcohol.  And I've been to many bars including dive bars, famous bars, bars all over the world.  

[boltnrun]

It's not the number of drinks but your blood alcohol level in the US. And what if one person drinks two beers and the other drinks two shots of 100 proof tequila? That's still two drinks, right? And what if the first person is 6'3" and 200 pounds and the other is 5'5" and 140 pounds? The second person is going to have a much higher blood alcohol level than the first. BTW, I am legally intoxicated after 1 1/2 drinks since I am relatively petite. 

And I do like bars and I seldom drink three drinks in one visit. I will nurse a beer or two. I like the atmosphere and company. I'm not there to get sloshed. And I'm not interested in having to leave my car behind and having to call for a ride because I've had too much to drink to be able to drive safely. And I surely don't want to hurt or kill innocent people because I drove drunk.

I don't know if the OP was intoxicated, but three drinks to his date's one is excessive IMO. I think on a date, especially a first date, one should match their date's drink consumption unless the date is getting plowed. And in that case I'd excuse myself and get a Lyft home.

[LikeWater]

50 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

It's not the number of drinks but your blood alcohol level in the US. And what if one person drinks two beers and the other drinks two shots of 100 proof tequila? That's still two drinks, right? And what if the first person is 6'3" and 200 pounds and the other is 5'5" and 140 pounds? The second person is going to have a much higher blood alcohol level than the first. BTW, I am legally intoxicated after 1 1/2 drinks since I am relatively petite. 

And I do like bars and I seldom drink three drinks in one visit. I will nurse a beer or two. I like the atmosphere and company. I'm not there to get sloshed. And I'm not interested in having to leave my car behind and having to call for a ride because I've had too much to drink to be able to drive safely. And I surely don't want to hurt or kill innocent people because I drove drunk.

I don't know if the OP was intoxicated, but three drinks to his date's one is excessive IMO. I think on a date, especially a first date, one should match their date's drink consumption unless the date is getting plowed. And in that case I'd excuse myself and get a Lyft home.

Yeah I used 2 drinks in sort of the general term where 1 beer = 1 glass of wine = 1 shot of hard liquor.  Probably not my best wording because even a beer can vary wildly in alcohol content, but yes, I was talking about the same thing.

Maybe it's the Irish in me, but to me 3 drinks is nothing.  I think europeans would probably agree.  But I'd also be interested in hearing from men in general.