pennywise1

Well said!

Four years consisting primarily of a long distace relationship. Add to that 16 months withot seeing each other. Kepng a relationship intact in those circumstances sounds impossible to me. But alas, your not me. Here are my thoughts. Lets not forget that this woman is your fiance and not your girlfirend. If she is ot aware of the difference, then you need to educate her on that. She has a right to go out with her friends, whether it be men or women. And no one is aware of that better than sh is. But it sounds like she has taken advantage of that situation perhaps. Maybe she really does have no intentions with these men, and maybe she is fully committed to you, but she knows now that her actions are upsetting to you. If her feelings for you are as strong for you as they should be as your fiance, then she should be wlling to forgo these weekely outings with men. She may not call them dates, but what do you think that the men she goes out with sees them as? She should be willing to make this sacrifice for you. the question is whether you will actually ask her to do that. You apparently have. I hope for your case that she does not feel your request unjust and complies with your wishes. Trust ca be a very powerful emotion. Your trust in each other is what has allowed you to make this long distance relationhip work over the years. It would be a shame if trust, or shall I say lack of, is what is ultimately responsible for breaking it apart. Just one more thing to consider. I am assuming that she is the one who tells you that she goes on these dates as opposed to you finding out through the grapevine through friends and such. If that is the case, and she really does have bad intentions or is not committed to you, why on earth would she tell you about them?

Ditto that. Some great points there. Going through the situation myself. Its SO hard. But it is the only healthy way to continue with life.

If you truly have a desire to learn more about cars and stuff, then why dont you just ask him to give you the basics, you know automobiles 101. He will be thrilled that you are interested and flattered at the same time.

R, I dont know if you have any other posts regarding this issue (if you do I have not read them), but with respect to this post, you definitely do NOT want to call her on Tuesday. Three days in a row? Thats not a good idea. You yourself said that she is most likely busy with work and school and all. You have made 2 calls and hopefully she got both of them. Although you never know with her brother. She may never have received that message. If thats the case, then she will get the one you left for her tonight. If she is working, then maybe she does not even get it until late tonight or tomorow morning. You have to be realistic and give her time to get back to you. Personally, after 2 calls in (2 days in a row), I would give her a week before I called her back again.

SUNSHINE: I am sorry to hear how badly you are hurting. Fact of the matter is that most people on this board are feeling pretty lousy themselves. I myself am heartbroken at the moment and as bad as I feel now I can tell you that it was worse a couple of weeks ago. He is obvioulsy going through something right now and pushing the issue now will only drive him further wawy from you and make matters worse. I agree with cookie in that you should give him some space and utilize this time apart to get yourself back on track. I myself find it very helpful to talk to family and friends about it. For me it is almost therapeudic. If you are uncomfortable talking with friends and family then please continue to do so here if you find it helpful. Be strong.

You have caught her in lies before, she hands up on you, she takes this guy to a party (which you know to be true) and then denies being with him, anf only admits that she was with him because you had someone on the inside. To say that there is an issue of trust here is an UNDERSTATEMENT. Had your friend not had been there, she would have lied and you would have never known. You are only aware of the lies where you caught her in the act. One wonders how many other times she has lied to you. You said that she has lost alot of friends on account of reasons that you are unaware of. Here is my guess. She likes to get her way and she USES people to accomplish that. Once her friends (men or woman) realize what she is all about, the blow her off, and rightly so. It sounds to me that she is treating you no better than anyone else. She is taking advantage of you and certainly doest not repspect you. To recap, she is dishonest, rude, and does not respect you. On top of that, she has met someone, during your relationship, and is spending enough time with him fo him to fall in love with her. So what should yo do? You said "I cant trust her and I dont like feeling this way". Relationships are founded on trust and respect and further are supposed to make you feel GOOD. She is providing you with none of these. As easy as it is for me to say, and as hard as it will be for you to do, it sounds like its time to move on. You deserve better.

Gilgamesh, I know what you are going through, and have asked myself some of those questions over the years. Over the last six months or so I was sure that I had found soulmate, but to despair, my relationship ended rather abruptly due to circumstances outside of my girlfriends an my control Although I still have hope for the future with her, I cant help but to begin asking those same questions again. I still can not believe how hard it has been on me. Visiting this website however has been very helpful though and although none of the posters can provide the intimacy that we both yearn for, they can provide some pretty great unbiased advice, which is something that our friends and family can not do. Just as cookies said, there are millions of people hurting just like you and I. ALthough I would not wish this pain on anyone, it has been comforting to know that there are others out there feeling equally as bad as I do and that I am not alone. As far as your questions go, I can not really help that much as I am searching for answers myself. Sisterlynch and cookies have offered some good advice though and I take some of it away with me even thogh they were responding to your post. Hope you dont mind. Lastly, as far as what you have to do to find your soulmate. I will tell you this, the best relationships that I have had were with woman that I met when I was NOT looking. I dont believe that we should just wait around for them to come a knocking at the door, but my experience at least tells me that there is some truth to that saying of if you look TOO hard you wont find her.

I personally would have a problem with her actions as well. There is nothing wrong with her having friends outside of your relationship. She obviuolsy had freids before she met you and know one would expect her to discontinue her friendship with them. Getting drinks and having dinner with friends is OK. Even having dinner with one of her guys friends would be OK as he may be her best friend of many years. However, this is not the case. She is hanging out with NEW guys friends and going over to their plave to hang. THAT is crossing the line if you are commited to eachother. She is acting like a single woman would act. You should address this situation with her immediately and find out how she views this relationship with you. Maybe she wants no commitment right now. That is her choice and you can do nothing about it. If that is the case, you then need to decide if you are comfortable with it. I myself cant say that I would be.

Captain, Based on past experiences I would not recommend getting involved with someone from work. Sure its great while it lasts, but when its over (not trying to be pesamistic here) it can be incredibly difficult. Even if it is not a bad breakup, it will still be tough. Once you become intimate with someone, and then its ends, you can not turn back the clock, things will always be different from that point forward. Plus, the most critical aspect in your situation is that you are her boss. Like I said, its a tough situation to be in cause you like her, but as a lawyer I would think that this decesion should be a no brainer for you. Sorry captain, if it were me I would not test the waters. You are a young guy probably just starting your first job, you have too much to loose. Pennywise

Thank you all for your advice on this matter. Things have become a little clearer over the last week. I am going to try and do everything I can to be there for her and support her in any way that I can. But at the same time I also dont want her to think that I do not respect her decision that the relationship is over and that I am hanging around and trying to convince her otherwise. I nned her to know that I am on the same page as she is. Gonna be tough I think on both of us to adjust to this new situation (friends not lovers) but I hope that we can make this work. Perhaps in the future we can continue the relationship as lovers and rekindle what we once had and cherished so much, despite its short lived nature. For those interested, I will keep you posted. Thank again everyone.

Agree with Gilgamesh. Another good move (if you want to call it that) is instead of placing your hand on her head, place it at her hip. If things go smoothly and you can tell that she is enjoying it you can then move your hand upwards on her side (not implying fondling here) halfway bewteen her hip and arm pit. Although that part of the body is not the most sensual, it is the first kiss and touch so it will certainly get her attention and be arousing for her. Placing your hand at her head can be a little too much for for some women for a first kiss. The hand on the side is a sure thing, believe me. Most importantly, be confident and whatever you do, DONT ASK. That takes away the spontaneity (Spelling as good as yours) of the whole kiss and ruins the whole thing. Good luck

I will pass on some advice that I just got a few minutes ago in a response to my thread. The advice was "Follow Your Heart". That pretty much says it all.

mermaid: Thank you for your response. There are several things that you mentioned that I thought a great deal about when trying to understand this situation. I know that I will NEVER be able to understand what she is going through from an emotional standpoint. It must be so exhausting for her. However, I have made every effort to gain an understanding of the grieving process in itself via the internet and books. One thing that I have learned is that there are numerous stages in the grieving process and that one must get through them all without skipping any. Further, sometimes you one step forward can often times lead to two steps back. I believe that subcontiously she may be trying to protect herself from another loss. Perhaps she believes that if she looses me (i am thinking breakup here not death) she will not be able to handle it. Then there is the guilt factor. She may feel guilty simply for being alive. Her father, her brother, her 2 friends, why was she spared. She was very happy when she was with me. Perhaps she feels guilt for being happy or that she has no right to be happy when her brother and father and friends have died so trajically. The last thing that I wonder is what type of an affect her mother is ahving on her. Her mother has lost everything but her daughter. Her daughter is all she has left. I hate speculating like this, but is it possible that her mother is not giving her good advice. The more time she spends with me the less time with her mother. Although, marriage weas never a topic of dicussion, maybe it WAS on her mothers mind. Maybe loosing her daughter, who is all she has left, is just too much for her. She may not be helping the situation. I know that it is unfair for me to make this claim but I am just speculating here. Then there is her deceased brothers girlfriend who is still very good friends with my girl. Who knows what type of an affect she has on my girl. Once again this is just speculation. For all I know, she may be having a positive affect on my girl. I had hoped that her mother and friends would help her realize that based on her feelings for me, that pushing me away is exactly what she should NOT be doing. But apparently that did not happen and alas she has pushed me away. I wonder if she and her mother andher deceased brothers girlfriend are stuck in this circle of grief. And that one can only heal as much as the others allow. Once again more speculation. Due to my education and career I have a very analytical mindset. I am at a point where my mind continues to break everything down to the last molecule. I know that it is not healhty for me to do this but i can not help it. There are just so many variables here to consider. Like I said in an earlier post, I hope she is handling this better than I am. She has enough on her plate as it is. Thank you all for your continuing advice and support. It has been very helpful. Almost therapudic.

Thanks cookie. Your words are helpful. It seems that everyone agrees, including myself, that if being her friend is all that she allows, then I need to be there for her. I know it is going be very hard. But perhaps after some time apart from eachother it will become easier. I think some people are questioning why take time apart from eachother. Fact of the matter is is that she is the one who has broken it off. Whether she is confused or not she believes this way is best. If I continue to contact her, she may get the impression that I do not respect her decision. I do not want her to think that I am implying that I know, better than she does, as to what is best to her. Plus, if a friendship is the only relationship that we can have for the time being, there is no doubt that makeing that transition without soem time off to reconcile what has happened, and prepare for what is ahead, will be vrey difficult for both of us, certainly me. My hope is that she will return to me before I contact her in a month or so. But, I feel that that may be an unrealistic hope, and that I would be just setting myself up for more pain. We must remember that she has walked on acount of not being ready and not for personal reasons. If that is the case, I should not expect that she will get over these wounds over night. I guess I need to prepare myself for the long haul. I miss her so much.

XEB, I am sorry but I have no advice for you. I can say however that I know what you are going through. See my post "Need advice for a unique and sad story". Just thought you would find some comfort knowing that there are people out there feeling the same way you do.

I guess my brain is taking a more realistic point of view on the subject than my heart. She has had several weeks to think about her decision. She really believes in her heart that she is not close to being ready and further has no idea as to when she will be ready. She as well as many friends say that based on this, that waiting for her would not be fair to myself and that I must move on with my life. And when she is ready, she may come back to me but until then I can not just hang around in this stupor that I find myself in at this hour. Nobody wants her back more than me and I recognize that she is the only person on earth that could instantly pull me out of this stupor. I have reinforced to her that she should not walk away feeling guilty for what she is putting me/us through. On the contrary, I have told her that she walk away feeling pretty good about herself as she is the only woman who has brought out these types of feelings and emotions. I thanked her for making realizee that I was capable of these emotions and capabale of loving. I feel incredibly fortunate that I was able to spend the time together that we did. I have no regrets, resentment or ill feelings towards her. I felt like it was very important tyhat she knmow that. I have made it very clear to her that she should never feel like I am unapproachable on account of what has happened. And that I hope that I will be the first to know when she has decided that she is ready for a seruious relationship. It the very least, though I want her in my life as a friend. I care for her too much to walk out of her life for good. But I also recognize that if I try to go from being her lover and companion to her friend without time away then I will never be able to make that transition without being hoplessly depressed every time I see her or talk or get an email from her. I will ba waiting around by the seat of my pants to hear those words fro her that she is ready. My thoughts are, as painfull as it is, cut off all ties from her for a while. No contact whatsoever. To let go and begin to heal. I hope that in time maybe 1 or 2 months that I will feel strong enough to call her as a friend and begin a new relationship with her as a friend. I never will forget her nor do I want to or her to forget me. Maybe by me supporting her and being there for her as a friend after so much pain, will increase our chances of getting back together. However, other people have said that I once I become her friend that it will greatly diminsh our chances of getting back together. That I would be better off maybe contacting her after a month or 2 and just touching base with her from time to time to remind her that I am still in her life. One thing that I do know and believe that she wouod agree is that we both need some time apart to allow for these feelings and emotions and pain to diminsih before we try to become friends. It would just be too painful otherwise. I have not seen her or spoke to her in a week and it is killing me. I want nothing more than a phone call from her saying that she wants to get back with me. But I must force myself to remember that this is not an issue of want for her and never has been. She needs to be ready and get through this grieving period. On acount of what she has been through and what she has walked away from I realize that it will probably not be for quite some time. There is a chance that she gets through this and is ready before I have been able to let go and begin to look for other relationships. I also realize that she may soemday call on me and that I will have begun another relationship. This situation is terribly complicated. Any more thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the advice guys. This situations continues to destroy me. I now find myself overanalyzing everything and doubting whether I did or said the right things. I know that I did everything I could to be supportive and make this work, and she reinforced that, but my mind continues to play games with me. My heart and my brain continue to battle one another. My brain tells me to accept the breakup, begin the healing process and try to move on, but my heart still says fight, fight fight. I still find myself every morning at work starting up my computer and hoping I will have an email awaiting me like I always did, even though we had agreed to cut all ties. Everytime my phone rings, I think for a second that it could be her. But it never is. I miss her so much and wonder how she is doing. But I can not call or email her, as I know it will makes things harder. Although I can not imagine it being much worse than it is now. I hope for her sake she is handling this better than I am. She deserves to be happy.

I could really use some advice here. I must warn you though, this one is pretty sad. My girlfriend and are madly in love and are in involved in a relationship that has been as close to perfect on all accounts. We hit it off immediately, and have not only become great lovers but great friends. I tell you it was like something out of a movie it was so good. We broke up a less than a week ago, primarily due to circumstances out of our control and are both devastated and heartbroken. Why did you breakup you ask? My girlfriend or exgirlfriend (25 years old) has been subjected to some horrific trajedies in her life. Growing up with only her immediate family, father , mother and older brother, she has no living relatives on the east coast and her grandparents when she was and infant and has no memory of them. When she was 10 years old her father died of a heart attack. her older brother then became her only father figure in her life. On Sept. 11 01 she lost two of her best friends at the WTC terrorist attacks. Two months later her brother was trajically killed in a motorcycle accident. She is left only now with her mom who is a widow and hast just lost her only son. My girl has lost her father, her two best friends and her older brother. You can only imagine what this girl has gone through. It is one of the most trajic stories that I have ever heard. As expected, she is still grieving for her losses. She primarily grieves on her own, never letting it affect her work or her relationship with me. She truly is one of the strongest people I know. I have so much admiration and love for her. We both fell hard for eachother and the relationship progressed rather quickly. We were so happy together. After around 5 months, out of nowhere she informed me of her concerns that she was unsure if she was ready or capable of continuing a relationship of this magnitude. Her grieving consumes her and she feels like she no longer has was it takes from an emotional standpoint to continue with a relationship that will only require more and more emotions. She thought she was ready for a relationship (with respect to the grieving) but unfortunately for the both of us she was mistaken. We tried seing less of each other and that did not work. It was all or nothing for both of us and she could not do all. We have broken up. She does not know how long it will take for her to get through this grieving process. Becasue she cares for me so much, she will not allow me to wait for her because her future (as far as being ready) is so unknown. It may take years for her to get over these trajedies. Lord knows it would take me years. The reltionship has ended on the best of terms. The relationship itself could not have been better for either of us. We both walk away with broken hearts and wanting nothing more than to be together. It is the worst situation I could ever imagine. I took it so heard that she had to give me advice on how to grieve and get over her and grieving is the precise thing that has split us apart. We have talked at length. There are few in the world that could even fathom what she is and has going through. No she grieves for my loss as well. I suggested therapy, even to go with her but she put up a brick wall. She andher mother had gone at some point and had a terrible experinece and will never go back. Her best friend is her deceased brothers girlfriend. Recently, her coworkers father died and she had to go the wake and funeral to support her friend. The poor girl has been surrounded by so much death at so young an age. Seeeing eachother as friends and not lovers is more than we can bare. We have come to the ever so painful conclusion to cut all ties. Two people that love eachother, involved in the best relationship of our lives, and we have walked away. She is the only woman that I have loved. I feel as though it will take an eternity to let her go and get over her. I have hope that maybe in the future she will call on me when she feels like she is ready. I hope that in time, at the very least, we can become friends but also know how hard that will be. I care so much for her that I feel that I must make that work. To summarize, this is not an issue of want for her. She wants to be with me. She is just not ready. Just like I am not ready for a relationship while I grieve for her now. She has suffered so much more loss than me. i obviously want nothing more than to be with her. I am unsure as to how I should handle the situation from here. I am sure it will be months from now before i will feel ready to initate contact and begin our new relationship as friends. Do you think that being her friend will increase or decrease the liklihood of getting back with her. Like I said, this is not one of those situations where you give them space and then they come running back. She recognizes more than anyone what she has lost in me. Or should I try to move on with my life, with the thought that maybe one day she will call when she is ready. Who knows where I will be at that point as far as relationships go. I am so confused and heartbroken. Any advice would help. Thanks Should I call on her when I feel like I will be able to possible be her friend whenever that may be. O