I’m at a loss

[DarkCh0c0]

9 minutes ago, mikroula said:

Is it correct for him to use the engagement ring and how much it cost as an argument?

You're supposed to be a team. Questioning such topics shows how cheap and manipulative he is. He bought you a ring? Guess what?! You can buy one yourself too!!

Please, start planning your exit asap. This man is NOT healthy. And please get therapy to reflect on why you have lowered your standards and worth so much and accept abuse willingly.

You have done NOTHING to warrant his abuse.

You are worthy OP, and you don't need him.

[bluecastle]

When he “mock asks” about the car being the first step to you leaving him? That’s him admitting something: that he knows he treats you like trash, that you should leave him, and that he is way too insecure to be in a relationship with anyone.

I would listen to him, and start making a plan to get out. 

[jul-els]

The only way you could be the problem is if you choose to stay with him. He is abusive. The abuse will break down your cognitive function over time, which is what’s causing your confusion. It will only get worse and your suffering will grow. Get out of this relationship immediately. It’s extremely unhealthy and there is no way to fix it. 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, mikroula said:

My fiancé has outbursts. lose him temper and unleash a torrent of abuse about how this is all my fault and I’m a c*nt and a b***h and a few other choice words whilst he screamed and yelled and banged around in the car. we live in this tiny cottage and as we both work from home. I am the main breadwinner 

this isn’t the first time he has had these outbursts.

He's been abusive all along. Since you are the breadwinner and have money, move out, or get a restraining order and have him move put. Are you an immigrant or is there any other reason you tolerate this abuse?

How can you respect someone who could cause accidents and injure people? This WILL escalate. He is not just calling you names he is already using physical violence. Maybe now he just thrashes around in the car, next it will be throwing you about. Do you need a trip (or few) to the ER to understand he's abusive? Is this the same man?:

https://www.enotalone.com/topic/449412-need-advice-should-i-break-this-off-before-its-too-late/#comment-5679282

 

[boltnrun]

No, a ring is not an excuse to abuse you.

I bet if you didn't support him financially he wouldn't have been able to afford the ring, would he?

The abuse will get worse if you stay with him. If you marry him it will increase tenfold.

You can afford to leave him. You're luckier than most abuse victims as they usually have no income and no money of their own.

You do NOT have to stay with this abusive person.

[HeartGoesOn]

In a few words, what you see is what you get. You can't change him, nor can you can control his abuse, as it will likely to statistically escalate.

You need to take yourself out of the line of fire ASAP, and begin building your life from there.  You can do this.

In short, don't feel you're the exception to the rule...you're not.

[MissCanuck]

I am very concerned that you don't see just how bad this rotten turnip of a man is. 

This is an abusive relationship. Full stop. There is no fixing this. Can you find some local counselling? You would benefit from some intensive inner work on your self-worth. He's got you so manipulated and broken down that you don't know which way is up anymore. 

 

[SooSad33]

3 hours ago, mikroula said:

When we got to the airport he turns and says ‘I’m sorry are you going to break up with me?’ I said no and then he went on to blame me saying his behaviour is because I was selfish in wanting to be driven to the airport like a princess and now me wanting to move house ( we live in this tiny cottage and as we both work from home) and how I want all the time. Yes I have said I will buy a new car ( with my own money! I am the main breadwinner anyway) as I need my own car. He just went on and on about how demanding I am etc.

this isn’t the first time he has had these outbursts. Mainly they happen when things happen and he can’t control them but the behaviour is very similar to a five year old having a temper tantrum. Jumping up and down. Screaming very loudly  and generally behaving in a way where I don’t quite know whether to laugh or cry.

I just don’t know what to do or what to think. Does anyone have any advice?

Advice?  Yeah, LEAVE!

My gawd, the guy has issue's. Venting on you & insults like that!?  Ridiculous!

You do not deserve this kind of treatment... Right?

No, you are not being demanding & unsupportive.  HE is!  And he has anger issue's.

What he is doing- especially over time is damaging you and making YOU feel guilt.  Is like an abusive parent. Grooming their child to either fight back, be a bully or pull away in fear.

What YOU need to do is leave.  For your own mentality.  If he can't control his outbursts this is a major concern.  Remember it is verbal abuse.

And do NOT let him lay any GUILT on you!  They often do this too. ( Like he said...'I'm sorry, are you gonna break up with me now?').  No, he is not sorry, because, he's done it repeatedly hasn't he- with no attempts at correcting his behaviour. ( and yeah, they are well aware of their behaviour!).

So.. learn your worth.  And get out of this crap before you become damaged any further. 😕 

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, mikroula said:

Is it correct for him to use the engagement ring and how much it cost as an argument? Basically when he says I’m selfish and I only do things for myself I mention how I basically spent all my savings furnishing the house and supporting us this past year but then he will say that he bought me the ring so that means we’re even.

Again, he uses that for manipulation. He "guilt-trips" you for wanting things that dont make you isolated and dependant on him. Even things like working long hours because, again, that means you arent confined at home and isolated and can escape. Its a classic abuser tactic to do stuff like that. Hence why you are feeling doubt even for stuff like buying your own car for money you made. Because he "installed" that doubt in you to manipulate you so your position wont change and realize that you are better without him.

That is why you need to leave. He is at the stage I wouldnt be surprised that it escalates to physical violence. He already has violent outbursts so you need to leave before he unleashes that on you.

[boltnrun]

If you choose to leave, he will try to stop you. Not because he loves you so much (although he might say it) but because he doesn't want his abuse toy to go away. He would have to find another woman who's willing to allow him to abuse her and that's not easy for him. He would have to act nice at first (I bet he was absolutely lovely in the beginning) and abusers HATE acting nice. They hate women and think they don't deserve to be treated well, but he wouldn't be able to catch a woman if he acted like his usual abusive self up front. So he'd rather hang on to trusty old you because you've already proved you'll take his abuse. Plus, you have money! Although he'll try to take that away from you if you stay.

And beware. He will try all sorts of tactics to try to get you to stay. First he'll verbally berate you. Then he'll declare how he just can't live without you (he might even try to squeeze out a few tears). He'll try self pity. He'll threaten you. He'll claim you'll never survive without him. He'll say no one will ever want you but him. He may hit you. He may even threaten suicide. DO NOT FALL FOR IT. He wants to keep you for his own selfish needs, not because he cherishes you and wants to love you the way you deserve.

I truly hope you make a plan to leave him. Do not disclose your plan to him. Quietly plan to leave and if possible enlist the help of a friend. And please sign up for therapy. Support will be vital.

And whatever you do, do not "talk" to him to give him "one more chance". Do not suggest couples counseling as that does not work on abusers. Just quietly plan an escape. Lean on friends and family. They'll want to help you.

[Lambert]

you're making a huge mistake staying with this guy. 

He's never going to get better.  He's only going to get worse. What you accept is what you get. 

trust me on that.  these are the good times. once you are married it will escalate and imagine what this will do to your future kids. very sad.

People with anger issues should be avoided aka dumped, blocked, deleted. He's abusing you and gaslighting you so that you doubt your own opinion. It's a classic control technique.

Leave him now. You say you are at a loss. I say some losses are actually gains. 

[Wiseman2]

[DarkCh0c0]

3 hours ago, mikroula said:

he’s lovely with everyone else.

No he's not:

4 hours ago, mikroula said:

Actually he has in the past had complications with staff. He had high staff turnover as he tends to fall out with them and upset them

How he treats the staff and people who depend on him show you how trashy he is.

He uses and abuses any people that depend on him. So, it's NOT you. You and his staff are NOT the problem. He's the one being toxic and abusive towards YOU. Instead of being loving, generous, kind, and communicative, he uses you as a punching bag and trains you to think you caused whatever mood he's in.

3 hours ago, mikroula said:

I’m scared of not finding anyone after him. I’ve invested a lot in this relationship, moved to another city for him ( which I now love and would be happy to stay in, as I’ve made friends and have a nice little community) but I’m worried about the what after

Don't give in to your fears. You will do fantastic afterwards. You will move on. You will find love with a better match. Your sense of worth will come back to you. Your fiance is not "the one". He's charming on the outside, but you've learned with his actions the truth that he is a POS and bad bad news. The charming look is to trick others. It's like a nice store front he has to keep up, but the inside is a hell trap.

Please OP, listen to your inner voice that came here for help. Love yourself and leave this man behind 💚💚 You deserve better.

[Batya33]

You say you're afraid of being alone. I get that you made major changes for someone you weren't even married to.  But you're alone now.  You're not in a relationship that involves two people who care about each other.  It's a relationship in name/label only.  And you said he's not lovely to his coworkers, the people who work with him.  Many people who act this way know how to act in public.  When it suits them. So what? You're alone and worse than alone because he could turn on you physically, emotionally, financially.  

Yes, leave the ring behind and leave ASAP. I agree with all the others.

[Cherylyn]

No, it's not correct for him to use the engagement ring as a reminder how much he paid for it.  He's controlling you.  He is a classic manipulator. 

He's gaslighting you.  Gaslighting is changing the way you think into thinking there is actually something wrong with YOU and not him, the perpetrator.  Never fall for the old gaslighting trick.  No, he's not 'even' because he bought the ring.  Return the ring.  Don't owe him anything. 

He hates you working long hours?  Again, he's a control freak.  He doesn't want you to have any monetary power.  He wants to make you weak and dependent on him.  NEVER.  ALWAYS be a financially strong and independent woman because it's your only saving grace.  ALWAYS retain your economic power and never let it go! 

'Doing it for you and not for us,' once again is the old gaslighting tactic again.  He sounds like a broken record.  He thinks he can trick and outsmart you with his wordplay.  Never believe a word of his nor fall into his trap.  You need to dump him! 

[Jaunty]

You could be completely selfish, demanding, unsupportive, materialistic, and all kinds of other unpleasant things; it doesn't matter.  He is abusive.   That's not your fault or responsibility.

Your responsibility is to yourself, and the choices you make.

 

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, Jaunty said:

You could be completely selfish, demanding, unsupportive, materialistic, and all kinds of other unpleasant things; it doesn't matter.  He is abusive.   That's not your fault or responsibility.

Your responsibility is to yourself, and the choices you make.

 

She does not deserve abuse.  And it stood out to me that she engaged in this dynamic with him where he clearly did NOT want to drive her to the airport -and yet she pushed him on the point.  Why OP? Were you trying to sort of assert yourself and show him you weren't going to take no for an answer? Even the score? What made sense to you about being in a car to an airport -a time sensitive trip typically -with someone who clearly didn't want to drive you?

No you didn't deserve any abuse - but you also knew it wouldn't be a pleasant experience with someone who was dragged into it. Meaning not a time for you two to have a good conversation, spend some time together, etc.  You couldn't find another way?

It sounds like there's some unhealthy stuff on both sides -you tolerate his abuse but maybe you try to get back "power" by showing him he "has to" do these favors for you.  In my marriage I know my husband doesn't enjoy driving in traffic (I mean who does but he really hates it). 

But he does other things and always has.  So if I have to go somewhere which will involve him getting me to an appointment on time in traffic I do my best to get there by public transportation (we have one car; I have a license and do not drive right now), or figure it out with a friend and ask him as a very last resort.  Y

es many husbands chauffer their wives all over town so they don't have to walk/take an uber/public transport - and it's lovely and all but I never felt the need to have him prove to me that he takes care of me by asking him to do his least favorite thing or something he really does not want to do. 

Sometimes I have to -especially when it involves our son -but I choose that carefully and he sees that I do -he sees that I find other ways and that when it comes to getting my errands done -or even my covid vaccines -I default to walking, public transport (not even uber -I'm thrifty that way). 

He sees me trying to accommodate his dislike of such driving because we are a team and we do things for each other and trust that we care about each other.  I see you don't trust him and my sense is you pushed the issue of the airport. 

Separately he had NO RIGHT to agree and be abusive in the car.  He was entitled to say NO I'm not driving you - but once he said yes as I wrote above he didn't need to be warm and fuzzy -he could have just been neutrally silent/polite - but he was not entitled to express his frustration once he said yes.  

[Jaunty]

She certainly does not deserve abuse, nobody does.  That's a basic tenet that some victims of abuse and probably ALL abusers aren't on board with.   There is no way to "deserve" abuse.

Unfortunately, the OP, like so many people in abusive relationships, is participating in her own victimization by remaining and looking for "excuses" for his behavior.   

OP, the only answer is to shut off all of this talk about the details of various abusive situations with this man, and GET OUT.  I realize it's much, much easier said than done, but nothing is going to change as long as you remain.  

Take care.

[gamon]

People often show their true colors after they're married.

This probably isn't the worst of him.

 

[mikroula]

On 9/30/2022 at 2:11 PM, Batya33 said:

She does not deserve abuse.  And it stood out to me that she engaged in this dynamic with him where he clearly did NOT want to drive her to the airport -and yet she pushed him on the point.  Why OP? Were you trying to sort of assert yourself and show him you weren't going to take no for an answer? Even the score? What made sense to you about being in a car to an airport -a time sensitive trip typically -with someone who clearly didn't want to drive you?

No you didn't deserve any abuse - but you also knew it wouldn't be a pleasant experience with someone who was dragged into it. Meaning not a time for you two to have a good conversation, spend some time together, etc.  You couldn't find another way?

It sounds like there's some unhealthy stuff on both sides -you tolerate his abuse but maybe you try to get back "power" by showing him he "has to" do these favors for you.  In my marriage I know my husband doesn't enjoy driving in traffic (I mean who does but he really hates it). 

But he does other things and always has.  So if I have to go somewhere which will involve him getting me to an appointment on time in traffic I do my best to get there by public transportation (we have one car; I have a license and do not drive right now), or figure it out with a friend and ask him as a very last resort.  Y

es many husbands chauffer their wives all over town so they don't have to walk/take an uber/public transport - and it's lovely and all but I never felt the need to have him prove to me that he takes care of me by asking him to do his least favorite thing or something he really does not want to do. 

Sometimes I have to -especially when it involves our son -but I choose that carefully and he sees that I do -he sees that I find other ways and that when it comes to getting my errands done -or even my covid vaccines -I default to walking, public transport (not even uber -I'm thrifty that way). 

He sees me trying to accommodate his dislike of such driving because we are a team and we do things for each other and trust that we care about each other.  I see you don't trust him and my sense is you pushed the issue of the airport. 

Separately he had NO RIGHT to agree and be abusive in the car.  He was entitled to say NO I'm not driving you - but once he said yes as I wrote above he didn't need to be warm and fuzzy -he could have just been neutrally silent/polite - but he was not entitled to express his frustration once he said yes.  

The reason I pressed him to take me to the airport is because I have driven him from and to the airport in the past when he needed me to and never caused a fuss. I did it as well I thought that’s what you do for the person you love. You help them out when they need it! I have also driven him and picked him up on numerous from the train station or from the port when he needed me to. So, yes in  a sense it was my own sense of justice driving me as in why is it ok for you but not for me and the other was to save money. Why is it that when it’s not him spending money but me the rules change? 
 

also perhaps naively so I think it’s a nice thing to take partners and pick them up from places like airports etc… perhaps a romantic notion but it shows the other person cares, will miss you and is looking forward to meeting you when you come back

[Batya33]

15 minutes ago, mikroula said:

The reason I pressed him to take me to the airport is because I have driven him from and to the airport in the past when he needed me to and never caused a fuss. I did it as well I thought that’s what you do for the person you love. You help them out when they need it! I have also driven him and picked him up on numerous from the train station or from the port when he needed me to. So, yes in  a sense it was my own sense of justice driving me as in why is it ok for you but not for me and the other was to save money. Why is it that when it’s not him spending money but me the rules change? 
 

also perhaps naively so I think it’s a nice thing to take partners and pick them up from places like airports etc… perhaps a romantic notion but it shows the other person cares, will miss you and is looking forward to meeting you when you come back

So again. You are a victim of abuse. 

Separately -just sharing as an old married lady - acting on a sense of justice/principle/shoulds often doesn't work well in a one on one close relationship. It can come across as cold, strident, elevating your "cause" and "being right" over closeness. 

So - no -partners don't always pitch in on every single situation as a broad matter -depends on: the situation, the timing, the circumstances. 

It sounds like you were mostly keeping score and mostly resting on the shoulds aspects and "fairness".  Yes- if it was an emergency - of course - but you could have: taken uber/car service/combo of public transport and uber/asked a friend, etc- you didn't have to rush to the airport last minute did you? One time my husband -according to me- caused me to miss my plane.  The next flight meant he'd have to take me at 4am.  Yes, I insisted he did (we were not married yet) - he caused the issue but more than that I didn't want to be in a car service by myself in the middle of the night so there was a safety aspect.

My husband refused to come home early (because it would have costed over $1,000 most likely) when my son was getting over a stomach virus which I caught. I was in distress with a toddler and sick.  I was upset with him for not dropping everything and from his perspective he'd be home 12 hours later (felt like a darn eternity). 

On the other hand, he basically saved my life when I had a scary post-birth medical condition, he plans amazing travel for us, took care of horrendous paperwork last year for school applications, helped me learn to drive, and handles stressful situations I'm not as good at (think customer service/delivery issues, etc. 

I don't keep score -try hard not to -my friend who is single told me many years ago -don't go there with the "but I always do ____ for you so you should do ___ for me."  Wise advice.  Life isn't fair -a general sense of fairness in a marriage is important but not as a result of keeping score.  JMHO. 

Again he is an adult -if he felt that resentful about driving you and was concerned he'd overreact he should have simply said no he couldn't handle it. 

This morning I put my headphones in and turned up my radio program because my teenager was pushing my buttons.  I knew I'd feel like yelling.  I don't like feeling that way and I knew it was safe simply to walk away/tune him out. 

Result -he expressed frustration, I cleaned my kitchen and interacted with him after he was done expressing his frustration.  Family peace.  I would not do this to prevent abuse -at all -I am just suggesting that if you're in a relationship where you're resorting too much to justice/fairness/shoulds and keeping score it's a sign that your dynamic is unhealthy.  

[Lambert]

15 hours ago, Jaunty said:

She certainly does not deserve abuse, nobody does.  That's a basic tenet that some victims of abuse and probably ALL abusers aren't on board with.   There is no way to "deserve" abuse.

Unfortunately, the OP, like so many people in abusive relationships, is participating in her own victimization by remaining and looking for "excuses" for his behavior.   

OP, the only answer is to shut off all of this talk about the details of various abusive situations with this man, and GET OUT.  I realize it's much, much easier said than done, but nothing is going to change as long as you remain.  

Take care.

This ^^ gets to the crux of your situation OP. You're listing out a variety of instances of abuse trying to justify some as lovers' spats or differences in a healthy relationship.

Healthy relationships do have arguments, disagreements, sometimes it gets tense and hurtful with emotions. 

But what your describing: the name calling, the rage, the put downs are NOT part of a healthy relationship and ways to communicate. EVER

Your partner is damaged. He is damaging you.

The only thing you are doing wrong is staying with him.  You cannot change him. As the old saying goes, you can't make silk purse out of a sow's ear. 

GET OUT TODAY

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, mikroula said:

I thought that’s what you do for the person you love.

Why are you justifying all this nonsense here? Why explain all this over and over and over? He Dos Not Love you .. he abuses you. You have the ways and means to leave. Either this is some S&M game you two play voluntarily or it's abuse. Decide. People tried to help you with this already but you insist on staying when you don't have to:

https://www.enotalone.com/topic/449412-need-advice-should-i-break-this-off-before-its-too-late/#comment-5679282

 

[catfeeder]

On 9/29/2022 at 11:32 AM, mikroula said:

... he turns and says ‘I’m sorry are you going to break up with me?’ I said no and then he went on to blame me

Change your answer to 'yes,' and find a better BF.