Mjane

I'm interested in knowing people's opinions about the impact of online on dating. Someone just said it benefits women.. ha. ha. where do they get that idea? I think there are almost as many women using online sites as men... Does it make people more judgemental of flaws? Do they move on too quick because they know the search button is only a click away? Is that why most online dates don't go past one? I've been thinking about this a lot because so many people have blamed the online world for their dating problems.. and I just wonder if the online world has changed dating? Or are people just using it as an excuse for having poor character judgement.

Is this a first date? Try not to go overboard and come off as an eager beaver... bring one flower not a bouquet.. I'm into understated messages that are meaningful... like I had a bf that bought me a book on SLEEP because I was having terrible insomnia... can you get her something small but that says you've listened to her talk?

I think it's somewhat inappropriate to ask a guy on the second date what his feelings are for you. Who does that? Screams an insecure lady to me. If I got asked that... I wouldn't even know what to say because it's just way, way too personal a question. Doesn't everyone assume everyone is dating multiple people until you actually talk about exclusivity? I do. I always date multiple people until I find a guy that 1) I go on more than one date 2) that I like enough to want to see more 3) I think has relationship potential

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be married, have a companion, etc. it's normal. and those that give you are a hard time about it are hoping for the same but just aren't courageous to say it out loud. But I caution you to not be looking for perfection because it doesn't exist. Being with someone who is flawed is not settling if they are the right person for you. And the only way to know what you want in a person is to date a lot of people.

Thanks everyone. I came here to profess my anxiety instead of dumping it on him. Sometimes I can't see the forest because those darned trees are in the way!! I want to be supportive of him without intruding on his space. I guess I'll just have to be satisfied that I'm supporting him in silence! I'm undecided about the depression issue. I think I'll have to see how that plays out. He says he's taking medication. My friend's boyfriend is also struggling with depression and decided when they first started dating that he wanted to deal with it through therapy rather than drugs. For the first eight months or so she could sense the depression and sometimes see it, but it's definitely faded. They've been together about 1.5 years. Thanks again for everyone's input. You've been very helpful.

Yes Ms. That's exactly what I'm doing.. waiting for the good times, the smiles, the jokes, the teasing, playful behavior to come back... How long should I give it? Because limbo is painful too. And because we haven't seen each other for very long... letting go early is always a bit bette for my heart, but I don't want to give up on him either. Another problem is none of the other men measure up... I just spent the day skiing with this guy.. it was our third date.. 11 hours together.. we get along fine, have plenty to talk about.. but I realized tonight he doesn't generate any excitement/attraction in me.

Thanks for replying Ms. Yes, I agree. I was shocked when he told me he was going to lose his job. The same call he told me he's had depression issues a few years back but he takes medication now. I almost felt like that was a warning.... So, yes, I'm being cautious. I haven't called, only sent an email... and the only cursory thing is two weeks ago an email I sent went to his spam folder... could have happened again... the only reason I still hang in there is every time I think it's over or I think something negative.. it turns out to be the opposite... I don't want to jump to conclusions and want to give him space to work out his issues... my fear is it could take months.

Hey D, I meant to write you last week, but got distracted... I have sooooo been where you are. I'm actually not bad looking, normal weight, smart, funny, you name every good trait and that's me!!! ha. modest too. Anyway, I was you last spring. Went out with 12 or so guys, none seemed to want a second date... I was peeved cause while I wasn't interested in them... you want to be desired by someone!!! I chalked it up to one simple issue: no chemistry. I didn't feel it and they probably didn't either. So, even if you felt it, she probably didn't. Try not to take it so personally. Take a dating break... a month or two... and then get back into it. I will say after the lousy streak, I met a guy through my outdoors club, I approached him about a date first... then I left it up to him to pursue, which he did. We dated four months and then he dumped me when we had a conflict... sigh... men... Anyway, I have just met one of my ones... I just knew on our first and an even stronger feeling on my second date that wow... this guy and I could have a really good relationship...I've never felt that before... it's a wonderful feeling... but guess what... he's going through a nightmare job/loss problem right now and hasn't contacted me or set up any future dates!! we've gone out four times, last time was 10 days ago. ouch. first time I meet a ONE and it goes to hell within a month!!! I'm still hanging in there with him but I'm also dating other guys to keep my options open. I met him through an online service, btw. My experiences have been a lot like yours. I haven't had relationships with men I've met online (only one) but I've met quality men I just haven't had chemistry with them... that's all. I don't blame me. I don't blame them. And I sure don't blame the Internet. Just keep dating. It's all a numbers game. And if you keep yourself out there, at places where you can meet people instead of burrowing away in your home... you'll meet her someday.. it just might take a few days... Good luck to you and me!

Hi guys!! This board just has such great advice from wonderful people that I'm hoping you'll give me a bit of feedback. I've been dating this guy for about a month now...I know he's one of the ones... I'm a cautious dater.. I never have this feeling about a guy before... I'm not in love or anything.. but I just KNOW this guy and I could have an amazing future.. I know sounds crazy.. I think it's crazy... but here I am, he's 37, I'm 35, and we have a blast in each other's company. He's a bit too laid back as he takes quite a few days to call after dates. Then a few weeks ago he becomes withdrawn and a bit moody. I figure he doesn't want to date me anymore, but he says he still wants to see me. It turns out he's going to lose his job. He also has struggled with depression in the past. So, I'm trying really hard to give him his space. I last saw him 10 days ago. I wrote him a thinking of you, how are you email Thursday night, but he hasn't responded. He hasn't called either. I know he must be upset, depressed and struggling here. But I'm feeling a tad insecure as I haven't heard from him. We are only in the beginning stages of dating and he hasn't replied to the email. Should I hang in there or write him off? So as a caveat I'm dating other men. Went skiing with one today and have two dates scheduled with two different guys next week. So I"m not sitting by the phone waiting for it to ring... but I do feel he had the best potential... I've already decided the e-mail is the last time I pursue contact with him... What do you think?

Wildation, Here is some girl advice... Always CALL a girl within a couple of days of the date if you want to see her again. Don't use email, Ims, etc. CALL. Why? Because most girls want to hear from the guy the next day. They just want to hear him say, hey, I had a good time last night. Wanna go out again? That's it. It's very simple. If your cell phone minutes are gone, use a pay phone. There is no such thing as playing "it cool." Instead that's speak for playing games... If you are direct and respond quickly... your pain and her pain are resolved quite quickly... if she didn't want to see you again.. you would know within a day or two of going out... instead of waiting... what is it a week? This whole playing it cool theory or behavior in fact only creates confusion, pain, misunderstandings and you have to fake being you. Don't you want this girl to like YOU? I of course have my own "cool" standards and that's simply this... you make contact once and if they don't return your call... then you are on to the next person. I take dating risks all the time. And often they pay off. And it's just a wonderful feeling knowing that if I hadn't taken X risk, then Y wouldn't have happened. Here is a good example.... the guy I'm dating now... I had a blast on our first date... I couldn't stop laughing... this guy was so funny, interesting, everything... but when he drops me off at my house... he leaves the car in gear, he's on the wrong side of the street to park... I thought he was a bit reserved... so I just opened the car door, I thought I said I had a good time and told him I'd talk to him again. But when I got out of that car I was convinced I was never, ever going to hear from him again. I was quite down about it for the next couple of days because I just rarely meet men like him. And I was depressed it didn't work out. In my book, guys need to initiate calling because guys control the pace and frequency of dates.... it just is. Don't argue with me. But when girls chase guys... it never works. So, two days pass and I don't hear from him. I decided to send him an email. It said.... had a blast, would love to see you again. He calls me the next night, shocked. He didn't think I wanted to see him again either because I left the car so quickly. He and I are both terrible at the end of dates. We laughed a lot about it. Couldn't believe how dumb each of us was because we both liked each other. Duh!! So the lesson is risks can pay off!! I've dated so many men that I can tell you... it's rare to find someone you like, who likes you back... take a little risk... if it turns out she doesn't like you... well hell... so you put yourself out there a teensy bit... it didn't work out.. and you move on... the key is to not have any regrets... and guess what, not taking action can really build into future regrets... I know because I spent my 20s not taking any risks and I was miserable.

I'm sorry that I didn't defend myself six weeks ago against the bitter diatribe, but I just haven't been around. I wanted to clarify something and Cougar emphasized it. To change your dating habits takes a conscious recognition of what you are doing wrong. You also have to be willing to make changes if you want to get the relationship you desire. I learn from every relationship I have and I'm still learning and searching. Giving too much too soon is a big killer. So is never giving at all. Relationships take a delicate balance of characteristics and personality. Most relationships don't work out... it's like... and it's best to move on with love than hold yourself back with hate and bitterness. I just wanted to comment on Ziggy's remarks. I'm 35 and I like to wait -- a few months -- before having sex. I've realized it's best for me because if a guy sticks around that long, I know he's not dating me for sex. And I've found that I don't get insecure and doubt his feelings for me when I wait.

Despite what your x's friend says, if your bf wanted to talk to you/reconcile etc. he'd call you. It's as simple as that. And if he's shy/afraid of your response he'd at least e-mail. Stick to NC.

Foz, speaking of the smiths. used to have all the vinals in the 80s but never converted them to CDs... until... a month or so before the breakup the X and I listened to the Smiths in his car reminicing.... anyway... weeks after the breakup I just couldn't get this Smiths craving out of my system... it was probably just me wanting to relive my moments with him... I went out and got some used Smith CDs.

There were three songs that helped me during this most recent breakup. Hurt -- Johnny Cash version Wicked Game -- Chris Isaak Don't give up on me -- Solomon Burke I played them almost every morning as I drove to work for six weeks or so..

Nap-man, I got a little confused and that last email should have been on a different forum. Sorry.

Nap-man, I know the comments were harsh. But I felt it was necessary as you seem kind of blinded in your situation. It appears that you have moments of clarity and then get sucked back into the fantasy you have created. Don't get me wrong... I think this woman has feelings for you... ones of appreciation or even love... but not romantic love. Women are really not that hard to figure out. From everything you've written, she's shown lots of dependence on you, caring and appreciation but she's also been cold, dating another man. She's just not showing signs that she's coming back to you because she loves you. I'm sorry. If the two of you start up again... I figure it will last as long as she finds a replacement. But I wanted to address RayF's huge generalizations about women, which I think for the most part are wholely incorrect. Most girls want to be with ONE guy. I think women are much more dedicated and loyal to relationships than men. But this site has certainly given me a different perspective as it's full of guys with broken hearts. But I also visit another web site which is totally full of women who are crushed by guys who break up with them by just never calling them again!!!! Anyway, in general men and woman are not nearly as calculating as we are both generalizing. I think they all want the same thing .. to love and be loved. But we attract to a certain extent what we want and don't want... but we don't always attract the person who is best for us.... Get it? Men and woman tend to get tangled with people who we desire but are bad choices (bad boys, bad girls, pretty but not nice, handsome but a player, etc. etc.). If you find yourself on a rollercoaster of the same kind of woman (ones who play you... just as many women and men do this) go out with a woman who is different from your usual tastes. Because men need to be attracted to a girl first... try and find more women attractive than just your usual kind ... don't be so selective about body type or hair or face... try and recognize that looks fade and if you meet a girl who just makes you laugh and you have loads of fun with but perhaps isn't a knockout... ask her out and see what happens. I've been doing this the past few years, so I'm practicing what I preach.

Break up Vet, I just spent the past 45 minutes reading these posts. I of course wanted to write after the first few posts but out of respect read the entire thing. Stop analyzing everything!!! Stop thinking!!!! You will make a woman a GREAT boyfriend. Especially if you get a little more attitude and get rid of the doormat complex. But this woman is not the one for you. You need to walk away before you are: 1) crazy 2) broke 3) bitter about all woman because this woman has rung you dry Why did she do this or that or whatever, who cares??? She has told you she doesn't plan to get back together with you. And that's not what you want. So MOVE ON. Who cares if she calls you 9 times one day. Who cares if she invites you places. Who cares if she makes you dinner. IT'S OVER. She doesn't want you. She's just being your friend. That's it. God, it just breaks my heart that a seemingly great guy like yourself is wasting so much time and money on a woman who is just using you. I mean now I understand why all the guys here whine about girls who use them. I never do this, but now I understand. It doesn't even matter if you say, oh, well I know her and she's not using me. YES SHE IS. She may not be doing it on purpose because she's so dependent on you, but she has no romantic feelings for you all the same and yet she's leading you on. Why do you think her son is so angry with her over her treatment of you? It's because he sees that she is using you and he cares for you and doesn't want to see you humiliated. you need to get some confidence in yourself and know that you'll find someone else. Someone better and more appreciative. Get out while you have a chance and some dignity left. otherwise you are going to find yourself broken into so many pieces it will be hard to put back together.

I don't think your X is using you. She's treating you like a friend. You were friends for six years before dating. She's just keeping the friendship alive. But I would NOT count on getting back together. Basically your X has told you that she's willing to date someone else despite being super busy. That says to me her romantic interest level in you has declined significantly. And once a girl puts a guy in the friendship category, it's very hard to break out of it.

It sounds like he agreed to the conditions as a way to shut you up and get you off his back. Don't contact him on the anniversary day. Wait for him to call you and if he doesn't, you have your answer. In the meanwhile, move on.

Girls do like nice guys, but we don't like pushovers or wimps. The issue with "nice guys" isn't that they are nice guys... that bull. The guys that are having women treat them poorly or walk all over them or essentially are blaming being nice for being unsuccessful in relationships is because they GIVE way too much way too SOON and lack self confidence. Women can smell out weak guys in a second. The key is to have more self control and not be so obvious or desperate. The key to scoring with women is confidence, self control, a pleasant appearance (clean, freshly showered, somewhat in style), kindness and being romantic. It's not that hard. In the first three months of dating or so you've got to take it easy and relax. Don't be too eager, don't give too much, don't profess deep feelings that you can't possibly feel, etc. Take it day by day. It's not that women like jerks but it's like any mystery or puzzle. Men and woman enjoy the time and fun it takes to get to know someone. Noone wants the puzzle solved before you even take out the pieces. Mix in a little romance, kindness and attentiveness, and you've got a successful mix.

swede, If it makes you feel any better I think everyone -- man and woman -- has been fooled by a screwed up person before. Myself included. I know it's hard. But try and push thoughts of reconciliation of your mind. As well, you aren't at fault here. So try and let go of all the analysis. I believe this guy meant everything he said to you. He just is incapable of following through because of his phobic fears. Consider yourself luck that he didn't leave you at the alter. You know what to look out for now in phobic guys. Take care of youself,

This guy is gone for good and you should say good ridance. Even if he comes back begging you, he's gone. You can't change this guy. He's the one with issues and until he deals with them he won't change. There is no relationship with this girl. It's too bad you focused so much energy on it. Because this girl (who you say he barely knows, hasn't seen in five years etc.) is his escape hatch. He's always going to have an escape hatch until he gets over his fear. And because your relationship has been tainted with this escape hatch a couple of times, you and he will never work out. Just my opinion

My comment was not meant as patronising only that in 6 to 12 months hopefully you wouldn't care if you ever heard from them again. It's good that you are stronger. I post what I think, not necessarily what people want to hear. Just my opinion.

I say show her the door today or this weekend. Man, I feel bad for you. But geez, this woman is such bad news. Don't get manipulated into letting her stay the next two months. I'm sure she'll sweet talk you. Throw sex at you. Whatever. But she is only using you. Tell her she has to be out the day she returns from Wisconsin. She can get a hotel for all you care.

I read your post and all I could think of was how sad it would be for anyone holding out hope of hearing from the X 6 or 12 months later.