My husband says since I'm home more I should "do" more. He's referring to chores

[Wonderstruck]

12 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Sometimes that is being a team player because the spouse has to do other work.  Like my husband -took care of his aging parents who lived 800 miles away (only child!), studied for his advanced degree, traveled a ton for business, worked more than full time at his job, etc. He also did all our taxes/related financial stuff and he as the only driver took care of all car related stuff. Housework is only one component. 

This is a valid point.

I'm curious what @cuddlebunny777's husband does, beyond working full-time, that contributes to the "team".

Because, as it stands, it sounds like she ALSO works full-time and takes care of the housework. So, what else does HE do, that would warrant her being in charge of the housework component?

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, Wonderstruck said:

This is a valid point.

I'm curious what @cuddlebunny777's husband does, beyond working full-time, that contributes to the "team".

Because, as it stands, it sounds like she ALSO works full-time and takes care of the housework. So, what else does HE do, that would warrant her being in charge of the housework component?

Because they need to talk.  He may feel he works harder -manual labor -and his hours are harder than hers - he may not "get" how an office job is stressful. He may feel after all that manual labor he can't do manual labor in the home.  He's fried.  For example now with my son's school I walk him 1.2 miles to his bus stop.  Then often I get an errand done at the shopping center and then I walk all the way home and often wash a floor or do something else active in the home.  So.  If my husband then wanted me to do something additional in the home that required me to move my body strenuously I'd say no.  I'd say -I can do it after I rest or another time but if it was time sensitive I'd say no. 

Even though -technically - I had "the time" and even though it might mean he'd have to do that extra thing/errand that was time sensitive.  People have different levels of strength/endurance/energy.  I have tons actually but after that 2.4 miles of walking then often wheeling heavy packages home uphill -I'm kind of done for at least an hour or so.  So that is what I mean and it requires a couple to communicate since sometimes the other person doesn't get what (for example my job in getting my son to the bus stop) is like.

[Seraphim]

34 minutes ago, Wonderstruck said:

So, you don't have a valid rebuttal to my argument.

I actually tried to engage with you in good faith, and you basically just reiterated "Marriage is a team" after I specifically asked you to explain WHY "Marriage is a team" ONLY APPLIES TO THE WIFE.

Words have meanings. 

Sorry. Had to head out my nightly walk I didn’t have the time to tied to a device . Having my health condition requires me to be active . 

[LootieTootie]

28 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Totally cool that you replied without reading - it's a lot! Ironically I said the same sort of thing about dinners and laundry.  No dogs just um a teenage boy? Not gonna try to compete about which is harder -and I hope your fur babies bring you tons of joy despite being tons of work! 

Definitely kids 🙂 

My husband and I love animals so we are extra when it comes to being fur-parents. So this means we do extra, and even if my husband doesn't help with the household chores, he plays with the animals a lot and take them hiking and camping and I can't complain when I get the house all to myself!

[Wonderstruck]

1 minute ago, Seraphim said:

Sorry. Had to head out my nightly walk I didn’t have the time to tied to a device . Having my health condition requires me to be active . 

Wow.

Okay, well, at least I can know that I tried to discuss this with you in good faith, and you chose to respond...like this.

I kept my side of the street clean.

[Seraphim]

6 minutes ago, Wonderstruck said:

Wow.

Okay, well, at least I can know that I tried to discuss this with you in good faith, and you chose to respond...like this.

I kept my side of the street clean.

There is agreeing to disagree correct? You don’t think she should have to compromise or be a team player or anything else. I do. 
 

I don’t have to choose to get into massive debates. I can choose not to get into massive debates. It is called agreeing to disagree. And I tend to like to get my walks in before it is dark because we have coyotes and wolves where I live . 

[boltnrun]

OP,  I'm sorry your thread got derailed and hijacked. 

Bottom line, staying quiet and seething and being resentful without having a discussion with your husband will solve nothing. So I recommend you have a talk with him. Not right after an argument, not when you're staring down a huge pile of laundry or his unpacked work bag and not while he's playing video games. Maybe after dinner on his day off. And I recommend you choose words that will have the most impact and be the most effective. 

[Wonderstruck]

Just now, Seraphim said:

There is agreeing to disagree correct? You don’t think she should have to compromise or be a team player or anything else.

This is NOT what I said. Please don't try to put words in my mouth.

I specifically asked why SHE was the only person in the marriage who is expected to compromise or be a "team player", and you refused to answer.

I specifically asked why being a "team player" involves HER doing the majority of the work.

I specifically asked what her husband is doing, beyond working a full-time job, that is contributing to the team, since she is ALSO working a full-time job AND taking care of the housework.

In fact, from your complete lack of response, it seems that YOU don't think that the HUSBAND should have to compromise or be a team player.

So, I get it now. The wife is expected to give her all to the TEAM, but the husband is not.

And since I can see that you're not interested in having a good-faith discussion about this, I will leave this thread.

I'm sorry, @cuddlebunny777, I tried.

I DO hope that you get that annulment, because, as was stated earlier in the thread, marriage should be about "partnership", NOT "servitude".

[Seraphim]

Not what I said either. I never said he didn’t have to compromise or be a team player . I don’t know what he does, or doesn’t do to be a team player or compromise I’m not married to him. I am also not conversing with him either so I can’t tell him what I would say. TEAM implies more than ONE person does it not ?

Anyway, I am not here to debate you I am here to give the OP my opinion. And based on almost 35 years in the same relationship and 31 years living with him I am giving my opinion. 
 

You can not like my opinion that is fine . It doesn’t hurt me and if we all thought alike the world would be boring . 

[Jaunty]

3 hours ago, Wonderstruck said:

I understand, but as I was saying to Seraphim, this isn't about being hyper-rigid and making sure that every little task is evenly divided up 50/50, this is about saying to @cuddlebunny777 that she needs to learn how to be a "team player", but then admitting that being a "team player" will involve her doing the majority of the work.

Well ... the OP does need to learn some things about being a team player if she chooses to stay in this marriage.

It's not about sucking up and doing all the work.  Not at all.  I agree that it's unbalanced.

What is wrong here though IS the "score card" part and the nurturing of resentment.

It's the same as in her other thread about the flowers he buys her.

@cuddlebunny777 - in both threads you are thinking about how maybe you made a mistake getting married.  You need to come to terms with this.  If you do not want to be married, please stop picking on your husband about the kind of flowers he buys you (let me tell you that it's quite impressive that he OFTEN buys you flowers - how many married people on these threads have a spouse who frequently does this, even if they are not the "right" flowers?  Very few) or about how you "have" to do all the housework.  Stop picking, and start the process of dissolving your marriage. 

If you DO want to be in this marriage, you do NOT have to do all the housework.  But you DO have to do some work on the marriage.

This is they type of thing that happens in young marriages where the people have not figured out how to organize who does what and how each of them will get their own needs met.  It's often a rough time and not a "honeymoon" period at all.

You and your husband NEED to figure this out between you, IF you are going to remain married.

This stance you have taken, though, where you are free to criticize him and the way he does things while 1) you are playing your role in it to the fullest by failing to work through it with him and simply doing it while building resentment and 2) evidently having one foot out the door of your marriage is not okay.

[Coily]

Sidebar aside. 

OP, when you start weighing your relationship on how much of X or Y has to be done; you lose sight of what you don’t have to do. You feed resentment and stave gratitude, not only for your husband, but yourself.

 The man works construction in an airport, which to those who are clueless about what that entails... well let me enlighten you. Not only does one have the normal wear an tear of a construction job, but there are hoops at every turn due to security. Left a hammer in the toolbox? Could be 30 minute task to grab what would be 5 minutes. Going through security with tools can be a nightmare, and yes sometimes you have to get the same screening treatment as regular passengers.  It’s exhausting physically and mentally, as you have to track every tool and every part. 
 

Now maybe he doesn’t get what exhausts you about your job. Well he can’t “just know”. Which I think is a key part of your marriage problem, you two don’t communicate well. Sounds like you talk at your husband, and yes it takes two for a conversation; but I have to ask when do these talks happen?

Something else that may be food for thought, make a punch list of chores. Not who does what, but all the chores. And you both check off what’s done. Don’t keep score, just something that is simple and straightforward, without accusations or all the other petty recriminations others suggest. Let him visualize in his own way what needs to be done.

[cuddlebunny777]

4 hours ago, boltnrun said:

OP,  I'm sorry your thread got derailed and hijacked. 

Bottom line, staying quiet and seething and being resentful without having a discussion with your husband will solve nothing. So I recommend you have a talk with him. Not right after an argument, not when you're staring down a huge pile of laundry or his unpacked work bag and not while he's playing video games. Maybe after dinner on his day off. And I recommend you choose words that will have the most impact and be the most effective. 

I did tell him that I'd like to talk. So far all I got was "ugh can we do it another day" (that was on Monday- his day off) let's see what day he chooses. 

[cuddlebunny777]

1 hour ago, Coily said:

Sidebar aside. 

OP, when you start weighing your relationship on how much of X or Y has to be done; you lose sight of what you don’t have to do. You feed resentment and stave gratitude, not only for your husband, but yourself.

 The man works construction in an airport, which to those who are clueless about what that entails... well let me enlighten you. Not only does one have the normal wear an tear of a construction job, but there are hoops at every turn due to security. Left a hammer in the toolbox? Could be 30 minute task to grab what would be 5 minutes. Going through security with tools can be a nightmare, and yes sometimes you have to get the same screening treatment as regular passengers.  It’s exhausting physically and mentally, as you have to track every tool and every part. 
 

Now maybe he doesn’t get what exhausts you about your job. Well he can’t “just know”. Which I think is a key part of your marriage problem, you two don’t communicate well. Sounds like you talk at your husband, and yes it takes two for a conversation; but I have to ask when do these talks happen?

Something else that may be food for thought, make a punch list of chores. Not who does what, but all the chores. And you both check off what’s done. Don’t keep score, just something that is simple and straightforward, without accusations or all the other petty recriminations others suggest. Let him visualize in his own way what needs to be done.

Correction: my husband does not work construction at the airport. He just works in customer service. He's walking all day to and from different sides of the airport.

 

About this list of chores: We both check off what's done? How do we know who does what? lol. Do we just randomly start doing chores and assign it to ourselves? Trying to understand better 

[catfeeder]

I like the team concept as a way to negotiate with husband. Discuss housework as something you are both on the same side to manage rather than as something that divides you.

And manage is the key word, not ‘assign’. Like “How can WE get things done so I won’t feel like it’s all on me?”

Can we find reasonably priced help with some things, like sending laundry out, or taking grocery or restaurant deliveries in, or can someone come to clean on certain days of the month and I’ll move my work to other rooms or a coffee shop for a couple hours on those days?

Successful couples negotiate all the time, and they turn bribery into an art. Consider exchanging lists of things and actions that you could be bribed with in an exchange for something on his list. This can include anything from merchandise, cooking, cleaning, sexual favors, massage. It can also include getting paid 20 bucks on the spot for every time he leaves a glass or a dish for you to clean up, or you pay 20 for every time you do or say something on his list of things he’d like you to curb.

The point is, no two people have an identical match of vision in what they believe a marriage ‘should’ look like. It takes negotiation, but not as adversaries. You team up on the same side so that the relationship wins.

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, cuddlebunny777 said:

: We both check off what's done? How do we know who does what? 

Just stop doing everything. It's really that simple. Only shop, cook, clean and do your own laundry.   This way you can reduce your resentment. You can't make him do anything consistently with lists or deals or arguments or rants.

The only way is to simply not do it for him. If he's hungry, he'll go out and shop and cook or pick up food. If he has no clean clothes, he'll either have to do a load of wash or wear the same underwear for a week. It's really that simple. If you act like a housekeeper and maid, you'll get treated like one. That's the problem.

You have an unusual view of marriage and sadly when many people are in the early stages of marital bliss you're wasting your free time arguing about household nonsense.

 

[Coily]

5 hours ago, cuddlebunny777 said:

Correction: my husband does not work construction at the airport. He just works in customer service. He's walking all day to and from different sides of the airport.

 

About this list of chores: We both check off what's done? How do we know who does what? lol. Do we just randomly start doing chores and assign it to ourselves? Trying to understand better 

Could have sworn construction came up somewhere in here, but I would argue Airport customer service is far worse. There are some real nut jobs who are “always right”.

 The idea of the list is that things get done, not paying attention to who does them. If say you normally do dishes, but your husband decided to do them instead; all that matters are the dishes are clean. Or if your husband normally takes out the trash, and you happen to; the trash is taken out; why care who does it?

It also avoids the marriage destroying and resentment building ***-for-tat trash of just doing your own thing and punishing your husband when he can be reasoned with. That sort of idea is more about poor passive aggressive behavior and avoid having a discussion with a spouse and equal. This concept is basically turning a marriage into roommates.
If you had a co-worker who only did half 6 of 10 tasks, and magically assumed you would “get it” you had to do the rest; you both would likely get fired. The list would also include the two of you sitting down and going over it, on a weekly basis, not to say who did what; but what didn’t get done, and what day best to do it. That way he will start to understand your thinking and chore priorities. Hopefully he will have an epiphany that he needs to step up more.

[Batya33]

I'll give you a real life example of team work and why score card mentality really doesn't work.

Last night our son came home -with my husband - as I was cleaning up the kitchen so I was occupied.  He had all his "stuff" and didn't particularly care to listen to my telling him to put his stuff down and hop in the shower as it was getting late. Typically my husband makes sure he gets in the shower especially if I'm occupied. It's how we do things/our understood routine.

Son is horsing around and generally being annoying. I'm annoyed at husband for not stepping up and doing what he usually does/knows is his "role" -were I keeping score that is.

Then I hear my husband-who is checking work email -say "oh no I forgot about this deadline".  I automatically switched from "please get him to get in that shower, I'm busy" to "can I help?" He said "not right now but maybe later, thanks."  I could see it helped him to hear me say that and then he explained the details.  

I promise you if I was all up in my head about "how dare he sit at the computer while son is dancing around with his stuff all over and not even close to doing what I told him" I bet I wouldn't have even heard him say mostly to himself that he had a deadline he forgot. And I bet that later when despite the deadline he had time to watch the ball game I'd have been really resentful "oh wow - a deadline .... so he can't help me but he can watch the game, hmmmmm". 

No instead I switched to -how can I help.  Cause I love him and we're a team and it really sucks to come home after a long day and a rush hour drive to see an email like that. Sucks more than clothes on the floor and a defiant teenager who is not interested in listening to his mom who's wiping down kitchen counters.

It's really hard to shift like that if you are so resentful and adding to your list of grievances -see -he sees me scrubbing counters and I'm also supposed to do the teenager-direction he knows is on his list??

Think about it a bit.  I do think it's a decent example.  Yes I did more last night and yes he did relax and watch the game and I am glad he could given his deadline.

 

[Batya33]

One other suggestion -my husband and I grew up with landlines and -even no answering machines and started using real email -meaning external -in our early 30s.  We married in our early 40s.  So we had a huge adjustment as adults to all this technology. 

I use email for the boring lists/honey do stuff - for the boring reminders about cleaning/scheduling/parenting tasks.  Or texts depending. But mostly email so he's not barraged with pings on his phone for non urgent stuff.

That way it limits the boring convos with your spouse and that way you can remember to put "thanks!" and "please" when if you're in a rush or stressed you might come across too drill seargant like.  Also I try not to do too many emails.  There's no point in the marriage being bogged down with this stuff especially if you both work full time.

 

[boltnrun]

8 hours ago, cuddlebunny777 said:

I did tell him that I'd like to talk. So far all I got was "ugh can we do it another day" (that was on Monday- his day off) let's see what day he chooses. 

The dreaded "we need to talk" is almost always not well received. Instead of announcing a talk, how about wait until the two of you are relaxing together and then bring up the topic? 

When I was in management I always "led with a positive" when I had to deliver a feedback to an employee. That means I would start with complimenting them on something they were doing well, then segue into the feedback. So you could say "Hey, thanks for ordering takeout, it was delish. Any chance we could figure out how to divide the rest of the chores? I've been feeling a bit overwhelmed lately so I was hoping we could agree on a game plan going forward so neither one of us feels overworked."

It's all in the delivery.

[redswim30]

9 hours ago, Coily said:

Sidebar aside. 

OP, when you start weighing your relationship on how much of X or Y has to be done; you lose sight of what you don’t have to do. You feed resentment and stave gratitude, not only for your husband, but yourself.

 

^ 100% THIS. 

I too read both your threads and this is indeed the through line- you didn't really understand/weren't prepared for what marriage really is.  Instead of just saying you might not have been ready (and I don't personally think you were/are ready) you are lashing out and keeping score of all the things your husband is doing "wrong". 

OP,  this is just MHO, but I say this as someone on my second marriage, so I have a lot of experience with this and from learning with my experiences as someone who got married young the first time (before I was really ready) and the mistakes that I made. 

Most women get an unrealistic view of what marriage is from a young age.  Society kind of ingrains us in this.  Your husband will do all the "man duties" around the house, he will buy you a dozen roses, he will *insert A B C*" 

The disparity between what a lot of people think marriage SHOULD BE and what it ACTUALLY is - is VAST. 

I empathize with you, because I made a lot of these same mistakes in my first marriage.  Society wants to tell us that chores "should be 50/50", but in my experience that can be a destructive attitude to have.  It can lead to "keeping score" which can lead to resentment, " I do SO MUCH more than they did"  or even can become toxic with one spouse being more like a parent, " Now, Bobby, did you do X, Y, Z?" 

IMHO, in the course of a long marriage, things are rarely if EVER going to be 50/50.   Some weeks my husband might be super stressed and I'll do more chores that week.  Another week I may be sick and my husband has to do a bit more. 

I'll tell you the biggest thing that has helped me with this and been successful regarding chores.  ASKING FOR THE SUPPORT YOU NEED.    A big thing I hear often from other female married friends of mine and I'll admit WAS my attitude during my first marriage-  He should WANT to do this or that.  It's a little unfair.  You are expecting your spouse to be a mind reader.  And then the issue bubbles up and you end up keeping score in your head.   I did this during my first marriage.  

I have gone for a healthier and more effective approach in my second.   Last night trash needed to be taken out and dishes needed to be done.  I COULD have just done both and been miserable in my head wondering WHY my husband didn't "volunteer" to do either.  INSTEAD, I said calmly and kindly, "Honey, both dishes and trash have to done tonight.  I would really appreciate your help.  You pick which one you will do and then I will do the other."  This gives him a clear choice, it is clearly stating what you are seeking help for and the action you wish him to take.  It also is conveyed with love and appreciation for the help he is about to give you. For the chores issue, I cannot recommend this enough. 

HOWEVER, OP- I really just wonder if you don't want to be married or at least not yet.  I say this from a place of love and not judgment.  It's not too late to get an annulment if this is not what you really want.  I think you should really think about if you want to be married.  I'll tell you another thing- issues like "flowers" or chores are about as minor of issues as you encounter within a long marriage.  You will be dealing with MUCH bigger issues and arguments than these.  You've been so upset over these fairly minor issues that I do wonder if marriage is really right for you, at least for the time being.  Something to consider. 

[mylolita]

Just to interject, another little thought - you get what you accept, you get what you put up with, and you get what your boundaries allow! 
 

For example - women who are getting involved with horrible men who treat them badly - they are allowing this treatment, and by not leaving, confirming to the man they don’t deserve better and carry on! 
 

You have to set up the standards, both ways! 
 

I always think, as partners, you should feel blown away lucky to have each other, and never take each other for granted. You should want to do right and your best by the other. It’s true you can have a long term marriage and have the man worship the ground you walk on, and have open communication, and mutual respect, and passion - but you have to set this up from day one by just being “That Woman”. 
 

If you accept and allow the checking out and the not talking and feeling dissatisfied and resentful and unsure, it will just carry on and it won’t get better OP. 
 

What are your standards and needs and want in your relationship? What are his?

 

I’m not sure whether you truly love and have devoted yourself to one and other? It shouldn’t be a chore to want to please your partner, it shouldn’t be a chore for him to listen to you and know what you like! He should want to thrill and please you! 
 

It reminds me of an example from my in laws who have, a terrible, miserable, 48 year marriage. One Birthday, he brings her home a large sack of potatoes. She’s absolutely livid. Is it a joke? Is he being mean? He was apparently serious and thought she would like it.

 

Giving a gift is about knowing the person you are giving the gift too! A great gift giver knows what the receipt really wants! This takes deep knowledge and understanding and care to get it right! Do you feel this from your husband? And to turn this around - do you give him the same back from yourself? 
 

Men like the simple stuff… being nurtured, cooked for, feeling cared for. They don’t normally need a woman to reveal expensive gifts. You both seem blind to each others needs and the care and desire to make it work doesn’t seem to be there from either side? 
 

Do you adore your man? Is he your best friend? Would you die for him? Do you feel happy and lucky as can be at the idea of spending the rest of your lives together, or does it fill you with dread? 
 

You need to know what you honestly and truly want before anyone else can know, even your husband.

 

x

[Batya33]

I too second asking. I too second that it’s hard to ask because your spouse typically isn’t “helping you “ he’s doing his part. Especially important to ask if the timing or type of approach is important to you. “Can you please start the washing machine before 10am because the linens are in there ?” I like the choice idea too. 
also your hsibsnd mentioned you’re home more so you should do more. You don’t have kids. Stop being home more. Go to the gym after work. Join a book group that meets after work or a hobby after work. Pickle ball or volunteer work. Oh well. Then he’ll have to get his own dinner when he returns home - you can arrive home closer to when he does. Either having eaten already T or bring in food for yourself - and him if it’s your turn to do dinner. Don’t be home more. 

[itsallgrand]

Mylolita, yes, I too noticed an absence of any mention of how much she loves him, what she likes and admires about him, anything! 

Cuddlebunny, ready or not ready, is he your person? It really comes down to that. The rest can be worked on. But if you don't deep down want to be with him in thick and thin, nothing you try will matter. 

[mylolita]

42 minutes ago, itsallgrand said:

Mylolita, yes, I too noticed an absence of any mention of how much she loves him, what she likes and admires about him, anything! 

Cuddlebunny, ready or not ready, is he your person? It really comes down to that. The rest can be worked on. But if you don't deep down want to be with him in thick and thin, nothing you try will matter. 

Itsallgrand,

 

I agree!

 

I think in the bigger, general scheme of this is the complete importance of knowing yourself, and what you want, and feeling deserving of something good and brilliant! 
 

The first few dates are vital - people I feel don’t put as much importance on it as there should be. It’s essential you hone your skills with people - learn to read them, ask the right questions - your time is precious and limited, we don’t have it to waste, especially in loveless marriages, and worse in some other threads, abusive partners. 
 

I once heard a psychologist say - the biggest and most important decision you will ever make is who you shack up with. I really believe that. Especially if you go on to have children. 
 

All the best luck too you cuddle!

 

The big blessing in this situation is, there are no children, so only yours and his heart suffers the heartbreak - it’s a good thing to reevaluate now, rather than later down the line.

 

x

[catfeeder]

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Just stop doing everything. It's really that simple. Only shop, cook, clean and do your own laundry.   This way you can reduce your resentment. You can't make him do anything consistently with lists or deals or arguments or rants.

The only way is to simply not do it for him. If he's hungry, he'll go out and shop and cook or pick up food. If he has no clean clothes, he'll either have to do a load of wash or wear the same underwear for a week. It's really that simple. If you act like a housekeeper and maid, you'll get treated like one. That's the problem.

You have an unusual view of marriage and sadly when many people are in the early stages of marital bliss you're wasting your free time arguing about household nonsense.

Because this is an adversarial tactic to limit a roommate’s imposition on your time and space, I would only recommend this in cases where a couple has exhausted all cooperative measures of negotiation and bribery, and even marriage counseling, AND you are shutting down the marriage, you’ve sought legal advice, and you are on your way out.

When you view someone as an adversary rather than a partner, you’re no longer invested in the relationship getting the win. Sure, if you lived on your own or with a roommate, you’d need to clean to the degree that you’d want to enjoy a clean home regardless of another’s contribution. But you wouldn’t need to prep their meals or wash their clothes, and you could just move any of their belongings to an agreed box in their closet or whatever.

That’s fine if you’re not interested in building a relationship with them. But if you’re invested in your relationship, then you’re interested in contributing to their comfort and happiness without adopting a parental role.

Parenting a spouse is a marriage killer. It  will accelerate resentment on both sides faster than any other behavior… uhm, unless you’re both into that dynamic. The problem is, once you go there, you recognize how utterly exhausting it is to be on the point of responsibility for another adult. It’s the opposite of sexy, that’s for sure. So I wouldn’t take up a habit of nagging.