pennywise1

Well said!

Four years consisting primarily of a long distace relationship. Add to that 16 months withot seeing each other. Kepng a relationship intact in those circumstances sounds impossible to me. But alas, your not me. Here are my thoughts. Lets not forget that this woman is your fiance and not your girlfirend. If she is ot aware of the difference, then you need to educate her on that. She has a right to go out with her friends, whether it be men or women. And no one is aware of that better than sh is. But it sounds like she has taken advantage of that situation perhaps. Maybe she really does have no intentions with these men, and maybe she is fully committed to you, but she knows now that her actions are upsetting to you. If her feelings for you are as strong for you as they should be as your fiance, then she should be wlling to forgo these weekely outings with men. She may not call them dates, but what do you think that the men she goes out with sees them as? She should be willing to make this sacrifice for you. the question is whether you will actually ask her to do that. You apparently have. I hope for your case that she does not feel your request unjust and complies with your wishes. Trust ca be a very powerful emotion. Your trust in each other is what has allowed you to make this long distance relationhip work over the years. It would be a shame if trust, or shall I say lack of, is what is ultimately responsible for breaking it apart. Just one more thing to consider. I am assuming that she is the one who tells you that she goes on these dates as opposed to you finding out through the grapevine through friends and such. If that is the case, and she really does have bad intentions or is not committed to you, why on earth would she tell you about them?

Ditto that. Some great points there. Going through the situation myself. Its SO hard. But it is the only healthy way to continue with life.

If you truly have a desire to learn more about cars and stuff, then why dont you just ask him to give you the basics, you know automobiles 101. He will be thrilled that you are interested and flattered at the same time.

R, I dont know if you have any other posts regarding this issue (if you do I have not read them), but with respect to this post, you definitely do NOT want to call her on Tuesday. Three days in a row? Thats not a good idea. You yourself said that she is most likely busy with work and school and all. You have made 2 calls and hopefully she got both of them. Although you never know with her brother. She may never have received that message. If thats the case, then she will get the one you left for her tonight. If she is working, then maybe she does not even get it until late tonight or tomorow morning. You have to be realistic and give her time to get back to you. Personally, after 2 calls in (2 days in a row), I would give her a week before I called her back again.

SUNSHINE: I am sorry to hear how badly you are hurting. Fact of the matter is that most people on this board are feeling pretty lousy themselves. I myself am heartbroken at the moment and as bad as I feel now I can tell you that it was worse a couple of weeks ago. He is obvioulsy going through something right now and pushing the issue now will only drive him further wawy from you and make matters worse. I agree with cookie in that you should give him some space and utilize this time apart to get yourself back on track. I myself find it very helpful to talk to family and friends about it. For me it is almost therapeudic. If you are uncomfortable talking with friends and family then please continue to do so here if you find it helpful. Be strong.

You have caught her in lies before, she hands up on you, she takes this guy to a party (which you know to be true) and then denies being with him, anf only admits that she was with him because you had someone on the inside. To say that there is an issue of trust here is an UNDERSTATEMENT. Had your friend not had been there, she would have lied and you would have never known. You are only aware of the lies where you caught her in the act. One wonders how many other times she has lied to you. You said that she has lost alot of friends on account of reasons that you are unaware of. Here is my guess. She likes to get her way and she USES people to accomplish that. Once her friends (men or woman) realize what she is all about, the blow her off, and rightly so. It sounds to me that she is treating you no better than anyone else. She is taking advantage of you and certainly doest not repspect you. To recap, she is dishonest, rude, and does not respect you. On top of that, she has met someone, during your relationship, and is spending enough time with him fo him to fall in love with her. So what should yo do? You said "I cant trust her and I dont like feeling this way". Relationships are founded on trust and respect and further are supposed to make you feel GOOD. She is providing you with none of these. As easy as it is for me to say, and as hard as it will be for you to do, it sounds like its time to move on. You deserve better.

Gilgamesh, I know what you are going through, and have asked myself some of those questions over the years. Over the last six months or so I was sure that I had found soulmate, but to despair, my relationship ended rather abruptly due to circumstances outside of my girlfriends an my control Although I still have hope for the future with her, I cant help but to begin asking those same questions again. I still can not believe how hard it has been on me. Visiting this website however has been very helpful though and although none of the posters can provide the intimacy that we both yearn for, they can provide some pretty great unbiased advice, which is something that our friends and family can not do. Just as cookies said, there are millions of people hurting just like you and I. ALthough I would not wish this pain on anyone, it has been comforting to know that there are others out there feeling equally as bad as I do and that I am not alone. As far as your questions go, I can not really help that much as I am searching for answers myself. Sisterlynch and cookies have offered some good advice though and I take some of it away with me even thogh they were responding to your post. Hope you dont mind. Lastly, as far as what you have to do to find your soulmate. I will tell you this, the best relationships that I have had were with woman that I met when I was NOT looking. I dont believe that we should just wait around for them to come a knocking at the door, but my experience at least tells me that there is some truth to that saying of if you look TOO hard you wont find her.

I personally would have a problem with her actions as well. There is nothing wrong with her having friends outside of your relationship. She obviuolsy had freids before she met you and know one would expect her to discontinue her friendship with them. Getting drinks and having dinner with friends is OK. Even having dinner with one of her guys friends would be OK as he may be her best friend of many years. However, this is not the case. She is hanging out with NEW guys friends and going over to their plave to hang. THAT is crossing the line if you are commited to eachother. She is acting like a single woman would act. You should address this situation with her immediately and find out how she views this relationship with you. Maybe she wants no commitment right now. That is her choice and you can do nothing about it. If that is the case, you then need to decide if you are comfortable with it. I myself cant say that I would be.

Captain, Based on past experiences I would not recommend getting involved with someone from work. Sure its great while it lasts, but when its over (not trying to be pesamistic here) it can be incredibly difficult. Even if it is not a bad breakup, it will still be tough. Once you become intimate with someone, and then its ends, you can not turn back the clock, things will always be different from that point forward. Plus, the most critical aspect in your situation is that you are her boss. Like I said, its a tough situation to be in cause you like her, but as a lawyer I would think that this decesion should be a no brainer for you. Sorry captain, if it were me I would not test the waters. You are a young guy probably just starting your first job, you have too much to loose. Pennywise

Thank you all for your advice on this matter. Things have become a little clearer over the last week. I am going to try and do everything I can to be there for her and support her in any way that I can. But at the same time I also dont want her to think that I do not respect her decision that the relationship is over and that I am hanging around and trying to convince her otherwise. I nned her to know that I am on the same page as she is. Gonna be tough I think on both of us to adjust to this new situation (friends not lovers) but I hope that we can make this work. Perhaps in the future we can continue the relationship as lovers and rekindle what we once had and cherished so much, despite its short lived nature. For those interested, I will keep you posted. Thank again everyone.

Agree with Gilgamesh. Another good move (if you want to call it that) is instead of placing your hand on her head, place it at her hip. If things go smoothly and you can tell that she is enjoying it you can then move your hand upwards on her side (not implying fondling here) halfway bewteen her hip and arm pit. Although that part of the body is not the most sensual, it is the first kiss and touch so it will certainly get her attention and be arousing for her. Placing your hand at her head can be a little too much for for some women for a first kiss. The hand on the side is a sure thing, believe me. Most importantly, be confident and whatever you do, DONT ASK. That takes away the spontaneity (Spelling as good as yours) of the whole kiss and ruins the whole thing. Good luck

I will pass on some advice that I just got a few minutes ago in a response to my thread. The advice was "Follow Your Heart". That pretty much says it all.

mermaid: Thank you for your response. There are several things that you mentioned that I thought a great deal about when trying to understand this situation. I know that I will NEVER be able to understand what she is going through from an emotional standpoint. It must be so exhausting for her. However, I have made every effort to gain an understanding of the grieving process in itself via the internet and books. One thing that I have learned is that there are numerous stages in the grieving process and that one must get through them all without skipping any. Further, sometimes you one step forward can often times lead to two steps back. I believe that subcontiously she may be trying to protect herself from another loss. Perhaps she believes that if she looses me (i am thinking breakup here not death) she will not be able to handle it. Then there is the guilt factor. She may feel guilty simply for being alive. Her father, her brother, her 2 friends, why was she spared. She was very happy when she was with me. Perhaps she feels guilt for being happy or that she has no right to be happy when her brother and father and friends have died so trajically. The last thing that I wonder is what type of an affect her mother is ahving on her. Her mother has lost everything but her daughter. Her daughter is all she has left. I hate speculating like this, but is it possible that her mother is not giving her good advice. The more time she spends with me the less time with her mother. Although, marriage weas never a topic of dicussion, maybe it WAS on her mothers mind. Maybe loosing her daughter, who is all she has left, is just too much for her. She may not be helping the situation. I know that it is unfair for me to make this claim but I am just speculating here. Then there is her deceased brothers girlfriend who is still very good friends with my girl. Who knows what type of an affect she has on my girl. Once again this is just speculation. For all I know, she may be having a positive affect on my girl. I had hoped that her mother and friends would help her realize that based on her feelings for me, that pushing me away is exactly what she should NOT be doing. But apparently that did not happen and alas she has pushed me away. I wonder if she and her mother andher deceased brothers girlfriend are stuck in this circle of grief. And that one can only heal as much as the others allow. Once again more speculation. Due to my education and career I have a very analytical mindset. I am at a point where my mind continues to break everything down to the last molecule. I know that it is not healhty for me to do this but i can not help it. There are just so many variables here to consider. Like I said in an earlier post, I hope she is handling this better than I am. She has enough on her plate as it is. Thank you all for your continuing advice and support. It has been very helpful. Almost therapudic.

Thanks cookie. Your words are helpful. It seems that everyone agrees, including myself, that if being her friend is all that she allows, then I need to be there for her. I know it is going be very hard. But perhaps after some time apart from eachother it will become easier. I think some people are questioning why take time apart from eachother. Fact of the matter is is that she is the one who has broken it off. Whether she is confused or not she believes this way is best. If I continue to contact her, she may get the impression that I do not respect her decision. I do not want her to think that I am implying that I know, better than she does, as to what is best to her. Plus, if a friendship is the only relationship that we can have for the time being, there is no doubt that makeing that transition without soem time off to reconcile what has happened, and prepare for what is ahead, will be vrey difficult for both of us, certainly me. My hope is that she will return to me before I contact her in a month or so. But, I feel that that may be an unrealistic hope, and that I would be just setting myself up for more pain. We must remember that she has walked on acount of not being ready and not for personal reasons. If that is the case, I should not expect that she will get over these wounds over night. I guess I need to prepare myself for the long haul. I miss her so much.