Mr. Brightside

Why do people who cheat stay? The emotional ride is going so fast it feels like if you were to jump off, you would die. Seriously. When I was cheated on, my whole world blew up. It is kind of like a mental basic training. I was completely broken down. All my beliefs in humanity, religion, politics, etc had to be redeveloped and my life carefully placed back together without the unfit puzzle pieces. I've worked in various law enforcement positions (still do in fact) and have seen the nicest folks do the most nefarious of deeds. In a way, the whole experience (along with my work experience) opened my eyes from the ignorant and naive world I was taught to believe in. Could it be...? The excitement of loss that you "could" experience should you do one little thing wrong... then they go back to the other guy/woman? The thought that "we can build back up what we've lost?" Could it be as simple as a gambling addiction with sex, text messaging, e-mails and secret meetings as the "poker chips?" What a dangerous game of life we play. Trust your instincts, NOT your imagination (and learn the distinction well). Take care of yourself and subscribe to the religion of "enjoying life."

Heh... this reminds me of the book 1984. You choose your mates and kids via technological means. I think where the real fun is wading through the bad ones to finally get to the good one at the top. It's not about the destination, it's about the trip. Even though many people complain about dating etc, I think if it were this easy, it may have the opposite effect it was intended for. People might not realize how good they really have it, not having gone through bad experiences while dating losers. But I'm into the anthropological side of humanity as well so I am a little biased.

I agree... if there is even a chance that cheating occurred, she has put you in physical danger (regardless of the emotional trauma you must endure). Snooping is OK in my book as long as it isn't "looking for problems." If there is a reason (i.e. your gut is telling you something isn't right) then I think it is justified. I will admit I looked at my SO's diary AFTER communication with her ex started and was getting steamy. I needed to know exactly how far things had went to keep myself sane. She would only divulge what I could find out for myself. Cheaters tend to do that and justify it to themselves that they do not want to hurt the person they are cheating on. However, the people that are being cheated on actually hurt MUCH WORSE with having to pull information out like needles in a haystack. I would NOT tell her. You don't owe her a thing!!! You found out what you needed to know because SHE LIED TO YOU BY NOT TELLING YOU. There is your justification. You've just saved yourself months of investigation and heartache by reading the source rather than pulling information out of her. Kick the relationship to the curb where it should be. Move on and get someone that truly cares about you. Good idea on giving the keys to the parents and getting out. Trust me... from someone who went through a VERY similar circumstance... Just tell her you've decided it's a no-go and have a good life. You don't need to justify yourself to someone else, especially if they have lied to you about something so horrendous.

Well, you could have sex, then when she asks if you are a virgin, you say no. You aren't lying not that she would phrase it that way anyhow haha

Wow, sensitive aren't we? Here is your approval: Thank you for your post. To the OP: Since it isn't a big event on your end, there is no reason to tell her and put yourself in a position where you look like you have emotional or religious baggage that you otherwise don't have as it pertains to your virginity. If she asks, tell her. If she doesn't, it's a need to know basis. Don't lie and say you aren't a virgin. Just tell her if she asks. People don't always go into exactly how many partners they've had in the past. If it's a big deal to her, she'll ask. If not, it doesn't really matter unless it really matters to you, which it doesn't sound like it does. Telling her CAN bring negative consequences in that she will think it's a big deal to you (when it isn't) which can lead to her going numerous ways in her thinking (i.e. insecurity that she won't live up to the glorious experience, etc).

I think since sex seems to be the most powerful "physical" bond we can give to another human being. Thus, we link it with the most powerful "emotional" bond, love. Now say your goal in life isn't to focus on having as many relationships/sex/babies as possible (perhaps it was back in ancient times), then your priorities will be aimed more toward "building" a home, family, etc. Obviously, it is much easier to achieve this on more than one income, especially with all of the prices and competition in today's world. So you make a sort of pact with another human being to do this (hoping they have your same interests in life at heart). So we solidify our pact with marriage, sex and the concept of love. The reason I went through all of that is because if you cannot rely on a person's fidelity and "love" in a partnership in life, I don't believe there is anything else more powerful to hold two people together psychologically. If your partner gives up their sexual fidelity with another human being, what do you have left that only you two share together? Why does it matter? Once that action has taken place, the whole structure comes tumbling down and the victim becomes paranoid. They begin to wonder: Do I want to share my assets, goals, children, etc with someone I cannot exclusively link myself with? They are paranoid because if this person can cheat on them sexually, they can easily take anything else from their part of the bond with them and take off. I guess the best way I can answer this is sex and love are the only true ways we (in our freedom based society) are able to ensure a psychological contract or bond. If that is broken, I don't think bowling is going to be an adequate supplement. However if your goals aren't the norm, and you want to do the temporary thing until your demise, then this concept doesn't mean much. As well it shouldn't. A society that is based on building itself to be better than other societies and nations must have some sort of fundamental fidelity between the sexes as it's base. Otherwise you will never get past the anarchy, wild rover stage. Those that care about a society their offspring are going to live in will care about the foundation of fidelity.

Sorry man, I don't think you can trust her. Everything you confront her with is minimalized, which is a sign that things aren't very minimal. Trust me, I've gone through this exact same thing (minimalization). When you confronted her with the evidence of the one time, of course she says it only happened once. This is until you find other evidence in the future. And yet, as you continue to wade through the web of lies, she just gets better at making the web thicker. She is telling you just enough to get you off her back, yet keep you in her life as a side mate. The mere fact that she didn't go all the way because "she was on her period"... not because she has a loving and faithful husband at home?!? Red flags should be flying just for this! I don't see any of her actions reduced because you, her husband, feels bad about it. IF its true they didn't have sex, she pretty much just told you she would have if it was physically possible. Her pushing counseling now is just a front for keeping you in her life while she continues to bang the other guy. She even told you she is still confused! Someone who was serious about fixing things and counseling would drop the adulterous acts and focus on fixing things. I reiterate... DO NOT go through with this... the only counseling that should be had is bringing the kids in to hopefully minimize the trauma of divorce (not to be confused with the WORSE kind of trauma of staying in an unhealthy marriage. Your kids do not deserve this type of behavior from one of their parents). Follow the investigative instructions given by Scotcha earlier in this thread and move on with your life.

and her care for the children...

Awesome advice. Please consider this Runin4now.

Sorry to hear that people are going through similar experiences that I am, however it is good that we all have a place we can relate stories and help one another. I know how hard it is when you are IN the situation, especially if you have children to worry about. Your kids are young and because of this I think you SHOULD leave her. No, no, listen to me now. I am from a divorced home, luckily my parents separated BEFORE I was able to understand what was going on between them. Trust me, the faster you get out, the less your children will have to see of the disgusting aspects because this WILL NEVER GO AWAY. It is hard enough to have to heal from the deception of all of this, but trying to raise your children and deal with this problem... it comes to a point where you need to look out for your children. Do whatever you can to get custody, i.e. save any evidence that you can of the affair and anything else you can to show that she is emotionally unstable for having children in her house. I would say that strange men that are NOT her husband is proof enough, but judges these days aren't quite as thoughtful in that arena. My family is a perfect example. I was 3 when my parents separated for similar issues. I was fine because I grew up knowing that my mom and dad will not be together. If you attempt to stay together and this happens again (which is way above a 50% probability) then your children will have had more experience of you two together, thus they will be more traumatized when you split later on. My cousins had their parent's split when they were in their teens and they turned out MUCH WORSE than I have. They tried counseling for a couple years as well. I am in graduate school and they are in and out of jail constantly. Get out, work on raising your children in a stable home, even if she gets custody. You primary duties are to try to show your children what proper behavior is, which your wife is clearly not demonstrating. If you stay, you are telling your children that this behavior is OK. You need to understand that you have TRIED to get her to work on things and she is obviously bringing you through the grinder with each step. She scoffed at the idea of counseling UNTIL YOU CAUGHT HER cheating on you! She sent you out of YOUR OWN HOUSE so she could bring the guy over and have sex with him in YOUR BED! Now she is so remorseful. Get real. She is remorseful because she was caught, not because she is willing to get rid of the other guy. She will go back once she feels she has her power in the relationship back. Sorry to be a bad news bearer, but from someone in a similar situation as yours (you can read my past posts and how I have been a doormat myself) this situation has a very low probability of fixing itself. Your time and energy should be placed in 1. getting your children out of that situation, if only for weekends, 2. Finding a woman who wants to have a stable home and focus her energy on more productive things in a relationship than promiscuity. You've done what you can. Now do what you must. I was in a 4 year relationship (engaged to be married). It's going to hurt like hell for a little while, trust me, but you can do it. It's like working out. The first month sucks because you are sore and hurting but after you feel much better than if you would have stayed in the previous passive state. Keep reminding yourself of her bad behaviors to keep yourself focused. I'm here to talk, so PM me if you want and I can tell you some of my experiences in addition to the ones I posted earlier in this forum. Good luck man, I'll be praying for you and your children. Nick

I am in that situation and it is amazing just thinking how I could be so blind for so long. Letting myself wallow in the deceit she provided. This should never be an issue in a relationship, because if you allow it to pass, the only way it can go is worse. Cheating is a way of displaying immaturity as an adult. She will continue to only tell you as much as needed to get you off her back so that she can keep her cake (you) and eat it too (him). Trust me, it took plenty of rational people on here to show me that it was not going to work out after all...

I think you need to be extra careful here because you are running into the part of your healing process where you want to tell others what happened so they can lend an emotional hand. I think you know where to draw the line... just don't let yourself cross no matter what. Put the line above your emotions, but you know that you need to express the hurt to someone who is understanding. As you know, I am going through something sort of similar. But I just know that letting myself go farther than I should would make me feel sicker than I already do. It's tough, I don't really have any clear cut answers for you because I know how hard it is and that there ARE NO clear cut answers. No way to proceed without nasty wounds. But if you keep true to yourself, the wounds will heal eventually.

That is not accurate information. 70% of the people voted against him. He became dictator by a legislation act, disabling the German Constitution and then pretty much appointed himself. Not saying this reference should have been made in the first place...

So are you one of those people that take the bible literally and tell women they are unclean each "time" of the month... protest that adulterists should be stoned to death... people that work on the Sabbath need to die as well? Or are you just picking and choosing from the good book as so many do?

Thank you! Couldn't have said it better! One of my previous GFs broke hers playing hockey. She GAVE away her virginity to the sport of hockey. How dare she! If people would spend this much time in contemplation of how to cure disease and keep healthy rather than finding devious means of controlling each other, we'd be much better off.

That's what we call "trolling" and he is doing a fine job here and in the other thread.

The whole concept of "virginity" in this thread is obsurd and is a man-made fallacy. I could put the same weight on my first words as a human being. Damn, I forgot to give the gift of my first words to my parents and said them to a complete stranger. I am a worthless human. What about women who are raped or people who unwillingly give up their so called "virginity?" The only reason the virginity term is good is that it keeps people from having sex too early and too often for pregnancy and STD reasons. Otherwise it should remain in the ancient past, much like other concepts only a couple of pages past the "virginity" concept -- such as stoning people to death and giving up first born children for sacrifice. Personally, I have had more infidelity problems with women who viewed their virginity in a HIGHER regard. Don't ask me why, maybe they were depressed to have lost it so early and since fidelity wasn't as important, they strayed. You are probably correct in that you are going to be hard pressed to find these type of women nowadays. Instead of looking in other countries and mail order deals, I would invest my time in inventing a time machine to travel back 1,000 years or so when the world's women were more naive. So do I think you can retroactively cheat? No (given other great posts in this thread already). Do I think giving up the concept of virginity makes people want to cheat more? Absolutely not. I think they would focus more on what really matters: Long term love and becoming one with themselves, their partners and whatever God they may pray to. At any rate, I have no problems with people keeping/giving/throwing/burning their "virginity," as long as they don't use it as a social weapon to bring down other races/religions/sexes in their righteous religiosity.

The simple answer to this topic: No. In my experience, you will never get back that trust you originally had with the person. Of course we all like to think so, but I have come to find that there are certain things we need to accept in life. I tried to give her another chance, but it's tough to break old habits, unless they are 100% willing to do so. But even then, if they were 100% willing, we wouldn't be in this predicament in the first place, would we?

I was curious to know what everyone's personal boundaries are, should they suspect their husband/wife/fiance/gf/bf of cheating on them. What I mean is, how far you would go in finding out information... checking phone bills - getting their e-mail password to check e-mails - following them - reading their diary/journal - hiring a PI etc (any other ways you have used/heard of?). I know every situation is different and that we all need to be in the situation to understand the complexities, but perhaps people have certain boundaries that can and should never be crossed?

The more I read the replies, the more I feel I need more information on why you cannot leave right now and why she feels she needs to wait 9 years. The only thing I can think of is children (until they are 18 or something), but (being from a divorced family) many times being separate is BETTER for a child. I won't go into this since I have no idea if this is even close to the problem. Being in a situation where my fiance is continually communicating with someone she had been cheated on with and cheated on me with... once it begins, it will haunt you for MUCH LONGER than nine 9 years. Do not invite negative behaviors into your life, as tempting as they may be. You not only hurt others, but yourself as well. If you are worried that you will lose the feelings of your potential affair partner, don't worry about that. They will think MUCH more highly of you if you solve the problems on your end first. This might be a bit harsh, but I know most guys need to hear the non-sugar coated crap to realize their behavior. Attempt to see your behavior from an outsider's perspective. It is not healthy to think of ways to create a relationship based on deception. Walking away and complaining about your problems with your current wife (that you state are not immediately solvable) to someone else with the intention of becoming intimate with them shows more insecurity than a 15 year old at a high school dance. You want to show confidence and find someone who will give you intimacy? Solve your marital problems first, no matter what. Find a way. If she won't talk or fix things with you, then you need to remove the unrepairable negative behavior from your life. I have a similar issue, except that my fiance wants to try to get things to work, but continues to find ways to skirt our healing process to get her attention fix. I am now taking steps on my end to get rid of the negativeness, since I am unable to change her end of the situation. You mentioned going to counseling. Just think of what the counselor's options will be for you. Communication, repair, and divorce (if all else fails). I highly doubt an affair is one of their suggestions. So why would you consider it of you WANT to try what a counselor would suggest? If this has happened with your wife in a past relationship, you should know where this is going anyway. Your energies should be placed in solving the problem... divorce if no solvable issue (as quickly as possible), NOT complicating your problems further bringing someone else into the mix.

Thanks again all. I suppose it doesn't make much difference how I got the information anyway if things are not going to continue. So I will just tell her a little birdie told me or something. I've already confronted her about looking through her e-mails etc before and it obviously didn't work, so there really isn't any point besides letting her know that I can't really trust her anymore with this situation. She will know I'm sure.

Not that its much of my business, but should I warn the wife of the ex (since a baby is also involved) that this crap is coming (again!) after I break it off with my fiance? She isn't quite as computer savvy as I am and the ex is much better than she at hiding his exploits...

Thanks again all for all your help. I'm so glad I found this site, otherwise I would probably continue to figure out what I needed to fix to make things better even longer. I'm gonna wait to figure things out until after we get back to school. God knows I have enough stress already. The other reason I am glad for this site is because you guys tell everyone if there is even a shadow of a doubt whether things can even work. I now know that I do not have a fixable situation. It makes the stress fall away just knowing that already. I was a fool, uh huh... as Ricky Nelson would say. The only thing why I was worried about telling her things I know is the whole going into her e-mail issue. I broke down, couldn't take it anymore and had to know. I just don't want it to turn into any huge horrible legal issue that I overstepped my boundaries (even though after the initial cheating she gave me her password and username to check on her stuff, but changes it each time she decides we are comfortable enough to begin chatting with him again).

It's so refreshing to hear other people's opinions on the suspicions that I have because it makes them concrete in a way that I cannot do myself. I obviously know what I have to do, but any further insights are helpful because it gives me confidence to do what I must.

Thanks for the responses so far everyone. I know what I have to do and it really sucks. I've had many relationships before her, most long term although I am only 26. I will search for a roommate as soon as I get home from the holidays. So when I do tell her I'm outta there, do I just tell her I can't trust her anymore or actually tell her the reasons (i.e. more e-mails etc). I hit that wall where I think she deserves to know why, but then my friends tell me she can figure that out on her own. I realize how blind love can be now. It's so simple when seeing other people's situations and yet when I see mine, I always have seen a "fix it" sign above it.