Wife confessed to cheating on me before we were married...

[adviceseeker123]

My wife(31F) and I(36M) have been married for 7 years and dating for 12. We have 3 kids aged from 11 to 4. In 2013, my wife went to a house party, and I chose to stay home. A couple of friends that were there told me that night she was flirting with this guy she just met, I have known the guy for a few years, he's a friend of friends. The next day when we got a chance to talk I asked her about this guy and what all happened and she told me nothing, they just flirted. Ive never had any reason to question her trust so I accepted it for what she said it was and moved on. During that time our relationship wasn't the best. I had just started a business and it was consuming a lot of my time and unfortunately I put everything else on the back burner to get the business off the ground, including her. I wasn't sensitive to her needs.

Fast forward to 6 weeks ago, I bumped into this guy at a friends house and we were all talking but I couldn't help but notice he was being awkward and kinda distant towards me, it was just off... So when I got home I asked my wife what really happened that night... I just had that gut feeling there was more...She got mad and said "not this again" and walked off... Later that night, I pressed again and she said "There was a group of us outside and we were just talking, and everyone had went inside, and we kissed". I asked her if anything else happened and she said, "nothing else, nothing more than a 2 second kiss". She didn't tell me for the longest time because she didn't know how I'd take it as I used to be stressed out to the max and unpredictable. *note: I've never laid a hand on my wife or any other woman for that matter...

I was understanding and open minded about it, so I asked her to tell me the rough details of the night and it went like this...

They were flirting all night inside but they went outside with a group of people to smoke ( she smokes sometimes when she drinks) and once everyone went inside, he and her stayed out for a moment talking and it ended with a kiss. No making out, no tongue, no heavy petting, a 3 second kiss. They went back inside and made small talk with the party. Nothing else between them happened. He eventually left with the people he came with (he lived over 30 minutes away). She stayed at the party and when the party wound down she went to bed and she slept in the same bed as her girlfriend(the party host). It was just her and the host that stayed. She never got his number and never talked to him again.

I kind of believe her because she's never done anything like this ever before, and she IS a good person, a good mother, and wife. She said her reason she started flirting with him because I wasn't showing her attention and she wanted to talk to someone and feel liked, she didn't intend for the kiss to happen, but it did and she felt horrible about it (she has high anxiety). And  80% of the people at that party were my close friends and she didn't want them to find out about it because she didn't want to be judged or obviously want me to find out. So she kept her distance from him the rest of the night so nothing more would happen or so it didn't look obvious that they had just kissed. She ended the conversation with, If you ever question anything, look through my phone, laptop, and iPad... I thought, wow that pretty transparent and convincing....

A few days later I got on Facebook to look him up, I was blocked by him (very odd). So I got on her Facebook, she's not blocked, but they're not friends either. I checked her messages, nothing from him. I checked her account log and they were never friends on FB at any time. Checked her snapchat, she didn't have a snapchat account until 2 years after that night, so there was nothing there. I remember distinctly when she got it, so I know she didn't have one before and deleted it to cover her tracks or anything. I checked her contacts and typed in his name, nothing. I then typed in his number, and a contact came up... It was a girl in her contacts and she added his number to it as a second phone number, clearly to hide it.

So I asked her about it... she said she forgot all about it, its been 9 years... I could maybe buy that, but not really. She claims she pulled his number off Facebook because she wanted to reach out to him and tell him not to tell anyone about that night, as she felt bad about it and put forth more effort into our marriage, but didn't recall if she actually talked to him at all...

So I told her I wanted to get the AT&T billing statement from that time(we were on the same plan) so she called AT&T and put me on a 3 way call with customer service and he said we couldn't get the detailed billing statement from that time without a lawyer...A few days later I called and was told the same thing, I called again a couple days later and they said they would mail them to me. They should be here any day now...

I told her that I have the detailed billing report from ATT on the way, and she got quiet and visibly uneasy...I told her "if there's anything else you want to tell me before the statement gets here, now is the time to come forward. As I'm not going to accept the answer of "I forgot" again, because you've used that one already and you have had plenty of time to think it over" Later that night she tells me she doesn't recall talking/texting him that night but doesn't want to tell me she didn't because she was drinking so she's unsure...but she's positive that she never had any conversation with him after that night...

She again swears up and down that nothing more than a kiss happened when I ask her about it... Its not so much of whether more happened or not but a matter of in order for me to get over this and move our marriage back to this great place we've been for years, we have to restore trust without any doubt...Its the betrayal that hurts. Ive told her that I don't care if she had a one night stand this guy or had a full on affair for months or years back then... I love her for who she is today, and I'm not leaving her. But in order to restore our marriage and trust... I need to feel like I'm being told the truth and I keep going back and forth on whether or not to believe her...

Its started taking a toll on our marriage now as its the toxic thoughts I'm having and she keeps telling me, "I've told you everything from that night, and nothing more happened, what don't you understand?" She's even made comments that "the constant going back and forth will kill our marriage off before the "not coming clean", so I'd rather tell you if more happened so we can move on, and save our marriage before its too late, but nothing more happened"

What's the woman's perspective on this?

[reinventmyself]

When you get the call records, is this the last of your forensic research?   I get the blow you must feel.  You can't help but go down that dark path and wonder if everything is a lie. 

But if your goal is stay in your marriage and move forward, what are you going to do with all this information and when does it stop?

Don't get me wrong.  You are entitled to your moment and all the feelings that surround it.  

I'd suggest you two work with a family therapist to help facilitate this and sort it out.

[bluecastle]

13 minutes ago, reinventmyself said:

I'd suggest you two work with a family therapist to help facilitate this and sort it out.

Agree with this 100 percent. And I'd tell your wife exactly this: you are reeling, drifting into dark places, but want to work through this, together, and believe some sessions with a therapist could be really helpful. 

I understand that, when emotions run hot, a sense of urgency kicks in, a need to feel in control when, suddenly, everything feels out of control. Hence: the deep dives into social media, the combing over phone records. Call that wanting to move on, but from the outside it looks like the opposite: like wanting to feel in control. And on some level you have to know that that path can become endless, devouring, a road to more dark in searching for light. 

Press me on the details of any brief romantic dalliance from nine years ago and there is no way I will remember the play by play perfectly. Heck, there may be kisses that are completely forgotten. Further, my memory will become all the more fragmented if it's a dalliance that I'm a bit ashamed about, something I much prefer to forget than to remember. This is human, and I share it in hopes that you can remember your wife's humanity in all this. 

Big picture? It really sounds like you understand all that needs to be understood, but the feelings need a moment to be felt, and to settle, which is where a therapist can be a godsend. It was a tough stretch in life, in your relationship. You were both very young. You were preoccupied, not the most present partner. Feeling unmoored, she made a dumb choice of the sort that many, many people make when they are a few sneezes out of adolescence. She seems, by all accounts, to have risen above that choice a million times over, both in the immediate aftermath and in the years since.

Hopefully, for you, and for you two, you can find a way to lean into that rather than litigating this to the nth degree. Because that—and I say this with only compassion for all you're feeling—will tug you both back into versions of yourself you've long outgrown, a nosedive that can be very hard to come back from. 

[Batya33]

From the time line did you already have a child together at this time? Reason why you waited to marry? Does she or did she have a drinking problem? I echo what Reinvent wrote.  I know it's a shock and I agree with what she wrote as to your reaction.  

[adviceseeker123]

9 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

From the time line did you already have a child together at this time? Reason why you waited to marry? Does she or did she have a drinking problem? I echo what Reinvent wrote.  I know it's a shock and I agree with what she wrote as to your reaction.  

Yes, we already had a child together, she turned 2 three weeks after the incident. We didn’t plan on having a child so soon, love just took us that direction. She has never had a drinking problem, we are both social drinkers on occasion…back then and now. We were engaged for almost a year at the time. We weren’t married yet as we were saving up for our wedding, we didn’t even have a firm date set yet.

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, adviceseeker123 said:

Yes, we already had a child together, she turned 2 three weeks after the incident. We didn’t plan on having a child so soon, love just took us that direction. She has never had a drinking problem, we are both social drinkers on occasion…back then and now. We were engaged for almost a year at the time. We weren’t married yet as we were saving up for our wedding, we didn’t even have a firm date set yet.

Well no -not being able to remember what happened because of alcohol is not social drinking -so maybe this was a one time thing.  You chose to have sex so you chose to potentially get pregnant - I make a point of this because it sounds like you're brushing aside the drinking issue and -you're a grownup, a parent, a husband -really? You don't take responsibility for choosing to have a child (you said things were rocky so I'm not sure if that was when). I have a child. Love doesn't "take you" in any direction as far as procreation - you know the birds and bees as well as I do.  I was just wondering if at the time of the incident you were married yet/had the child because that does factor into the seriousness (obviously you were very serious and together despite not having taken vows yet!)

Is it somewhat of a theme with you to kind of brush aside choices that affect your life? Is it possible that you kinda sensed that night something was amiss but brushed it aside- including your fiance/mother of your toddler being so drunk and not just "socially drinking?"

[adviceseeker123]

1 hour ago, reinventmyself said:

When you get the call records, is this the last of your forensic research?   I get the blow you must feel.  You can't help but go down that dark path and wonder if everything is a lie. 

But if your goal is stay in your marriage and move forward, what are you going to do with all this information and when does it stop?

Don't get me wrong.  You are entitled to your moment and all the feelings that surround it.  

I'd suggest you two work with a family therapist to help facilitate this and sort it out.

The phone records are the last of the search. I guess the information I’ll get from that will either reiterate what she’s told me is the truth and make it easier to move forward knowing we can rebuild our trust, or show me that she’s holding back the truth from me, allowing me to accept in knowing that she hasn’t been honest with me. If the second of the two is the case, then I need to seek out why she doesn’t feel as though she can be forthcoming with me. Then fix what I can, and allow her to feel as though she can in fact trust me and not feel as though she needs to hide or fail to disclose things to me.
 

Trust is the objective here, as that is the foundation of any good relationship, and given the circumstances that trust has been damaged. I need to know if I can trust her to do my part so I’m not setting myself up for future disappointment and hurt. I also need to know if she trusts me enough to tell me the truth and not hold back for fear of hurting me, hurting herself emotionally, or any other reason for that matter. 
 

We are looking for a marriage counselor, her therapist recommended a couple to her today. 

[adviceseeker123]

57 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

Press me on the details of any brief romantic dalliance from nine years ago and there is no way I will remember the play by play perfectly. Heck, there may be kisses that are completely forgotten. Further, my memory will become all the more fragmented if it's a dalliance that I'm a bit ashamed about, something I much prefer to forget than to remember. This is human, and I share it in hopes that you can remember your wife's humanity in all this. 

 

I understand what you’re saying but I guess I see it in a different light. As we try to suppress events within our memory, I feel as though they’re not within walls, but within a time capsule. Her and I both have discussed events that we tried to bury or suppress from our childhood in full play by play details  

I recall very vividly events that I felt were some of the worst things I did that really went against the grain of my character. Hands down, this is one of the worst things she’s ever done, and she openly admits that, I didn’t bring her to that conclusion. So

I guess that’s why I find it hard to believe when she says she doesn’t remember things, as her and I are the same person. Those bad things haunt us.  
 

[bluecastle]

7 minutes ago, adviceseeker123 said:

I understand what you’re saying but I guess I see it in a different light. As we try to suppress events within our memory, I feel as though they’re not within walls, but within a time capsule. Her and I both have discussed events that we tried to bury or suppress from our childhood in full play by play details  

I see what you're saying. At the same time, this analogy is a bit different, since you are not going to scrutinize or refute a play by play she lays out about something in her childhood. The emotional stakes are different, since those are not events that directly impact you, you two. 

Anyhow, if I understand correctly you are right now predicating the rebuilding on trust on what this phone bill says—specifically if there is any communication between her number and his after that night? 

Curious: When it comes to the lower octane highs and lows of life, do you feel she is generally free and forthcoming with you? 

 

[adviceseeker123]

32 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Well no -not being able to remember what happened because of alcohol is not social drinking -so maybe this was a one time thing.  You chose to have sex so you chose to potentially get pregnant - I make a point of this because it sounds like you're brushing aside the drinking issue and -you're a grownup, a parent, a husband -really? You don't take responsibility for choosing to have a child (you said things were rocky so I'm not sure if that was when). I have a child. Love doesn't "take you" in any direction as far as procreation - you know the birds and bees as well as I do.  I was just wondering if at the time of the incident you were married yet/had the child because that does factor into the seriousness (obviously you were very serious and together despite not having taken vows yet!)

Is it somewhat of a theme with you to kind of brush aside choices that affect your life? Is it possible that you kinda sensed that night something was amiss but brushed it aside- including your fiance/mother of your toddler being so drunk and not just "socially drinking?"

We were together for less than 6 months, we were in an extremely passionate relationship. She got pregnant, we know how that happened. After the birth of our child and living together I asked her to marry me to which she said yes, without hesitation.

I never once said we didn’t take responsibility for our child… what did you want, the pornographic details of how it happened? I figured we were all adults here so I simply said “love just took us in that direction” implying yes we had sex, and yes we had a child from it. 

Neither of us are alcoholics, she has never had more than a 6 pack of her girly drinks throughout a social event. This was a celery event so I’m sure there were drinking games and everything else, as I stated it was a house party. Was she intoxicated from this? I’m sure. Was it enough to blur her memory? I would imagine so, as she’s not a heavy drinker so she lacks the tolerance to alcohol…but I can’t speak for her state of mind. If I could I wouldn’t be here. If you’d like to call someone that drinks once a month a person with a drinking problem by all means be my guest I suppose. 

I brushed it aside because nothing like this has ever rocked our relationship before. I never sensed anything, I’ve never had any reason to question her before as this is completely out of character for her. So I took her word on it because I trusted her. I wasn’t there that night to weigh in on whether she was drunk or sober, she said she was. 

[SooSad33]

1 hour ago, adviceseeker123 said:

The phone records are the last of the search. I guess the information I’ll get from that will either reiterate what she’s told me is the truth and make it easier to move forward knowing we can rebuild our trust, or show me that she’s holding back the truth from me, allowing me to accept in knowing that she hasn’t been honest with me. If the second of the two is the case, then I need to seek out why she doesn’t feel as though she can be forthcoming with me. Then fix what I can, and allow her to feel as though she can in fact trust me and not feel as though she needs to hide or fail to disclose things to me.

Of course people will hide things- especially those they feel bad about ( regrets).

IMO, she is being honest enough and you're blowing this way out of proportion.  I feel your home used to be okay, settled & happy enough, yes?

Lack of trust is damaging and you keep drilling this woman.  Then yeah, it's messy now 😕 .

I say, IF you trust your wife, that she did this because she did NOT feel appreciated by you at that time, what happened, happened and that event is long gone.

She married YOU.  She does not sound like a cheater. She slipped one night at a party with a man who did give her some attention... But, nothing ever flourished with that 'one time'.

I suggest you do seek some prof help if you feel you can't get over this. ( or as mentioned, couple therapy).

But, IMO, if you don't stop all of this, it will be too late. a wedge will have been driven between you two, which cannot be repaired 😕 .

 

 

[Andrina]

Not that there is any good excuse to kiss someone else when taken, you have to see the big picture in this particular situation. She was 20 years old, very young, when giving birth. A person's brain isn't fully mature in the decision making area until about age 25. And there was an emotional disconnection in your partnership at the time.

She never had a time to sow her wild oats and didn't have a full array of dating experiences before facing the seriousness of a serious partnership and becoming a mother. From what you've written, in my mind, this was a youthful, momentary, stupid moment that was never repeated.

And I believe they were never intimate. Your close friends told you about the flirting. Why would they leave out the more egregious news if the two shared a bedroom? I can't even imagine that she would've used your close friend's bedroom, nor would they have allowed it.

If you two had a strong emotional connection now, I don't believe this past would be raising its ugly head again. She's right in that the rehashing of all of this will be a cancer in this relationship. Once a discussion about issues has happened, and everyone moves on from it, there is no reason to bring it up again when everything in the present has been going well.

She likely learned from that incident, and vowed to never let it happen again. You, looking at this man's social media is bring everything to the present.

I agree that therapy will be important to give you two tools to navigate your problems in a healthy way. Besides that, read some books on how to inject a new spark into your partnership and gain or reestablish a deep emotional connection.

People are human and make mistakes. Some are unforgivable, yet for others, a break should be offered. In this case, I'd give her a pass.

 

[Kwothe28]

Its a complicated one. She did a bad thing. Kissed some other guy(probably something more, I wouldnt really believe that she just got and hide his number like that). While having a baby with you. While passing the guilt onto you and how you "neglected her"(classic cheaters excuse btw). While you can maybe make an excuse that she has been young, she did a horrible thing. There is no excuse for that.

On the other hand, it was long in the past. You say that she has been a great wife. So would you risk losing that, going through divorce, custody over kids and all other things that come from separation? Over something that happened 9 years ago? The time when you should have reacted properly over what she did, has kinda passed. Now, you have a whole lot to lose there. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, adviceseeker123 said:

I understand what you’re saying but I guess I see it in a different light. Her and I both have discussed events that we tried to bury or suppress from our childhood in full play by play details  

Keep in mind, you can't change the past. No one has 100% "true" recollection. You have your recollection of the events she has hers. 

Therefore dredging up childhoods, past events and so on is simply ruminating in a futile manner trying to fix something that is not in your power to change.

Focus on how you two can repair your relationship and trust and be happy again based on how you are in the present and what you can do in the future.

[dias]

4 hours ago, adviceseeker123 said:

"if there's anything else you want to tell me before the statement gets here, now is the time to come forward. As I'm not going to accept the answer of "I forgot" again, because you've used that one already and you have had plenty of time to think it over"

This is bullying. Maybe she cheated on you indeed. If you think she did it's better to end it, trying to intimidate her does not make you any better than her. 

[DancingFool]

For what it's worth, I don't think hiding the guy's number under a female name is innocent. That said, whether she actually cheated on you or just flirted with the idea, or just used the guy as a friend and a shoulder to cry on and dump her relationship issues on, nobody knows but her and the guy.

Personally, I think it's very odd that 9 years and 3 kids later you are triggered by this guy all of a sudden. You mentioned that you've known him for years and share a social circle. So you really just never ran into him socially until now?  Regardless, consider that it's also possible that your wife shared with him your relationship issues and he was being odd around you because he thinks you are an arse hole who doesn't deserve her.

Have you been stewing on this the whole 9 years and are now exploding like a pent up volcano or are you looking for an exit and this is convenient? You seemed to be very happy to turn a blind eye back then, but now you've launched a forensic investigation while claiming your marriage is great. Your behavior is not adding up. Adding on to the fact that you've already decided that whatever you find in those phone records, you will hold against your wife no matter what.

Are you sure you want this marriage?

[Lambert]

4 hours ago, adviceseeker123 said:

and I'm not leaving her. But in order to restore our marriage and trust... I need to feel like I'm being told the truth and I keep going back and forth on whether or not to believe her...

Its started taking a toll on our marriage now as its the toxic thoughts I'm having and she keeps telling me, "I've told you everything from that night, and nothing more happened, what don't you understand?" She's even made comments that "the constant going back and forth will kill our marriage off before the "not coming clean", so I'd rather tell you if more happened so we can move on, and save our marriage before its too late, but nothing more happened"

What's the woman's perspective on this?

ok so here's the thing,  you've already decided you're not leaving.  And I don't think you should.  

My advice is to pick a side and go all the way with it.  Either leave her or forgive her with a blank check now. before the statements come. when they get there, don't open them. give them to her unopened. tell her you love her, she's a good person, a good wife and a good mother.  You're sorry this all happened but your future together is worth more than something that happened 9 years ago. 

Save your marriage. This ain't worth it dude.  CHOOSE to be happy. 

Half-way, on the fence, prove you love me bs will kill your marriage. 

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, adviceseeker123 said:

 6 weeks ago, ... So when I got home I asked my wife what really happened that night...She got mad and said "not this again" and walked off... Later that night, I pressed again and she said "There was a group of us outside and we were just talking, and everyone had went inside, and we kissed".

Is there someone else you just met like a new woman at work? It's bizarre that you're doing all this injustice collecting almost a decade later.

[adviceseeker123]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is there someone else you just met like a new woman at work? It's bizarre that you're doing all this injustice collecting almost a decade later.

No, there is no one else. I’ve never put myself in a situation where I could nor would I want to. The incident took place 9 years ago but she just told me 6 weeks ago. 

[boltnrun]

9 minutes ago, adviceseeker123 said:

No, there is no one else. I’ve never put myself in a situation where I could nor would I want to. The incident took place 9 years ago but she just told me 6 weeks ago. 

Because you bumped into homeboy and decided he was acting "awkward" so you commenced the interrogation and investigation.

Up to that point was your wife acting shady? Ever?

[lostandhurt]

I think the title of your thread should be "My wife kissed another man before we were married"  Calling it cheating is a bit of a stretch and this is coming from a guy that was cheated on after 20 years together.

 The unknown is what is haunting you and you think if you can just get all the details you will feel better.  After I caught my wife she tried to lie her way out of it but finally came clean and told me everything with a smirk on her face. I think she was enjoying hurting me for some sick reason.

 Well I got all of my questions answered and then some but you know what? She still cheated, she still lied, my marriage was over and I was still devastated by the betrayal.  Nothing changed.

You are going down a path that will not lead you to where you want to go.

I am having a hard time understanding the timeline. She gives birth to her very first child ever at a young age and two weeks later she leaves the baby with you and goes to a house party and doesn't come home until the next day? Most new moms will barely let their newborn out of their site for the first few months but she goes out partying 2 weeks after birth? Is that correct?

Lost 

[adviceseeker123]

23 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

I think the title of your thread should be "My wife kissed another man before we were married"  Calling it cheating is a bit of a stretch and this is coming from a guy that was cheated on after 20 years together.

 The unknown is what is haunting you and you think if you can just get all the details you will feel better.  After I caught my wife she tried to lie her way out of it but finally came clean and told me everything with a smirk on her face. I think she was enjoying hurting me for some sick reason.

 Well I got all of my questions answered and then some but you know what? She still cheated, she still lied, my marriage was over and I was still devastated by the betrayal.  Nothing changed.

You are going down a path that will not lead you to where you want to go.

I am having a hard time understanding the timeline. She gives birth to her very first child ever at a young age and two weeks later she leaves the baby with you and goes to a house party and doesn't come home until the next day? Most new moms will barely let their newborn out of their site for the first few months but she goes out partying 2 weeks after birth? Is that correct?

Lost 

No, our child was 2 when it happened. I must have mistyped or not been clear, I apologize. We were dating, she got pregnant, birthed our child, 1 year later we got engaged.  1 year after being engaged she kissed this guy, 2 years after that we got married. We have been married for 7 years now. I just found out 6 weeks ago about her kissing the guy. 

[Batya33]

I think at her young age despite feeling passion for you the having a child so soon after meeting (and an unplanned child) plus her decision to get drunk and choose the consequences -whatever that may be when she gets drunk  -were choices triggered by the insta-relationship and the rocky relationship.  I'd cut it a lot of slack for the sake of your marriage and family.

[lostandhurt]

Thanks for clarifying that.

Trust is everything so I get where you are coming from but getting every little detail out of her from so long ago is not her being trust worthy, it is you punishing her. Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not you continuing to bring this up is punishment. 

For her it happened a long time ago, for you it just happened so I get it.

Be honest with yourself first and foremost BEFORE you ever speak to her again about that night.  You need to know why you need to know all the details.

I have found saying you trust someone but then treating as if you do not shows the true feelings.

Your actions clearly are saying "I think you are lying to me and withholding information"  If you want to call her a liar then do it so she knows where you stand otherwise back up your words with actions that show her you trust her and the matter although hurtful is best left in the past.

Lost

[boltnrun]

I agree, @lostandhurt

That whole "trust but verify"  thing makes no sense to me. If you need to verify you don't trust. And if you trust you don't need to verify.

That's not to say ignore red flags or disregard if someone you're close to starts acting differently. But from what you wrote, you just felt that man was acting "awkward" and that's why you questioned your wife and started this in depth investigation.

And as Lost said, think about your goal here. Is it to save your marriage or to punish your wife?