Help us define dating and having an affair

[RobertoPDX]

TLDR: Can you help my partner and I define what constitutes “dating” and/or having an affair?

My partner is someone who has always used cheating as a way out of relationships.  We hit a rough patch and she almost did the same thing to me- she had a crush on her supervisor at work who definitely reciprocated those feelings and They started hanging out, texting, talking, flirting..  She invited me out with them a few times (I suspect she either likes the energy dynamic of two guys who are into her at the table together or she was trying to show me I didn’t need to worry about him) and I picked up on the vibe but wasn’t worried.  I’ve never been the jealous type and always trusted her.

The trouble started when she lied to Me about going to his house for a massage.  I caught her and she came clean.  She said she almost cheated on me but stopped herself.  After that they continued to hang out one on one behind my back.  They’d go for walks together, out for dinner and drinks, hiking, etc.  she confided in him about our marriage problems and they talked about his sex life.  She showed me text messages of him “struggling to keep his messages appropriate”, talking about how good the hug and back rubbing felt, how his jacket smells like her perfume.

When this all came to light I was pretty upset.  I feel like this was an affair even if they didn’t have sex.  My wife is insistent it wasn’t an affair and they weren’t going on dates because these are all things that she does or would do with her other single male friends and that all of those guys would have sex with her if she let them so the crush part doesn’t matter either.  I confronted the guy, chewed him out and told him exactly what I think of him.  He sat back and took it then later complained to my wife about how I spoke to him.

I know it’s petty, but can I get a judgement call here?  Was this an affair?  Were they dating for those few weeks?

She’s told me that she doesn’t have a crush on him anymore and they still hang out 1 on 1, but now she will tell me when they do.  I don’t like it but she’s not someone to care what I think or feel as long as she believes what she’s doing isn’t wrong.

[Seraphim]

It’s an affair. 1000%. You are being used as a mook. 

[boltnrun]

She wants to keep the affair going so she's lying to you about it. 

[Capricorn3]

55 minutes ago, RobertoPDX said:

My partner is someone who has always used cheating as a way out of relationships.  We hit a rough patch and she almost did the same thing to me-

How long have you been married?  Has she indicated to you that she "wants out" of the marriage?

Sounds to me like she's messing around.

[RobertoPDX]

23 minutes ago, Capricorn3 said:

How long have you been married?  Has she indicated to you that she "wants out" of the marriage?

Sounds to me like she's messing around.

We’ve been together for 6 years, married for 4.  Things we’re really had for a while, we were both ready to give up and leave.  I was more insistent on trying to make things work and to her credit she agreed and things have been slowly getting stronger.

 

It’s been hard for me to forgive her  and reconcile this one issue (and I really want to) because she doesn’t think she cheated, doesn’t think they were dating. 

[RobertoPDX]

37 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

She wants to keep the affair going so she's lying to you about it. 

Name checks out haha

[Wiseman2]

9 minutes ago, RobertoPDX said:

  Things were really bad for a while, we were both ready to give up and leave . she doesn’t think she cheated, doesn’t think they were dating. 

Sorry this happened. What exactly do you mean by "things were bad for a while"? Were you separated or both having affairs? 

Things still sound pretty awful. I'm not sure why the term "dating" is being applied here. When did all this happen? 

It seems like you know it's obvious they're having an affair so the question is do you want an open relationship, cuckold fantasy or a divorce? 

It's also unclear why you two apparently need a definition of "dating". 

[RobertoPDX]

36 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this happened. What exactly do you mean by "things were bad for a while"? Were you separated or both having affairs? 

Things still sound pretty awful. I'm not sure why the term "dating" is being applied here. When did all this happen? 

It seems like you know it's obvious they're having an affair so the question is do you want an open relationship, cuckold fantasy or a divorce? 

It's also unclear why you two apparently need a definition of "dating". 

Things were bad as in we were constantly arguing, emotionally worn out, miscomunicating, neither getting what they needed, and generally ready to separate.  We pulled it back from the brink of that with a lot of self work and therapy together.  Neither of us were having affairs.  
 

this was all within the last few months.  The term “dating” is a sticking point for me because I say that they were going out on dates, she insists it wasn’t any different than doing those same activities with anyone else.  
 

I’ve run this same topic on Reddit and the general consensus is she’s having an affair and I’m an idiot.  That being said, she has been up to this point one of the most recklessly honest people I’ve ever known.  Think “lived in Philly and might be neurodivergent” levels of honesty.  I can think of only a few times she lied to me about anything at all in the last 6 years.  Plus where we were at on the brink of divorce she had no reason to hide it if she was screwing around.

i don’t yuck anyone’s yum, but the cuck thing isn’t for me.  

[MissCanuck]

Yes, this is an affair. 

You already know this, but it seems you don't know which way is up anymore. It is obvious she is screwing around with him. . 

It doesn't matter what she "insists." She is crossing all kinds of boundaries which isn't ok for you, rendering her unsuitable for a continue relationship. She is not marriage material and if I were you, I would intiate a separation immediately

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, RobertoPDX said:

Ive run this same topic on Reddit and the general consensus is she’s having an affair  Think “lived in Philly and might be neurodivergent” I don’t yuck anyone’s yum, 

Unfortunately you need a lot more than Reddit to solve your marital issues. Are you doing some sort of research if you are posting odd questions on multiple platforms?

Do you equate her alleged "honesty" with neurological issues and living in Philadelphia?  Not sure what your odd phrase means. 

[Kwothe28]

At the very least she is having an emotional affair. Though my thoughts about this is that you are getting dupped and that she is already sleeping with him. Take it as you may but there is no reason for her to be doing all that and not reacting to it. She is going to his home to have a massage? Really? Please dont fall for stuff like that, its insulting.

At the very least any instance of her hanging out with him or even talking about stuff outside of work, you should count as an insult to you and your marriage. At the very worst you should file for divorce. Your wife literally wants to sleep with another man and tells you openly about it. That is alarming and shouldnt have a place in a monogamous relationship.

[Batya33]

Who cares if you call it some nonsensical label like a situationship or a warm fuzzies buddy?? It's inconsistent with being married to you -you are the spouse and you are uncomfortable with her one on one time with this particular male because he is attracted to her and spends one on one alone time that mimics dating activities.  She's playing with fire.  You don't need to be "right" you just need to tell her what your boundaries are -couples have different boundaries. 

Many years ago -my husband didn't want to spend $ to stay over another night at a hotel on a business trip so he was going to shower in his female colleague's room after his check out -only when she was not there.  He told me his idea and I was fine with it -know her, silly to spend $200 to shower etc (he ended up not needing to and/or making other arrangements.). 

I have male friends.  He has female friends.  We've each kept in touch with exes over the years - and it's not a one size fits all.  So if he'd told me she'd be in the room at the time and if I believed she was attracted to him/strong feelings and if she'd suggested it then - I'd have told him pay $ to keep your own room, I am not comfortable. 

Couples need to be able to talk simply and directly and respectfully when boundary stuff comes up.  She's playing with fire and playing games with you.  He wants her and he wants to do date like activities with her and she wants to as well.  That would be enough for me to say -nope.  

[boltnrun]

9 hours ago, RobertoPDX said:

Name checks out haha

I don't know what you mean by this.

But bottom line, your wife wants to continue dating this man. If you don't mind your wife going on dates I guess it's not an issue. But if you believe your spouse shouldn't date other men then you have a decision to make. 

[catfeeder]

My bottom line would be calling it disloyal, whether any clothes came off, or not. If she’s not willing to ditch him, I’d tell her to go move in with him.

[smackie9]

100% cheating. All those things should be reserved for you....dinners, walks, flirting. That's dating/having an affair...it's still sexual and intimate. 

Why the hell would you invest in/be with someone that has a track record like hers? She's a serial cheater. 

[Anita424674]

I do feel like I would not like this happening to me, and I bet your girlfriend also would not be happy if you did the same she is doing so yeap I would call it affair.

[Andrina]

A mentally healthy and ethical person would put boundaries on herself for the sanctity of her marriage. A colleague she's attracted to would be the very person she'd be careful about not getting personally close to. I mean, I'm sure you don't engage in that sort of behavior, so why would you let her slide in that area just because you love her? Love does not conquer all, as you can see since you already came close to separating before, and now you've even had a talking to to her male flirting buddy, yet she speaks of meeting up with the man in the future. How thoughtful of her. NOT.

She could care less that you're upset. She could care less that she's engaging in risky business that could spell the demise of her marriage. Her goal is titillating attention no matter the fallout. Not that it matters, but that colleague will drop her like a hot potato if you're smart enough to dump your wife, because men who inappropriately engage with a taken woman don't want longterm. They like the clandestine stuff and don't want to put in the effort a serious relationship entails.

I'm sorry you've been treated like this by someone who should be the faithful partner you deserve.

[Lambert]

14 hours ago, RobertoPDX said:

I don’t like it but she’s not someone to care what I think or feel as long as she believes what she’s doing isn’t wrong

Well isn't this convenient for her? 

You probably know that a marriage is between two people and what they agree is acceptable.

Her stance that she isn't doing anything wrong and therefore doesn't care what you think, is a single person approach to life. 

A married person considers their spouse, as they consider themselves.  Now of course you're separate people and that is important but that's more about separate but together. 

For me, the deal-breaker would be the part I quoted. If my spouse doesn't consider how their actions impact me, what do I need them for? I can do lonely and dejected on my own. 

[Betterwithout]

14 hours ago, RobertoPDX said:

the general consensus is she’s having an affair and I’m an idiot.  

This  ^ speaks volumes.  Are you listening to your thoughts?
Married people don't "date" other people.  They can have platonic friends, but sounds like she is blurring the boundaries. 
I'd bet you are deeply in love and afraid of cutting ties and afraid of life without her, but in the long run do you want to waste more of your precious life on someone who isn't truly committed?

Personally, if I don't have children with her I would leave, like yesterday.
Life is too short.

[boltnrun]

If I was deeply in love with someone I certainly wouldn't enjoy sitting at home while they're at someone else's home getting a "massage". 

[lostandhurt]

Does it matter what it is called?  There need not be penetration for it to be cheating and in fact an emotional affair is much worse than a one night stand with someone that means nothing to them.

 Here is one of the most used lines by cheaters:  "We are just friends"

 It does not matter what we think or what reddit thinks, what matters is what you think and feel about her disrespecting you and the marriage while not caring one bit about your feelings.  She can use what ever euphemisms she wants but it is still WRONG!

It sounds like your marriage still needs work so ask her this one simple question:  Do you still want to repair and make our marriage stronger and more healthy? When she answers yes then follow it with "then how does spending intimate time alone with another man help our marriage?"

 This is one of those its only a matter of time deals so be a door mat and keep eating your emotions until she finally finishes what she started with this guy or start the process of ending your marriage to a woman that clearly is not made for monogamous relationships. 

Lost