Boyfriend a mooch or am I judging?

[bluetulips]

I've been dating someone for several months and I'd been trying to be non-judgemental as I didn't know full story but the longer we date I realise there's no good reason for why his life set up is really immature and I'm finding it hard to imagine how future might pan out but would be interested to know if people think I'm being superficial. 

He's mid 30s and has a well paying job but has never paid for accommodation. The only place he's ever lived alone was paid for by his family. He currently lives with his mum and brother who don't work. He lived with an ex at her parents. 

Despite never having had the major outgoing of rent/mortgage, he has no savings. He just rips through his money and has never seen an issue with it (and probably wouldn't have) until I asked if he was thinking of ever moving out and I think the penny dropped that he wasn't going to get to go from one supported living situation to me doing the same for him. 

He has a really good job and I find the lack of aspiration and completely not understanding the value of money really off putting. His interpersonal interactions are really nice but this value seems super out of whack and the more I meet his family the more I see they're all living on generational handouts and living in parental homes forever to not "waste" money on supporting themselves. 

Is it a question of if the rest of the person seems nice or is this a red flag problem? My family is so far from this I don't want to be unreasonably judgemental but it does seem really weird. 

[tattoobunnie]

  

4 minutes ago, bluetulips said:

He just rips through his money and has never seen an issue with it

 

[Batya33]

Agree with Tattoobunnie.  And I’ll be diplomatic. I can see where for others this might be a non issue and others might judge you as “superficial “. So ? I mean some women won’t date short men. I was judged for wanting my future husband to have at least a college degree and not consider it just a piece of paper (or our marriage license). Also please know some people have the mentality that women should land a husband ASAP and not be so “picky “.  
Oh well. You do you. I’d run. 

[greendots]

Red flag.

You could argue that living with someone's family is financially wise as getting a property or renting is getting more expensive. BUT

It's one thing to earn very little and therefore not being able to save. It's quite another to have a well paying job and carelessly spend money consistently. Yes, it's his money so he has the right to do that.

Bottom line: If his attitude towards finances doesn't mesh with yours, you might want to reconsider the relationship.

[smackie9]

After a few months of dating, this should be a dealbreaker. Your priorities don't match his, it's a major incompatibility. Dump and move on. 

[Capricorn3]

Incompatible and big red flag. I would move on.

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately this has nothing to do with "judgemental", that's tricking yourself into over looking red flags. Please understand, those with a parasitic lifestyles are always looking for the next free ride and meal. You're in his sights. That's all this is. 

[Cherylyn]

It is fine to judge because you discern who is acceptable in your life and who doesn't qualify.  Judging receives criticism but I view judging to be to your benefit.  Judging determines how you wish to govern your life so that you're treated with the respect and dignity you deserve.

He's a leech and freeloader.  He sponges off others as long as he gets to enjoy his free ride at someone else's expense.  He takes advantage which is disdainful. 

He acts like a Mama's Boy.  He's a 2 year old wrapped in a man's body.  ☹️  He never grew up to become a real man. 

You certainly can do better.  He's an automatic reject. 

He will not give you the future you envision and wish for. 

[Tinydance]

Well I probably do find this off putting as well but on the other hand it is about goals and values, as you said. Some goals or values aren't in themselves good or bad, but can be different to different people.

For example, have you got a sense of what he actually has been spending money on? Has he travelled or does he go out a lot? Does he pay rent and contribute to bills with his mother and his ex's parents?

It's obviously important to you to live out of home and save money but it might be not as important to some people. Some people travel a lot, do backpacking, things like that first. Some people also like to just spend money on life experiences. For example, go out for nice meals, go to the theatre, go on a cruise, gym membership, etc. There are people who like to be frugal and work towards a big financial goal. E.g. Buying a car or a house. But there are also people who live in the moment and spend money on things they value in the here and now. 

Personally yes I would prefer my partner to live out of home but I probably wouldn't care as much if they didn't have a lot of savings. I would only care if they were blowing all their money away on some kind of addiction - e.g., drugs, gambling, strippers. But otherwise I don't think it bothers me that much.

I agree with you though that values need to match. For example, if you have savings, own property and things like that, it's fine if you're looking for someone equal to you. 

Something I would think about I guess is do you have many options of other guys? And what are you looking for from a relationship? I know it's really hard to find a partner in this day and age and many of my friends are struggling with it. Everyone has flaws so I guess you just need to think about what you're willing to overlook and what is a definite deal breaker for you. E.g. Have you asked your boyfriend if he's going to move out soon? For example if he moved out, can you give him a chance? I'm not saying you have to give him a chance but I'm just saying these are all things to think about.

[Kwothe28]

I talked about it on some other thread. But, people like that will never have the money as even if they earn millions, they would still scrape by. 

I have the newest example of my colleague. He is a couple of years more on my job salary which is now quite nice for my country. And yet, he took credit to fix his house and buys new furniture(he already made a dent in his new leather chair with cigs), gives some money to his parents(he lives with them) and with the rest he cant make it because he spends on ciggarettes and other stuff. So he scraps by. To the point he becomes a cheapskate who cant even buy a coffee for a helping stuff to make us at work (200 grames of coffee is like 2-3 dollars and it last us for a week or two, its really not that big of a deal). Mind you, he is a 40+ year old man, not some kid. 

Anyway, my point is, your guy is like that too. What you see now wont change in future. No matter how much he earns. People who cant handle money are like that. And if you think about the future there as far as financial aspect goes, its bleak. 

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, Tinydance said:

But there are also people who live in the moment and spend money on things they value in the here and now. 

Personally yes I would prefer my partner to live out of home but I probably wouldn't care as much if they didn't have a lot of savings. I would only care if they were blowing all their money away on some kind of addiction - e.g., drugs, gambling, strippers. But otherwise I don't think it bothers me that much.

I think it depends if they discussed general goals because his habits are not consistent with a marriage or even a long term commitment especially including a family unless both people have trust fund/are happy to go on government assistance.

Also many people live in the moment and have financial values that involve saving, investing, retirement goals. 

Many spend money on what they value that day and balance that against savings and investing.

  With exception I've rarely met an adult in his her 20s and beyond who wanted marriage and family and didn't care at all if their partner had the attitude the OP describes above and acted on it. You're an exception of course. In the last 30 plus years in my life it's been very very rare.

But I've met many who live in the moment and balance it against being financially responsible about the future. We are like that to an extent.  We travel as often as we can, I try to be inspired by my husband who's more spontaneous than me and go with the flow and as a result we've had more adventures than typical because we seize opportunities.  And we both married with substantial nest eggs and savings and savings and retirement goals and a college fund or our son.  I wouldn't have married or dated the person the OP describes and wouldn't feel judgmental about that in the least.  Or superficial,  Or not living in the moment. 

[catfeeder]

When I can't trust someone's judgment, I can't trust them. Period.

[bluetulips]

16 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well I probably do find this off putting as well but on the other hand it is about goals and values, as you said. Some goals or values aren't in themselves good or bad, but can be different to different people.

For example, have you got a sense of what he actually has been spending money on? Has he travelled or does he go out a lot? Does he pay rent and contribute to bills with his mother and his ex's parents?

It's obviously important to you to live out of home and save money but it might be not as important to some people. Some people travel a lot, do backpacking, things like that first. Some people also like to just spend money on life experiences. For example, go out for nice meals, go to the theatre, go on a cruise, gym membership, etc. There are people who like to be frugal and work towards a big financial goal. E.g. Buying a car or a house. But there are also people who live in the moment and spend money on things they value in the here and now. 

Personally yes I would prefer my partner to live out of home but I probably wouldn't care as much if they didn't have a lot of savings. I would only care if they were blowing all their money away on some kind of addiction - e.g., drugs, gambling, strippers. But otherwise I don't think it bothers me that much.

I agree with you though that values need to match. For example, if you have savings, own property and things like that, it's fine if you're looking for someone equal to you. 

Something I would think about I guess is do you have many options of other guys? And what are you looking for from a relationship? I know it's really hard to find a partner in this day and age and many of my friends are struggling with it. Everyone has flaws so I guess you just need to think about what you're willing to overlook and what is a definite deal breaker for you. E.g. Have you asked your boyfriend if he's going to move out soon? For example if he moved out, can you give him a chance? I'm not saying you have to give him a chance but I'm just saying these are all things to think about.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. So he does contribute to household stuff but in a relatively haphazard way I.e. he pays for some of the bills regularly but any more than that is just as and when his mum asks for it, there's not formalised rent. And considering how much disposable he has, I don't think it's very much. 

When I said I think he really needs to think about moving out as his family dynamic isn't great (as I say, there's a bit of a weird living off each other cycle going on) he said he'd start saving $1000 a month to build up a buffer. I both thought this revealed an immaturity in that no one goes from instant gratification spending in the moment to saver of the year overnight, plus indicates approximately how much he's getting through monthly on nothing. 

He spends on eating out a lot, never taking packed food to work. Random treats. Covering his brother for things. Basically loads of small things you'd buy if money was no object. 

He's invested in a couple of hobbies which is fair enough but I think even with that expenditure, there shouldn't be nothing. 

It just seems like he's an instant gratification person who is so in the present he hasn't looked to stretch himself any further than his current, not great dynamic, situation. 

It's very at odds with how empathetic and professional he is in other spheres of life. 

I think I struggle with these things because I'm so happy to be independent that I have had people point the avoidant attachment "you're the problem" finger at me. And I do definitely pull away and find consistent deep closeness a challenge (though I don't do any game playing and weighing up other people that apparently avoidants do??). I do want companionship but I think because my attachment isn't perfect, I find navigating the "are they really bad news for me vs. Am I just impatient and pulling away" very difficult!!

Rambling non-answer but that's my honest thoughts!

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, bluetulips said:

I think I struggle with these things because I'm so happy to be independent that I have had people point the avoidant attachment "you're the problem" finger at me. And I do definitely pull away and find consistent deep closeness a challenge (though I don't do any game playing and weighing up other people that apparently avoidants do??). I do want companionship but I think because my attachment isn't perfect, I find navigating the "are they really bad news for me vs. Am I just impatient and pulling away" very difficult!!

This situation is far more simple IMO.  You don't respect or admire him.  I'd avoid getting attached to someone you do not respect and admire in a serious LTR.  You don't respect how he lives, how he handles money, you give a withered nod to his hobbies but in a tolerable way not "cool he has these hobbies!"   As a friend/acquaintance -sure why not.  Also you'd be marrying his family in a way and they think how he lives is worth supporting. 

[bluetulips]

8 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I think it depends if they discussed general goals because his habits are not consistent with a marriage or even a long term commitment especially including a family unless both people have trust fund/are happy to go on government assistance.

Also many people live in the moment and have financial values that involve saving, investing, retirement goals. 

Many spend money on what they value that day and balance that against savings and investing.

  With exception I've rarely met an adult in his her 20s and beyond who wanted marriage and family and didn't care at all if their partner had the attitude the OP describes above and acted on it. You're an exception of course. In the last 30 plus years in my life it's been very very rare.

But I've met many who live in the moment and balance it against being financially responsible about the future. We are like that to an extent.  We travel as often as we can, I try to be inspired by my husband who's more spontaneous than me and go with the flow and as a result we've had more adventures than typical because we seize opportunities.  And we both married with substantial nest eggs and savings and savings and retirement goals and a college fund or our son.  I wouldn't have married or dated the person the OP describes and wouldn't feel judgmental about that in the least.  Or superficial,  Or not living in the moment. 

So I do find the marriage issue a challenging one as he seems to be more up for marriage than moving out or buying a property or anything. But it again seems like a kind of instant gratification thing of marriage is being perceived here as fun whereas the others perhaps look less glamorous and instant? 

He seems to be missing the fact that my concerns expressed regarding unhealthy family dynamic and poor money management are the exact building blocks that will (or won't) unlock marriage. 

I actually have no strong feelings about buying property together or having children together so there's that major financial linkup removed but I really struggle to see someone just get everything they think of on a whim.

Perhaps I'm just jealous? But equally, it's good to earn things. 

I do wonder if I have an avoidant attachment style that has me hyperfocus on the negative.

[bluetulips]

5 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

This situation is far more simple IMO.  You don't respect or admire him.  I'd avoid getting attached to someone you do not respect and admire in a serious LTR.  You don't respect how he lives, how he handles money, you give a withered nod to his hobbies but in a tolerable way not "cool he has these hobbies!"   As a friend/acquaintance -sure why not.  Also you'd be marrying his family in a way and they think how he lives is worth supporting. 

I'm trying to ask for thoughts on a specific problem which is not the same as not respecting him as a whole. 

And I really take issue with the massive projection of withered nod to hobbies. You've read a lot into me just trying to answer the responders question concisely. We actually connect on these hobbies but seeing as they're relatively niche, I thought it nicest not to make someone super identifiable on a massive public forum just in case. 

I'm clearly being open an vulnerable here so please be mindful of protecting tone onto nothing and then telling me off about it. 

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, bluetulips said:

Ido wonder if I have an avoidant attachment style that has me hyperfocus on the negative.

Please try not to ascribe perfectly functioning instincts about major red flags like this as an attachment theory issue you're struggling with.. Unfortunately you seem to be treating him like a handyman special.

A project  to train how to be frugal,  a responsible adult, stop mooching off others and have some sort of conscience and integrity about being a hedonistic parasite.

Please understand, dating is not to completely overhaul someone into who you wish you had. Trust your instincts and cut your losses. 

[Batya33]

17 minutes ago, bluetulips said:

I'm trying to ask for thoughts on a specific problem which is not the same as not respecting him as a whole. 

And I really take issue with the massive projection of withered nod to hobbies. You've read a lot into me just trying to answer the responders question concisely. We actually connect on these hobbies but seeing as they're relatively niche, I thought it nicest not to make someone super identifiable on a massive public forum just in case. 

I'm clearly being open an vulnerable here so please be mindful of protecting tone onto nothing and then telling me off about it. 

But you're asking if you're being judgmental! Your nod to his hobbies seemed like you just tolerate it just like you tolerate certain of his immature behaviors - what you see as immature ,that is. No need to know what his hobbies are of course -you are reading into my comments there. 

Niche hobbies can be really cool and your discretion is wonderful.  What's not so wonderful is you don't respect and admire him enough as a partner.  As an old married lady of a teenager I can tell you that especially if you want a child it's REALLY important for the child to see that his parents respect and admire each other - just today my son again said to me on our long walk to school bus - how he admires his dad so much and how he's the best dad he could ever hope for.  And in response I don't have to fake that I feel the same. 

Please be mindful of protecting your tone too -ok? I wasn't telling you off at all -sorry if it came across that way.  I think you're relying on psychospeak to justify what really is plain ole incompatibility in major values and in lifestyle.  IMO if you don't respect someone's financial values and lifestyle that is akin to not respecting them as a whole for purposes of the long term or marriage.  

[Coily]

Since you said mum, I guess is you're in the UK, if true I can understand some aspects of his living situation. if the house is family owned, it may make more sense for him to stay there, especially if his mum and brother are on the dole.

His impracticality with money is likely learned from his mum, I can only assume this since there is no mention of his father. Inter-generational behaviors can be very difficult to break, even with motivation on his part. 

What I am getting from your posts is you want his potential, not the reality of him now. Which is setting yourself up for frustration and failure. These changes are for him and from him, nothing to do with how you view his spending habits.

Overall, it sounds like you two are setting each other up for unhappiness. You need to find someone who you can grow with, to be complimentary towards; unfortunatley this guy isn't hitting all the criteria for you. It's okay, doesn't make him a bad guy (contrary to what some here would say); nor does that make you a harsh shrew.  You're two people who just didn't work out.

 

 

[throoawao]

On 2/6/2024 at 12:54 PM, bluetulips said:

seems super out of whack and the more I meet his family the more I see they're all living on generational handouts and living in parental homes forever to not "waste" money on supporting themselves. 

I think this is a major major issue. I understand if someone lives at their parents to build themselves up, and when they do, they make sure their family is provided for. But this is different, he's 30 and he is fully dependent on one or the either. 
You are his partner, you shouldn't have to provide for him. If anything, he should be providing for you and not mooching off of you. Being constantly dependent on generational handouts is scary because it leads the person to be too immature to provide for themselves, and if he is spending money elsewhere, then he is being narcissistic and only caring about himself and what he wants. 

I had a partner like that, and I cannot imagine him ever being a dad or a father because he would be dependent on me to provide. There are women who are ok with that, but I personally would not be

[Andrina]

It's wise to think of, when picking a partner, if they are a close match in each major area that are normal arguing points for couples.  The major areas people will argue about if they are on opposite ends include financial spending/saving habits, frequency of sex, religious beliefs and the amount of time devoted to religious practices, whether or not to have children and how to raise them, relationship boundaries/rules, balance of time spent with each other, friends and family, job, and hobbies/interests.

People cannot and should not be clones of each other, but should at least for the most part be on the same page about the sorts of major topics I mentioned. As said, huge differences will result in frustration, upsets, anger, depression, sorrow, etc.

My first husband had similarities to your man, so my advice is to get out now. It won't get any better and will likely get worse. 

[catfeeder]

Decide if you'd be willing to have your whole future impacted by any debts this man may incur.

It's one thing to be an acquaintance with someone who's judgment you can't trust. But the closer you get to such a person, the more likely it becomes that his poor judgment will impact you in one way or another.

I'd cut the cord before that happens.