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Thread: Lies

  1. #71
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    Originally Posted by yatsue
    They were unrealistic, which I didn't see at the time. I can pin a lot of it due to inexperience by undermining the complexity of such an arrangement. His lie really does seem unintentional and was bound to happen, which in a sense makes me feel better. Thank you.
    I don't think it was unintentional or bound to happen. He lied -I just see some gray areas.

    Really? Inexperience? You just finished saying you were a microbiologist and are experienced about the risks. As a practical matter you gave him a free pass to have sex with other women and you. It's not "complex" other than on a practical level. But on a practical level you know as you said what the risks are, you were under a doctor's care, etc. I think you chose to be naive/blind because the benefits outweighed the risks -the benefits were you didn't have to be as vulnerable to him and ask him to pick only you, you got to have the option of hooking up and having sex with other men, etc. (I mean you couldn't really do that and ask him to abstain, right -but I bet part of you hoped he wouldn't take you up on the free pass to have sex with other women)

    I think the unrealistic part was expecting him to know all the ins and outs (pun intended) about STDs and timing and risks without spelling it out and unrealistic to think that you could have an arrangement where you got to be "serious" emotionally and casual about sex -that's a rare combination and one that can work in certain polyamorous relationships -and from what I know those do require a certain type of person and a lot of rules.

    So yes in one way complex - but I wouldn't go for the "it's my inexperience" - it was a choice because having those discussions about private parts and sexual activity and risks and STDs is kind of dull and kind of awkward and you wanted him to want you and be excited about you -as you said he wasn't just a sex buddy.

  2. #72
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    I'm trying to figure out what an "unintentional lie" is.

    A lie by its very definition is intentional. Unless it's something like "Did Bob come to work today?" and you answer "No, I don't think he did" because you didn't know Bob came in an hour early and was already in his office.

    His lie happened because he thought it would make him look better or would make you less mad at him or would make what he did look less bad. Absolutely intentional. Now, the consequences of that lie, maybe he didn't think that through well enough, but I don't buy that a grown man in this day and age wouldn't think you'd be concerned with your own sexual health. He did know, hence the lie.

    I too would have a problem with an adult using lying as a way to get out of an argument.

  3. #73
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    Originally Posted by boltnrun
    I'm trying to figure out what an "unintentional lie" is.

    A lie by its very definition is intentional. Unless it's something like "Did Bob come to work today?" and you answer "No, I don't think he did" because you didn't know Bob came in an hour early and was already in his office.

    His lie happened because he thought it would make him look better or would make you less mad at him or would make what he did look less bad. Absolutely intentional. Now, the consequences of that lie, maybe he didn't think that through well enough, but I don't buy that a grown man in this day and age wouldn't think you'd be concerned with your own sexual health. He did know, hence the lie.

    I too would have a problem with an adult using lying as a way to get out of an argument.
    I don't think it was unintentional. I think part of it was a lie and part of it may have been from confusion. I cannot tell completely.

  4. #74
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    According to the OP, he lied about timeframes and then avoided answering relevant questions. And he excused himself by saying OP makes him "nervous".

    I would have a big problem with an adult who tries to resolve conflicts by lying and then making excuses for their lies.

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  6. #75
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    Originally Posted by boltnrun
    According to the OP, he lied about timeframes and then avoided answering relevant questions. And he excused himself by saying OP makes him "nervous".

    I would have a big problem with an adult who tries to resolve conflicts by lying and then making excuses for their lies.
    Yes, I agree -I had hesitated because I got lost in the details. I never thought it was unintentional. I was a little confused about what he precisely promised to be truthful about.

  7. #76
    Platinum Member figureitout23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Batya33
    Yes, I agree -I had hesitated because I got lost in the details. I never thought it was unintentional. I was a little confused about what he precisely promised to be truthful about.
    If Im completely honest, would I lie too in this situation....depending on how much I cared...maybe...I'd be incredibly pissed, thats for sure. You dont get to OK our situationship, then hold me to unspoken standards and berate me to answer you. I get why he did what he did. Right or wrong, I get it.

    The uncomfortable truth I think was clearly laid out by Bat:

    Originally Posted by Batya33
    I don't think it was unintentional or bound to happen. He lied -I just see some gray areas.

    Really? Inexperience? You just finished saying you were a microbiologist and are experienced about the risks. As a practical matter you gave him a free pass to have sex with other women and you. It's not "complex" other than on a practical level. But on a practical level you know as you said what the risks are, you were under a doctor's care, etc. I think you chose to be naive/blind because the benefits outweighed the risks -the benefits were you didn't have to be as vulnerable to him and ask him to pick only you, you got to have the option of hooking up and having sex with other men, etc. (I mean you couldn't really do that and ask him to abstain, right -but I bet part of you hoped he wouldn't take you up on the free pass to have sex with other women)

    I think the unrealistic part was expecting him to know all the ins and outs (pun intended) about STDs and timing and risks without spelling it out and unrealistic to think that you could have an arrangement where you got to be "serious" emotionally and casual about sex -that's a rare combination and one that can work in certain polyamorous relationships -and from what I know those do require a certain type of person and a lot of rules.

    So yes in one way complex - but I wouldn't go for the "it's my inexperience" - it was a choice because having those discussions about private parts and sexual activity and risks and STDs is kind of dull and kind of awkward and you wanted him to want you and be excited about you -as you said he wasn't just a sex buddy.
    Its the only thing that makes logical sense, so this is what im going with...

    Originally Posted by yatsue

    However, just because it is a riskier lifestyle, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to minimize your risk. I learned from my work and education, that if you have sexual contact with a person, then there is always a risk. Unless if you two are virgins, there is a risk for contracting STDs. After that, there is only limiting the risk level. The only way to have sexual safety with someone who isn't a virgin is to either establish exclusivity (given they don't cheat), be celibate with them for at least 6 months, and have them perform an STD panel multiple times (with negative results) or have them already done this 6 months prior. Even then, you cannot be tested for everything (some are even intentionally excluded such as herpes), and I see a fair share of human error than testing agencies would like to admit (hence doing it multiple times). Additionally, paperwork on what/when tests were performed are more reliable than verbal communications about one's status. Anything deviating from this, people are deluding themselves into thinking they've achieved sexual safety while having sex with a person. The thing is, this unfortunately just isn't very realistic.

    I do accept there are risks anytime I have sexual relations with a person, but it doesn't sit well with me at all if I suffer consequences that were preventable by telling the truth in the first place. At the very least, in the context of a relationship I should be given that. The lifestyle is risky in the first place and I could have received anything at anytime unknowingly, in which the detail is at a glance minimal in the grand scheme. However, the key to minimizing risks is knowing what/when to prevent it before it does damage. To go in blind doesn't make sense either.
    Yatsue...one minute you know full well the risks and want to minimize them while also wanting to explore poly relations....with no ground rules...come on...you have no leg to stand on... you pointed out the 6 month inclubation period, true or not Im not sure...youve been dating 5 months...so by those standards, youre right,he could have given you something, your words so again your hyper focus on this 'betrayal' of lying about the timing makes even less sense based on your own words....

    Im putting 'betrayal' because at the end of the day, you two had no ground rules when this happened as bat said you just hoped he wasnt.

    We all lie, whether its a fib or flat out blatant dishonesty, we've all done it and we've all experienced consequences for those lies.

    I feel you're viewing his lie at a 10 because of feelings bigger than what the actual lie was about.

    If youre to move past this, you have to accept and embrace your feelings. If the trust is lost its lost, if theres hope theres hope, at the end of the day, only you can decide.be honest with yourself... can you both move forward in clarity? If so and the desire is there, go for it. Both being open and honest going forward.
    Last edited by figureitout23; 06-25-2019 at 10:07 PM.

  8. #77
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    Originally Posted by Batya33
    I don't think it was unintentional or bound to happen. He lied -I just see some gray areas.

    Really? Inexperience? You just finished saying you were a microbiologist and are experienced about the risks. As a practical matter you gave him a free pass to have sex with other women and you. It's not "complex" other than on a practical level. But on a practical level you know as you said what the risks are, you were under a doctor's care, etc. I think you chose to be naive/blind because the benefits outweighed the risks -the benefits were you didn't have to be as vulnerable to him and ask him to pick only you, you got to have the option of hooking up and having sex with other men, etc. (I mean you couldn't really do that and ask him to abstain, right -but I bet part of you hoped he wouldn't take you up on the free pass to have sex with other women)

    I think the unrealistic part was expecting him to know all the ins and outs (pun intended) about STDs and timing and risks without spelling it out and unrealistic to think that you could have an arrangement where you got to be "serious" emotionally and casual about sex -that's a rare combination and one that can work in certain polyamorous relationships -and from what I know those do require a certain type of person and a lot of rules.

    So yes in one way complex - but I wouldn't go for the "it's my inexperience" - it was a choice because having those discussions about private parts and sexual activity and risks and STDs is kind of dull and kind of awkward and you wanted him to want you and be excited about you -as you said he wasn't just a sex buddy.
    I was referencing my inexperience in being in no open relationships previously, not about my line of work (that part I know). How to implement a successful open relationship, I don't know, which I contribute as part of why it failed. I use complex as such an arrangement is more complex than a monogamous one. I knew he already wanted me and has been excited about me, regardless of what kind of relationship I wanted. He said he just wanted to be with me and to continue seeing him in any capacity.

  9. #78
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    Originally Posted by yatsue
    I was referencing my inexperience in being in no open relationships previously, not about my line of work (that part I know). How to implement a successful open relationship, I don't know, which I contribute as part of why it failed. I use complex as such an arrangement is more complex than a monogamous one. I knew he already wanted me and has been excited about me, regardless of what kind of relationship I wanted. He said he just wanted to be with me and to continue seeing him in any capacity.
    But all that matters here is the part where you two increased the risk of STDs -that's not unique to an "open relationship" - that's true of a variety of arrangements where people have sex with each other and also others. You're expanding this to the emotional part for some reason when the real issue here is you believe he lied and therefore exposed you to increased health risks. By expanding it seems to me you're trying to justify overall "inexperience".

    Obviously his lie hurt your feelings too - most lies do, right? But that also has nothing to do with an "open relationship" in particular. Lies can happen in friendships, romantic relationships, at work.

    Now if the issue is that you're not sure if he lied because you may have misled him as to what the ground rules are, again the only rules that matter here are the ones about sexual intercourse and other sexually risky behavior. You want to cling to the idea that this was a serious, committed relationship -and it may have been - but clinging to that aspect in this situation makes little sense. Kind of like your work experience -do you really let emotions get involved in studying risks of disease and infection, etc?

    Here's an example - my married friend discovered in the process of separating from her husband that he had a gambling addiction and basically drained a lot of their savings plus their children's college accounts. Of course she was emotionally hurt from what he did but for the sake of herself and her children she focused as much as possible on the legal, financial and practical aspects of what to do to do damage control and decrease the risk of future financial ruin. I suggest you do the same and if it means accepting that he wasn't as serious about you or committed to you because he prioritized the multiple sex partners over his feelings for you then you will deal with that when the time comes. And that won't mean you're inexperienced about open relationships -it would just be a basic "he's just not that into you".

    I'll add that the majority of the time, a person who agrees to the arrangement you had likely doesn't see future potential for being in love or growing that love - obviously there are exceptions because I know of people in polyamorous relationships who claim to have that level of emotion and commitment - and sure why not - there are always exceptions - but I don't think either of you were as serious or committed when you agreed to the sexual arrangement and you ended up getting attached. He got more attached to the fun of having sex with lots of people.
    Last edited by Batya33; 06-26-2019 at 08:59 AM.

  10. #79
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    Originally Posted by Batya33
    but I don't think either of you were as serious or committed when you agreed to the sexual arrangement and you ended up getting attached. He got more attached to the fun of having sex with lots of people.
    This.

    And I think this is where the lie is a thorn. Like FiO, I don't think any of this has to do with STDs, which are the mouse that makes everyone uneasy. If that mouse was of tantamount concern, this whole arrangement would never have happened. It's easy to choose to focus on that now—because it's serious, concrete—but there is simply no way that's the sticking point.

    Personally, I think you're uneasy because, for you, this open arrangement was a test, an experiment: if you two could make this work, then you could be serious. What did "working" look like? I think, on some level, it looked like what most people truly want inside an open relationship, which is (cue brain explosion emoji) actually monogamy. It is having the option, but not taking it, because you don't want it, and affirming the seriousness and commitment. Second to that, it is some kind of radical honesty and openness, where the hardest matters on the planet are talked about with ease—and in seeing that you can achieve that you affirm the singularity of the bond.

    You got neither of those, and it stings, unsettles. You got, as Batya said, a guy who grabbed the hall pass, had some fun, was vague about it. A guy who was casually dating you. Kind of goes back to what I'm saying about "levels." For all the murkiness here, for all the clumsiness of the rules, I actually don't think it's too much to ask for a dude who, well, continued to either be (a) only interested in you despite the open door or (b) who was completely straightforward with you about how he handled the open door. He was neither. I see you doing a lot of gymnastics right now to rationalize that—and there is some room for that, to say nothing of the fact that there is always room for forgiveness and acceptance—but you have to be honest with yourself about the source of the sting.

  11. #80
    Platinum Member figureitout23's Avatar
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    Wow very beautifully said the both of you...

    I have nothing to add but I am curious about one thing.

    yatsue you had a sexual expierience with a guy, you took his virginity unknowingly and you wrote about him at the end of March which would have been smack dab in the middle of you and this guys open relationship. You obviously did nothing wrong given the agreement, even if this was after the gf/bf label was given since neither of you discussed exclusivity until after this particular woman. My question is what was his reaction? Did you tell him or was there no need to given your agreement? If you did tell him, how different was his reaction va yours.

    Also something I was a bit curious about. How did you know the woman he slept with had STDs? Again people don’t walk around with signs around their necks, do you know her? Did he know of her status before sleeping with her? Did she tell him after and if so in what capacity? Did she tell him due to the fact that they’re seeing each other at least semi regularly? I can’t imagibe a one night stand would hide their status until after they slept with someone and then came clean on their own fruition, so what’s the story behind all that?

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