Warrior women (for lack of a better title)

Here's the TLDR: I'm not a lesbian (although they are fine folk) and I'm not a femnazi or feminist and this isn't about that anyway. I'm just looking to see if anyone knows of a forum where I could discuss the idea of being a warrior in a species where my society has over the years decided that my sex can not be as such.

Ok now to the meat of it.

So it's been a long time since I've been here and things have been going relatively good, considering my constant battles with depression and anxiety. Because I squandered my teenage years stuck in a home with a widowed overbearing mother, I never really had the chance to look at who I am as a person. Then in my 20's I just pretty much lived a non-life, just working and trying desperately to find where I fit only not doing that well of a job of it. This leads me to what I'm about to ask.

Ok so if you look at society as a whole both now and in the past (go WAY back here, think like paleolithic days) women were supposed to have kids and forage. Science leads me to believe that in those days if you're out foraging and some guy decides to jump out of a bush and take you right there and he's in your tribe you're supposed to be okay with that. Jump a thousand or so years, we were property to be exchanged in marriage for sons and land and whatnot. Jump even further to today and we can basically do what we want except you better pop them kids out and be the little woman of the house. Now, this isn't a feminist question at all so don't try to go there (I tend to leave those ideals for those who like to argue about stuff, I certainly don't), my question is, what out there exists for those of us who don't want to be the "little woman"?

I feel as though I was born to defend. If I was in medieval times I would be the one sneaking out to put on the heavy armor, pick up a sword and fight for my country. I would be the one in caveman days to go out with the spear, search for the buffalo and help bring it down. That's what I would do. That's what's in my soul. I watch/read/study a lot of human history in an attempt to find my place in the world, and honestly, it's not there. Many societies throughout the world, when you are born a girl they're either angry about it, or if you're lucky, you're 3rd and the first 2 are boys so it's okay they can use you in some way. Or nowadays, your dad just worries that you'll end up pregnant before he gets to have you married off first. Basically what I'm looking for, is does anyone know of a group of people, hopefully a forum of some sort-I don't care what kind at this point- of a group of women that are above this sort of thing. Who feel like society and damn near human history, is telling them who they should be and they are rallying against it to be the complete opposite of what that is. Not just because of some desperate need to rebel but from a desperate need to fulfill who they are on the inside.

And before you even ask, no I am not a lesbian, I am not trying to be a dude. I am just really trying to be me and to find others like me to associate with. So far I'm coming up empty.

Here's the TLDR: I'm not a lesbian (although they are fine folk) and I'm not a femnazi or feminist and this isn't about that anyway. I'm just looking to see if anyone knows of a forum where I could discuss the idea of being a warrior in a species where my society has over the years decided that my sex can not be as such.

I'm gonna stop you right there. IGNORE OUR SOCIETY COMPLETELY.

You can be WHATEVER you want to be. Heck, I would go as far as saying do the OPPOSITE of our society, that is probably WAY better!!! Society does NOT dictate you, YOU allow our society to dictate you. It's an issue with YOU.

And in case you haven't figured it out yet, our society SUCKS!

Ok now to the meat of it.

 

So it's been a long time since I've been here and things have been going relatively good, considering my constant battles with depression and anxiety. Because I squandered my teenage years stuck in a home with a widowed overbearing mother, I never really had the chance to look at who I am as a person. Then in my 20's I just pretty much lived a non-life, just working and trying desperately to find where I fit only not doing that well of a job of it. This leads me to what I'm about to ask.

 

Ok so if you look at society as a whole both now and in the past (go WAY back here, think like paleolithic days) women were supposed to have kids and forage. Science leads me to believe that in those days if you're out foraging and some guy decides to jump out of a bush and take you right there and he's in your tribe you're supposed to be okay with that. Jump a thousand or so years, we were property to be exchanged in marriage for sons and land and whatnot. Jump even further to today and we can basically do what we want except you better pop them kids out and be the little woman of the house. Now, this isn't a feminist question at all so don't try to go there (I tend to leave those ideals for those who like to argue about stuff, I certainly don't), my question is, what out there exists for those of us who don't want to be the "little woman"?

 

I feel as though I was born to defend. If I was in medieval times I would be the one sneaking out to put on the heavy armor, pick up a sword and fight for my country. I would be the one in caveman days to go out with the spear, search for the buffalo and help bring it down. That's what I would do. That's what's in my soul. I watch/read/study a lot of human history in an attempt to find my place in the world, and honestly, it's not there. Many societies throughout the world, when you are born a girl they're either angry about it, or if you're lucky, you're 3rd and the first 2 are boys so it's okay they can use you in some way. Or nowadays, your dad just worries that you'll end up pregnant before he gets to have you married off first. Basically what I'm looking for, is does anyone know of a group of people, hopefully a forum of some sort-I don't care what kind at this point- of a group of women that are above this sort of thing. Who feel like society and damn near human history, is telling them who they should be and they are rallying against it to be the complete opposite of what that is. Not just because of some desperate need to rebel but from a desperate need to fulfill who they are on the inside.

 

And before you even ask, no I am not a lesbian, I am not trying to be a dude. I am just really trying to be me and to find others like me to associate with. So far I'm coming up empty.

How about this. Rent a chainsaw from Home depot, do some wood gathering and onto the best part.......CHOP SOME WOOD!!!

Great work out and a great way to get some anger out as well.

Look, you can do whatever the hell you want. Don't worry about the world, your place in it, you are just a little ant, completely irrelevant to the world. So it's up to YOU do figure out WHAT you want to be, WHO you want to be.

Our society and the world, doesn't' really give a crap.

The only answer here is, DO IT!

.... so you want to be an independent, career-minded adult.

Plenty of you exist. It's 2015. I get that it's not as common for women to win the bread as it is for men, but this is a touch dramatic.

I grew up with a brother and sister, graduated in the 10th class of women at an all male college and entered a male dominated industry.

I am one year from paying off my mortgage, never married and never had kids. I lived my life my way...and my parents nor society defined my rules. I have been in long term relationships and yet never married. I am not a lesbian.

Do what you want, how you want. There are no rules.

Maybe get in the gym and start training like Gina Carano. There are lots of options out there. Military, FBI, martial arts, etc.

[video=youtube;jwBJ_-P35Pg] ]

Wow... you sure have a lot of ideas about how things functioned in historical times. Women have a lot of different places in a lot of different societies. Personally I can't think of a time I would rather be female other than now. Birth control being a huge part of that. I have zero interest in having kids, I have a challenging career (that wouldn't have been open to women even 40 years ago) and I am able to shape my relationships any way I want (I have two boyfriend's and a girlfriend, there are plenty of times in history where that would have got me into a lot of trouble, but there are other times when this would be more normal.

I think your resistance to thinking this is feminist thinking is a little... um... I know feminist is a dirty word in some places but it isn't to me. And not wanting to have children and not wanting to build your life around being a "little wife" doesn't make you gay or a dude. It sounds like a lot of the things you are struggling with are inside your own head. Where are you from? Have you tried connecting with feminist groups? Or (a word for gay that starts starts with Q that isn't a dirty word but it still counted as one on this forum for some reason, even though it is a better descriptor of what I am talking about) groups? Or any non-normative groups?

The truth is we can only guess at what culture looked like in the paleolithic era. Often our guesses are by looking at society here and now a supposing what it might have looked like then. If you like cultural anthropology around gender I would suggest reading Sex at Dawn. Its a fun one that looks at how gender relations might have functioned very differently then we supposed them to.

It can be hard to feel like you don't fit into the culture you have to participate in. I've really struggled with it but I've worked hard to find people and spaces where I feel less restricted by our cultures ideals. When you start to do that you'll notice that there are a LOT of women (and men) who struggle against this social structure.

Hey there. Are you in a well developed country? (US, Canada, UK, etc).

I think being a woman is the pits in many developing countries...heck, being born there in general is the pits due to limited resources, crowded conditions, harmful customs, etc.

As an American woman, when it comes to my gender, I don't feel oppressed and I feel as though I can do what I want. I do not want children and I am currently kind of ambivalent about marriage (although I know my boyfriend wants it, so long term, I'd have to compromise but I'll cross that bridge if I come to it) and no one can say anything. Yes, you'll always get some people who poo-poo your life choices when it comes to not wanting marriage/babies, but that's only because they are small-minded. Who cares, it doesn't really matter. You just have to do what is right for you.

I am not less of a woman for not wanting those things.

The key here is to define yourself by your own abilities, talents, and traits. You're a woman. Your sex chromosomes are XX and you have a vagina. That's it. Times have changed. You no longer are seen as property. You can be as traditional or non-traditional as you want. Find what makes you happy and makes you feel fufilled, maybe that's a career, or some passions, or hobbies. Or being with loved ones and sharing new experiences, or all of these things. I don't believe in rebelling just to rebel or "find myself". You're only going to find yourself by exploring and having new experiences and finding out what you like and don't like, and that could involve traditional and non-traditional activities for women.

Don't let anyone box you in and most importantly, don't box yourself in.

Jump even further to today and we can basically do what we want except you better pop them kids out and be the little woman of the house.

Who's telling you this crap?

my question is, what out there exists for those of us who don't want to be the "little woman"?

Any and everything you might be open to doing is out there for you to do. Don't let what other women are or aren't doing dictate what you do or don't do.

what kind of time warp voodoo is this? do you live in a different era?

you're basically asking "so, as a woman, what do i do with myself?". nobody here has a "bill of rights/acceptable life choices, speciafically geared at your gender" to read out to you.

it's easier to say "society" (or even just your circle) is constricting you in your capacity to engage with life with it's invisible cleching fist than it is to say you've simply not found your own direction or your own acceptance of your life choices.

when you're making the ones you truly feel are right for you, you won't need anyone's approval, and their disapproval with not hit this much of a nerve with you.

i agree, a tad too dramatic. only you have your own life to live, it may be a tempting idea to stop and bark at everyone who disapproves of it but it ultimately doesn't get you far.

Sorry to make everyone think I'm being over dramatic, I really do feel like I'm being bombarded with people telling me I can't do anything. I'm in the US, in the south specifically and I work for a large healthcare company with a lot of women. I'm 34 and I don't want any kids and everyone around me has them. I get a lot of comments like, "you're still not married? Huh *disapproving face*" Coming up is my birthday, and I got the "I can't believe you had that operation" from my mother who is mad that I made myself sterile on purpose because I didn't want any kids. Follow this up with the media see this , and following up that I get a lot of comments from other people who think I'm stupid because I enjoy being in martial arts, I want to learn to use a bow, and a gun, and other various things. Lots of people around me always give me. "That's guy stuff, go sit down," is what I get. So maybe everyone around me is crazy or I just have bad luck with people. That last part wouldn't be surprising actually.

Your link didn't produce anything for me, just a blank page.

I'd say get out of your head about it. I like shooting traditional archery, I was in martial arts for QUITE some time before my ex kinda sabotaged my dojo for me. I don't shoot all that often because I don't have a safe and inexpensive place to do it.

None of that is "go sit down" to me. It's come do it with me, just forgive me if my ego gets bruised when you do it better than I do ;-)

Who cares what other people think? What a waste of time.

Join a gun club, sign up,for single, kid free vacations. When people make ignorant comments, remind them what century we are in....and don't forget to remind them women can vote.

Part of it is that you're in the South. Bible belt region tends to be more judgmental in general. But you know, men face the same sort of discrimination and comments if they are 30+ and unmarried/no children. It is not just women.

I handle guns and hunt pretty regularly. Nothing is stopping you. I haven't had anyone say anything to me about hunting other than the typical "ooohh but BAMBI" sort of comments, which has nothing to do with me being a lady and everything to do with people watching too much Disney and not understanding what hunting is about.

These people don't have much effect on you though. They can't stop you. You want to do something? Go out there and do it.

why do you give these ridiculous opinions so much attention? Next time they beg to differ with your life choices tell them something like "thanks for letting me know you think my vagina makes me unfit for archery. is that just your privates talking or is the sum total of all your parts a dumb simpleton?"

or maybe "oh excuse me, i was about to go and live my life and mind my own business but i heard you sighing exasperatedly because you find that wrong. would you like me to sign you a form so you can make my decisions for me due to me being unfit for that, or would you rather have my profuse written appology for hurting your feelings by living like i dang well please?"

the last thing you want to be is disheartened or even considering abandoning your own unique path because someone rolled their eyes at it.

Ignore idiots is the only answer here.

Live ANY way you want.

People are shallow, selfish and closed minded. As you can tell!

PS. DO NOT share ANY details of your life with people. Nothing good can EVER come of that. The less people around you know ,the better off you will be! Only share your private life with CLOSE friends/Family. NOT co workers, they are NOT your friends!

If anything, those people's words should ONLY tell you to stay away from them. If at work, BE FRIENDLY (say hi) but keep it limited to work talk.....

Look, I have 4 kids and have been happily married for almost 20 years. I'm telling you it's NOT for everyone. Do what you please/whatever makes you happy. Whatever floats that boat.

Anyone telling you what to do or h ow to live your life = stay away, FAR away

Sounds to me like you need to pay less attention to your co-workers and how they live and focus more on finding like minded people to hang out with after work. At the end of the day, you choose your friends, so find like minded people and you'll be a whole lot happier.

As for living in the South.....well....seems like every other woman I know either hunts or loves to go fishing. Then again, it goes back to finding like minded people. So I'd say try outdoorsy groups - camping, hiking, etc. You might get pleasantly surprised that you are not that alone in your pursuits.

Ignore society and do whatever fulfills you.

Gender roles are ridiculous...

I was always a bit of a warrior woman who was born from a warrior woman. My mom was always the breadwinner not my dad in a time where women weren't supposed to do those things. ( I am almost 50) My mom became the CEO of a company in the 1980s. She was a crusader for protecting battered and abused women in the 70s.

I was in our military for 13 years as I come from a very strong military family. But I was the only female member of our family to ever join the military. And I served side-by-side with my brother.

You have to throw off the mental shackles. Be whatever you want.

People will have opinions whatever you do - listen to the ones from the people you trust or the people you ask for opinions (i.e. I am not a fan of unsolicited opinions but if it is from someone where there is mutual respect sometimes it's good to listen and consider it). Don't use broad generalizations about gender roles as an excuse to throw in the towel. And refuse to indulge in assumptions -some women marry/have children because of societal pressure, many more these days marry and/or have children because that is a dream, a passion. Totally fine that you don't want to marry/have kids!

Throughout my teens and 20s I read all kinds of working woman articles that set me up to believe that I'd have some big competitive battle against my success, especially in New York City.

My experience has been the opposite. People have been kind and generous, and they've helped me even when they didn't have to, regardless of their gender.

You have the whole Internet at your fingertips. Find an interest or cause that motivates you, and pursue it. That will position you to meet like-minded people who are too busy working TOWARD something to get bogged down in any preoccupations with how the world views them.

That's the stuff of navel gazing, and it's not productive--or inspiring.

I live in the US -- I'm 45, never married, no children (by choice), own a house, have a career that pays well and has a retirement plan. I travel, I take care of a house (with pets!) I run (even did a marathon) have hobbies and interests and a very full life.

I JUST met a great guy this year, but prior to that, I'd been single for a number of years. I've rarely, if ever, gotten ANY flack for my life choices. In fact, virtually NO ONE has ever asked me when I was going to "pop out some babies(!)" including my parents; the only people who have asked this have been clueless clods, really.

I have a feeling that there are a few factors at work here: 1) Where you live; and 2) The field in which you work. I live in California, and I am in higher education, and being a childless, never-married 40-something woman is not a big deal at all. I don't know much about the south, but I know there are more conservative, traditional people there than in other parts of the US, AND being in healthcare, which is a field in which I think a more significant portion of women DO have children (based on my friends and family who are in that field and what they report to me). You are probably surrounded by women with kids (and perhaps grandkids), and for them, it's "the norm" to have children.

I agree with the poster who said you can do whatever you want. If anyone questions my choices, I just raise an eyebrow at their cluelessness and politely exit. Incidentally, one of these aforementioned "clueless" people who questioned me about having children (I think her exact words were, "You're 36 and you don't have children yet? You'd better get on that right away!") was a medical assistant in my gynecologist's office. I politely but firmly told her that not everyone wants or needs to have children. She had no more to say after that!

There was a mandatory meeting recently, kind of a get together from other departments and I just got overloaded with stupid comments from people. Someone breaks out the "oh here's 500 pictures I have on my facebook with all my kids, LET'S ALL SHARE!!" and it all goes to hell after that. The looks I got from people when I showed off my 2 cats, my lack of kids and my relationship that has yet to produce any kids or a ring (which is fine by me and I state as such) and my interests and I get to go sit in the corner. Just really got to me. But I really do appreciate your comments I feel much better.

There was a mandatory meeting recently, kind of a get together from other departments and I just got overloaded with stupid comments from people. Someone breaks out the "oh here's 500 pictures I have on my facebook with all my kids, LET'S ALL SHARE!!" and it all goes to hell after that. The looks I got from people when I showed off my 2 cats, my lack of kids and my relationship that has yet to produce any kids or a ring (which is fine by me and I state as such) and my interests and I get to go sit in the corner. Just really got to me. But I really do appreciate your comments I feel much better.

Yes- you have to have a thick skin and tune it out. Because it's at work I wouldn't do the smart comments back "of course I'm not married -your husband is taken, right?" or I used to say when my then boyfriend and I were asked when we planned to marrry "oh, when the kids are grown" (we had no children), I would not show photos of your cats or any family members, etc - that's just going to draw attention to their focus on marital status and kids. It's pathetic when all people can talk about is their kids especially at a non-kid event (and even if it is - give me a break -get a life and find some other things to talk about that are far more interesting -at least that's what I do).

I heard my coworkers talking about BF'ing and crusty nipples for half an hour last week. I just kept my mouth shut and kept busy so I didn't have to hear. Gross. I'm not sure how long you've been working but people tend to get to know one another and their general likes/dislikes. My boss (she likes me) knows I'm pretty no-nonsense and focused so when we talk, we talk about weight loss, our gym activities, etc. When she gets baby pictures, she does not show me or ask me if I want to look. She does not badger me about my status/childfreeness.

If you rebuff people enough, like when they show you baby photos, don't pretend to be excited, just say "Oh, that's nice" and go back to what you're doing, then they will stop. Why do these women go ga-ga over photos? Because they think it will get them positive attention. Don't give it to them. Don't show your own photos. Just say "Oh, okay, cute" with no enthusiasm and focus back on work topics.

Trust me, I've done this for a while. No one bothers me anymore and I don't have to look at baby photos because people know I'm not the person to go to for that. And no one dislikes me for it.

^^^Agree. I have not attended a bridal shower or baby shower in decades. Friends and family know to not even invite me ---- if invited, I send gift and don't go.

And since they are very clear on that ---- it seems kinda rude to beg for a gift, so they simply leave me off the list.